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Mass Shootings Thread (1 Viewer)

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You might have missed this earlier, but gun ownership is actually a guaranteed right in our Constitution.  Driving cars isn't.
Good thing I have made absolutely zero post concerning cars.  But does it really matter?  

Maybe one day the Supreme Court will discover the existence of the ninth amendment and figure out they never needed to reinterpret the second to find a right for individuals to own arms, or cars.  I mean its been there since 1791 so any day now.

 
Good thing I have made absolutely zero post concerning cars.  But does it really matter?  

Maybe one day the Supreme Court will discover the existence of the ninth amendment and figure out they never needed to reinterpret the second to find a right for individuals to own arms, or cars.  I mean its been there since 1791 so any day now.
It was never re-interpreted.  It was spelled out for those who keep thinking it actually means "Bear Arms" and want to do away with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpeUznIhgLU

 
Education, housing and health care are necessities, and also benefit society.

Gun ownership, while a constitutional right, is not mandated nor necessary.   Placing the financial burdens of gun violence on gun owners
Well if we re add the part about "militia" one could have argued (at least historically) that gun ownership was for the benefit these militias and thus society.  But those days seem to be gone from both the perspective of the value of such a militia of everyday citizens with common firearms and the reading of the second amendment in recent decision.

 
Well if we re add the part about "militia" one could have argued (at least historically) that gun ownership was for the benefit these militias and thus society.  But those days seem to be gone from both the perspective of the value of such a militia of everyday citizens with common firearms and the reading of the second amendment in recent decision.
if a "well regulated militia" still mattered, requiring that militia to be insured would seem to be a pretty reasonable regulation.

 
Education, housing and health care are necessities, and also benefit society.
You have us confused with another country.  In this country necessities are freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, the right to due process, etc.  The three items you mention are not in the list.

Again, how is requiring a fee for insurance any different than requiring a fee for purchasing a gun?  
  What fee?  the only ones we have are for concealed carry.  Open carry carries no fees.

 
You have us confused with another country.  In this country necessities are freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, the right to due process, etc.  The three items you mention are not in the list.

  What fee?  the only ones we have are for concealed carry.  Open carry carries no fees.
Constitutional rights are not necessarily necessities.  You're conflating two entirely different concepts.   The Constitution never even mentions food.  That doesn't mean it isn't a necessity.

There are many states that require a license or permit to purchase a gun.  California is one of them.  Link

 
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Again, how is requiring a fee for insurance any different than requiring a fee for purchasing a gun?  
  What fee?  the only ones we have are for concealed carry.  Open carry carries no fees.
It's irrelevant that your particular state does not currently choose to have a fee for open carry.  Other states have fees to get licensed and those have been held to be Constitutional.

 
Over the past decade or so the meaning of the second amendment  (relative to historical court decisions) has been expanded, not suppressed.
if the Democrats could repeal the 2nd they would - I think everyone knows that. If they could ban most guns they would. Democrats are the force behind almost every gun infringement and law.

That's absolutely suppression 

 
You have us confused with another country.  In this country necessities are freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, the right to due process, etc.  The three items you mention are not in the list.
100% correct

 
again  "you can own a gun, we're just going to shackle you with many restrictions"

if we forced voters to pay $30 every time they voted - Democrats would scream how that's discrimination towards certain people - ya'll know they would

I assume everyone pro-gun insurance is also supporting all the Republican led rules/restrictions on voting - right ? hey, its just reasonable, common sense stuff, right ?

 
again  "you can own a gun, we're just going to shackle you with many restrictions"

if we forced voters to pay $30 every time they voted - Democrats would scream how that's discrimination towards certain people - ya'll know they would

I assume everyone pro-gun insurance is also supporting all the Republican led rules/restrictions on voting - right ? hey, its just reasonable, common sense stuff, right ?
Now do car registration

 
if the Democrats could repeal the 2nd they would - I think everyone knows that. If they could ban most guns they would. Democrats are the force behind almost every gun infringement and law.

That's absolutely suppression 
The rights granted by the second amendment were expanded in 2008 by the Heller Supreme Court decision.  And they have been further expanded in a few others.  Now I can understand the argument that the Supreme Court simply asserted principles that were always in the meaning that for the previous 130 years or so  were mistakingly  interpreted.  But it is not really disputable that the application of the second amendment has changed in 2008.  And that change has been an expansion in its application, not a suppression.

 
It's irrelevant that your particular state does not currently choose to have a fee for open carry.  Other states have fees to get licensed and those have been held to be Constitutional.
And again, what if there ends up being no insurance available?  The blue team will try like hell to make the standards for such insurance so tight that you may get no takers.  This would essentially ban guns in this locale. 

At what point do such actions cross the line into infringement?  

 
if the Democrats could repeal the 2nd they would - I think everyone knows that. If they could ban most guns they would. Democrats are the force behind almost every gun infringement and law.

That's absolutely suppression 
I think you drastically underestimate how many Ds own guns and wouldn't support a repeal of the 2nd.    This sounds like gun lobby scare tactics.  

 
Now do car registration
a car isn't a Constitutional Right

We all know (well we should know) Constitutional Rights are not absolute. Voting is a Right - but is has restrictions and rules. Speech is similar. Owning guns too. 

When does rules breach over into infringement/discrimination ?  

We live in a country where one side desperately wants to take something out of irrational fear and the other side is fighting hard to stop them because that something is very important to them. 

A car isn't that something

 
I think you drastically underestimate how many Ds own guns and wouldn't support a repeal of the 2nd.    This sounds like gun lobby scare tactics.  
when you vote Republican, you're voting for business, you're voting strong military, border control, big oil and many other things right ?

when you vote Democrat you vote for anti-gun legislations - they ALL stem from Democrats, every single one that I know of

so while a Republican voter like myself might really have environmental concerns (and I do) when I vote Republican I know I'm voting big oil

similarly a gun owning Democrat knows they're voting anti-gun

 
That's an interesting question.

Do you have data on that number? Or an opinion? 
I was just looking it up and coming back in.  I know, polls and all, but one of the first is this: LINK

In February, for instance, the Economist and YouGov asked Americans whether they supported a repeal of the Second Amendment. Twenty-one percent said they favored such a proposal, compared with 60 percent in opposition.

The poll does, however, show surprisingly robust support for Second Amendment repeal (39 percent) among Democrats (by contrast, 8 percent of Republicans would support a full repeal). Black Americans (30 percent) and Northeasterners (28 percent) also showed relatively high levels of support.

So as expected, there's more support from Ds, but not near enough to get anything done when you mix in Rs and independents.  I will also fully admit that I was surprised it was even as high as 39%, so I am glad I looked it up.  

 
when you vote Republican, you're voting for business, you're voting strong military, border control, big oil and many other things right ?

when you vote Democrat you vote for anti-gun legislations - they ALL stem from Democrats, every single one that I know of

so while a Republican voter like myself might really have environmental concerns (and I do) when I vote Republican I know I'm voting big oil

similarly a gun owning Democrat knows they're voting anti-gun
To be honest, I don't even consider guns when voting, but your point is taken.  

There is also a difference between gun legislation and repealing the 2nd.  

 
when you vote Republican, you're voting for business, you're voting strong military, border control, big oil and many other things right ?

when you vote Democrat you vote for anti-gun legislations - they ALL stem from Democrats, every single one that I know of

so while a Republican voter like myself might really have environmental concerns (and I do) when I vote Republican I know I'm voting big oil

similarly a gun owning Democrat knows they're voting anti-gun
I can see this too. I know not every issue fits neatly into a box. But most folks I know would be fine with putting "much more strict gun control" in the Democratic "box". And for sure, whether that's "anti-gun" is another discussion. 

 
I can see this too. I know not every issue fits neatly into a box. But most folks I know would be fine with putting "much more strict gun control" in the Democratic "box". And for sure, whether that's "anti-gun" is another discussion. 
and as I label Democrats as anti-gun I also label Republicans as what they are

I know pro-choice people who vote straight Republican yet, GOP is the party of pro-life ......... when they vote GOP they are voting against something they actually approve of but that's the costs of voting - rarely does a political party 100% line up with your beliefs

and so, I think Democrat voters ( like KarmaPolice stated ) never consider gun issues much when they vote Democrat because they often don't own guns or they're not gun enthusiasts / hunters etc. 

its very easy to vote others rights away isn't it?    :(

 
its very easy to vote others rights away isn't it?    :(
I don't think it's that. I think it's most people vote for the things they feel are important to them.

I think that's not just a more charitable way to view it but a more accurate way too. 

 
back to the San Jose law, i'm curious:

- which insurance company/companies would be inclined to offer such coverage?

- since payments for claims would be made [presumably] to the City, do they get to appoint/approve the various polices that would be offered? 

- is there a provision for "under-insured/non-insured" individuals? 

- would claims on self-inflicted shootings be paid (as this is a large percentage of shootings)? 

- would policies be different for all guns, or separate for each type of firearm? 

 
I think Democrat voters ( like KarmaPolice stated ) never consider gun issues much when they vote Democrat because they often don't own guns or they're not gun enthusiasts / hunters etc. 
I don't hear Dem politicians bring up guns in their campaign promises very much, or at least it's not the cornerstone of their platforms.  I can't recall a single Dem running for office promising to take peoples' guns, but I hear it constantly in right-wing media that the Dems are going to take your guns.

We have family friends that were convinced Obama was going to seize all of their guns, didn't hear much about guns from them during Trump's presidency, and now they're back to being paranoid that Biden is going to take their guns.  I assure you that there is no master plan by the Deep State to take everyone's guns.  If we applied the slippery slope argument to everything in life nothing would ever get done.

 
I don't think it's that. I think it's most people vote for the things they feel are important to them.

I think that's not just a more charitable way to view it but a more accurate way too. 
what's important to them also means there are things not important to them

to some people the Right to own guns isn't important and so, voting Democrat (the party of anti-gun) is easy .... isn't that pretty much the same thing as voting away someone's rights ?

I guess I don't see much difference. I'm not any different. I quickly move to vote away things I either do not do or disagree with. I've vote away tobacco today if I could and killing unborn babies. Nether are Constitutional Rights though but both are fiercely defended. 

 
Forgot about him.  Thanks.
Look at every anti-gun piece of legislation passed in the last 10 years, see if Democrats are not 99% behind all of them if not 100%

Sure, every now and then you get bi-partisan on things like bump stocks but these "assault" weapons bills? Democrat led

That's a core pillar of the party, it just is

 
"assault weapons" bans takes people guns

its exactly what it means
You inferred he wanted to take all the guns from all the people, not just a limited assault weapon ban, (was done once before and was quite effective in reducing deaths from assault weapons)

 
"assault weapons" bans takes people guns

its exactly what it means
You must not have read what you posted. He calls for banning the sale of assault rifles. He also calls for a gun buyback program so that owners of assault rifles can either sell them back to the government or they can register them if they don’t want to sell them. That isn’t “taking peoples guns”

 
I remember when Chicago had a gun buyback program.  The guns turned in were older broken ones.  The money was spent on new guns.  

 
And again, what if there ends up being no insurance available?  The blue team will try like hell to make the standards for such insurance so tight that you may get no takers.  This would essentially ban guns in this locale. 

At what point do such actions cross the line into infringement?  
This is a valid argument.   There are several instances of legislatures creating a system that assumed insurers would enter a market and provide for at least an alternate insurance to what existed, but once the law went into place the insurers declined to take on the risks.   

If the insurance requirement were overly burdensome or impossible to fulfill, I assume the law would be overturned.   If it is a minimal burden, such as that equal to a typical state fee for acquiring a gun, I believe it would be upheld.

 
I remember when Chicago had a gun buyback program.  The guns turned in were older broken ones.  The money was spent on new guns.  
The 2012 program netted 5,500 guns and was deemed a success.   Do you have some facts to back up your claim?

 
You inferred he wanted to take all the guns from all the people, not just a limited assault weapon ban, (was done once before and was quite effective in reducing deaths from assault weapons)
you can't define "assault weapon" .... because they're only defines by the words Democrats use to write these bills

remember - AR15 is a smaller caliber semi-auto rifle. That's all it is - nothing more, nothing less, and these laws ban guns based on accessories more than anything else

as I have posted, these bans take guns like my son's turkey hunting shotgun

from assault weapons - that doesn't attack the core problem, which are criminals

we could ban drunk driving in Ford truck if we banned Ford trucks .... wouldn't focus on the real problem though would it ?

 
I can see this too. I know not every issue fits neatly into a box. But most folks I know would be fine with putting "much more strict gun control" in the Democratic "box". And for sure, whether that's "anti-gun" is another discussion. 
77% of Republicans favor more stringent gun laws.   Almost the same percentage of active gun owners do as well,   

 
you can't define "assault weapon" .... because they're only defines by the words Democrats use to write these bills

remember - AR15 is a smaller caliber semi-auto rifle. That's all it is - nothing more, nothing less, and these laws ban guns based on accessories more than anything else

as I have posted, these bans take guns like my son's turkey hunting shotgun

from assault weapons - that doesn't attack the core problem, which are criminals

we could ban drunk driving in Ford truck if we banned Ford trucks .... wouldn't focus on the real problem though would it ?
Name every piece of federal legislation that confiscated a single gun.   Why do you continue to make this false claim?  

 
You must not have read what you posted. He calls for banning the sale of assault rifles. He also calls for a gun buyback program so that owners of assault rifles can either sell them back to the government or they can register them if they don’t want to sell them. That isn’t “taking peoples guns”
what is an "assault rifle" ?

I've asked that often, few can answer it because every bill defines them differently 

as I have posted before, my son's turkey hunting shotgun would be banned if the law I referenced were passed in my state/city ......... that's " taking " , aka banning, aka removing it from my legal possession 

 
Thanks? 
My point is that the claim that's being made that "Democrats want to take your guns" or that this is solely a "left" issue is false.   The vast majority of Americans are sick of gun violence.   A small minority, led by the lobbying arm of the NRA, opposes all gun control of any kind, regardless of how sensible it is.   That opposition is generally based on outright falsehoods.  

Demonizing gun control as "leftist" is a strategy, but it isn't the truth.    

 
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