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I thought high cash bail was bad and crowdfunding to pay for bail was ok?


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Well unless it is right wing criminals we are talking about, of course. 

This thread is pretty awesome. It is a trove of hypocrisy if you follow through the blue check mark replies and retweets. Shows media bias, big tech bias, and political hypocrisy. 

The weird attempt that is happening to shield female reporters from all criticism is ridiculous too. Second time now left wing media members are trying to frame criticism in this manner. I mean how do you accuse people of doxxing a reporter because you mention her by name when she is a published writer?

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13 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Well unless it is right wing criminals we are talking about, of course. 

This thread is pretty awesome. It is a trove of hypocrisy if you follow through the blue check mark replies and retweets. Shows media bias, big tech bias, and political hypocrisy. 

The weird attempt that is happening to shield female reporters from all criticism is ridiculous too. Second time now left wing media members are trying to frame criticism in this manner. I mean how do you accuse people of doxxing a reporter because you mention her by name when she is a published writer?

It does depend on the crime charged, no? No bail for not paying parking tickets is not in the same league as no bail for participating in an insurrection at the Capitol. 

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If you are charged with a crime that likely will result in minimal or no jail time, but you have to spend months in jail waiting trial because you can't afford bail, that is insane,

 

When you are charged with a crime that is going to get you 5+ years in jail and there is video of you committing said crime, I don't think you should be out on bail.

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9 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Sorry what?

I’m saying it’s not a right/left thing.  There is a difference when it comes to federal vs lesser  crimes though

7 minutes ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

If you are charged with a crime that likely will result in minimal or no jail time, but you have to spend months in jail waiting trial because you can't afford bail, that is insane,

 

When you are charged with a crime that is going to get you 5+ years in jail and there is video of you committing said crime, I don't think you should be out on bail.

It’s also insane letting those people out, then booking them 24 hours later for the same thing.  There is no deterrent.  

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2 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

I’m saying it’s not a right/left thing.  There is a difference when it comes to federal vs lesser  crimes though

It’s also insane letting those people out, then booking them 24 hours later for the same thing.  There is no deterrent.  

If you're saying that, cool.   I do not think that is what that tweet was saying however.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

If you're saying that, cool.   I do not think that is what that tweet was saying however.

Ok well I have a problem with the crackdown from big tech.  Now is that them taking the initiative or the feds?

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8 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

I’m saying it’s not a right/left thing.  There is a difference when it comes to federal vs lesser  crimes though

It’s also insane letting those people out, then booking them 24 hours later for the same thing.  There is no deterrent.  

The deterrent is whatever they get if convicted 

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10 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Ok well I have a problem with the crackdown from big tech.  Now is that them taking the initiative or the feds?

Big tech couldn't be more obvious on this one. Bail raising was always forbidden by those sites. Then after george floyd, they relaxed their policies. Now after January 6th they are like, oh yeah, we are against that.

 

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5 minutes ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

The deterrent is whatever they get if convicted 

How about the ones the city let walk because they don’t have the resources to go to trial?  
 

and the left wonders why there is a gun problem that is getting worse.

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1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

Big tech couldn't be more obvious on this one. Bail raising was always forbidden by those sites. Then after george floyd, they relaxed their policies. Now after January 6th they are like, oh yeah, we are against that.

 

So Kamala wasn’t leading a campaign like she did in Minn?

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50 minutes ago, rct said:

It does depend on the crime charged, no? No bail for not paying parking tickets is not in the same league as no bail for participating in an insurrection at the Capitol. 

This isn't about parking tickets.  This is about proclaiming an equivalency between race riots and the insurrection.  Lots of folks on the left went to bat to bail out people arrested over the summer and therefore it's hypocritical to complain about the right doing the same thing.

of course, that only works if the alleged crimes were relatively equivalent.  I absolutely do not agree with that position.

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2 minutes ago, moleculo said:

This isn't about parking tickets.  This is about proclaiming an equivalency between race riots and the insurrection.  Lots of folks on the left went to bat to bail out people arrested over the summer and therefore it's hypocritical to complain about the right doing the same thing.

of course, that only works if the alleged crimes were relatively equivalent.  I absolutely do not agree with that position.

The eighth amendment doesn't have an exception for crimes that occur on federal property.  I'm fine with denying bail when the defendant is a legitimate flight risk (like Jeffrey Epstein, for example).  I'm all in favor of bail or ROR otherwise.

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Just now, moleculo said:

This isn't about parking tickets.  This is about proclaiming an equivalency between race riots and the insurrection.  Lots of folks on the left went to bat to bail out people arrested over the summer and therefore it's hypocritical to complain about the right doing the same thing.

of course, that only works if the alleged crimes were relatively equivalent.  I absolutely do not agree with that position.

Ending cash bail has been a rallying cry for a while now. Many democrats have advocated for misdemeanors and non violent felonies to not have cash bail. New York passed a law against it. Three of the people mentioned in that article havent been charged with violent offenses. 

Furthermore burning down a building is defiitely on par or worse than what plenty of people did in DC and the organization that crowdfunded fully admitted they did not review charges before paying bail in MN. 

 

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5 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

The eighth amendment doesn't have an exception for crimes that occur on federal property.  I'm fine with denying bail when the defendant is a legitimate flight risk (like Jeffrey Epstein, for example).  I'm all in favor of bail or ROR otherwise.

this isn't really about bail itself either.  It's about crowd-sourcing bail money - the left supported it WRT race riots and (big-tech as a proxy for the left) is against it WRT the insurrection.  

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1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

Ending cash bail has been a rallying cry for a while now. Many democrats have advocated for misdemeanors and non violent felonies to not have cash bail. New York passed a law against it. Three of the people mentioned in that article havent been charged with violent offenses. 

Furthermore burning down a building is defiitely on par or worse than what plenty of people did in DC and the organization that crowdfunded fully admitted they did not review charges before paying bail in MN. 

 

so it is about bail?

I get so confused about the lefts transgressions and what we are supposed to be upset about. 

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7 minutes ago, moleculo said:

this isn't really about bail itself either.  It's about crowd-sourcing bail money - the left supported it WRT race riots and (big-tech as a proxy for the left) is against it WRT the insurrection.  

Okay.  Those are both fine.

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3 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Ending cash bail has been a rallying cry for a while now. Many democrats have advocated for misdemeanors and non violent felonies to not have cash bail. New York passed a law against it. Three of the people mentioned in that article havent been charged with violent offenses. 

Furthermore burning down a building is defiitely on par or worse than what plenty of people did in DC and the organization that crowdfunded fully admitted they did not review charges before paying bail in MN. 

Absolutely. and for at least the last 3-4 years.

Can't remember his name but there was a black guy shot in the back fleeing a police officer after a routine stop that showed outstanding warrants for unpaid parking tickets and he ran because he could not afford to be in jail again for like 3-6 months for not being able to meet the cash bail requirements.

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Yeah these are really two different topics. Judicial "abuse" of setting high bail (or no bail at all) is worse than Big Tech practice of allowing/preventing crowdfunding based on their politics. Both are horrible.

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I'm not in favor of ending cash bail, but it def needs a logical reform. Many people, esp lower income, cannot afford to sit in a cell and not be able to support their family while the process plays out which could take months or even years. Loss of work + bail costs can set families back years financially, if they could ever recover at all. 

There was a documentary on cash bail I saw years ago, I wish I remembered the title. But I remember they interviewed a woman who owned a bail bond company in NY and she didn't GAF about anyone or anything except "F-u pay me". It showed how much of a "business" bail has become and young black, low income people have become a commodity. 

 

edit: found it

Edited by glvsav37
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People are definitely hypocritical on this and many other issues. High cash bail is absurd. Crowdfunding bail and legal fees is fine, as long as the lawyers are serving the defendant, and not whoever is paying. And crowdfunding legal fees is fraught with abuse by opportunists. 

I haven't really considered the issue of big tech "deplatforming" funds for controversial groups. That's a puzzler. 

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1 hour ago, glvsav37 said:

I'm not in favor of ending cash bail, but it def needs a logical reform. Many people, esp lower income, cannot afford to sit in a cell and not be able to support their family while the process plays out which could take months or even years. Loss of work + bail costs can set families back years financially, if they could ever recover at all. 

There was a documentary on cash bail I saw years ago, I wish I remembered the title. But I remember they interviewed a woman who owned a bail bond company in NY and she didn't GAF about anyone or anything except "F-u pay me". It showed how much of a "business" bail has become and young black, low income people have become a commodity. 

 

edit: found it

Good documentary.  

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Good link and useful, but I'm not talking about libertarians; I'm talking about conservatives.   Same argument doesn't really apply. 

Anyway, high cash bail is bad because it's punitive.   

Crowdsourcing anything has the potential to be good, bad or neutral, but if the platform that it's being run on determines it to be bad, I don't see why they can't enforce terms of service to prevent it.  There could be outlier issues relating to discrimination by a service provider, but otherwise you're just letting businesses run their businesses.  

Locally we had a tragic incident where a young man who had been in and out of mental health facilities for years ended up killing his sister.   Many of us with teenage kids knew both of them.   A family friend started a gofundme for funeral expenses and to pay for an attorney so that the brother could get a defense that would focus on his mental health and that he'd end up in a psychiatric facility rather than a prison.   Gofundme killed the fundraiser and refunded all of the money because it violated their terms of service.   They started a new one for funeral expenses only and it raised the same amount of money and didn't create a problem.   Gofundme did nothing wrong, even though there were inconsistent results.

Edited by -fish-
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16 hours ago, glvsav37 said:

I'm not in favor of ending cash bail, but it def needs a logical reform. Many people, esp lower income, cannot afford to sit in a cell and not be able to support their family while the process plays out which could take months or even years. Loss of work + bail costs can set families back years financially, if they could ever recover at all. 

There was a documentary on cash bail I saw years ago, I wish I remembered the title. But I remember they interviewed a woman who owned a bail bond company in NY and she didn't GAF about anyone or anything except "F-u pay me". It showed how much of a "business" bail has become and young black, low income people have become a commodity. 

 

edit: found it

Cash bail and most of the lower end criminal justice system needs massive massive changes. It isn't about anything remotely close to justice anymore.  It has become a sentient entity ensuring its own survival.

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44 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Cash bail and most of the lower end criminal justice system needs massive massive changes. 

This has been a long year, and really a long 5 years or so if we're being honest.  One of the things that is most frustrating to me personally is that we had a nationwide freak-out over criminal justice issues going on a year ago, and we did literally nothing to address the actual problem.  The fact that we just lived through a massive pandemic that shut down much of the economy and locked us inside our houses for several months and that's only #2 on the list of things that I'm irritated about is really saying something.

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On 3/29/2021 at 12:59 PM, Drunken Cowboy said:

If you are charged with a crime that likely will result in minimal or no jail time, but you have to spend months in jail waiting trial because you can't afford bail, that is insane,

 

When you are charged with a crime that is going to get you 5+ years in jail and there is video of you committing said crime, I don't think you should be out on bail.

Let's not forget that some of the folks Kamala helped crowdsource out were facing charges (rape, assault with a deadly weapon, etc.) that carried way more than 5 years possible time.  Yet this was cheered by the left, crowdsourcing this went unchecked (blind eye), etc.

Now, all of a sudden, we're concerned with keeping folks in jail.  For some, who assaulted and injured police officers and are a flight risk, I completely agree with no bail decisions.

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