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is it time to ban smoking and tobacco products ? (1 Viewer)

ban tobacco products

  • yes

    Votes: 9 20.0%
  • no

    Votes: 36 80.0%

  • Total voters
    45

Stealthycat

Footballguy
13.7% of all adults  smoke - a ban would NOT impact 87% of us

we could save hundreds of thousands of lives - billions in health care, life expectancy and quality of life would go up .............. look at the facts below and vote

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.Mar 23, 2020

Smoking leads to disease and disability and harms nearly every organ of the body.1

More than 16 million Americans are living with a disease caused by smoking.

For every person who dies because of smoking, at least 30 people live with a serious smoking-related illness.

Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis.

Smoking also increases risk for tuberculosis, certain eye diseases, and problems of the immune system, including rheumatoid arthritis.

Smoking is a known cause of erectile dysfunction in males.

Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death.

Worldwide, tobacco use causes more than 7 million deaths per year.2 If the pattern of smoking all over the globe doesn’t change, more than 8 million people a year will die from diseases related to tobacco use by 2030.3

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.1

On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.4

If smoking continues at the current rate among U.S. youth, 5.6 million of today’s Americans younger than 18 years of age are expected to die prematurely from a smoking-related illness. This represents about one in every 13 Americans aged 17 years or younger who are alive today.1

Smoking costs the United States billions of dollars each year.1,7

Total economic cost of smoking is more than $300 billion a year, including

Nearly $170 billion in direct medical care for adults6

More than $156 billion in lost productivity due to premature death and exposure to secondhand smoke1

The tobacco industry spends billions of dollars each year on cigarette and smokeless tobacco advertising and promotions.6,7

$9.06 billion was spent on advertising and promotion of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco combined—about $25 million every day, and more than $1 million every hour.

Price discounts to retailers account for 73.3% of all cigarette marketing (about $6.16 billion). These are discounts paid in order to reduce the price of cigarettes to consumers

State spending on tobacco prevention and control does not meet CDC-recommended levels.1,8,9

States have billions of dollars from the taxes they put on tobacco products and money from lawsuits against cigarette companies that they can use to prevent smoking and help smokers quit. Right now, though, the states only use a very small amount of that money to prevent and control tobacco use.

In fiscal year 2020, states will collect $27.2 billion from tobacco taxes and settlements in court, but will only spend $740 million in the same year. That’s only 2.7% of it spent on programs that can stop young people from becoming smokers and help current smokers quit.8

Right now, not a single state out of 50 funds these programs at CDC’s “recommended” level. Only three states (Alaska, California, and Maine) give even 70% of the full recommended amount. Twenty-eight states and the District of Columbia spend less than 20 percent of what the CDC recommends. One state, Connecticut, gives no state funds for prevention and quit-smoking programs.8

Spending 12% (about $3.3 billion) of the $27.2 billion would fund every state’s tobacco control program at CDC-recommended levels.8

==========

Chewing Tobacco Kills More Than 250,000 Yearly

British study is first to assess international impact of smokeless tobacco on adults

FROM THE WEBMD ARCHIVES 

By Robert Preidt

HealthDay Reporter

WEDNESDAY, Sept. 2, 2015 (HealthDay News) -- While cigarette smoking is a known killer, many people don't realize that smokeless tobacco is linked to more than a quarter of a million deaths worldwide each year, British researchers report.

The University of York team said its analysis of data from 113 countries and other sources is the first study to assess the international impact of smokeless tobacco on adults.

"It is possible that these figures are underestimated, and future studies may reveal that the impact is even bigger. We need a global effort to try and address and control smokeless tobacco," lead researcher Kamran Siddiqi, a senior lecturer in epidemiology and public health at York, said in a university news release.

 
we could save hundreds of thousands of lives - billions in health care, life expectancy and quality of life would go up .............. look at the facts below and vote
I don't want government, in general, mandating behavior.

However, much like the first amendment, speech can be protected but still have consequences.  Those to smoke should see sharply higher health insurance premiums.  Much higher multiples than they are now.

 
I don't want government, in general, mandating behavior.

However, much like the first amendment, speech can be protected but still have consequences.  Those to smoke should see sharply higher health insurance premiums.  Much higher multiples than they are now.
Yes I agree

And they should be banned in a public space.  And they should be banned around kids.  I see these cars with a baby in it and the mom is in the front puffing away. It's disgusting

 
I would like to say yes.......

No, it should not be banned. Raise the age to 21 and triple the taxes on it a pack of cigarettes should cost 20 dollars. 

The juul vapor devices should have their taxes increased ten fold.

 
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I would like to say yes.......

No, it should not be banned. Raise the age to 21 and triple the taxes on it.
Prohibitive taxes is another good idea

Smoking is the ultimate show of just how irrational people are.  A good chunk of this population has no idea how to think for themselves and probably don't want to.  There is a reason so much is spent on advertising

 
I would like to say yes.......

No, it should not be banned. Raise the age to 21 and triple the taxes on it a pack of cigarettes should cost 20 dollars. 

The juul vapor devices should have their taxes increased ten fold.
of course, that creates a black-market for tobacco...grow it yourselves, find cartons that "fell off the truck", import from Mexico, etc... that whole thing.

 
I don't want government, in general, mandating behavior.

However, much like the first amendment, speech can be protected but still have consequences.  Those to smoke should see sharply higher health insurance premiums.  Much higher multiples than they are now.
I think this is the right answer.  Nicotine can be detected up to 3 months after ingestion.  It sounds reasonable to me to allow insurance companies to double everyone's insurance and then give 50% discounts for passing yearly nicotine tests.

 
13.7% of all adults  smoke - a ban would NOT impact 87% of us

we could save hundreds of thousands of lives - billions in health care, life expectancy and quality of life would go up .............. look at the facts below and vote

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.Mar 23, 2020

Smoking leads to disease and disability and harms nearly every organ of the body.1

More than 16 million Americans are living with a disease caused by smoking.

For every person who dies because of smoking, at least 30 people live with a serious smoking-related illness.

Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis.

Smoking also increases risk for tuberculosis, certain eye diseases, and problems of the immune system, including rheumatoid arthritis.

Smoking is a known cause of erectile dysfunction in males.

Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death.

Worldwide, tobacco use causes more than 7 million deaths per year.2 If the pattern of smoking all over the globe doesn’t change, more than 8 million people a year will die from diseases related to tobacco use by 2030.3

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.1

On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.4

If smoking continues at the current rate among U.S. youth, 5.6 million of today’s Americans younger than 18 years of age are expected to die prematurely from a smoking-related illness. This represents about one in every 13 Americans aged 17 years or younger who are alive today.1

Smoking costs the United States billions of dollars each year.1,7

Total economic cost of smoking is more than $300 billion a year, including

Nearly $170 billion in direct medical care for adults6

More than $156 billion in lost productivity due to premature death and exposure to secondhand smoke1

The tobacco industry spends billions of dollars each year on cigarette and smokeless tobacco advertising and promotions.6,7

$9.06 billion was spent on advertising and promotion of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco combined—about $25 million every day, and more than $1 million every hour.

Price discounts to retailers account for 73.3% of all cigarette marketing (about $6.16 billion). These are discounts paid in order to reduce the price of cigarettes to consumers

State spending on tobacco prevention and control does not meet CDC-recommended levels.1,8,9

States have billions of dollars from the taxes they put on tobacco products and money from lawsuits against cigarette companies that they can use to prevent smoking and help smokers quit. Right now, though, the states only use a very small amount of that money to prevent and control tobacco use.

In fiscal year 2020, states will collect $27.2 billion from tobacco taxes and settlements in court, but will only spend $740 million in the same year. That’s only 2.7% of it spent on programs that can stop young people from becoming smokers and help current smokers quit.8

Right now, not a single state out of 50 funds these programs at CDC’s “recommended” level. Only three states (Alaska, California, and Maine) give even 70% of the full recommended amount. Twenty-eight states and the District of Columbia spend less than 20 percent of what the CDC recommends. One state, Connecticut, gives no state funds for prevention and quit-smoking programs.8

Spending 12% (about $3.3 billion) of the $27.2 billion would fund every state’s tobacco control program at CDC-recommended levels.8

==========

Chewing Tobacco Kills More Than 250,000 Yearly

British study is first to assess international impact of smokeless tobacco on adults

FROM THE WEBMD ARCHIVES 

By Robert Preidt

HealthDay Reporter

WEDNESDAY, Sept. 2, 2015 (HealthDay News) -- While cigarette smoking is a known killer, many people don't realize that smokeless tobacco is linked to more than a quarter of a million deaths worldwide each year, British researchers report.

The University of York team said its analysis of data from 113 countries and other sources is the first study to assess the international impact of smokeless tobacco on adults.

"It is possible that these figures are underestimated, and future studies may reveal that the impact is even bigger. We need a global effort to try and address and control smokeless tobacco," lead researcher Kamran Siddiqi, a senior lecturer in epidemiology and public health at York, said in a university news release.
We allow drinking and some forms of recreational drugs, so I really don't think we should ban it.  They have tried to do everything in their power to prevent collateral damage (2nd hand smoke) from affecting others.  Provided that no one else is harmed (except for the smoker), then I say live and let live.

 
I get the feeling that this is another veiled discussion about gun laws, especially in the wake of two mass shootings.  Poor form, IMO.

 
I'd be ok with a smoking ban (I smoke), if we force obese individuals to lose weight. Obesity causes just as much health risks as smoking. 

 
I wouldn't.  Some people smoke and own guns.  We don't want those gun owners to go more bonkers than they already are.

 
13%?  Probably doesn't include vaping, which seems pretty prevalent nowadays and the health risks are still being evaluated.

 
Loss of tax revenue.
so the money generated from smoking is absolutely worth the 700,000 dead people and the massive cost to the healthcare system

I'll buy that - because its really not about saving lives at all is it ?

look at the poll - people here don't care about 700,000 dead people - they care more about other things

but if we're talking about 200-300 dead people from mass shootings? oh heck, this board goes CRAZY about how every life matters

 
so the money generated from smoking is absolutely worth the 700,000 dead people and the massive cost to the healthcare system

I'll buy that - because its really not about saving lives at all is it ?

look at the poll - people here don't care about 700,000 dead people - they care more about other things

but if we're talking about 200-300 dead people from mass shootings? oh heck, this board goes CRAZY about how every life matters
Stay on subject please, tobacco <> guns.

 
the billions we'd save is not the case. it's why Hillary Clinton quit as her husband's health czar, according to an ol politics friend of mine who was on her team. at the time, there was not the heavy tax on tobacco that there is now. initiating one was a cornerstone of her UHC strategy until her budget crunchers came to her and told her that her numbers wouldnt play out without smokers. smokers actually consumed significantly less lifetime healthcare dollars than people who lived til 80 and - as everybody was doing in those days which caused Al Gore to campaign on a Social Security "lock box" - her plan borrowed heavily from the SS pool to fund certain programs and that $$ would not be available without a certain number of premature deaths.. Ms Clinton reportedly hurled a month-long fit over that and told hubby she was done.

 
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Smoking is personal.  It should be discouraged.  It should be banned in public and around kids.  But if you want to do it in the privacy of your own home so be it.

 
This question is tobacco band related but I’m curious

Besides the cigarettes and chewing tobacco and the like what else is the tobacco plant used for?

 
That’s a good point. Does “smoking” include cannabis, or limited to tobacco only? 
If we're talking health effects the smoke of weed is about the same as tobacco.  So it should be included.

Weed is anything but harmless, though it seems to have positive effects that tobacco doesn't.

 
This specific topic was about banning tobacco to save lives.
topics turn into wide varieties of discussions 

overwhelmingly people are voting here on this poll that 700,000 dead people every year is acceptable so that 35 million can enjoy their habit of smoking/chewing

do you agree/ ?  that's pretty much the conclusion here right ?

 
topics turn into wide varieties of discussions 

overwhelmingly people are voting here on this poll that 700,000 dead people every year is acceptable so that 35 million can enjoy their habit of smoking/chewing

do you agree/ ?  that's pretty much the conclusion here right ?
I agree that laws should be put in place to deter such habits.

I was one of the first to post in this thread, we need to raise the price of tobacco so that it can be used recreational. For example i smoked a cigarette when i went to the bars with my buddies when i was in my early 20's and this caused no lasting harm. However it should also be priced so that it deters people from forming life long habits.

Then you can get the best of both worlds, it is legal and you can save lives.

Not everything is black and white and the regulations and laws that we put in place in the country should account for such nuances.

 
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so the money generated from smoking is absolutely worth the 700,000 dead people and the massive cost to the healthcare system

I'll buy that - because its really not about saving lives at all is it ?

look at the poll - people here don't care about 700,000 dead people - they care more about other things

but if we're talking about 200-300 dead people from mass shootings? oh heck, this board goes CRAZY about how every life matters
If the government really cared about us, there are no sin taxes - because there would be no tobacco, alcohol, casinos, or state lotteries.  
 

Then what?

 
topics turn into wide varieties of discussions 

overwhelmingly people are voting here on this poll that 700,000 dead people every year is acceptable so that 35 million can enjoy their habit of smoking/chewing

do you agree/ ?  that's pretty much the conclusion here right ?
Of the 700k people you cite, what percentage were aware that tobacco use is hazardous for their health?  

Of the victims on Monday, what percentage knew that going to King Supers in Boulder, CO on 3/21/2021 was hazardous for their health?

 
Of the 700k people you cite, what percentage were aware that tobacco use is hazardous for their health?  

Of the victims on Monday, what percentage knew that going to King Supers in Boulder, CO on 3/21/2021 was hazardous for their health?
Shouldn’t you have the right to protect yourself?   If we banned guns tomorrow, I would bet these murderers will always find a way to accessing them.

 
If the government really cared about us, there are no sin taxes - because there would be no tobacco, alcohol, casinos, or state lotteries.  
 

Then what?
Bans are not a very effective way of reducing those behaviors. This was proven by prohibition and the war on drugs. Regulation, taxes, education and addictions treatment are more effective in reducing those behaviors. So if the government cares about us, then there will be sin taxes.

 
How do we accomplish this?
I'd start with raising insurance prices. If we continue to raise the prices of cigarettes in order to deter smoking, why not raise insurance for obese individuals? 

2. Insurance covers gym membership fees.

3. Since we're talking "sin taxes". Let's raise the price of all "junk foods". Chips, soda, fast food, etc. 

Smokers constantly have their "sin" taxed as a deterrent. Why single them out? My smoking hurts nobody but me. I never smoke in my house, car, and only outside. I pay my own health insurance with an additional fee for smoking. 

Why can't we treat obese people like smokers? They're just as big a drain on health insurance, if not more, then smokers. Punish them the same we do smoking. Stop pushing fat is beautiful. 

 
How do we accomplish this?
Clone Dikembe Mutombo and station him in every supermarket.

If the government really cared about us, there are no sin taxes - because there would be no tobacco, alcohol, casinos, or state lotteries.  
 

Then what?
Then society would certainly be better off, but there would be a very vocal minority that would dislike losing their mind altering substances and addictive behaviors.

 
I'd start with raising insurance prices. If we continue to raise the prices of cigarettes in order to deter smoking, why not raise insurance for obese individuals? 

2. Insurance covers gym membership fees.

3. Since we're talking "sin taxes". Let's raise the price of all "junk foods". Chips, soda, fast food, etc. 

Smokers constantly have their "sin" taxed as a deterrent. Why single them out? My smoking hurts nobody but me. I never smoke in my house, car, and only outside. I pay my own health insurance with an additional fee for smoking. 

Why can't we treat obese people like smokers? They're just as big a drain on health insurance, if not more, then smokers. Punish them the same we do smoking. Stop pushing fat is beautiful. 
That all sounds pretty reasonable, but it’s a bit more complicated to “punish” everything that contributes to obesity.
 

How would you define obese - BMI? 

 
I'd start with raising insurance prices. If we continue to raise the prices of cigarettes in order to deter smoking, why not raise insurance for obese individuals? 

2. Insurance covers gym membership fees.

3. Since we're talking "sin taxes". Let's raise the price of all "junk foods". Chips, soda, fast food, etc. 

Smokers constantly have their "sin" taxed as a deterrent. Why single them out? My smoking hurts nobody but me. I never smoke in my house, car, and only outside. I pay my own health insurance with an additional fee for smoking. 

Why can't we treat obese people like smokers? They're just as big a drain on health insurance, if not more, then smokers. Punish them the same we do smoking. Stop pushing fat is beautiful. 
To do this would be to ignore the generations of government complicity in making people obese. They put heroin on the shelves, and you want to raise taxes on the addicts.  

Other countries refuse our food, will not import it because they don't want to poison their citizenry.

Clean up the food industry, make them pay for decades of fat kids.  

 
That all sounds pretty reasonable, but it’s a bit more complicated to “punish” everything that contributes to obesity.
 

How would you define obese - BMI? 
Why is it more complicated? Unless there's legit medical reasons for obesity, but I'm not talking about the rare reasons. We can exclude those for the sake of this discussion. 

I'm talking individuals that overeat, never exercise, lazy if you will. Poor diet choices etc. Don't tell me we need more education on healthy eating either. Like smoking, everyone by the age of 14, should know eating McDonald's 4 times a week is unhealthy. 

I'll let a Dr determine what is obese. They can report it to insurance.

 
To do this would be to ignore the generations of government complicity in making people obese. They put heroin on the shelves, and you want to raise taxes on the addicts.  

Other countries refuse our food, will not import it because they don't want to poison their citizenry.

Clean up the food industry, make them pay for decades of fat kids.  
Nobody forced parents to buy the "heroin" for their children. Americans have gotten lazy. It's easier to pick up a happy meal, then to go home a cook a decent meal. 

Like smoking, it's a choice of what you put in your body. 

 
Nobody forced parents to buy the "heroin" for their children. Americans have gotten lazy. It's easier to pick up a happy meal, then to go home a cook a decent meal. 

Like smoking, it's a choice of what you put in your body. 
You can fill your shopping cart at the store with stuff labeled 'Healthy Choice', 'Heart Smart', 'All Natural', Multigrain, and be shoving sugar and preservatives and emulsifiers down your kids throat.  

Other countries are not led around by the nose by the food industry, and miraculously don't have as bad as a problem.  

Obesity is a national problem for sure, but it's really a problem in poorer communities.  

That is just the solution, isn't it? Higher insurance premiums (which everyone agrees are too low as it is) for the poor.  What a great idea. A bigger financial burden is exactly what trailer park moms need to start air-frying veggies.  

Make it so that sugar/high fructose corn syrup isn't so easy to be stuffed into different foods, and you'll see a much bigger impact than making in harder to insure your family.  

 

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