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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Nobody needs these weapons. Nobody has a right to these weapons

actually I have a right to them, you do too

will we see laws removing those rights? possibly do ........... but right now, you DO have that right

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Wow. A bunch of people die from a madman with a gun, but hey, it's only about the same amount that have died from lightning, so no biggie holy ####

Mass shootings affect a far larger number of people than just those that are actually injured and killed. It traumatizes everyone present. It traumatizes first responders who are involved. It traumati

I'm just surprised that they allow you to mail-in your license application.  With all the supposed mail fraud going on.

1 minute ago, fields said:

Catching up on the thread, what it the hell does this have to with thread?

Just a really bad analogy or comparison at the beginning of the thread to get the ball rolling.

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1 minute ago, Chaz McNulty said:

Just a really bad analogy or comparison at the beginning of the thread to get the ball rolling.

usually it's drunk drivers.  NRA must have updated its website on how to argue against gun control.

Edited by -fish-
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I know ya'll hate analogies, comparisons and what if's but

if you are willing to impact 30 million gun owners who've done nothing wrong to stop 20-30 people every year from using those same type guns in order to save maybe 200-300 lives

would you also ban other things from 30 million American's from buying say, alcohol with the goal of stopping thousands from driving drunk and saving thousands of lives?

 

what is the true goal ? if its saving a few hundred lives ..... gawd we can ban sugar and save tens of thousands, alcohol too, ban tobacco and save literally a half million !!!

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13 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

weapons change absolutely and we'd not "tried nothing"  -   violent crimes have went down consistently for 2 decades now right? and in those 10-20 years, we've added TENS OF MILLIONS of legal guns to law abiding people

we are NOT the problem

we HAVE hundreds of roadblocks in place - you think more will help ?

that's insanity - doing the same things and expecting different results !

 

 

Yet nothing that stops the shooters from easily and most often legally obtain the same guns every time. What roadblocks did this shooter run into?

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

I know ya'll hate analogies, comparisons and what if's but

if you are willing to impact 30 million gun owners who've done nothing wrong to stop 20-30 people every year from using those same type guns in order to save maybe 200-300 lives

would you also ban other things from 30 million American's from buying say, alcohol with the goal of stopping thousands from driving drunk and saving thousands of lives?

 

what is the true goal ? if its saving a few hundred lives ..... gawd we can ban sugar and save tens of thousands, alcohol too, ban tobacco and save literally a half million !!!

Yawn.   Alcohol is heavily regulated and significant measures have been put into place to lower the incidence of drunk driving, including harsher penalties, interlock devices, suspensions, insurance requirements and increased sentencing.

Just stop with this garbage.

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11 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

is that your Constitutional Right ? 

 

I'm from Canada, so I am not clear on what's in your constitution, but it surprised me if there weren't a section in there about voting rights.  Maybe an amendment?

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11 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

is that your Constitutional Right ? 

 

as a gun owner, I have already "given" .......... I pay high taxes to buy guns and ammunition. I background check, I have a concealed weapons permit. I'm not allowed to own a multitude of different guns and accessories. I'm not allowed to take my guns in many places. I follow all the game laws pertaining to my guns

why would the tens of millions of people like me be targeted by gun bans ?

 

look, here is what the anti-gunners won't admit to

ban "assault" weapons today, and in 6 months where wacko's are using handguns to kill 10-20 people .... they'll say hey look what great progress we made with banning peoples "assault' weapons ... now lets ban handguns.  Then, wacko's will figure out buckshot and semi-auto shotguns do massive damage in close range ... and when they use those, Democrats will want to ban those to

ban, ban, ban, focus on legal people .............. ignore the criminals and wacko's out there

 

and never, ever EVER miss the chance to capitalize on a tragedy and for that, every one of ya'll should be ashamed at using what happened in Boulder for political gain

Wait, you acknowledge that there are certain guns and accessories that you’re not allowed to buy, yet adding to that list is the end of the world and a destruction of your rights?

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5 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

Yet nothing that stops the shooters from easily and most often legally obtain the same guns every time. What roadblocks did this shooter run into?

actually most don't get their guns legally IIRC

what roadblocks indeed - we'll know more in the coming days, but we DO live in a free society where citizens are expected to NOT do wrong things right ?

I mean do level of policing would you like to see to place roadblocks in front of wacko's ?

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6 minutes ago, -fish- said:

Yawn.   Alcohol is heavily regulated and significant measures have been put into place to lower the incidence of drunk driving, including harsher penalties, interlock devices, suspensions, insurance requirements and increased sentencing.

Just stop with this garbage.

and yet, tens of thousands dead by drunk drivers every year is the result of your "heavily regulate" 

guns are heavily regulated as well in comparison - and significant measures have been put into place to lower the incidence of shootings, misuse etc including background checks, age limits, harsher penalties, gun locks, education, sentencing and then the basic core lessons of "don't kill people" that should be echoed universally.  

 

Just stop with that garbage.

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5 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

Wait, you acknowledge that there are certain guns and accessories that you’re not allowed to buy, yet adding to that list is the end of the world and a destruction of your rights?

common sense would say don't ban my turkey hunting shotgun or my varmint hunting rifle or my sidearm that I use when hunting bear country but ... those are targeted as "assault" weapons as Democrats continually redefine what is and isn't on this list

I've given enough as a gun owner - I'd like to see crack downs on criminals please. The hundreds of laws we have stops all but a very very VERY few wacko's from doing mass shootings

Gun owners are NOT the problem

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1 hour ago, -jb- said:

Currently...

CNN - Biden pushes for stronger gun laws

Fox - Biden calls for gun ban

And a few days ago:

White guy with mental illness of sex addiction kills 6 at Asian businesses - "Fears of Anti-Asian hatred" and "rooted in white supremacy"

Now:

Muslim guy with mental illness kills 10 random people - "Mental Illness"

 

Amazing how the tone and wordage used change so dramatically.

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14 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

common sense would say don't ban my turkey hunting shotgun or my varmint hunting rifle or my sidearm that I use when hunting bear country but ... those are targeted as "assault" weapons as Democrats continually redefine what is and isn't on this list

I've given enough as a gun owner - I'd like to see crack downs on criminals please. The hundreds of laws we have stops all but a very very VERY few wacko's from doing mass shootings

Gun owners are NOT the problem

What did you do during the previous assault weapon ban? Sorry for not identifying the clear victims of mass shootings, gun owners. Oh no, you might have to wait a few extra days to get your 39th gun, how will you survive?

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14 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

actually most don't get their guns legally IIRC

what roadblocks indeed - we'll know more in the coming days, but we DO live in a free society where citizens are expected to NOT do wrong things right ?

I mean do level of policing would you like to see to place roadblocks in front of wacko's ?

You don't recall correctly, because this is a false statement that you just made up.   But facts never get in your way.

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6 minutes ago, Sand said:

And a few days ago:

White guy with mental illness of sex addiction kills 6 at Asian businesses - "Fears of Anti-Asian hatred" and "rooted in white supremacy"

Now:

Muslim guy with mental illness kills 10 random people - "Mental Illness"

 

Amazing how the tone and wordage used change so dramatically.

agreed.

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

I just remember a back and forth with SC about this a couple years ago.   Again, I don't know where you live but as we dug into stats - area,demographics, etc...  the chance of something like that happening is pretty damn low.    If I remember right burglary stats usually list all types of buildings - garages, hotels, offices, etc...    And when you start adding in factors like while people are home, the area they live, if they aren't involved in dealing drugs,  if they have any sort of other deterrent (alarm, dog, etc..) and the odds are ridiculously low.     

I was not saying that it's equal to your odds of a mass shooting, just saying that just like with other things your fear might not add up to the statistical reality.  

ETA:  The FBI site had 1.2 M buglaries total in 2019.  Again, that's a wide net of structures broken into. 

 Believe me I thought long and hard before buying a gun.  I used to be as anti-gun as one could be.  I have a concealed carry license so if I thought there was a reasonable risk of a mass shooting I’d holster up.  But I’ve already decided my gun is staying put where it is, right next to my bed.

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5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

common sense would say don't ban my turkey hunting shotgun or my varmint hunting rifle or my sidearm that I use when hunting bear country but ... those are targeted as "assault" weapons as Democrats continually redefine what is and isn't on this list

I've given enough as a gun owner - I'd like to see crack downs on criminals please. The hundreds of laws we have stops all but a very very VERY few wacko's from doing mass shootings

Gun owners are NOT the problem

If there were 50 shootings next weekend in Chicago, how much outrage will there be?  Next to none outside of the involved parties.  No doubt the mass shootings in Boulder was a tragedy, but Chicago has 30-75 shootings every weekend.  Boulder was a random shooting, most of Chicago's are intent.  Now the big difference is the gun.  It seems like most of these mass murderers are legal gun owners and use assault-style while chicago uses handguns.  A lot of the guns used in chicago are not registered to the user, they are stolen.  

I don't have the answer as I'm not a gun owner, but support the right to own one.  I'm probably like Tim in what styles should be legal, just don't know enough about them.  Somehow there is a disconnect in how these people are buying them.  

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5 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

If the guns aren’t available for them to buy

 

What did you do during the previous assault weapon ban? Sorry for not identifying the clear victims of mass shootings, gun owners. Oh no, you might have to wait a few extra days to get your 39th gun, how will you survive?

No assault weapons ban at either the state or federal level has involved confiscation.   Previously owned weapons were always exempt.  He is well aware that his argument that they're going to take his son's turkey gun is an outright falsehood, but his arguments are just regurgitation of NRA propaganda.  Once he's done with alcohol, drunk driving and cigarettes he'll start providing anecdotal evidence of "good guys with guns" saving the day, despite the statistics to the contrary. 

Then he'll start citing John Lott and his debunked studies.

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13 minutes ago, Sand said:

And a few days ago:

White guy with mental illness of sex addiction kills 6 at Asian businesses - "Fears of Anti-Asian hatred" and "rooted in white supremacy"

Now:

Muslim guy with mental illness kills 10 random people - "Mental Illness"

 

Amazing how the tone and wordage used change so dramatically.

MSM

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

statistically ?

On average, there are 433,648 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year in the United States.1

every 73 seconds someone is sexually assaulted

1 of 6 women has been victims of rape or attempted rape

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

 

women should be well trained and armed - every single woman IMO

Guns in the home are particularly dangerous for victims of domestic violence. The presence of a gun in a home with a history of domestic violence increases the risk that a woman will be killed by 500 percent.

Glad you're so concerned about women's safety.   I'm sure you're in favor of preventing stalkers and those convicted of domestic violence from owning guns.   And you certainly wouldn't want them owning guns, since it's far more likely that gun is twice as likely to be stolen as it is to be used for self defense. 

 

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3 minutes ago, -fish- said:

No assault weapons ban at either the state or federal level has involved confiscation.   Previously owned weapons were always exempt.  He is well aware that his argument that they're going to take his son's turkey gun is an outright falsehood, but his arguments are just regurgitation of NRA propaganda.  Once he's done with alcohol, drunk driving and cigarettes he'll start providing anecdotal evidence of "good guys with guns" saving the day, despite the statistics to the contrary. 

Then he'll start citing John Lott and his debunked studies.

All of this is true. And it won’t slow him down a bit. 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

 I don’t believe that @Opieor anyone else that is currently law abiding is going to be willing to become a criminal to keep them. Let’s get rid of them and have a safer society. 

Once again...you are wrong and attempting to tell me how I should think and live.
Ya know...the absolute, #1 reason that I can't stand the Left is because they just cannot live with anyone having a difference of opinion. It is their life's work to tell everyone how they should think and act. 

Those on the Right don't do that. We spend our time telling you to leave us alone. Do you even notice that?

I have a better idea....how about you live your life and I'll live mine...complete with all of my inalienable rights.
Keep in mind that those rights are not granted to me by the US Govt. They are not a gift. 
They are mine and the Government shall not infringe on those rights.
What is so hard to understand?
Why are you so anxious to give up what is yours and force me to give up what is mine, simply because someone tells us that we should?  And if we don't agree....they will take them or force us to be criminals?

Why do you insist on trying to make people believe as you do?
You don't want a gun....don't get one. Isn't that the battle cry for abortions?

Edited by Opie
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Let's try some serious gun reform, with PSAs non-stop, for, say, 50 years and see where we are.  

If you'd told 1965 that smoking would be cut by 2/3rds in 2018 no one would have believed you.

If you'd told 1982 that drunk driving deaths would decrease by 50%+ over the next 30 years, same thing.

We're not powerless to stop guns from killing people.  The first step is to stop listening to people with who say it can't be done.  

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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14 minutes ago, Opie said:

Once again...you are wrong and attempting to tell me how I should think and live.
Ya know...the absolute, #1 reason that I can't stand the Left is because they just cannot live with anyone having a difference of opinion. It is their life's work to tell everyone how they should think and act. 

Those on the Right don't do that. We spend our time telling you to leave us alone. Do you even notice that?

I have a better idea....how about you live your life and I'll live mine...complete with all of my inalienable rights.
Keep in mind that those rights are not granted to me by the US Govt. They are not a gift. 
They are mine and the Government shall not infringe on those rights.
What is so hard to understand?
Why are you so anxious to give up what is yours and force me to give up what is mine, simply because someone tells us that we should?  And if we don't agree....they will take them or force us to be criminals?

Why do you insist on trying to make people believe as you do?
You don't want a gun....don't get one. Isn't that the battle cry for abortions?

I guess you never noticed Tim's last post about abortion.  I think you would be very surprised at how much the Right tries to tell the Left.  Off the top of my head we have Abortion, smoking weed, voting by mail, euthanasia.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Actually we already know the results, because we had an assault rifle ban for nearly ten years. It was imperfect, ill-defined according to the silly objection of some people who always demand is to “tell me what an assault weapon is!”. And yet it worked in reducing mass shooting violence. There were still mass shootings, like Columbine, but when the bad guys are stuck using pistols and regular rifles, the casualties go way down. We KNOW this. That’s why all their arguments that you can do just as much damage with Grandpa’s pea-shooter as you can with an M4- its all garbage. 
Nobody needs these weapons. Nobody has a right to these weapons. And I don’t believe that @Opieor anyone else that is currently law abiding is going to be willing to become a criminal to keep them. Let’s get rid of them and have a safer society. 

Link?  I like your posts but you don’t provide a lot of links. 

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37 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

 Believe me I thought long and hard before buying a gun.  I used to be as anti-gun as one could be.  I have a concealed carry license so if I thought there was a reasonable risk of a mass shooting I’d holster up.  But I’ve already decided my gun is staying put where it is, right next to my bed.

I am sure you did.   Just pointing out the similarities in thinking and chances of something happening.   

As much as I see ads for cameras, alarms, and the such you'd think that 1/2 of us have our houses broken into or something.  

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According to the Washington Post the country had been averaging about 7 mass shootings a year since 2012.  And we have news anchors saying that “people aren’t safe in America”.  Follow the science.

Edited by ekbeats
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40 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

I guess you never noticed Tim's last post about abortion.  I think you would be very surprised at how much the Right tries to tell the Left.  Off the top of my head we have Abortion, smoking weed, voting by mail, euthanasia.

Eh - you picked four completely disparate subjects to make a point.  Honestly, only the first one in that list tends to be a hard line.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

Actually we already know the results, because we had an assault rifle ban for nearly ten years. It was imperfect, ill-defined according to the silly objection of some people who always demand is to “tell me what an assault weapon is!”. And yet it worked in reducing mass shooting violence. There were still mass shootings, like Columbine, but when the bad guys are stuck using pistols and regular rifles, the casualties go way down. We KNOW this. That’s why all their arguments that you can do just as much damage with Grandpa’s pea-shooter as you can with an M4- its all garbage. 
Nobody needs these weapons. Nobody has a right to these weapons. And I don’t believe that @Opieor anyone else that is currently law abiding is going to be willing to become a criminal to keep them. Let’s get rid of them and have a safer society. 

Except the Virginia Tech shooting, which was the most deadly school shooting in us history, was perpetrated by a person using pistols.  So you’re incorrect.

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21 minutes ago, unckeyherb said:

Except the Virginia Tech shooting, which was the most deadly school shooting in us history, was perpetrated by a person using pistols.  So you’re incorrect.

So with everything being equal, you don't think there would be a casualty difference between using an Assault style rifle and a handgun?

You should probably ask the pro-gun folks in this thread if they believe the same to be true.

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16 minutes ago, unckeyherb said:

Except the Virginia Tech shooting, which was the most deadly school shooting in us history, was perpetrated by a person using pistols.  So you’re incorrect.

Not really. As a whole when you look at shootings you dont see a lot of AR15 shootings where many people get shot and like nobody dies. 

In chicago last year there was a mass shooting where 15 people were shot. Zero deaths. Two months later in MKE 7 shot, zero dead. Another month later 7 shot zero dead at a mall. Then the one that just happened in chicago, 15 shot 2 dead. Park in brooklyn 13 shot, 1 dead a couple years ago. 

Those are just off the top of my head. I bet I can find a lot more. Are there a lot of examples of AR15 shootings like that?

 

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26 minutes ago, unckeyherb said:

Except the Virginia Tech shooting, which was the most deadly school shooting in us history, was perpetrated by a person using pistols.  So you’re incorrect.

I could be incorrect, but one example wouldn’t be evidence of it. 

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1 hour ago, Opie said:

Once again...you are wrong and attempting to tell me how I should think and live.
Ya know...the absolute, #1 reason that I can't stand the Left is because they just cannot live with anyone having a difference of opinion. It is their life's work to tell everyone how they should think and act. 

Those on the Right don't do that. We spend our time telling you to leave us alone. Do you even notice that?

I have a better idea....how about you live your life and I'll live mine...complete with all of my inalienable rights.
Keep in mind that those rights are not granted to me by the US Govt. They are not a gift. 
They are mine and the Government shall not infringe on those rights.
What is so hard to understand?
Why are you so anxious to give up what is yours and force me to give up what is mine, simply because someone tells us that we should?  And if we don't agree....they will take them or force us to be criminals?

Why do you insist on trying to make people believe as you do?
You don't want a gun....don't get one. Isn't that the battle cry for abortions?

I don’t tell you how to think. If you want to believe that there should be no speed limits on roads, it’s your right to think that. I will try to garner more votes than you to get my way. 
 

I WILL however tell you how to act. That’s the whole purpose of government. Unless you’re an anarchist, you implicitly accept the concept that government has the right to restrict our freedom of action in order to ensure a safe and civil society. We can (and do) differ about how best to achieve this, but the concept itself should not be in question, and it’s rather disingenuous for you to suggest that this issue is about me trying to limit YOUR freedom. That’s the social contract you entered by living in the same country as those of us who share my perspective on this issue. 

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13 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I could be incorrect, but one example wouldn’t be evidence of it. 

You said when shooters are stuck with handguns, the casualties go way down.  The highest casualty school shooting ever was done with two handguns.  So you are in fact incorrect.  

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17 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

So with everything being equal, you don't think there would be a casualty difference between using an Assault style rifle and a handgun?

You should probably ask the pro-gun folks in this thread if they believe the same to be true.

I was specifically responding to Tim’s point that “we know” casualties go way down when shooters are armed with only handguns.  It’s demonstrably false.  
regarding your question, I don’t really know.  AR15s are quite lethal.  Someone with two Glock 19’s and a number of available magazines can do a lot of damage.  Especially on school grounds where they will meet a predictably small amount of defense-at least for many minutes.  There may be a casualty difference, there may not be.  Having armed security would be a much more impactful variable IMO.  

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3 minutes ago, unckeyherb said:

You said when shooters are stuck with handguns, the casualties go way down.  The highest casualty school shooting ever was done with two handguns.  So you are in fact incorrect.  

As a general rule. Over time. 
 

That being said, contrary to what I wrote, overall information about weapon bans having a positive effect is still inconclusive: 

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/ban-assault-weapons/mass-shootings.html

I believe it’s positive but I can’t prove it, essentially because the assault weapons ban ended too soon to form a conclusive sample size. But one way or another a single, or even handful of incidents wouldn’t prove me right or wrong. 

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21 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Not really. As a whole when you look at shootings you dont see a lot of AR15 shootings where many people get shot and like nobody dies. 

In chicago last year there was a mass shooting where 15 people were shot. Zero deaths. Two months later in MKE 7 shot, zero dead. Another month later 7 shot zero dead at a mall. Then the one that just happened in chicago, 15 shot 2 dead. Park in brooklyn 13 shot, 1 dead a couple years ago. 

Those are just off the top of my head. I bet I can find a lot more. Are there a lot of examples of AR15 shootings like that?

 

Don’t know.  It’s a good question and my guess is it would be hard to figure out.  The point that handguns simply make a shooter less lethal is the point I was rebutting.  With all the AR15-as-weapon school shootings we’ve had, none have surpassed a guy with two handguns.

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1 hour ago, unckeyherb said:

Don’t know.  It’s a good question and my guess is it would be hard to figure out.  The point that handguns simply make a shooter less lethal is the point I was rebutting.  With all the AR15-as-weapon school shootings we’ve had, none have surpassed a guy with two handguns.

Murders with long rifles are exceedingly rare.  Unarmed melee murders are significantly more common.

If you want to make America safer you need to start with Saturday night specials.

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Just now, Sand said:

Murders with long rifles are exceedingly rare.  Unarmed melee murders are significantly more common.

If you want to make America safer you need to start with Saturday night specials.

I totally agree that handguns are by far the bigger problem.

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1 hour ago, unckeyherb said:

Don’t know.  It’s a good question and my guess is it would be hard to figure out.  The point that handguns simply make a shooter less lethal is the point I was rebutting.  With all the AR15-as-weapon school shootings we’ve had, none have surpassed a guy with two handguns.

Overall I am ok with more gun control and don't think someone like Tim is far off.

I also understand why in our political environment its a "give no ground" policy because you know after AR-15 they aren't stopping.  That environment sucks...but it aint getting better.

All that said, I do think that many of the people advocating eliminating AR-15's probably haven't shot handguns...because if they did they would want to eliminate handguns as well.  You can unload 3 15 round magazines in what...60 seconds.

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2 hours ago, ekbeats said:

According to the Washington Post the country had been averaging about 7 mass shootings a year since 2012.  And we have news anchors saying that “people aren’t safe in America”.  Follow the science.

Quote

By the end of 2019, there were 417 mass shootings in the U.S., according to data from the nonprofit Gun Violence Archive (GVA), which tracks every mass shooting in the country. Thirty-one of those shootings were mass murders. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mass-shootings-2019-more-than-days-365/

Both things can be correct, but HFS @2019

 

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23 minutes ago, djmich said:

Overall I am ok with more gun control and don't think someone like Tim is far off.

I also understand why in our political environment its a "give no ground" policy because you know after AR-15 they aren't stopping.  That environment sucks...but it aint getting better.

All that said, I do think that many of the people advocating eliminating AR-15's probably haven't shot handguns...because if they did they would want to eliminate handguns as well.  You can unload 3 15 round magazines in what...60 seconds.

Ugh.   We can't meaningfully regulate handguns because of the Supreme Court decisions that determined that half of the words of the Second Amendment have no meaning.   Based on the interpretations in Heller v. District of Columbia and United States v. Miller, it is unconstitutional to restrict handguns because they are traditionally used for home defense.   Military-style weapons such as AR-15s are not, so they can be regulated.   That's been the basis of  courts upholding bans on these weapons in Connecticut, Maryland and New York, and it's why they've been banned by multiple states.   

Legislators are well aware that handguns kill more people.  We just can't do anything about it unless we amend the Constitution or the Supreme Court reverses cases going back to 1939.

The argument that we should be focusing on handguns is a red herring.   We, as a country, can't.   So gun legislation focuses on assault weapons, background checks, criminal history, secure storage, domestic violence, red flag laws, and other things that we can actually regulate.

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13 minutes ago, -jb- said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mass-shootings-2019-more-than-days-365/

Both things can be correct, but HFS @2019

 

Not sure both can be correct.  In the article you linked it has 2016, 2017, and 2018 all over 300 mass shootings.   0 chance that averages to 7 per year in the last decade.  

ETA:  and that is using the definition of 4/shooting.  

Edited by KarmaPolice
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Just now, -fish- said:

Ugh.   We can't meaningfully regulate handguns because of the Supreme Court decisions that determined that half of the words of the Second Amendment have no meaning.   Based on the interpretations in Heller v. District of Columbia and United States v. Miller, it is unconstitutional to restrict handguns because they are traditionally used for home defense.   Military-style weapons such as AR-15s do not, so they can be regulated.   That's been the basis of  courts upholding bans on these weapons in Connecticut, Maryland and New York, and it's why they've been banned by multiple states.   

Legislators are well aware that handguns kill more people.  We just can't do anything about it unless we amend the Constitution or the Supreme Court reverses cases going back to 1939.

The argument that we should be focusing on handguns is a red herring.   We, as a country, can't.   So gun legislation focuses on assault weapons, background checks, criminal history, secure storage, domestic violence, red flag laws, and other things that we can actually regulate.

Yes, I agree with you (actually I don't even know about much of what you said but sounds good to me)...mine was more an observation about the under appreciated firing capacity of a handgun.

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22 minutes ago, Sand said:

Murders with long rifles are exceedingly rare.  Unarmed melee murders are significantly more common.

If you want to make America safer you need to start with Saturday night specials.

Of course.  Something like 6% of gun deaths are rifles.  All rifles, ar15 and all others.  It’s almost nonexistent.   

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1 minute ago, KarmaPolice said:

Not sure both can be correct.  In the article you linked it has 2016, 2017, and 2018 all over 300 mass shootings.   0 chance that averages to 7 per year in the last decade.  

You have to add back all the People TrumpFather resurrected last year.

I have no idea whats wrong with me today.

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6 minutes ago, djmich said:

Yes, I agree with you (actually I don't even know about much of what you said but sounds good to me)...mine was more an observation about the under appreciated firing capacity of a handgun.

I don't think it's underappreciated at all.   But the NRA parrots love to trot out the argument about how AR-15 shootings are rare compared to handguns.  Same thing with "mass shootings" in Chicago.   Shootings in Chicago are nearly all handguns and gang-related.  That's an entirely different problem than the Boulder shooting or the Atlanta shooting (or Pulse, Sandy Hook, etc.).    The idea that "the left" doesn't understand guns and wants to ban "scary looking weapons" is utter nonsense published by the NRA and repeated by gun enthusiasts who think that gun control is a "gun grab."    We aren't regulating handguns anytime soon, because we can't.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't regulate AR-15s, high-capacity magazines, etc.   

Edited by -fish-
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