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Mass Shootings Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter squistion
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Didnt you just argue with somebody about hate crime definitions?
Eta: nevermind, i see your post above
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parrot
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa, in the coming days, will be painted a victim of islamophobia, or bullying, and this will be turned around into something very different than what it actually is I bet
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
This is one of several articles - https://atlantablackstar.com/2018/07/16/rural-red-states-that-voted-for-trump-are-experiencing-a-surge-in-crime/
and the articles all seemed to reference this (horrible to open on my ancient laptops) as a primary source - https://www.governing.com/archive/gov-crime-rural-urban-cities.html
They also tended to reference this which (from memory) which was more general - https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/20/facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/
and/or this which is more survey type information- https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/10/rural-and-urban-gun-owners-have-different-experiences-views-on-gun-policy/
I think these links cover everything I read - a representative article, main source, and polling on attitudes. I didn't see anything that contradicted that "governing.com" article. That is nothing that reinforced my initial position that it was silly to be extra afraid of crime in rural areas because the rates were so low that the response times would be pretty much irrelevant. Apparently I was wrong about that. At least per the above.
supermike80
Footballguy
Youd think after the endless number of times this country's fathers, mothers, sons and daughters have to endure a mass shooting we could get past the surface and move on to more than just the 2nd amendment.
Nope...Always this...Always...and nothing changes.
Nope...Always this...Always...and nothing changes.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
seeking asylum requires it too - but the liberals have turned every person coming into US illegally as seeking asylum so ..... I dunno is pure definitions matter anymore
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Thanks, there is some good info there. I don't know ek lives, but like you said (I think it was you), my initial reaction was "really?", and like I posted I immediately went to burglary as the reason you'd want protection, which seemed to be on the decline.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Seeing twitter leftists just pivot to "he survived because he looked white if he was black they would have killed him."
Like Vince Vaugh says, always double down.
Like Vince Vaugh says, always double down.
Kamala Harris' niece has a nice thread going:
https://twitter.com/meenaharris/status/1374390208074895364
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
parrot
Footballguy
No he didn't have automatic weapons. Automatic weapons are very rarely used in crimes, largely because they are difficult and expensive to get your hands on due to the long-standing regulations on their manufacture, transfer, and use, which carry heavy fines and jail time. Evidence that gun laws work just fine when we make them sufficiently impactful to those that might consider violating them.
djmich
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
We need more gun control:Biden already using this to push for more gun control.
We need universal background checks. The vast majority of Americans agree with this.
I would also like to see all guns in this country registered.
I would also like to ban AR-15s and AR-15 type weapons. But I’m not as sure about this as I am about the first two. I’m open to arguments. The ones made in this thread haven’t been too compelling so far, IMO.
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
If I am to speak for you Tim. I think you are consistent. I think you favor the right for individuals to own guns, but government with a good enough reason should prevent certain individuals from owning any guns and/or all individual to own certain types of guns. For immigration I think you believe in the general right that any individual can freely enter (and leave) the country and work except for those specific individuals where the government has a good enough reason to keep out. And since it is easier to get in you would ban entry points other than the front doors where these "background checks" can be performed. Now that is really general and the devil is in what is "good enough" reason among other details being glossed over, but I think I am close to what you have posted over the almost two decade here just reworded a bit . And I think they are reasonable close to being the same.
timschochet
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
so what other things would you ban that caused mass deaths ?
cigarettes?
alcohol?
sugar?
These "assault" rifles are simple semi-auto rifles normally much less "powerful" than a hunting rifle
They look scary - and they've been branded as "assault" weapons for so long, people believe them !!
Thing is, nobody ever had fully auto weapons to amount to anything. But these semi-auto rifles? People have them, a lot of them, and very very exceptionally rarely is ones used incorrectly. Like ... there are what, 25 million "assault" style AR15's in the USA and maybe 10-20 of them a year are used wrongly?
that's justification for banning ?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
We don't need more gun control
We've had background checks for a long long time and the US Govt fails to prosecute anyone who tries to buy illegally and the entire system is a failure - typical Govt
I will never register my guns and that law would create tens of millions of criminals
and finally .... good gawd, why would you ban a semi-auto .223 rifle ??
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Shooter was a muslim, do we know the races of the people who were shot and killed beside the police officer? We looking at a hate crime here?
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
djmich
Footballguy
So sad, 10 people killed and first thing that comes to their mind is how can I earn twitter cred with a demeaning joke about white people.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Didn't I read in the Washington Post article that slightly more than half of those they called mass shootings ended in the killer being killed (or killing themselves) during the act? If I remember correctly then I think the message is going to be falling of deaf ears. It is not going to serve the claimed purpose of acting as a "second thought" deterrent.
Okay I looked before hitting send-
194 shooters
Some of these mass shooters were known to have violent tendencies or criminal pasts. Others seemed largely fine until they attacked. All but 5 were male. The vast majority were between the ages of 20 and 49. More than half — 103 of them — died at or near the scene of the shooting, often by killing themselves.
It's actually quite entertaining. Half the people are showing they're as bigoted as the Harris family and the other half berating those people for their bigotry.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
this is true - but after they've hurt a lot of people
I want to be able to protect myself - everyone in that King Soopers was depending on police and/or security to protect them from that guy Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa
Laws didn't bind Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa
Morality and ethics didn't bind Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa
there was two things that were going to stop him - superior force or himself ......... I just wish someone would have been able to be pro-active like this situation months ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqWibXye6YE
the above is what happens when people can defend themselves
sho nuff
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
its very odd
it was assumed this was a white guy and thus, white supremacist and race/hate crime ...and had it been, nobody would have been talking about the backlash on whites
but
the guy was a muslim, and I've yet to see anyone declare him a terrorist and nobody has pointed it as race/hate crime ...and the oddest thing, people are talking about the backlash towards muslims now
its fascinating to see the blatant hypocrisy
djmich
Footballguy
unfortunately you forgot about the part where he wouldn't have been taken alive if white.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
This is all unrelated to the point I was addressing. You said you want this guy "...executed tomorrow .. [to] ...send a clear message to the very very small % of wacko's out there that doing things like this won't be tolerated". I'm saying that it seems these should already know that death is more likely than not. And if they don't already get this then I doubt they will be receiving any messages.
timschochet
Footballguy
Universal means every state. It means that if you live in Colorado you can’t drive to Nevada, go to a gun show, and buy a firearm from a private dealer without a background check. No loopholes.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
crackattack
Footballguy
I'm on board with the first 2. I'd also like a mandatory wait time and tighter restrictions on certain misdemeanors like anything violent. I'd also go tougher with mandatory training/proficiency ability. Guns should be harder to acquire, not just more expensive.
sho nuff
Footballguy
No reason we can't do both...focus on gun control as well as mental health concerns.
Seems always a push back though when the two are combined.
Nothing changes because the pressure and money seems to indicate nothing will.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
To make a bit of a joke?
Because I can sort of protect myself from lightning strikes.
Like...you know, if I need to go out, I try to avoid doing so during thunderstorms that are producing lightning. Have an app on my phone that shows lightning strikes nearby. If the weather is looking rough, I check it before going out for a run or whatever.
If I need groceries...there is no app to show me if there is a possible mass shooting. The comparison was ridiculous to start with....and sometimes a little levity with a joke is needed IMO.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I agree...we don't do both...we do neither really. There never is a real debate about gun control. Just claims that it is too soon or that no laws would help. Then we wait for the next time.
That does not keep others from adding in talk about mental illness to the discussion either.
The two are often intertwined.
As usual you totally missed my point with the comparison. I was making the point that the total number of deaths by mass shootings and lightning strikes was the same, yet we (and the media) don’t evaluate the risk with the same degree of concern.
-jb-
Footballguy
Despite the ridiculous comparison, 49 people are killed in the US by lightning each year. Now do mass shootings.
https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-victims
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mass-shootings-2019-more-than-days-365/
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Because they are not remotely the same thing, as I would think most people agree. Not all modes of death are equal just because they might take the same number of lives.
Yes, I agree there is a political component because of the guns, but also the psychological effect on survivors and the community.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
ObamaCare put mental health benefits under the "essential" category. The ObamaCare thread will show how providing mental health benefits through Medicaid to inmates would bankrupt states. And responses such as I am not crazy why should I have to pay for this. So I guess my question is (not to be saying that those are your positions) that if we don't treat mental health as something that we cover with insurance such that it kicks in the same way as it would for a cancer diagnosis or a broken leg and if we don't spend state resource to provide mental health services for inmates and such then what should we be doing?
I mean I assume we shouldn't just look at people (like these guys) and say nope, you're too crazy to own a gun?
And you used data that was misleading. You looked at figures from the last 45 years, yet probably most mass shooting have occurred in the last 20 years. I am sure if you were to look at deaths from lighting strikes versus mass shootings in the last 10 years, the numbers would not be close to being the same.
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