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US-China talks break into tense confrontation on camera


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I came back to this thread excited to see there was a couple pages of discussion over the exchange to open the session. Was really interested to hear folks’ takes on the nature of the exchange and wha

Not suprising.   Having been to China a number of times through work and seen some inner workings and feelings the Chinese people have always been friendly but somewhat ignorant about government doing

They were ok with Trump’s orange combover 

9 minutes ago, massraider said:

Ya know, just because someone picks a random nothing observation that has no chance of affecting anything, and it's a silly take, doesn't mean you HAVE to engage. 

Sure.  But it also doesn't mean that sometimes it's not worthy of discussion. I think for the most part some good points have been made around the "issue" from both sides.  

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20 minutes ago, massraider said:

Has China pushed back from the negotiations because of anyone's appearance, or is this just the random musings of one troll? 

 

Nah, they are probably still laughing at us.  They can't get too mad, we owe them Billions.

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10 minutes ago, FairWarning said:
21 minutes ago, timschochet said:

To what purpose? 

https://news.yahoo.com/china-refuses-allow-reps-investigate-120807737.html

Not to side track this thread again but there was a fantastic Rogan podcast with Jamie Metzl just a few days ago on this exact topic.  I highly recommend.  China was most certainly a bad actor around this whole thing.

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51 minutes ago, The Dude said:

This is not an insult but are you sure about what you are saying?  You are effectively saying don’t judge a person on contribution and ability - judge them on looks.  You would rather they give their hard work to somebody else to present that fits an image you find acceptable.

What if you went somewhere that face was an issue?  Would a black have to give their work to a white person to present?

this isn’t a gotcha moment

I agree with this 100%.  First impressions matter. Sucks but they do.  And if you don't see that, please stay our of my negotiations.  Thanks!

And, again, stop with the "what ifs" cause it doesn't exist.   Gee..what if people didnt care about being naked or not in a meeting, would we judge them then?  

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52 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

It looks unprofessional and sorry people are judged by looks.  Our country is judged on these looks.  Conveying a professional image is not too much to ask at that level. Standards of appearance should have been set long before the meeting, so I would not have found myself in that position.   

Not that I have to state it but completely disagree that a choice in hair color makes somebody look unprofessional.

And if my boss sent out a memo stating not to show up with blue hair, I wouldn’t have a good opinion of him.  Would probably cost him good workers.

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56 minutes ago, timschochet said:

One thing is clear (at least to me): blaming China for Covid, attempting to hold them responsible in any way for the misery and economic loss, serves us no good purpose. Anyone who studies history knows that when you attempt to blame a country for bad results, even when it’s justified, it only creates resentment and a worse situation later on. We need to move on. 

I don’t think Blinken mentioned it in his opening statements, at least not that I recall hearing. 

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

You’re missing my point. I’m not asking whether China is to blame or not. I’m asking to what purpose should we pursue it? What do we gain by criticizing them on the world stage? 

No one is gaining a thing when they are the probable source and not cooperating with the other countries who are not name calling.  

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5 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Not that I have to state it but completely disagree that a choice in hair color makes somebody look unprofessional.

And if my boss sent out a memo stating not to show up with blue hair, I wouldn’t have a good opinion of him.  Would probably cost him good workers.

It depends on the company and industry.  

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13 minutes ago, timschochet said:

You’re missing my point. I’m not asking whether China is to blame or not. I’m asking to what purpose should we pursue it? What do we gain by criticizing them on the world stage? 

Pursuing it is vastly important, in my opinion, to being able to get access to figure out how the hell COVID started, how it spread, and how we should all react given the circumstances possibly of happening again.  This is a perfect example of how the cover up is as bad or worse than the crime.  

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10 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Pursuing it is vastly important, in my opinion, to being able to get access to figure out how the hell COVID started, how it spread, and how we should all react given the circumstances possibly of happening again.  This is a perfect example of how the cover up is as bad or worse than the crime.  

Not to mention some basic respect from China.   Your not going to get their cooperation on anything if you don't call them on actions like this.

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1 hour ago, knowledge dropper said:

It looks unprofessional and sorry people are judged by looks.  Our country is judged on these looks.  Conveying a professional image is not too much to ask at that level. Standards of appearance should have been set long before the meeting, so I would not have found myself in that position.   

I still can’t tell if you are serious. This woman was a translator, right? She looked fine, was dressed well. Looked put together.

A 75 year old man spray tanning to the point they are an odd color wouldn’t look unusual to you?

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I thought China's response sounded petty.  I thought Blinken's reply to that was OK, but he certainly could have pushed it further.  China doesn't really have any legs to stand on regarding civil rights, human rights, etc.  The way they treat dissent in Hong Kong, and the Uighurs and Tibetans?  C'mon with the throwing stones.  

I have been to China on a few occasions.  My colleagues there don't talk politics, except to maybe ask questions about the US or make fun of US politicians.  In some ways their culture functions better because there is no room for political discourse.  It means there are no "sides" in most cases since no one can speak their mind.  People aren't distracted by red team / blue team nonsense.

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3 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

Seriously?  ChiNA doesn’t share the PC mentality.  Apparently, Biden wasn’t happy either.  

Wait, China wasn’t impressed with her Wokeness? Shocking. 

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4 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

I thought China's response sounded petty.  I thought Blinken's reply to that was OK, but he certainly could have pushed it further.  China doesn't really have any legs to stand on regarding civil rights, human rights, etc.  The way they treat dissent in Hong Kong, and the Uighurs and Tibetans?  C'mon with the throwing stones.  

I have been to China on a few occasions.  My colleagues there don't talk politics, except to maybe ask questions about the US or make fun of US politicians.  In some ways their culture functions better because there is no room for political discourse.  It means there are no "sides" in most cases since no one can speak their mind.  People aren't distracted by red team / blue team nonsense.

They are probably using some facial recognition software in Myramar also.

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3 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Wait, China wasn’t impressed with her Wokeness? Shocking. 

I would think they didn’t care what the translator looked like and were more focused on the content of the meeting.

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1 hour ago, massraider said:

Has China pushed back from the negotiations because of anyone's appearance, or is this just the random musings of one troll? 

 

If you disagree with a post make your case as to why you disagree. Drop the troll insults. 

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5 minutes ago, The General said:

I would think they didn’t care what the translator looked like and were more focused on the content of the meeting.

I would think they are most focused on the fact they will be able to completely walk all over Biden and his crew. 

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1 minute ago, The General said:

I would think they didn’t care what the translator looked like and were more focused on the content of the meeting.

You have no idea whether or not they cared since you are not a Chinese diplomat. That's the only thing that matters here. 

What Americans think about purple hair in a meeting is irrelevant, nor what our appearance and decorum standards are for a meeting between two American entities. 

If the U.S. Sec of State didn't take all of the above into account in making a conscious decision to allow the person to appear as she did, then he is a buffoon.

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1 minute ago, GoBirds said:

I would think they are most focused on the fact they will be able to completely walk all over Biden and his crew. 

This whole thread is about the meeting getting contentious so we’ll see what happens. Biden has 4 years to make his case.

Glad to see you agree the hair color thing is ridiculous.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

The idea, ever since Nixon went there in 1972, was that once China was opened up to trade and capitalism then eventually their country would shake off its dictatorship. 
 

That hasn’t happened, and it’s been 50 years. Russia managed to get rid of Communism 30 years ago. But it China it’s vestiges hang on and on. What now? This is as good a thread as any to ask the question. I don’t care about Trump vs Biden, or what happened at one meeting. I care about what our long term strategy should be. Do we even have one? 

Because communism is just the mechanism.   It's really good at totalitarianism.  Top down has been china's method government  since before christ.

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The US media’s focus on SJW issues comes back to bite us.  Based the agenda of certainUS News outlets our police execute black people on an hourly basis.  Of course with that narrative being pushed we look hypocritical to China when we bring up their litany of human rights abuses.  

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5 minutes ago, Stoneworker said:

You have no idea whether or not they cared since you are not a Chinese diplomat. That's the only thing that matters here. 

What Americans think about purple hair in a meeting is irrelevant, nor what our appearance and decorum standards are for a meeting between two American entities. 

If the U.S. Sec of State didn't take all of the above into account in making a conscious decision to allow the person to appear as she did, then he is a buffoon.

Being told they are responsible for and hiding details about a world wide pandemic would probably cause larger rifts than decorum in a meeting.

As to this decorum issue a person painting himself an unusual color seems as questionable a statement as this lady’s hair. Just my opinion. 

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7 minutes ago, Stoneworker said:

You have no idea whether or not they cared since you are not a Chinese diplomat. That's the only thing that matters here

What Americans think about purple hair in a meeting is irrelevant, nor what our appearance and decorum standards are for a meeting between two American entities. 

If the U.S. Sec of State didn't take all of the above into account in making a conscious decision to allow the person to appear as she did, then he is a buffoon.

Follow this line of thinking what should we do when we meet with a country that doesn't treat women as equals or make them dress a certain way? 

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1 minute ago, KarmaPolice said:

Follow this line of thinking what should we do when we meet with a country that doesn't treat women as equals or make them dress a certain way? 

All depends on the relative power dynamic. Do you think America can just shove its value system down the throats of every country on the planet in every situation?

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34 minutes ago, The General said:

I still can’t tell if you are serious. This woman was a translator, right? She looked fine, was dressed well. Looked put together.

A 75 year old man spray tanning to the point they are an odd color wouldn’t look unusual to you?

Donald was a true alpha whereas Blinken came off as meek next to the purple haired staffer. Blinken looked weak  , definitely lacking the Trump administrations machismo 

What is Xi thinking about us now 

 

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8 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Follow this line of thinking what should we do when we meet with a country that doesn't treat women as equals or make them dress a certain way? 

Not one person has said this is a sexist thing.  My opinion would be unchanged if it was a man with purple hair. 

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2 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Not one person has said this is a sexist thing.  My opinion would be unchanged if it was a man with purple hair. 

Exactly 

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Just now, HellToupee said:

Donald was a true alpha whereas Blinken came off as meek next to the purple haired staffer. Blinken looked weak  , definitely lacking the Trump administrations machismo 

What is Xi thinking about us now 

 

He’s thinking “man this coffee is terrible...nice paintings on the walls here....oh my god the Americans have sent a purple haired woman to translate...what are these mind games...I forgot what this guy was even saying...what did I just agree to?!?” 

Biden wins again

ALPHA 4D CHESS, son.

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Granted I’m not in international diplomatic meetings like all the other FBGs in here but the guy pushing 80 who’s obsessively spray tanning is much more unusual in my business environment than the woman dying her hair.

Maybe this is a regional thing. 

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34 minutes ago, Stoneworker said:

All depends on the relative power dynamic. Do you think America can just shove its value system down the throats of every country on the planet in every situation?

Purple/grey hair is a value system?

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32 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

Not one person has said this is a sexist thing.  My opinion would be unchanged if it was a man with purple hair. 

He said the only thing that matters was how China viewed the purple hair.  If we care about that, I am just curious where the line is drawn when we talk to a country that has their women in burkas or doesn't think a woman should be there.  You know, if the only thing that matters is what they think.  

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

Follow this line of thinking what should we do when we meet with a country that doesn't treat women as equals or make them dress a certain way? 

Well we kiss the backsides of these ME countries.  

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58 minutes ago, The General said:

Granted I’m not in international diplomatic meetings like all the other FBGs in here but the guy pushing 80 who’s obsessively spray tanning is much more unusual in my business environment than the woman dying her hair.

Maybe this is a regional thing. 

China sends us Honey Pot, we send someone in purple hair.  
 

advantage China 

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7 hours ago, The General said:

I would think they didn’t care what the translator looked like and were more focused on the content of the meeting.

Wokeness?  WTF does her hair have todo with wokeness?

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7 hours ago, FBG Moderator said:

If you disagree with a post make your case as to why you disagree. Drop the troll insults. 

I believe he was referring to Posobiec as the troll.  

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8 hours ago, The General said:

I still can’t tell if you are serious. This woman was a translator, right? She looked fine, was dressed well. Looked put together.

A 75 year old man spray tanning to the point they are an odd color wouldn’t look unusual to you?

Add to that the mother of all comb-overs.  To the point he doesn't like to go out on particularly windy days.

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8 hours ago, timschochet said:

You’re missing my point. I’m not asking whether China is to blame or not. I’m asking to what purpose should we pursue it? What do we gain by criticizing them on the world stage? 

 

When the other person is the bully, the best move is to just start punching them in the face.

When you are the bully, the best move is to just start punching them in the face.

War with China is inevitable. That means it's going to cost America no matter what. The cost in lives, wealth and suffering is going to be less if we start punching now.

This is like going to the dentist. That rotting tooth needs to go. You can wait and it will be more pain, more time, more money, more grief and bigger risks. Or you can simply pay in blood right now.

There is quite a bit of criticism of Darryl Gates and, by extension, LAPD SWAT, however he was one of the first in law enforcement to embrace the idea that when you are under fire, you charge your threat. You aggressively apply "violence of action" and no longer become a target, you become the instigator.

Tim, nothing personal, but you will disagree because you are soft. There is nothing wrong with being soft. People are wired differently. But this nation can endure and survive with you being soft because you are advocated for by hardened 3000 percent beef eaters. Old school shooters with heavy trigger time like me. It doesn't make me or anyone else better than you, it's just we have a fundamental understanding that sometimes there is no negotiation. Sometimes there is no chance for peace. You cannot negotiate with China because they aren't here to negotiate. They want to be dominant. Which would work except guys like me already have that job filled and we aren't going to be Wally Pipp'ed like a bunch of limp wristed latte sipping manlets. I have nothing against lattes, but you can't cave in someone's skull with a fireaxe with a latte in your hands.

You'll say why a fireaxe, you've got plenty of guns already. ( Stop looking at my arms) But the truth is fireaxes are more cinematic.

Soft people aren't cinematic. That's not a crime. It's just not effective for survival, no one actually listens to them and frankly chicks don't dig it.

That soft people can exist in America is proof of how much we all have so much to be grateful for here in the United States.

It's not your fight Tim. And that's OK. Just don't get in the way of the rest of us when it's time to make things cinematic.

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16 minutes ago, GordonGekko said:

 

When the other person is the bully, the best move is to just start punching them in the face.

When you are the bully, the best move is to just start punching them in the face.

War with China is inevitable. That means it's going to cost America no matter what. The cost in lives, wealth and suffering is going to be less if we start punching now.

This is like going to the dentist. That rotting tooth needs to go. You can wait and it will be more pain, more time, more money, more grief and bigger risks. Or you can simply pay in blood right now.

There is quite a bit of criticism of Darryl Gates and, by extension, LAPD SWAT, however he was one of the first in law enforcement to embrace the idea that when you are under fire, you charge your threat. You aggressively apply "violence of action" and no longer become a target, you become the instigator.

Tim, nothing personal, but you will disagree because you are soft. There is nothing wrong with being soft. People are wired differently. But this nation can endure and survive with you being soft because you are advocated for by hardened 3000 percent beef eaters. Old school shooters with heavy trigger time like me. It doesn't make me or anyone else better than you, it's just we have a fundamental understanding that sometimes there is no negotiation. Sometimes there is no chance for peace. You cannot negotiate with China because they aren't here to negotiate. They want to be dominant. Which would work except guys like me already have that job filled and we aren't going to be Wally Pipp'ed like a bunch of limp wristed latte sipping manlets. I have nothing against lattes, but you can't cave in someone's skull with a fireaxe with a latte in your hands.

You'll say why a fireaxe, you've got plenty of guns already. ( Stop looking at my arms) But the truth is fireaxes are more cinematic.

Soft people aren't cinematic. That's not a crime. It's just not effective for survival, no one actually listens to them and frankly chicks don't dig it.

That soft people can exist in America is proof of how much we all have so much to be grateful for here in the United States.

It's not your fight Tim. And that's OK. Just don't get in the way of the rest of us when it's time to make things cinematic.

Well that’s going to leave a mark.

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13 hours ago, bigbottom said:

I came back to this thread excited to see there was a couple pages of discussion over the exchange to open the session. Was really interested to hear folks’ takes on the nature of the exchange and what it means for how the new administration is setting expectations. 

Well, color me disappointed. 

Edit:  Also, the link I posted in the first post of the thread contains a five minute video that features her prominently. No need to go looking for pictures. 

[Insert Lord's name in vain here] this thread was unreadable and it contained a much bigger story. And I was wondering why nobody clicked your link to see about it.

Argbarf.

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