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Mass Shootings Thread


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53 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

How many votes you need?  Biden can't reach across the aisle and negotiate something for gun control?  You know to save lives

I can work with both Democrats and Republicans, I don't see red and blue states, only United States.   :lmao:

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4 hours ago, dkp993 said:

8 people dead just trying to go to work and support their families.  Heartbreaking.  

But the most eye opening part of the article I read on yahoo this morning... “It was at least the third mass shooting this year in Indianapolis alone.”.  3rd? In only 4 months? WTF man!!

I know one was a kid shot up his family over a dispute over a stimulus check. Can’t recall what the other two were but I think they were similar in nature....not of the type that occurred last night. Not that any type of mass shooting is less tragic than another 😢.

what struck me was during a press conference this morning our police chief talked about how when he came here in 1993 he had fallen in love with this city because it was a large city with a small town feel and had a small town crime rate. Now we suffer crime and murder rates rivaling the bigger cities.

😢 again. 

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1 minute ago, boilerdave said:

Last employed there in 2020.

 

Just now, boilerdave said:

No motive yet. 

still could be part of the motive, even if not currently employed.  we've seen students go back to a former school years later.  

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On 4/12/2021 at 6:37 PM, VandyMan said:

WTF??

 

Josh Moon  @Josh_Moon · 2h

Cops shot and killed a 17-year-old in a school bathroom and justified it by saying he shot a cop. They've now admitted the cop accidentally shot himself and suddenly no one is willing to say exactly what happened.

 

 

I am not saying that the police have no credibility right now, but lets just say, I don't believe many things they say.

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Of course. History of mental problems.  Guy had an issue where they took a shotgun away from him last year and they were told he was fantasizing about suicide by cop and threatening suicide.  

That's 5/5 now with these guys and their mental problems. Why do we let the wackos have guns?

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25 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Of course. History of mental problems.  Guy had an issue where they took a shotgun away from him last year and they were told he was fantasizing about suicide by cop and threatening suicide.  

That's 5/5 now with these guys and their mental problems. Why do we let the wackos have guns?

What was the diagnosis and was he getting treated?  Are we 5 for 5 with different mental illnesses too? 

Yeah, the bolded seems textbook example of those 4 traits I posted before, I was going to read up on it tonight, but maybe you know since you've been reading - how did he get these guns if the bolded was true? 

 

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THIS was the article that I was reading through.  

I am not saying there wasn't interventions, and maybe we will find out more in the next few days, but from what I understand the FBI came to his house last year after his mother called, took a shotgun.   IMO the fact that he was talking about doing this or at least suicide by cop is pretty textbook, so is the part we are failing mandatory psych evals?  Mandatory treatment?   Were they doing this and they didn't help?  

Just odd that the info makes it seems like they took the gun, he wasn't posting about racial motivations, so not much they can do.  

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1 hour ago, tonydead said:

Of course. History of mental problems.  Guy had an issue where they took a shotgun away from him last year and they were told he was fantasizing about suicide by cop and threatening suicide.  

That's 5/5 now with these guys and their mental problems. Why do we let the wackos have guns?

You're right.  Take them away from everyone.  Problem --> Solution 

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36 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

You're right.  Take them away from everyone.  Problem --> Solution 

Everyone who has been treated for mental illness or currently on mood altering drugs. That's a reasonable compromise that solves the problem.  

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Can you define what would qualify under this?

Clinical depression, anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder, dementia, attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder, schizophrenia, obsessive compulsive disorder, autism and post traumatic stress. 

And anyone currently prescribed psychotic or mood altering medication. 

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We are back to that huge umbrella again, and:

1.  That takes guns out of the hands of a lot of returning vets.

2.  That takes protection away from a lot of women who might want it after escaping abusive pasts.  

3.  most of those in that group are far more likely to self harm

4.  As far as I've read, mental illness diagnosis/meds aren't a common factor for these shooters, despite people like tony repeating that. 

5.  IMO a big unintended consequence will be people are less likely to seek help knowing they won't be able to buy a gun.  

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15 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

4.  As far as I've read, mental illness diagnosis/meds aren't a common factor for these shooters, despite people like tony repeating that. 

We're 5 out of the last 5. That's not coincidence.  You've admitted several times just today that you need to read up on stuff. You should probably take a break and go do that.

As for your other concerns, we can hammer it out in the legislation. Some people are going to loose out, oh well. At least it's common sence compromise that would have prevented all 5 of these last shootings. Its almost like you guys really dont want gun reform.  

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2 hours ago, tonydead said:

Of course. History of mental problems.  Guy had an issue where they took a shotgun away from him last year and they were told he was fantasizing about suicide by cop and threatening suicide.  

That's 5/5 now with these guys and their mental problems. Why do we let the wackos have guns?

How do you determine this?

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5 minutes ago, tonydead said:

We're 5 out of the last 5. That's not coincidence.  You've admitted several times just today that you need to read up on stuff. You should probably take a break and go do that.

As for your other concerns, we can hammer it out in the legislation. Some people are going to loose out, oh well. At least it's common sence compromise that would have prevented all 5 of these last shootings. Its almost like you guys really dont want gun reform.  

This is one that I have read up on, thanks to SC and the other thread.   I even posted a link to articles of the 4 common traits of shooters, and another link about how lack of mental wellness <> mental illness.  

I get the impulse to group all these guys as "wackos" and blame mental illness though. 

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15 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Did I just see that correctly - we are at 150 mass shootings on the year already?  Link

 

 

Right. And if you include things like "drive by shooting" then you'd be correct mental illness isnt the major factor.  I'm talking about the ones sensationalized by the media. The dozens of black on black murders every weekend in Chicago largely go ignored as they are primarily handguns.  I suppose mental illness bans wouldnt be anymore effective than AR bans if we're lumping them in together. 

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11 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Right. And if you include things like "drive by shooting" then you'd be correct mental illness isnt the major factor.  I'm talking about the ones sensationalized by the media. The dozens of black on black murders every weekend in Chicago largely go ignored as they are primarily handguns.  I suppose mental illness bans wouldnt be anymore effective than AR bans if we're lumping them in together. 

You got me thinking, and my understanding is they were not talking about gang/inner city shootings in the article.  

HERE is one that I linked before, and if you click the link to the violence project page, the incidents they list are basically all school/work/church, etc..   and their common traits were:

found that the shooters typically have an experience with childhood trauma, a personal crisis or specific grievance, and a “script” or examples that validate their feelings or provide a roadmap. And then there’s the fourth thing: access to a firearm.

 

There is also talk in there about mental illness as well, and this is common to what I read elsewhere:

Two-thirds of the mass shooters in the database had a documented history of mental health problems. While this seems high, researchers point out that roughly 50% of Americans have experienced some kind of mental health problem at some point in their lives.

Moreover, the percentage of shooters whose crimes were directly motivated by the symptoms of a mental disorder (such as delusions or hallucinations caused by psychosis) is much smaller: roughly 16%. That is a smaller percentage than shooters motivated by hate, a workplace grievance, or an interpersonal conflict.

“If someone has a mental health history, I think we’ve gotten in the habit of blaming that for their actions,” said Peterson. “But someone can have, say, depression, and it’s not like everything they do is driven by that.”

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10 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

What do you mean by "these mass shootings?" 

Most mass shootings are done with handguns.  

 

Ok, we can start limiting their availability too. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.  Glad we're on the same page. 

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On 4/16/2021 at 7:43 AM, Godsbrother said:

 I keep waiting for all of the "good guys with guns" to come forward and put an end to mass shootings.   

Seems like the "bad guys with guns" are winning.

 

Allow everyone to carry. See how fast it stops. 

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Ok, we can start limiting their availability too. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.  Glad we're on the same page. 

You wont find me too far off your page when it comes to gun control. I dont get bent out of shape or passionate about most of it because I think almost all measures proposed by congress will make miniscule dents, but i still usually support them or am neutral on them. 

Want to ban AR15s? Ok. 

Want to extend background checks and waiting periods? Cool

Want to ban shoulder stabilizers? Ummmmm.....sure, but yay good job, .08 deaths per year prevented. 

Want to increase sentences and drastically increase bail for all crimes involving guns? This might be where we differ because I fully support it. 

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2 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

Ok, we can start limiting their availability too. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.  Glad we're on the same page. 

 

Im not trying to be a smart ### here, its an honest question because I thought I read this years ago, do you live in the US?

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2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

 

Want to ban AR15s? Ok. 

Want to extend background checks and waiting periods? Cool

 

Here’s the question: given that the vast majority of Republican congresspeople and senators strongly oppose the above two items, preventing any and all federal action, are you willing to vote for Democrats in the next election? 

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22 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Here’s the question: given that the vast majority of Republican congresspeople and senators strongly oppose the above two items, preventing any and all federal action, are you willing to vote for Democrats in the next election? 

These issues arent important enough to me to really affect my vote. I think these measures save a handful of lives. I think the number of AR15s in circulation is so high that a ban on them accomplishes almost nothing. By the time enough of them "broke down" a new gun would be manufactured that takes its place that falls outside of whatever legislation was passed. 

I would never advocate against doing it and would prefer it to be done. And if two candidates were basically equal except for this, then I guess it would sway me then. 

Now if a politician was stepping to the plate with a bill for much stricter legal ownership requirements and then much stricter enforcement for being in violation of those requirements that would probably sway me. But I dont think even democrats have the stomach for that right now and the blowback it would cause. 

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1 hour ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

 

Im not trying to be a smart ### here, its an honest question because I thought I read this years ago, do you live in the US?

I do now.  I lived in Spain for a year and half about 15 years ago.  My wife grew up in Venezuela.  I'd love to live abroad again, but the employment situation is tough for foreigners everywhere.  My wife was offered a position in Switzerland last year, but it wasn't a great fit for her so she turned it down. 

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9 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

I do now.  I lived in Spain for a year and half about 15 years ago.  My wife grew up in Venezuela.  I'd love to live abroad again, but the employment situation is tough for foreigners everywhere.  My wife was offered a position in Switzerland last year, but it wasn't a great fit for her so she turned it down. 

Jesus, that was 15 years ago? I remember that like it was yesterday.

 

We're old. 

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Yeah, you're telling me...  when I moved abroad I was 25.  Broke, but unencumbered.  Eager to explore the world and the people in it. 

Now, I'm 40, have kids, etc.  I'm ready for my kids to see the world, hopefully some of the good, hopefully not much of the bad, but definitely some of the ugly. 

But that's not what this thread is about. 

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On 4/17/2021 at 7:45 AM, parasaurolophus said:

These issues arent important enough to me to really affect my vote. I think these measures save a handful of lives. I think the number of AR15s in circulation is so high that a ban on them accomplishes almost nothing. By the time enough of them "broke down" a new gun would be manufactured that takes its place that falls outside of whatever legislation was passed. 

I would never advocate against doing it and would prefer it to be done. And if two candidates were basically equal except for this, then I guess it would sway me then. 

Now if a politician was stepping to the plate with a bill for much stricter legal ownership requirements and then much stricter enforcement for being in violation of those requirements that would probably sway me. But I dont think even democrats have the stomach for that right now and the blowback it would cause. 

I understand and can’t disagree with s lot of this. Of course we know that many of those who oppose all of these proposals have this issue as their #1 priority. And that’s how they prevent it, despite being a minority opinion. 

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

3 dead in Austin shooting at arboretum,  3 dead in Kenosha at a college bar 

Austin shooter was a former cop fired and facing charges of assaulting a child.

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

Kenosha shooter was previously caught for illegal possession of a firearm, twice.

 

39 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Austin shooter was a former cop fired and facing charges of assaulting a child.

Indy shooter "wanted cops to kill him", had his shotgun taken via red flag law, then still went out and "legally" bought more guns. :rolleyes:

It's almost like we should start enforcing the laws we have and adding a "history of violence + mental illness" qualifier to background checks. 

But no.... "ghost guns" were used in one crime last year* so let's clutch our pearls because it's easier than admitting crazy people with guns is the problem. :lol: 
 

 

*made up but likely fairly accurate statistic 

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10 minutes ago, [icon] said:

 

It's almost like we should start enforcing the laws we have and adding a "history of violence + mental illness" qualifier to background checks. 

But no.... "ghost guns" were used in one crime last year* so let's clutch our pearls because it's easier than admitting crazy people with guns is the problem. :lol: 
 

 

*made up but likely fairly accurate statistic 

Or you know...enforce current laws and improve them as well.

I dont think anyone calling for increased regulation is saying don’t enforce what we have.

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

 

I dont think anyone calling for increased regulation is saying don’t enforce what we have.

They might not say it directly. But it is happening all the time. 

"Felon in possession of a firearm" has a maximum sentence of ten years in WI. How often do you think they get 10 years? 

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15 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

They might not say it directly. But it is happening all the time. 

"Felon in possession of a firearm" has a maximum sentence of ten years in WI. How often do you think they get 10 years? 

Not sure what this has to do with what I said.  Is anyone who is calling for more regulations advocating to not adhering to current regulations?

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46 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Not sure what this has to do with what I said.  Is anyone who is calling for more regulations advocating to not adhering to current regulations?

Are you talking in general or on this board? 

I was speaking in general. 

In general democrat politicians call for more gun control yet also call for reduced sentencing, lower bail, etc. 

And yes that includes gun possession. And yes, i know republicans do this part too, just not as often.

 

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