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Mass Shootings Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter squistion
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BladeRunner
Footballguy
Huh? You're being a tool now. Grow up.
And I'm pretty sure if he would have just taken his car and drove thru the crowd he could have killed 9 people easy.
You're so smug at wanting to take away people's constitutional rights, why don't you just take all of them? It appear that doesn't matter to you.
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parrot
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
why do ya'll come to a board for discussion and then put people on ignore who disagree with your views or challenge your ideas?He's on ignore.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
what if I said it doesn't matter to you ?
c'mon man ... you don't know what matters to me and what doesn't
it matters - I am all for stopping violent, evil people. Why isn't that the focus blows my mind. I think its because the anti-gun people don't really want to stop bad people. if they did - we'd see the focus on the bad people wouldn't we?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
and once again, gross exaggerations
if tools are REALLY your concern, are you ready to step up and ban / heavily restrict the tools people are using to murder ? do you know what those tools are ?
we have common sense gun laws in the USA - age laws, carry laws, ammunition laws, banning certain kinds of guns laws, laws where you can and cannot take guns and of course, the main law of DON'T SHOOT INNOCENT PEOPLE
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Huh? You're being a tool now. Grow up.
And I'm pretty sure if he would have just taken his car and drove thru the crowd he could have killed 9 people easy.
You're so smug at wanting to take away people's constitutional rights, why don't you just take all of them? It appear that doesn't matter to you.
I don't believe there is anybody in here that has posted they want to take away your rights, including me. 
dkp993
Footballguy
The key word here SC is discussion.....
dis·cus·sion
/dəˈskəSH(ə)n/
noun
the action or process of talking about something in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.
There is no “discussion” with you on this topic as your feet are firmly planted in concrete and your points have been reiterated 100’s of time. That’s all completely fine and certainly your right. I’m not judging that. But discussion with you on this is pointless when someone can just read your past thoughts on it an be caught up.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
do you see having to show a valid ID to vote as taking away a right ?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
look at how it goes .... people say "ban the assault weapons" and then I ask what IS an assault weapon and I get called a troll or NRA rhetoric or called a liar .... you can see that I'm sure
we HAVE common sense gun laws - people saying we don't are uneducated on the subject
and when the discussion shows the facts on how rare rifles are used in murders and yet, that's the political target and agenda ..... when we can't even define the dang things ( my son's turkey shotgun can be labeled an assault weapon - I mean that's crazy isn't it ? )
I remind in every thread of the above things. I absolutely do and its not being concrete on them, its 100% real and true facts.
I'd be glad to discuss how to prosecute the thousands who try and buy guns every year who aren't legally allowed to - 99.9% of them don't get looked at. Why? I think that's a massive problem. I'd like to discuss the high % of felons who seem to continue murdering and hurting people. Why? Why are they allowed in our society?
I'd love to see studies on WHERE the violence is, what is the social climate and are there any profiles to who is violent and why?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Many shootings are tied to retaliatory violence between rival groups ,,,,, Black Portlanders make up a disproportionately high percentage of victims.,,,,,,
maybe there is a connection there and the reason minorities were stopped so much is they're the ones contributing to the violence more ?
I know liberals hate to read that .... but if its true, don't hate it, understand it
https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2021/04/editorial-portlands-gun-violence-surge-needs-dedicated-police-team.html
sho nuff
Footballguy
People don’t ignore others just because they disagree. One of many reasons is ignoring those where you cannot have a reasonable discussion. For some...I fot that bill. Fine by me...do what you want.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Depends on a few things. How readily available is this valid ID for all segments of the population? Seems to me that there is small, but significant share of the population where getting such an idea is not a reasonable expectation to place upon them. So then the question is how do we get such that these people can vote both in the immediate election where they won't have an ID and in future elections. There are ways to address these concerns such to make your answer "no", but generally speaking these voter ID laws address them with smoke and mirrors giving the illusion of making accommodations for those where getting such an ID is not a reasonable expectation.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I can't speak for others, but I would guess that's mostly the case. I used to not have people on ignore, but within the last year it's grown to about a dozen posters. 0 to do with disagreeing with people - I still disagree with several in this thread.
Mostly you are on ignore if you constantly skip over questions and just post the same stuff, if you lump one side of the political spectrum altogether and/or claim they are a problem, if you repeatedly link youtube videos and other crap, if the majority of your contributions to thread is a laughing/cry emoji or following others around for gotchas and high fives, or if you have used the terms race hustler or claimed one side is drumming up a race war. I think that about covers it.
Also, I don't 100% ignore either - I will still occasionally open an ignored user's posts, it just means that I have more control over how much of that I want to consume. Usually I am just reminded of why I have said user on ignore though.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Seems like it's the left that is engaging in the unreasonable discussion. Look at how they treat @Stealthycat and myself in this short couple page conversation. He brings the facts and logic and he gets labeled a troll. The only one's NOT changing their minds are the lefties.
I say we enforce the rules on the books first before we go making new ones. Let's see how that works out as a starting point.
Also, Chicago. You can't say extreme gun laws aren't in effect and yet....
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BladeRunner
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
That's too bad, you're missing some really good logic and facts.He's on ignore.
I guess that means I'll go on your ignore list soon too. Well, it was fun while it lasted.
dkp993
Footballguy
Re first bolded- In your opinion.Seems like it's the left that is engaging in the unreasonable discussion. Look at how they treat @Stealthycat. He brings the facts and logic and he gets labeled a troll. The only one's NOT changing their minds are the lefties.
I say we enforce the rules on the books first before we go making new ones. Let's see how that works out as a starting point.
Re underlined- There is lots of history here. That's basically what my post was trying to point out. It's a complete carbon copy of the gun thread.
Re second bolded - This is complete BS. Please show me where any "righties" (to follow your vernacular) changed their minds in this thread since you said "The only one's not...". Should be easy to find.
parrot
Footballguy
I have one user on ignore, StealthyCat. I find his reliance in these discussions on terrible analogies, strawmen, red herrings, and about every other logical fallacy you can name mind-numbingly tedious, making any attempts at genuine discussion with him especially pointless. If you decide to rely on those same methods, then yeah, maybe you'll go there too.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I haven't seen any of that from him.I have one user on ignore, StealthyCat. I find his reliance in these discussions on terrible analogies, strawmen, red herrings, and about every other logical fallacy you can name mind-numbingly tedious, making any attempts at genuine discussion with him especially pointless. If you decide to rely on those same methods, then yeah, maybe you'll go there too.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Lol. BR proving my point with your quoted. Claiming SC is labeled a troll, nobody said that. Claiming I want to take away rights, I didn't say that. That's why people are on ignore - not bothering to read posts or join the discussion.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
You LITERALLY claimed I didn't care about mass shootings. This post you're crying about was a direct response of your personal - and pretty disgusting - attack.
How about cleaning your own house up before you complain about others?
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Very fair point.
1. Sorry - I mixed up posters and thought that was quote of SC.
2. I should have been more clear. At no point was I claiming that people in here don't care about mass shootings or deaths. My statement was trying to point out that his post and rebuttal "matters 0 to him". (again, thinking it was SC).
3. Again, sorry for the mix up.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
as readily accessible and available as a license required to buy a gun or ammunition ?
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Is there a controversy anywhere about ID requirements keeping people from purchasing guns? If so then even more reason to address the inability of some to get IDs.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
let me say this to the anti-gunners
in the last 10 years, gun owners have conceded to banning bump stocks, raising age limits on gun purchases, red flag laws, where guns cannot be carried and I'm sure many other restrictions in varying manners and forms including city/local gun bans
we gun owners HAVE been giving - what has anti-gun people given? what part of their constitutional rights have anti-gun people and non-gun owners given to stop violence?
lets have that discussion maybe too
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I think its logical that a person not having any ID's saying who they are can't buy guns or vote
its equally oppressive or is it simply ensuring legality in our society ? I think its the latter
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
tell me what you mean by "talking points" ?The truth is hard to face when all you have is talking points.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
the odd part is .... you can look at places with take, take and take and how's the crime/violence look in those places ?
horrible
the only place I can think of that 100% bans violence, weapons etc is prison ... and its full of violence and they have weapons
GordonGekko
Footballguy
If you are an American citizen and you do not have a valid and current ID of some kind then you've made the decision to not be a part of the rest of American society. There are obviously going to be some limited exceptions like those who are mentally ill or the elderly who no longer have agency but America was not built to accommodate each and every exception to the rule.
The United States is a land of opportunity and second chances but you do have to jump through some pretty basic hoops.
If you are an adult ( and not in the range of some limited exceptions) and don't have current and valid ID = You've chosen not to be a functional part of this society.
You actually need ID to do things in this country. Like get on an airplane or start a bank account or get a library card. It's a long list.
If you've chosen not to be a functional part of this society = Why should you suddenly be this major sweeping issue to make you a functional part of this portion of civic responsibility but not on any of the other issues?
Jumping through some pretty basic hoops is not racism. It's not bigotry. It's not an attack on some segment of society.
Some people don't want to work. OK, that's a choice. Then don't eat. Don't have a roof over your head. Don't have regular access to a toilet. Some things are a "hoop" of life that just need to be jumped over.
Some people don't want to have basic hygiene. OK, that's a choice. Then don't get any sex. No chick is going to blow you if you smell like used gym socks buried in a septic tank. Don't get hired in job interviews. Don't expect people to give you normal everyday social interactions.
Some people don't want to stop using drugs or shoving too much food in their face or getting sauced up on booze. OK, that's a choice. Don't expect to much success in finding any kind of peace of mind or long term health.
There's just some things you need to do in this life and in this society to have basic survival and basic function. Having a current and valid ID as a pathway to many of these things is one of those hoops that need to be hurdled.
Again, there are going to be some limited exceptions, but don't expect the rest of America to bend over backwards and subsidize those who choose not to get into the game of life.
dkp993
Footballguy
This is exactly why there’s no “discussion” going on here and you a SC are a guilty as anyone for it. You’re not interested in a discussion, your only interested in convincing someone else of your viewpoint.
-I’m not anti-gun, in fact I’ve been gun shopping for my first for a while know. Will be buying 1 (likely 2) here soon. Yet somehow if someone what’s to discuss additional regulations they’re “anti-gunner”
-this take take take argument is false and weak. Of course when you start with no regulation and add in 200+ years of weapon evolution regulations are going to come. What do you expect it to go the other way and start allow full autos? How about rocket launchers or land mines? Do you really think the founding fathers intended for us to be walking around with tactical Nuclear weapons? These lines are consistently changing and will continue too as “arms” evolve.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
exactly. I popped open one of the barrage of SC posts, and of course it was going off about "anti-gunners". To my knowledge, that doesn't describe anybody in this thread, but it gets repeated a lot. It give the impression of having 0 desire to understand the other side or read the posts in the thread.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
This is ignorance at best. Yes these are limited exceptions, but those we care about have nothing to do with checking out of the game of life.GordonGekko said:
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Again I would care less about voter id if there was not a small, but significant number of people where getting an ID is well beyond the painful waiting in line but otherwise trivial task for most us. I would care less if the reason all of these people cannot get an ID is because of their own fault. But there are people who cannot feasibly get an ID. Address that so these people can become legal gun owners and then I would have nothing to worry about when it comes to voting.Stealthycat said:
GordonGekko
Footballguy
VIDEO: Tucker Carlson - Candace Owens Responds To Dems Saying “Black People Can’t Have Photo ID” •Mar 29, 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_9FJx3Lan0
Direct Headline: Reality: Photo ID required for almost everything in life…
Verne Hill Aug 01, 2016
https://www.wbfj.fm/fact-photo-id-required-almost-everything-life/
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-photo-id
VIDEO: Shapiro EXPOSES The Left's LIES About Georgia's Voting •Mar 31, 2021
Shapiro hammers the Dems' attacks on voter verification procedures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgOsWX-sHgI
******
If you don't have current and valid ID, you cannot
- Apply for a job, and work in a legal manner.
- Get a bank account
- Get married ( this might not be so horrible actually)
- Drive a car legally
- Fly on an airplane
- Deal with multiple government agencies such as the Social Security Administration
- Get a US passport
- Get a library card
- Processing through for standard care with a doctor/hospital/pharmacy in a legal manner
- Voting in a union ( Didn't Biden just pump a ton of money into union jobs? )
- Rent or buy a place to live
- Applying for a professional license
- Verification in many instances with use of a personal check and/or credit card
So if you can't legally find a place to live, drive, have basic banking, have basic medical care and/or work then, to you, this is NOT checking out of the game of life.
What's your solution? Offer up something that fixes this problem.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
explain that scenario please - because I can't think of one really except in a wild what-if situation
Stealthycat
Footballguy
dkp993 said:
oh I'm interested in a discussion - how do we stop mass shooters? Lets discuss that. ..... we stop them by killing them with guns. That works. We stop them with profiling and pro-active moves that often are based on tips from people who know the crazies. That's why I support red flag laws IF and only if they're done right. We stop them by putting security where we have our most valued things, like schools.
on violence, prosecute anyone lying on background checks. We could stop early parole of violent criminals. We could try and eradicate cartel and gang's.
See how I'm targeting the core problems. THAT is a real discussion in my opinion with real results.
The people not wanting a real discussion supports gun bans - they have no desire to tackle the REAL problem.
You're not discussion real regulations in a logical and reasonable way. We HAVE regulations, thousands of them. To target rifles that are used in 2-3% of all murders using guns isn't rational and figuring the crazies that want to mass murder will just use handguns/shotguns etc is the reality so what have we done as a society if that scenario happens? We've banned guns from millions of law abiding citizens and accomplished nothing. Who would support such a thing ?
your last point - 200+ years ago citizens had the same weapons as the US Govt did, same weapons as the military. Gun owners agreed with you - we've never lobbied to keep nuclear weapons or surface to air missiles or land mines. We've agreed and conceded on many anti-gun issues from the fully auto weapons to bump stocks to certain types of ammunition to age limits ........ did you know when my Dad was a kid, at 14 years old he could go buy a gun, ammunition, carry it to school as the other boys did too and nobody ever shot anyone else? In 1985 I was carrying a rifle in my truck to school (leaving it in my truck) and half the other boys did too and, nobody ever shot anyone else. I could also buy ammo and guns as a teenager.
all that is gone now - with age requirements etc and look at the violence that happens (I'm not going to link the youth violence, its sad, disturbing and nobody wants to address it)
so logically tell me how guns are the problem ? its the PEOPLE that are the problem - aren't they ?
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
You are old and the government made clerical errors on your birth certificate 70+ years ago (presuming you even had a birth certificate) that never mattered in the past, but suddenly does today. So to get an ID you spin your wheels with various government agencies incurring various cost some of which require going to court that are problematic to your fixed income. Not to mention that often these government agencies tell you stuff that simply isn't true so you are jumping over hurdles that only exist because of bureaucratic incompetence.
Oh, and this is not an imagined hypothetical. Sample article mostly about Texas
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I can't read that article
I'd be asking why after decades you'd just now realizing the Govt made errors on a birth certificate? Without an ID you can't do a great many things in the USA ............ voting would be one of the least concerns IMO
and .... personal choice to never get ID is 100% on the person, not rules/regulations/system
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Because it never mattered until the relatively recently when the Real ID Act has kicked in. These people could get a drivers license despite the errors when they drove in the past.
Gawain
Footballguy
Six People
Horrible tragedy. Speaks to the necessity of having to relax HIPAA for background checks. A clinically depressed, medicated person was able to buy a weapon almost instantly. I have a shotgun for home protection and I support the 2A, but background checks and a mandatory wait are needed.
Note a brother left
Horrible tragedy. Speaks to the necessity of having to relax HIPAA for background checks. A clinically depressed, medicated person was able to buy a weapon almost instantly. I have a shotgun for home protection and I support the 2A, but background checks and a mandatory wait are needed.
Note a brother left
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
have you noticed all the muslim shooters lately (names appear muslim, maybe they're Catholic .... I'm assuming)
I think everyone agree's with background checks for new gun purchases, right? if they bought their guns new, they DID go through a background check
If they bought off someone face to face, there is no way to stop that. Ever
but we know that unless the database is updated and they'd been clinically diagnosed and treated and that information was entered, it wouldn't matter even so ......... and then, the Fed Govt wouldn't pursue their background failures anyway :( until the Fed Govt gets what we have right, its impossible to think more unenforced laws would matter
Gawain
Footballguy
I get why the NRA doesn't give in. Planned Parenthood doesn't give in reproductive rights. Unions don't give in on non-union labor.
However, a 72-hour wait with a good background check sure seems like a common sense solution.
Regardless of ethnicity and religion, the two brothers seem 100% American, up to blaming the Office for what they did.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
any evidence at all that this would make any difference at all ?
yes and no ... religion matters ............ muslim's seem to have a different view on killing family members for honor and God and ... well read that article. He said he loved them, that's why he did it ? very odd thinking to me but its a total difference culture / religion too
Stealthycat
Footballguy
we could have a thread on inner city violence and it would go 1 or 2 pages
seems nobody cares about day to day murders much - they really only care about something they see on CNN and then and only then do they knee jerk/freak out/demand actions now !!!
:(
seems nobody cares about day to day murders much - they really only care about something they see on CNN and then and only then do they knee jerk/freak out/demand actions now !!!
:(
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Not to vote, nor to reasonably obtain the identification needed to vote. Not sure if what they do have would allow buying a firearm, or impose the same kind of restrictions.
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