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Boy CNN tried to make the Atlanta shootings all about race


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29 minutes ago, squistion said:

Yes there are.  :(

 This article is more than 10 months old

Anti-Asian hate crimes up 21% in UK during coronavirus crisis.   It is everywhere.

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27 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

 This article is more than 10 months old

Anti-Asian hate crimes up 21% in UK during coronavirus crisis.   It is everywhere.

But it’s Trumps fault, especially when you see hate crime increase in cities like San Fran, NYC and commited disproportionately by black population (you know, the biggest group of Trump supporters who do what he says).

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4 minutes ago, djmich said:

But it’s Trumps fault, especially when you see hate crime increase in cities like San Fran, NYC and commited disproportionately by black population (you know, the biggest group of Trump supporters who do what he says).

Just curious where you saw that.   

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50 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

CNN, talk to you video team. If you want to push the White Supremacy angle, you my want to edit your videos a bit differently

Pay attention to the perpetrators shown.

To be honest, this shows just a very very small fraction of targeted attacks on Asians, and I buy that there is a rise in crime directed at that community. But I think saying its only whites and the "White Supremacy" thing is really out of touch. 

@KarmaPolice see video above

Not saying this is representative of ALL Asian hate crimes, but if we are talking proportions, seems whites are not ALL at fault 

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15 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

I’ve seen this take by far lefters on another forum also.  

There have been some Black on Asian crimes in SF that don`t get talked about much due to the fact is makes the BLM movement uncomfortable due to their worry about profiling blacks in crimes in Asians.  Also the worry that this will push Asians into the  more conservative "law and order" midset in the future.

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30 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

I’ve seen this take by far lefters on another forum also.  

Again, just curious where it's coming from.  I linked something earlier about general hate crime stats, but was wondering if there was something different being seen in the last year or so.  

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1 minute ago, glvsav37 said:

then why is "white Supremacy" the headline du jour?

I think we all agree that race generates clicks and some outlets are more worried about that than news.   There are white supremacists in the country, and it's an issue, but that also doesn't mean we should go hyperbolic the other way and claim that only whites are the issue.   Not sure what you want me to say here.  

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10 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I think we all agree that race generates clicks and some outlets are more worried about that than news.   There are white supremacists in the country, and it's an issue, but that also doesn't mean we should go hyperbolic the other way and claim that only whites are the issue.   Not sure what you want me to say here.  

But they ARE reporting that whites are the issue.  2 days ago every headline and or opening paragraph on the story had the words "white supremacy" in it. I'd love to see a breakdown of incidents by race...but they wont publish that b/c I'm sure the numbers dont sway in the way they want it to. 

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7 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

But they ARE reporting that whites are the issue.  2 days ago every headline and or opening paragraph on the story had the words "white supremacy" in it. I'd love to see a breakdown of incidents by race...but they wont publish that b/c I'm sure the numbers dont sway in the way they want it to. 

are they reporting that ALL whites are an issue, or that white supremacy is an issue? 

Careful to say "every headline".  thats completely untrue.  when I was on Reuters and BBC, that wasn't the headlines associated with the shooting.   yes, there were other articles about anti-asian crimes, but don't remember seeing "white supremacy".   

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

are they reporting that ALL whites are an issue, or that white supremacy is an issue? 

Careful to say "every headline".  thats completely untrue.  when I was on Reuters and BBC, that wasn't the headlines associated with the shooting.   yes, there were other articles about anti-asian crimes, but don't remember seeing "white supremacy".   

Ohhhhhh you totally got him! It isnt every headline!!!

Jesus christ. You know what he meant. 

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"every headline is about white supremacy "

"they ARE reporting that whites are the issue" 

 

I guess sorry for not getting what he really meant by these posts?   Seems like more conservatives frequent CNN than liberals around here.  it's almost like you purposely go to a site where you know might reinforce what you are looking for.   its odd to complain that race and whites are the only thing being focused and then go to and click on places that is likely the case.  

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

"every headline is about white supremacy "

"they ARE reporting that whites are the issue" 

 

I guess sorry for not getting what he really meant by these posts?   Seems like more conservatives frequent CNN than liberals around here.  it's almost like you purposely go to a site where you know might reinforce what you are looking for.   its odd to complain that race and whites are the only thing being focused and then go to and click on places that is likely the case.  

It’s not just CNN its all of them. And it’s not really that unusual. There has been a huge shortage of tv shows and movies since COVID.  CNN is basically a really bad reality tv show at this point. I can see people tuning in for a good laugh. 

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16 hours ago, Chaz McNulty said:

I also found it weird that people are cheering so loudly that CNN and other outlets were mistaken.  Less than 6% of the US population is Asian American.  Over 75% of the women killed in this spree were Asian.  It had the appearance of a hate crime, but media all over the world were wrong in this assumption.

Is something being viewed as a hate crime or not a hate crime a Republican vs. Democrat thing?

 

Sadly it seems to be now. The Democrats want to make everything about race and jump to immediate conclusions to rile up their base while Republicans want to downplay racism and not acknowledge that our racist past highly contributes to the inequalities we see today.

Edited by Bucsfan5493
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20 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Is this a SC alias or something?  

Definition of hate crime

: any of various crimes (such as assault or defacement of property) when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (such as one based on color, creed, gender, or sexual orientation)

 

The difference is intent.   You could shoot a white guy during a robbery or you could post on FB about your hatred of white people and then go shoot a white guy.   Yes, in both cases somebody of a race died, but only one case is a race/hate crime.  

You ask a lot about aliases.   Who are you.   Tell us now.

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4 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Thanks.  

# One is a chart of violent crime, which is not the same as hate crime though, right?  So that chart would include a wider definition of crimes if I am understanding that correctly.  

 

Correct.  And the data for 2020 by race for total crime or hate crime is harder to come by.  I saw hate crime stats by race somewhere and it supports the same narrative but not sure if it was 2020 or 2019.

For me the point about the data is that it’s pretty hard to conclude white people commit more hate crimes (or any crimes) than anyone else, in fact the opposite.  And the supposed increase in hate crimes seems to be global so the attribution to Trump is laughable.  I say supposed because I’m skeptical about the changes in tracking and victim comfort with identifying such crimes not materially changed reported outcomes.  There were probably less self identified gay people ten years ago too.

Hate sucks, throw the book at violators, but I prefer we at least attempt to talk about it honestly.  With perspective.  With data and an understanding of the inherent meaning and proportional relevance of data.

According to FBI there were 7,300 incidents in 2019.  Of which 40% people felt intimidated (non violent).  328M people.  That’s .00002 of the population.  That’s 7,300 bad incidents, should be punished.  Oh, I’m sure there’s 10x more intimidation not reported, so make it .0002

Is this what is creating the national environment of distrust of each other (and really of white people based on the MSM narrative, which again at best is ignorant and worst intentionally misleading).  

 

 

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17 minutes ago, djmich said:

Correct.  And the data for 2020 by race for total crime or hate crime is harder to come by.  I saw hate crime stats by race somewhere and it supports the same narrative but not sure if it was 2020 or 2019.

For me the point about the data is that it’s pretty hard to conclude white people commit more hate crimes (or any crimes) than anyone else, in fact the opposite.  And the supposed increase in hate crimes seems to be global so the attribution to Trump is laughable.  I say supposed because I’m skeptical about the changes in tracking and victim comfort with identifying such crimes not materially changed reported outcomes.  There were probably less self identified gay people ten years ago too.

Hate sucks, throw the book at violators, but I prefer we at least attempt to talk about it honestly.  With perspective.  With data and an understanding of the inherent meaning and proportional relevance of data.

According to FBI there were 7,300 incidents in 2019.  Of which 40% people felt intimidated (non violent).  328M people.  That’s .00002 of the population.  That’s 7,300 bad incidents, should be punished.  Oh, I’m sure there’s 10x more intimidation not reported, so make it .0002

Is this what is creating the national environment of distrust of each other (and really of white people based on the MSM narrative, which again at best is ignorant and worst intentionally misleading).  

 

 

I appreciate the back and and forth.   

LINK   is what I was referring to that I posted before about general hate crimes.   On there, whites committed the highest %.  

 

Race

In 2019, race was reported for 6,406 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

52.5 percent were White.

23.9 percent were Black or African American.

6.6 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (group of multiple races).

1.1 percent were American Indian or Alaska Native.

0.9 percent (58 offenders) were Asian.

0.3 percent (22 offenders) were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander.

14.6 percent were unknown.

 

I get what you are saying with the rest, and we do have to keep perspective on the overall cases and rates this happens.  This is a small % of people doing this.   However, if you scroll through the data of that FBI site, the percentage of white people committing hate crimes has creeped almost 10% in the last 5 or so years.    I am just pointing out that the chart you posted listed millions of cases, which includes all kinds of violent crimes, not the hate crimes that we were discussing.   

Just being clear that I am not blaming Trump and I am not excusing some media outlets for jumping right to race right away before we find out details.  

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56 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I appreciate the back and and forth.   

LINK   is what I was referring to that I posted before about general hate crimes.   On there, whites committed the highest %.  

 

Race

In 2019, race was reported for 6,406 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

52.5 percent were White.

23.9 percent were Black or African American.

6.6 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (group of multiple races).

1.1 percent were American Indian or Alaska Native.

0.9 percent (58 offenders) were Asian.

0.3 percent (22 offenders) were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander.

14.6 percent were unknown.

 

I get what you are saying with the rest, and we do have to keep perspective on the overall cases and rates this happens.  This is a small % of people doing this.   However, if you scroll through the data of that FBI site, the percentage of white people committing hate crimes has creeped almost 10% in the last 5 or so years.    I am just pointing out that the chart you posted listed millions of cases, which includes all kinds of violent crimes, not the hate crimes that we were discussing.   

Just being clear that I am not blaming Trump and I am not excusing some media outlets for jumping right to race right away before we find out details.  

👍👍  For sure, appreciate the dialogue.

Think whites make up 75% of US, so 52% would at face value be less proportionate share of hate crimes.

The increase in hate crimes YoY...really hard to dimension as there are so many changing variables which I hit on earlier (not to mention the impact of covid on mental health)

All that to say, we have no room for hate crimes in this country, we should call them out and prosecute and I think looking at the data and acknowledging an increase, with proper perspective, is good...but let’s not foment more hate in the process of doing this by creating false narratives.

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58 minutes ago, djmich said:

👍👍  For sure, appreciate the dialogue.

Think whites make up 75% of US, so 52% would at face value be less proportionate share of hate crimes.

The increase in hate crimes YoY...really hard to dimension as there are so many changing variables which I hit on earlier (not to mention the impact of covid on mental health)

All that to say, we have no room for hate crimes in this country, we should call them out and prosecute and I think looking at the data and acknowledging an increase, with proper perspective, is good...but let’s not foment more hate in the process of doing this by creating false narratives.

Fair point - I get what you are saying.   Not sure how that 15% of "unknown" factors in, but still I see what you were saying about the slightly disproportionate %s.  

 

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9 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

CBS news on right now. Last three stories were about rising anti asian hate, jeep cherokee needing to change its name, and how there are black people that want the vaccine and cant get it because it isnt being fairly distributed. 

How were they saying was this happening - the vaccines aren't getting distributed in black areas?

I honestly don't know how people watch news programs.  Every time I try I regret it, as it's usually fluff or too much on the opinion side.  

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

How were they saying was this happening - the vaccines aren't getting distributed in black areas?

I honestly don't know how people watch news programs.  Every time I try I regret it, as it's usually fluff or too much on the opinion side.  

Honestly I walked away when the woman they were interviewing said this was a battle for the soul of our country.

We only had it on because the games are on multiple TVs around my house and this is the break for news part of the day and we just never went and turned the tv off. 

I said to my wife apparently this is the identity politics break in between games. 

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2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Honestly I walked away when the woman they were interviewing said this was a battle for the soul of our country.

We only had it on because the games are on multiple TVs around my house and this is the break for news part of the day and we just never went and turned the tv off. 

I said to my wife apparently this is the identity politics break in between games. 

What was - the vaccine and it's distribution? 

Maybe I am missing some entertainment with the nightly news... 

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I’m blown away people still bother watching the national news. I’ve only been into politics since Trump got into office and quickly found out they all have their slants, mostly left leaning when it comes to the major stations. Just isn’t worth watching unless you’re okay with the clear bias and can take everything said on there with a grain of salt knowing which side it’s coming from.

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33 minutes ago, tonydead said:

I was pleasantly surprised with ABC Evening News tonight. Hadn't seen it for quite some time. They reported on Cuomo and the border in the first segment. That never happens with the others, if at all. 

I know you won't want to hit the link, but the border stuff is all over CNN.  Cuomo was up there but has slipped down and there's now only one article on him.

 

https://www.cnn.com/

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20 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

are they reporting that ALL whites are an issue, or that white supremacy is an issue? 

Careful to say "every headline".  thats completely untrue.  when I was on Reuters and BBC, that wasn't the headlines associated with the shooting.   yes, there were other articles about anti-asian crimes, but don't remember seeing "white supremacy".   

I'll 🤙 the dialog too...its all good stuff.

To expand what I meant on the "white supremacy" angle is that I feel that the term has moved beyond the "guys in white hoods" and focused on the average everyday white person as a whole. As an ethnic group over the last few years we have been lumped into this "oppressor" category that is not allowed to comment on certain topics, we "need to be educated" and are blamed for every minority shortcoming.  Any argument about race is shut down with the "white privilege" card and the "you need to do better" to which it is impossible to defend when this is their mindset. 

Even if this white guy here is an average middle aged family man who has no hiring, firing or otherwise direct effect on bring up or holding down a certain minority segment. But because of my race, it's always my fault_or at least portrayed that way. 

Writing headlines that simply say "white supremacy is the problem"—esp on a story where the suspect (lets even say) had mixed reasons for the murders—is doing nothing but further the divide between minorities who want to look at that and use it as proof. Very few people read the whole article and even then, most of the parts that said he did it for sex addiction reason were buried toward the bottom 1/3rd of it. 

I think many people don't realize the effects of how headlines are worded. I worked in media (magazines), advertising and PR my whole career. Headlines are crafted and worked to provoke action and emotion. 

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4 hours ago, glvsav37 said:

I'll 🤙 the dialog too...its all good stuff.

To expand what I meant on the "white supremacy" angle is that I feel that the term has moved beyond the "guys in white hoods" and focused on the average everyday white person as a whole. As an ethnic group over the last few years we have been lumped into this "oppressor" category that is not allowed to comment on certain topics, we "need to be educated" and are blamed for every minority shortcoming.  Any argument about race is shut down with the "white privilege" card and the "you need to do better" to which it is impossible to defend when this is their mindset. 

Even if this white guy here is an average middle aged family man who has no hiring, firing or otherwise direct effect on bring up or holding down a certain minority segment. But because of my race, it's always my fault_or at least portrayed that way. 

Writing headlines that simply say "white supremacy is the problem"—esp on a story where the suspect (lets even say) had mixed reasons for the murders—is doing nothing but further the divide between minorities who want to look at that and use it as proof. Very few people read the whole article and even then, most of the parts that said he did it for sex addiction reason were buried toward the bottom 1/3rd of it. 

I think many people don't realize the effects of how headlines are worded. I worked in media (magazines), advertising and PR my whole career. Headlines are crafted and worked to provoke action and emotion. 

And to be completely honest, I just don't give a rat's behind anymore.  Being demonized by the media and being used as an excuse for everything wrong in minority people's lives is absurd on it's face.  I had nothing to do with slavery, Jim Crowe or the KKK yet it's my fault?  I can't speak out on anything? You want my money and my things but yet I get no say?

At this point, I feel the goverment has made amends with quotas, minority grants, special college admission, legislsation, etc...  If you can't take advantage of that then I can't help you anymore.  But I'm done caring. 

This may seem harsh, but this is what happens when you demonize whitey and basically people who had ZERO to do with the racist Democrats of the past.  You actually crate more divisiveness.  Take a look at S.Africa to see how this is going to go.

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13 hours ago, glvsav37 said:

I'll 🤙 the dialog too...its all good stuff.

To expand what I meant on the "white supremacy" angle is that I feel that the term has moved beyond the "guys in white hoods" and focused on the average everyday white person as a whole. As an ethnic group over the last few years we have been lumped into this "oppressor" category that is not allowed to comment on certain topics, we "need to be educated" and are blamed for every minority shortcoming.  Any argument about race is shut down with the "white privilege" card and the "you need to do better" to which it is impossible to defend when this is their mindset. 

Even if this white guy here is an average middle aged family man who has no hiring, firing or otherwise direct effect on bring up or holding down a certain minority segment. But because of my race, it's always my fault_or at least portrayed that way. 

Writing headlines that simply say "white supremacy is the problem"—esp on a story where the suspect (lets even say) had mixed reasons for the murders—is doing nothing but further the divide between minorities who want to look at that and use it as proof. Very few people read the whole article and even then, most of the parts that said he did it for sex addiction reason were buried toward the bottom 1/3rd of it. 

I think many people don't realize the effects of how headlines are worded. I worked in media (magazines), advertising and PR my whole career. Headlines are crafted and worked to provoke action and emotion. 

Another great post - thanks for the back forth.  

Full disclosure after thinking about this - I am probably really isolated from a bit of this, and that is adding to my viewpoint on the topic.  What I mean by that is most of my daily news comes from 3-4 sites that I go to.  Like I posted above, the headlines I read the day of the shooting weren't like that.  Besides this place, I have damn near 0 social media presence, so I don't have a FB or Twitter feed being bombarded with this BS.   Other than that I listen to a handful of podcasts for politics and news to try to get more of a back and forth discussion.  

So that said, IMO so much of the problem is the amplification of this type of message.   I am not denying that there are people like this and think the way you post in that first paragraph.   My opinion is that this is still a small, albeit loud, minority of people that believe that way.  No surprise, but most of my friend group is liberal, and I know 0 people that would tell you it's your fault or that you need to feel guilty.    Now, I am sure that some would talk about systemic racism and the like, but IMO that is not the same as telling you it's your fault and you should feel guilty.   My main annoyance is always (and it happens a bit around here) when it's "this is what the left think" or "this is how libs feel".   That helps nothing and it makes me feel like nobody is bothering to listen to the people in this community, as I am confident despite being a left leaning board nobody here is saying those things either.  

I don't know what the solution is.   I know I beat the drum about trying to not click those headlines, trying to wean off social media, and trying our best to have dialogue with others.   Specifically with a site like CNN, they are getting the best of both worlds.  It's a left leaning site, so there is already traffic that way, but now we are getting a ton of conservatives going there to say "aha - look at these headlines from the left!!"   Then is gets posted on SM, etc, etc..    We all know what's going on, but we participate in it anyway.  We have talked about how they are losing ratings white the POTUS change.    I just don't know how we take away the power from the loud extreme minority from both sides.  

 

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9 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Besides this place, I have damn near 0 social media presence, so I don't have a FB or Twitter feed being bombarded with this BS.   Other than that I listen to a handful of podcasts for politics and news to try to get more of a back and forth discussion.  

I was wondering why you seemed like such a well adjusted individual.

Seriously though, I don't have FB.  I do Twitter, the upside is that there are a ton of really smart people that use twitter as their platform to share their thinking.  The downside, is that there are 10x more mentally and socially stunted individuals whose primary outlet seems to be Twitter sharing their opinions and frustrations.  They are often the basis of the Twitter CC mob.

Good thing is you can follow the 10% you find and largely dodge the 90% crap.  Largely being the key word...its there.  Only other risk is creating too much of a echo chamber in your 10%...but you drive that.

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On 3/18/2021 at 10:02 AM, Maurile Tremblay said:

My go-to source for soberly aggregating info about events being excitedly reported on in the news is Wikipedia. It comes through again here. This summary seems rather sane:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Atlanta_spa_shootings#Motive

Same section, updated:

According to the police, Long described his actions as being the result of a sex addiction that conflicted with his religious beliefs. The New York Times reported that Long "seemed to have a fixation on sexual temptation, one that can lead to despair among people who believe they are failing to follow the ideal of refraining from sex and even lust outside heterosexual marriage."

Police records show two of the massage parlors had been the site of 10 prostitution arrests; the latest of these arrests took place in 2013. All three spas, two of which Long had been a patron, were listed on an erotic review site, where users could review spas that provide sexual services.

Long claims to have thought about killing himself but instead decided to kill others to "help" those dealing with sex addiction. According to the Cherokee County sheriff, Long wanted to "eliminate the temptation" by targeting spas.

The American Psychological Association does not have sex addiction as a diagnosis in the DSM-5, following its removal in 2012. Psychologist David J. Ley and neuroscientist Nicole Prause noted significant differences between sex addiction and other types of addiction. According to Ley, rehabilitation treatments focusing on the suppression of sexual thoughts such as the type experienced by Long are usually counterproductive. Psychotherapist Robert Weiss, who diagnoses people with sexual addiction, expressed doubt in the diagnosis for Long because sex addicts are typically nonviolent.

Some advocates and scholars have speculated that the shootings may have an intersectional motive due to overlapping stigmas about race, gender, and sex work. Some noted the ethnicity of six of the victims, who were Asian women, amidst an increase in anti-Asian hate crimes in the United States during the COVID-19 pandemic, or characterized the shooting as a hate crime. Long said his actions were not racially motivated. Multiple experts have stated that race cannot be ruled out as a motive because Asian women are fetishized in American society.

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35 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Multiple experts have stated that race cannot be ruled out as a motive because Asian women are fetishized in American society.

Even this is to me just poor execution of whatever point is trying to be made.

Hot chicks are fetishized.  Red hair.  Asian.  Russian.  etc etc....not that I know anything about this stuff.  So race may have been a factor in why he was having sex with them.  Or maybe not and these places just happen to be predominantly staffed with Asians.  Maybe he's not picky.  Maybe he loves all races.

Point is, when we say "race" is a motive are we not implying there is some sort of racial hate?  What's the point of the sentence and on what basis are the experts making this statement.  

Last bone to pick.  Who the F are these experts.  What is there expertise.  I love how experts are thrown out, is this an expert on what's in the mind of the killer.

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4 minutes ago, djmich said:

Even this is to me just poor execution of whatever point is trying to be made.

Hot chicks are fetishized.  Red hair.  Asian.  Russian.  etc etc....not that I know anything about this stuff.  So race may have been a factor in why he was having sex with them.  Or maybe not.

Point is, when we say "race" is a motive are we not implying there is some sort of racial hate?  What's the point of the sentence and on what basis are the experts making this statement.  

Last bone to pick.  Who the F are these experts.  What is there expertise.  I love how experts are thrown out, is this an expert on what's in the mind of the killer.

All the sources are footnoted.  The Independent and Vox.  :mellow:  

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42 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Same section, updated:

According to the police, Long described his actions as being the result of a sex addiction that conflicted with his religious beliefs. The New York Times reported that Long "seemed to have a fixation on sexual temptation, one that can lead to despair among people who believe they are failing to follow the ideal of refraining from sex and even lust outside heterosexual marriage."

Police records show two of the massage parlors had been the site of 10 prostitution arrests; the latest of these arrests took place in 2013. All three spas, two of which Long had been a patron, were listed on an erotic review site, where users could review spas that provide sexual services.

Long claims to have thought about killing himself but instead decided to kill others to "help" those dealing with sex addiction. According to the Cherokee County sheriff, Long wanted to "eliminate the temptation" by targeting spas.

The American Psychological Association does not have sex addiction as a diagnosis in the DSM-5, following its removal in 2012. Psychologist David J. Ley and neuroscientist Nicole Prause noted significant differences between sex addiction and other types of addiction. According to Ley, rehabilitation treatments focusing on the suppression of sexual thoughts such as the type experienced by Long are usually counterproductive. Psychotherapist Robert Weiss, who diagnoses people with sexual addiction, expressed doubt in the diagnosis for Long because sex addicts are typically nonviolent.

Some advocates and scholars have speculated that the shootings may have an intersectional motive due to overlapping stigmas about race, gender, and sex work. Some noted the ethnicity of six of the victims, who were Asian women, amidst an increase in anti-Asian hate crimes in the United States during the COVID-19 pandemic, or characterized the shooting as a hate crime. Long said his actions were not racially motivated. Multiple experts have stated that race cannot be ruled out as a motive because Asian women are fetishized in American society.

Wonder why these Spas are not talked about more?  There have to be hundreds if  of these Spas.  Everytime I travel I see signs on the highways Everyone knows what these spas are for and very little are actual massage parlors.   These so called "Spas" are a hotbed for human trafficking, they exploit, use and abuse Asian women of all ages.    Yet they seem to dodge the bullet in these conversations.   

Will this prompt a shutdown of these type of places that put Asian women in jeopardy and ruin many of their lives forever?  Or does nobody really care?  I think the latter as many of the women are undocumented and seen as disposable by the owners of these Spas.  As nobody will ever miss them.

Edited by Summer Wheat
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8 minutes ago, djmich said:

Even this is to me just poor execution of whatever point is trying to be made.

Hot chicks are fetishized.  Red hair.  Asian.  Russian.  etc etc....not that I know anything about this stuff.  So race may have been a factor in why he was having sex with them.  Or maybe not and these places just happen to be predominantly staffed with Asians.  Maybe he's not picky.  Maybe he loves all races.

Point is, when we say "race" is a motive are we not implying there is some sort of racial hate?  What's the point of the sentence and on what basis are the experts making this statement.  

Last bone to pick.  Who the F are these experts.  What is there expertise.  I love how experts are thrown out, is this an expert on what's in the mind of the killer.

The point is they can not concede a single point.  Even when it is fairly clear the motivations was almost entirely about his sexual addition, they can't let go of the race angle and have to include some unnamed 'expert' (the writer's liberal opinion).  

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The only expert I could find in the Vox article was Patricia Park who is a writer for B*Media.  

The article goes out of it's was to distort any meaningful data using the fact that Asians make up only 4% of Atlanta's population. I wish I knew the percentage of Asians that make up the workers in the Asian Spa sex industry.

Edited by tonydead
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1 minute ago, Summer Wheat said:

Wonder why these Spas are not talked about more?  There have to be hundreds if  of these Spas.  Everytime I travel I see signs on the highways Everyone knows what these spas are for and very little are actual massage parlors.   These so called "Spas" are a hotbed for human trafficking, they exploit, use and abuse Asian women of all ages.    Yet they seem to dodge the bullet in these conversations.   

Will this prompt a shutdown of these type of places that put Asian women in jeopardy and ruin many of thier lives forever?  Or does nobody really care?  I think the latter as many of the women are undocumented and seen as disposable by the owners of these Spas.  As nobody will ever miss them.

I think the human trafficking angle is probably more true in other countries.  I believe these victims were in their 40's and 50's and probably been in the business for quite a few years and doing it voluntarily.  It is possible human trafficking played a role initially, but I think most in this country get into it because it is decent money for those who do not speak English well.  There is a human trafficking problem here, but it is small compared to what goes on in other places.  I think the real human trafficking is much more underground than these massage parlors.

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9 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

I think the human trafficking angle is probably more true in other countries.  I believe these victims were in their 40's and 50's and probably been in the business for quite a few years and doing it voluntarily.  It is possible human trafficking played a role initially, but I think most in this country get into it because it is decent money for those who do not speak English well.  There is a human trafficking problem here, but it is small compared to what goes on in other places.  I think the real human trafficking is much more underground than these massage parlors.

I don't know how it compares to other places, but trafficking and Asian massage parlors go hand in hand and are a big problem in this country.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article226942349.html

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article230945643.html

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19 minutes ago, John123 said:

I don't know how it compares to other places, but trafficking and Asian massage parlors go hand in hand and are a big problem in this country.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article226942349.html

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article230945643.html

But yet months of investigation and secret recordings, did not establish human trafficking.  It is a problem, I just don't see it at these parlors who do get routinely busted.  The real criminal element stays much further off the radar than these businesses because the penalties are very steep. People disagree, but I from the all these busts and stings it should be easy to find evidence of human trafficking and it is pretty rare.  

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6 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

But yet months of investigation and secret recordings, did not establish human trafficking.  It is a problem, I just don't see it at these parlors who do get routinely busted.  The real criminal element stays much further off the radar than these businesses because the penalties are very steep. People disagree, but I from the all these busts and stings it should be easy to find evidence of human trafficking and it is pretty rare.  

Dude, it's just like the drug trade.  The cartel's don't get busted.  The middle level dealers do.

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