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Mass Shootings Thread


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19 hours ago, kodycutter said:

4 arrested in denver, police feared a mass shooting event during the mlb all-star game

DENVER – Police feared a “Las Vegas-style shooting” during the All-Star Game in Denver after receiving a tip from a housekeeper working at a hotel not far from Coors Field. The hotel employee discovered more than a dozen weapons and more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition inside one of the rooms Friday night.....

big props to the housekeeper on this one.

 

But how did the housekeeper discover the cache?  I believe the group also had a fair amount of drugs.  I suppose the housekeeper doesn't need to explain why she was rifling through their stuff.  The end justifies the means.

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

I mean it's a response to my post, but that <> answering my question.   it's your m.o. though.  

you're really looking for a short yes or no answer with no thought or substance behind it aren't you ?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Caveman33 said:

But how did the housekeeper discover the cache?  I believe the group also had a fair amount of drugs.  I suppose the housekeeper doesn't need to explain why she was rifling through their stuff.  The end justifies the means.

so I'll break from true conservatives on this one ..... I think its ok to raise red flags when things don't add up

these guys were not supposed to have guns, drugs ... they walked through every law Democrats push for and looks like they were ready to kill

pro-active people stopped them - that's a good thing

 

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5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

you're really looking for a short yes or no answer with no thought or substance behind it aren't you ?

 

 

I am usually looking for an answer to the actual question I asked.  Short or long response is up to the person replying.  

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am usually looking for an answer to the actual question I asked.  Short or long response is up to the person replying.  

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-weekend-gun-violence-rapper-ambushed

A police report says the 31-year-old local rapper, whose real name was Londre Sylvester, had just been released on electronic monitoring when he was fatally shot across the street from the Cook County Jail around 8:50 p.m. Saturday in what authorities believe to be a targeted attack, Fox 32 reported.  

Sylvester was left suffering from as many as 64 bullet wounds to his head and other areas of the body, the Chicago Tribune reported. He was transported to Mount Sinai Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 9:25 p.m., according to the Cook County medical examiner's office.

 

Seriously? Shot right across the street? 

Maybe if the Democrats running Chicago would ask these criminals to stop? Or pass a law saying they can't kill someone? Maybe Democrats leading Chicago can crack down on legal citizens .... yeah, that'd work maybe huh?

or

https://www.injusticewatch.org/news/2020/lightfoot-budget-80-million-defunding-police/

Chicago mayor proposes $80M cut from police budget

 

now, if someone wants to actually LISTEN

 

https://news.wttw.com/2021/07/06/chicago-s-top-cop-says-courts-making-us-all-less-safe-after-bloody-fourth-july-weekend

hicago police Superintendent David Brown on Tuesday again pointed the finger at the criminal court system and the flow of illegal guns, rather than his own department’s strategy, after the city experienced its deadliest Fourth of July weekend in years.

At least 100 people were shot, including 18 who died, between Friday evening and Monday night in what was so far the bloodiest weekend of 2021, according to Chicago Police Department data.

During a press conference Tuesday morning, Brown repeatedly put blame on what he called an “out of control” Cook County criminal court system for “making us all less safe by releasing violent offenders” on electronic monitoring, claiming this was a major driver behind the weekend violence.

“There are too many violent offenders and too little consequences in our courts,” he said. “There are too many illegal guns in our city and too little consequences in the courts.”

 

 

BTW those "illegal" guns are really people illegally processing them, breaking existing laws to have them in their possessions. Laws, rules, ethics, morals ... the people shooting/killing have none of them and they'll continue to terrorize and do whatever they want to because they're enabled and they can

its not the guns - its the people, and its the choices those people make

 

 

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https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-gangsters-outnumber-cops-10-to-1-as-spike-in-crime-reaches-fever-pitch

Chicago gang members outnumber cops 10 to 1 as crime spike reaches fever pitch

Police retirements on track to be the largest exit in department history as citywide bloodshed explodes

It shows that between January and June, some 363 officers called it quits, and another 56 were expected to retire this month. 

Fox News’ Geraldo Rivera, citing Superintendent David Brown and Mayor Lori Lightfoot’, wrote that the city’s roughly 117,000 gang members outnumber the city’s 13,000 police officers by roughly 10 to 1. 

 

 

 

So Democrats defunding police, cops exiting workforce, porous judicial system that puts criminals right back onto the streets and gang members outnumbering police 10 to 1

and liberals/left are still saying guns are the problem

 

unbelievable isn't it? 

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what a gem of a speech by Biden

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/23/politics/biden-gun-crime-prevention-strategy/index.html

 

Quote

"I've been at this a long time, and there are things we know that work to reduce gun violence and violent crime, and things that we don't know about," Biden said

Ok Joe, if you've been at this a long time (and you have) they why are you warning for more pronounced crimes? Dude, you're the President, you've been at this a long time and if we still have massive problems .... ummm I think you're part of the problem. But lets move on to the real solutions

Quote

"But things we know about -- background checks for purchasing a firearm are important. A ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines -- no one needs to have a weapon that can fire over 30, 40, 50, even up to 100 rounds, unless you think the deer are wearing Kevlar vests or something. Community policing and programs that keep neighborhoods safe and keep folks out of trouble -- these efforts work, they save lives, but over time, these policies were gutted, are woefully underfunded."

background checks haven't changed - so why will crime go up? Many cities and a few states restrict guns that are "assault" weapons and the truth Biden refuses to discuss is very very very few people die from violence using such guns every year. So why mention them?

political agenda - nothing more, nothing less

Quote

"The Second Amendment, from the day it was passed, limited the type of people could own a gun, and what type of weapon you could own -- you couldn't buy a cannon," Biden remarked. "The point is that there's always been the ability to limit, rationally limit, the type of weapon that can be owned and who can own it."

you old geezer ..... the military of the USA had the same guns as the people hunting deer. A canon isn't a gun. Back when you Joe Biden were in school, you could buy a gun at 16 years old, carry it to school, you could buy ammo .... its not the gun Joe, and you know it ... its the people

Quote

"If you willfully sell a gun to someone who is prohibited from possessing it, if you willfully fail to run a background check, if you willfully falsify a record, if you willfully fail to cooperate with the tracing requests or inspections, my message to you is this: We'll find you and we'll seek your license to sell guns," Biden said.

Joe, again ... that's not the problem. The Fed Govt doesn't prosecute anyone failing background checks. They just don't. If they get the licenses of a few dealers ... that's not going to do a dang thing about violent people

good gawd Joe - you're not tackling the core problem. You haven't in 40 years.

 

 

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more news - the DC Ballpark "shootings" .... lol

https://crimegrade.org/violent-crime-washington-dc-metro/

 

every NIGHT there are shootings within a close distance to that park - last night it was just a bit closer

 

Biden and the Democrat leaders have been saying they're going to stop violence for what, 40-50 years?  How's the same old same old working ?

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2 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Three different mass shootings in a six hour span in Chicago last night.  They outdid themselves.  
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1274706

"The Justice Department this week is launching an effort in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., to reduce surging gun violence by addressing illegal trafficking and prosecuting offenses that help put guns in the hands of criminals."

 

FYI illegal gun trafficking isn't the problem - the violent people are the problem but nobody wants to address that :( and until they do, violence will continue

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24 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

"The Justice Department this week is launching an effort in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., to reduce surging gun violence by addressing illegal trafficking and prosecuting offenses that help put guns in the hands of criminals."

 

FYI illegal gun trafficking isn't the problem - the violent people are the problem but nobody wants to address that :( and until they do, violence will continue

The party bus shooting is pretty disturbing, that is in one of the nicer parts of the city.  Hope they are out of ammo when I come in to town Sunday.

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1 hour ago, -fish- said:

glad they're cracking down on illegal gun trafficking.  who wouldn't want that?  

Its equivalent to a national effort at a Federal Level to address drunk driving by aggressively attacking the people who sell alcohol to underage people.

Everyone would support that - and everyone would also realize it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference on the numbers of drunk driving.

 

I can just see Chicago gang members going to their fav FFL dealer who's selling them guns under the table and when they learn they can't get them there anymore, they just stop being violent. Just like that, violent people are stopped.

Of course, its illegal to do that thing anyway, I imagine the few people doing it are not going to get caught, or they'll find another way around to make it happen

And in the meantime, Chicago gang members, thugs and druggers continue killing and Democrats continue to be baffled as to the solution.

Fascinating they can't see the core problem and address it

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6 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

"The Justice Department this week is launching an effort in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., to reduce surging gun violence by addressing illegal trafficking and prosecuting offenses that help put guns in the hands of criminals."

FYI illegal gun trafficking isn't the problem - the violent people are the problem but nobody wants to address that :( and until they do, violence will continue

It’s a joke how much denial they are in.  All this crime and violence in Democratic cities, all with strong gun control comparatively, and after years of demonizing and demoralizing the police.  And their conclusion on the spike?  Illegal trafficking of guns??  Omg how dumb can you get.

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34 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

It’s a joke how much denial they are in.  All this crime and violence in Democratic cities, all with strong gun control comparatively, and after years of demonizing and demoralizing the police.  And their conclusion on the spike?  Illegal trafficking of guns??  Omg how dumb can you get.

Well, they're Democrats.  THEY are the problem.

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42 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

It’s a joke how much denial they are in.  All this crime and violence in Democratic cities, all with strong gun control comparatively, and after years of demonizing and demoralizing the police.  And their conclusion on the spike?  Illegal trafficking of guns??  Omg how dumb can you get.

Quote

 

The U.S. Department of Justice today launched five cross-jurisdictional strike forces to help reduce gun violence by disrupting illegal firearms trafficking in key regions across the country. Leveraging existing resources, the regional strike forces will better ensure sustained and focused coordination across jurisdictions and help stem the supply of illegally trafficked firearms from source cities, through other communities, and into five key market regions: New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, the San Francisco Bay Area/Sacramento Region and Washington, D.C.

Each strike force region will be led by designated United States Attorneys, who will collaborate with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) and with state and local law enforcement partners within their own jurisdiction (where firearms are used in crimes) as well as law enforcement partners in areas where illegally trafficked guns originate. These officials will use the latest data, evidence, and intelligence from crime scenes to identify patterns, leads, and potential suspects in violent gun crimes.

“All too often, guns found at crime scenes come from hundreds or even thousands of miles away. We are redoubling our efforts as ATF works with law enforcement to track the movement of illegal firearms used in violent crimes. These strike forces enable sustained coordination across multiple jurisdictions to help disrupt the worst gun trafficking corridors,” said Attorney General Merrick B. Garland. “The Department of Justice will use all of its tools – enforcement, prevention, intervention, and investment – to help ensure the safety of our communities – the department’s highest priority.”

The strike forces represent one important, concrete step in implementing the Department’s Comprehensive Violent Crime Reduction Strategy, which was announced on May 26, 2021. The comprehensive strategy supports local communities in preventing, investigating, and prosecuting gun violence and other violent crime—and requires U.S. Attorneys’ offices to work with federal, state, local and tribal law enforcement, as well as the communities they serve, to address the most significant drivers of violence in their districts. In guidance to federal agents and prosecutors as part of that comprehensive strategy, the Deputy Attorney General made clear that firearms traffickers providing weapons to violent offenders are an enforcement priority across the country. 

 

90% of gun crimes in NYC involved guns bought elsewhere and illegally trafficked.

Nationwide (regardless of whether a city is led by Republicans or Democrats) the majority of guns used in crimes were obtained through illegal sales or theft.

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Trying to read more on Chicago.  Found THIS articles for starters that I thought had some good info.  

 

We’ve got to recognize that the year and a half that we’ve gone through is unprecedented,” said David Olsen, a co-director for the Center for Criminal Justice Research, Policy and Practice at Loyola University Chicago.

Olsen said he was concerned about the pressure on elected officials to find a solution fast while ignoring crime’s underlying causes.

“The places where we're seeing the highest rates of homicide and shootings are the same communities that we have over the last 30 or 40 years – primarily the communities that are most economically disadvantaged and most racially segregated,” Olsen said.

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16 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am not familiar with the geography of Chicago.   Is most of this violence located in certain areas?  Is it branching out to the 'burbs?  

https://www.centerforilpolitics.org/articles/weve-got-the-rap-of-being-the-most-violent-city-in-the-nation-heres-a-detailed-look-at-why-and-our-best-way-out

the reality in Chicago is the poorer neighborhoods are the ones that have drugs, gangs and violence. 

I see a massive irony when people discuss for pages and pages how I need to get a shot for covid19 to do what's best for my community and society .... but nobody wants to discuss really the true problems in these core areas of violence. its the drugs, its the gangs .... those are the problems and they need eradicated

I'd hazard that 90% or even 95% of the people in those areas are good people - simply overshadowed by the criminals/thugs that are in gangs and on drugs

Quote

There are more than 100,000 gang members in Chicago, the city's top cop said Wednesday, hours after a shooting at a funeral, believed to be gang retaliation, left 15 people wounded. In total, Supt. David Brown said, there are 117,000 gang members, who are part of the city's 55 known gangs.Jul 22, 2020

That's crazy isn't it? but its been allowed and its my opinion Demcorats and liberals have a huge responsibility in allowing it because they've led the city of Chicago for decades to this point right now

 

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12 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Trying to read more on Chicago.  Found THIS articles for starters that I thought had some good info.  

 

We’ve got to recognize that the year and a half that we’ve gone through is unprecedented,” said David Olsen, a co-director for the Center for Criminal Justice Research, Policy and Practice at Loyola University Chicago.

Olsen said he was concerned about the pressure on elected officials to find a solution fast while ignoring crime’s underlying causes.

“The places where we're seeing the highest rates of homicide and shootings are the same communities that we have over the last 30 or 40 years – primarily the communities that are most economically disadvantaged and most racially segregated,” Olsen said.

 

Lightfoot is a liar and will say/pump anything she can to look good - she's a politician, that's what they do. That's a 15-20 year trend referenced, she was elected in 2019 ... typical 

I also hate this blaming of a virus for people killing others. People are killing others because they're violent/evil ... don't blame a virus of a mask mandate or a shutdown. Those things didn't pull a trigger

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24 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

https://www.centerforilpolitics.org/articles/weve-got-the-rap-of-being-the-most-violent-city-in-the-nation-heres-a-detailed-look-at-why-and-our-best-way-out

the reality in Chicago is the poorer neighborhoods are the ones that have drugs, gangs and violence. 

I see a massive irony when people discuss for pages and pages how I need to get a shot for covid19 to do what's best for my community and society .... but nobody wants to discuss really the true problems in these core areas of violence. its the drugs, its the gangs .... those are the problems and they need eradicated

I'd hazard that 90% or even 95% of the people in those areas are good people - simply overshadowed by the criminals/thugs that are in gangs and on drugs

That's crazy isn't it? but its been allowed and its my opinion Demcorats and liberals have a huge responsibility in allowing it because they've led the city of Chicago for decades to this point right now

 

Not sure how many times people in here need to post about that very thing and bring it up before you stop posting the bolded.   One thing you seem to leave out is poverty as well.  So I will say for the upteenth time - we need to focus on the War on Drugs, poverty, education, jobs in these areas.  (as well as what the main topic of this thread is about - guns).  

This is the case everywhere - crime increases as those factors increase.   So how do you parse out what you feel are Democratic policies vs. that is the trend that happens in all cities with those problems? 

 

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23 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

Lightfoot is a liar and will say/pump anything she can to look good - she's a politician, that's what they do. That's a 15-20 year trend referenced, she was elected in 2019 ... typical 

I also hate this blaming of a virus for people killing others. People are killing others because they're violent/evil ... don't blame a virus of a mask mandate or a shutdown. Those things didn't pull a trigger

The way you frame that reads like you are saying that you think people are saying that COVID makes people violent or something.   What it did is effect our economy, especially in the already poor neighborhoods, and gets people prone to this stuff at home in bad situations with not much to do.  I wouldn't be surprised if gang activity rose as a result - I wonder if there was a rise in 15-18 year olds participating in this as they got taken out of school and put back home in probably not great situations.   Maybe not though.  

So we know that crime rising statistically follows poverty, we fought about COVID shutdowns and restrictions because it effected the economy, our lives, and incomes - but you think it's wrong to say that a rise in crime would correlate with COVID and what we went through for the past year +?

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53 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Not sure how many times people in here need to post about that very thing and bring it up before you stop posting the bolded.   One thing you seem to leave out is poverty as well.  So I will say for the upteenth time - we need to focus on the War on Drugs, poverty, education, jobs in these areas.  (as well as what the main topic of this thread is about - guns).  

This is the case everywhere - crime increases as those factors increase.   So how do you parse out what you feel are Democratic policies vs. that is the trend that happens in all cities with those problems? 

 

I parse it out easy enough - Democrats are the touch touchy feely party that hates law abiding people protecting themselves with guns. Democrats are numb to personal responsibility and they lobby to send social workers in to situations that police should be handling. The entire Defund Police is Democrats. Let drug offenders out early, abolish death penalty, go easy on criminals to the point you can literally walk into a store, shop lift all you can carry (STEALING is what it is) and walk out and nobody says a word to you. Democrats are the party of when there is police incident, riot/loot and burn down city blocks and its encouraged. 

I read an article the other day - what do you think about this ?

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-obama-hillary-democratic-party-victor-davis-hanson

I thought some of those stats were very interesting considering Democrats lead the nations big cities - the very cities where crime is rampant, poverty is all over and struggles abound.

Rich people telling the poor they'll help them - decade after decade and to me? Decades of failure

 

I grew up in poverty - we wasn't criminals, stealing and doing drugs and killing people etc

That's a choice - its not a annual income perk 

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54 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

The way you frame that reads like you are saying that you think people are saying that COVID makes people violent or something.   What it did is effect our economy, especially in the already poor neighborhoods, and gets people prone to this stuff at home in bad situations with not much to do.  I wouldn't be surprised if gang activity rose as a result - I wonder if there was a rise in 15-18 year olds participating in this as they got taken out of school and put back home in probably not great situations.   Maybe not though.  

So we know that crime rising statistically follows poverty, we fought about COVID shutdowns and restrictions because it effected the economy, our lives, and incomes - but you think it's wrong to say that a rise in crime would correlate with COVID and what we went through for the past year +?

you might be right on the gang recruits during covid - another negative to the shutdowns that Democrats pushed for :(

I think a rise in crime overall did happen - but never ever forget personal responsibility in choosing to do those things. Ultimately that's the core problem - people have lost morality and ethics. Another thing I blame Democrats for are the attacks on God and Christianity, the wedges they drive between people, the encouragement of single mom homes, abortion, the destruction of family values etc. All passed as "progressive" but to me, we are NOT progressing as humans, we're seriously regressing

 

Everyone goes through something - the choices they make during those trials are theirs and theirs alone. Sure, circumstances matter, but ultimately choices are chosen - that's personal responsibility

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42 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I parse it out easy enough - Democrats are the touch touchy feely party that hates law abiding people protecting themselves with guns. Democrats are numb to personal responsibility and they lobby to send social workers in to situations that police should be handling. The entire Defund Police is Democrats. Let drug offenders out early, abolish death penalty, go easy on criminals to the point you can literally walk into a store, shop lift all you can carry (STEALING is what it is) and walk out and nobody says a word to you. Democrats are the party of when there is police incident, riot/loot and burn down city blocks and its encouraged. 

I read an article the other day - what do you think about this ?

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-obama-hillary-democratic-party-victor-davis-hanson

I thought some of those stats were very interesting considering Democrats lead the nations big cities - the very cities where crime is rampant, poverty is all over and struggles abound.

Rich people telling the poor they'll help them - decade after decade and to me? Decades of failure

 

I grew up in poverty - we wasn't criminals, stealing and doing drugs and killing people etc

That's a choice - its not a annual income perk 

I will read that after work.   

All I read is Dems this and Dems that.  Are R lead big cities that much better on crime?  What specific policies do people think the Republican party has to offer that would help this?

I get it, you were poor.  My family didn't have a ton either.  That said, I was reading a book I am 1/2 way through the other day titled Gang Leader for a Day.  Basically it's a college kid who got in with a gang in Chicago and documented his time with them.  Anyway, my type of poor was nowhere near that type of poor that was described in that book.  I am guessing it wasn't what you experienced either, but that's a guess.   Yes, it's still a choice but I try to put myself in others shoes, and it still doesn't change the fact that the stats show just that - increase poverty/increase crime.  Neither of us got to the point where we were desperate enough to go down that road, but reading that put in perspective and got me wondering how long I would resist in those conditions.  

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48 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

you might be right on the gang recruits during covid - another negative to the shutdowns that Democrats pushed for :(

I think a rise in crime overall did happen - but never ever forget personal responsibility in choosing to do those things. Ultimately that's the core problem - people have lost morality and ethics. Another thing I blame Democrats for are the attacks on God and Christianity, the wedges they drive between people, the encouragement of single mom homes, abortion, the destruction of family values etc. All passed as "progressive" but to me, we are NOT progressing as humans, we're seriously regressing

 

Everyone goes through something - the choices they make during those trials are theirs and theirs alone. Sure, circumstances matter, but ultimately choices are chosen - that's personal responsibility

You have interesting lines of when personal responsibility comes in and when it doesn't.  We talk about extreme poverty and you say that's not an excuse to do something bad.   Then you turn around and seem to be saying that choices people are making can all be blamed on Dem policies?     Just find it odd.   

It's all over the place and in all walks of life.   I was looking at stats about fatherhood, and the article was talking about how black fathers were more likely to spend a few meals a week with their kids than white fathers were, even though the %s were higher for white families to have both parents in the home.   Just like you talk about the erosion of the family unit in black communities, how about the rest of us chasing the almighty buck or having to work 2 jobs and not having time with the kids?  How about the Christians hiding rampant cases of predators - how many families and kids did that destroy?   I know personal experiences and all, but most of our family issues were because of my highly religious Lutheran side of the family not talking to family because of: sexuality/trans, just not marrying a Lutheran, etc.  All conservatives, all Christian, all helping breaking up families.  

Long story short, the finger pointing and blame gets old after awhile. 

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From the Tennessean, which is ranked as a unbiased, reliable source by multiple media checkers:

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On social media and in political speeches, some Republicans and pro-police groups say last year's calls to slash spending on law enforcement have led to a dramatic rise in killings in cities overseen by Democrats.

The increases they cite are real, and several big cities did make cuts to police spending. But the reductions were mostly modest, and the same big increases in homicides are being seen nationwide — even in cities that increased police spending. At the same time, the rates for burglaries, drug offenses and many other types of crime are down in many cities across the country.

 

Quote

Yet homicide rates are also increasing in cities that didn't cut spending.

In Houston, a city led by a Democratic mayor, killings have increased, but so, too, has funding for police.

Nashville, Tennessee, also led by a Democratic mayor, increased the police budget but has seen homicides spike 50% so far this year over last.

Tulsa, Oklahoma, and Fresno, California, have also seen more killings so far in 2021. Both cities have Republican mayors.

Meanwhile, other types of crime are down, according to preliminary statistics and researchers who say crime initially dropped around the world after the pandemic began. While cities are reporting jumps in their homicide rate, there's been no similar increase in other crimes, like burglaries, robberies or drug offenses.

That's not what you'd expect if calls to defund the police were leading to a rash of crime, Abrams said.

"Any theory explaining the rise in homicides would also have to explain why we haven't seen a spike in other kinds of crimes," he said.

As expected, once you look beyond the social media/political outrage and dig into actual facts, you get a more complicated  picture that's showing a similar pattern of increased homicides and decreased crime...not just nationally but worldwide.   Completely guts both the "defund the police" and "democrat led cities" arguments.  

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20 hours ago, -fish- said:

Completely guts both the "defund the police" and "democrat led cities" arguments.  

Baltimore and Chicago and other cities strongly disagree

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On 7/22/2021 at 7:35 PM, the rover said:

90% of gun crimes in NYC involved guns bought elsewhere and illegally trafficked.

Nationwide (regardless of whether a city is led by Republicans or Democrats) the majority of guns used in crimes were obtained through illegal sales or theft.

So the 2nd Amendment isn't the problem?  Man, the blue team is gonna hate that.

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On 7/23/2021 at 8:40 AM, Stealthycat said:

 

Lightfoot is a liar and will say/pump anything she can to look good - she's a politician, that's what they do. That's a 15-20 year trend referenced, she was elected in 2019 ... typical 

Newsom just referenced a 30 year trend.  They'll go as far back as needed to find a point at which they can draw a negative slope.

Gaslighting at its finest.

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10 minutes ago, Sand said:

Newsom just referenced a 30 year trend.  They'll go as far back as needed to find a point at which they can draw a negative slope.

Gaslighting at its finest.

It's not relevant to see an overall decrease in crime over the decades?  Not sure why people wouldn't look at both and compare them.  0 surprise that one would focus on the longed trends and one would focus on the 1-2 year uptick.  

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20 minutes ago, Sand said:

So the 2nd Amendment isn't the problem?  Man, the blue team is gonna hate that.

Why do people have to purposely misstate everything?   Gun violence has a lot of issues tied to it.   

Illegal gun trafficking is one factor in gun violence.  Strangely enough, the people who are against gun control laws are also against increased effort to control illegal gun trafficking, even though it wouldn't effect any "law abiding citizens."

Yep, the Supreme Court's interpretations of the Second Amendment contribute to the problem...but since that has nothing whatsoever to do with illegal gun sales, I fail to see why you would bring it up.  

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

It's not relevant to see an overall decrease in crime over the decades?  Not sure why people wouldn't look at both and compare them.  0 surprise that one would focus on the longed trends and one would focus on the 1-2 year uptick.  

Oh, we know the routine with all politicians - deflect, deflect, deflect.  Newsom chose that timeframe and coincidentally ignored the short time frame to make his comparison.  For a guy like him what matters is what happens inside his term, not in 1974.

 

1 hour ago, the rover said:

Why do people have to purposely misstate everything?   Gun violence has a lot of issues tied to it.   

Illegal gun trafficking is one factor in gun violence.  Strangely enough, the people who are against gun control laws are also against increased effort to control illegal gun trafficking, even though it wouldn't effect any "law abiding citizens."

I was just poking the beast there.  Put me down as someone who also wants to crack down on gun trafficking.  If I may poke the beast again, this also means refraining from our government supplying cartels with guns, i.e. Fast and Furious.  

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50 minutes ago, Sand said:

Oh, we know the routine with all politicians - deflect, deflect, deflect.  Newsom chose that timeframe and coincidentally ignored the short time frame to make his comparison.  For a guy like him what matters is what happens inside his term, not in 1974.

Sure, but people are doing it in here and elsewhere too from the opposite way - don't give a D run city credit for crime steadily going down - just point and focus on the last couple years to show how D run cities are terrible.   Both are right, but each side just brings up one part, because --- Sides!! 

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

Sure, but people are doing it in here and elsewhere too from the opposite way - don't give a D run city credit for crime steadily going down - just point and focus on the last couple years to show how D run cities are terrible.   Both are right, but each side just brings up one part, because --- Sides!! 

Violent deaths have been generally decreasing since we have been able to track.  Way, way before the US existed.  I don't give these politicians credit for following a 2000 year trend.  I do care about the reversion to a higher violent death rate under their purview.

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16 hours ago, Sand said:

Violent deaths have been generally decreasing since we have been able to track.  Way, way before the US existed.  I don't give these politicians credit for following a 2000 year trend.  I do care about the reversion to a higher violent death rate under their purview.

This is my favorite post in this entire thread.   Kudos.   

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1 hour ago, the rover said:

This is my favorite post in this entire thread.   Kudos.   

I've been waiting a long time to break out that statistic.  I humbly thank Karma for giving me the opening.

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Remington's insurers just offered $33 million to settle with some of the Sandy Hook families in the illegal marketing case.   This was on the heels of Remington losing another motion to dismiss the case.   The weird thing is the settlement offer was filed with the court, so it's strategic...if the families don't do better at trial, they could owe attorney's fees.   So they need to balance the fact that it's probably a $100 million+ case if they win against the guaranteed money.

Remington's bankrupt so it's all insurance money anyway, but a judgment against a gun manufacturer would be huge.   

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17 hours ago, the rover said:

Remington's insurers just offered $33 million to settle with some of the Sandy Hook families in the illegal marketing case.   This was on the heels of Remington losing another motion to dismiss the case.   The weird thing is the settlement offer was filed with the court, so it's strategic...if the families don't do better at trial, they could owe attorney's fees.   So they need to balance the fact that it's probably a $100 million+ case if they win against the guaranteed money.

Remington's bankrupt so it's all insurance money anyway, but a judgment against a gun manufacturer would be huge.   

 

And of course one of the reasons they are bankrupt is the class action lawsuit for the faulty trigger on the model 700 series, which they continued to sell for decades after it became clear it was dangerous.  

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On 7/23/2021 at 8:35 AM, Stealthycat said:

I see a massive irony when people discuss for pages and pages how I need to get a shot for covid19 to do what's best for my community and society .... but nobody wants to discuss really the true problems in these core areas of violence. its the drugs, its the gangs .... those are the problems and they need eradicated

Just because you don't like or approve of the policies meant to address these issues doesn't mean that they haven't been discussed here quite often.  You want to double down on policing these communities  ("eradicated"), others have other ideas.  

ETA-July 23rd?   Oh well somehow I time warped back in time.  See that most of this fib has been addressed already, but I'll leave this here anyway.

Edited by Bottomfeeder Sports
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