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Anti-Vaxxers? How do you handle?


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17 minutes ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Yeah, I'm in the camp that government agencies can't or shouldn't be able to require vaccination. But private companies can do whatever they want. And if American Airlines says they will require vaccinations, they may lose business from anti-vaxxers. And that's fine. That's capitalism at work. Maybe another airline will try to steal the business by specifically NOT requiring vaccination. 

Pretty much where I'm at.  Of course, here in Florida, our governor is on the precipice of not allowing businesses to require this sort of thing...for employees or for customers.  It's going to be an interesting battle to watch.

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1 hour ago, chet said:

Are employers allowed to ask the vaccination status of employees?  I was on the phone with a business that I used to frequent often pre-pandemic.   I asked about the vaccination status of their employees and they said due to HIPPA, they're not allowed to ask

I have been amazed (although not necessarily surprised) at how HIPPA has been circumvented for this.  I work in our facilities group so we are in charge of disinfecting areas if/when someone tests positive.  I have been amazed at how names are being emailed around with their health status and nobody (at least around here) is concerned about their HIPPA rights.  It has always been drilled into us about providing that type of information and how you can't do that but with this situation that hasn't even been mentioned.  I wonder if the vaccination status will fall into that status so how can businesses ask this type of thing without violating HIPPA protections.  

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31 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

I know 2 full families who refuse to get vaccinated.  They are old school hippie types even though only in their mid 30s.  The two women are sisters and they each have 2 kids.  No vaccines for them, husbands or their familes.  They said if it ever has impact on employment they are ready file lawsuits.

Cue the "Free speech" arguments, lol

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13 hours ago, CletiusMaximus said:

I guess it goes without saying this is a red hot topic for companies large and small across the country right now.  My advice - assuming you don’t have an urgency that requires action - is to keep doing what you’re doing, be patient and let the situation develop for another month or so, then revisit. This is a fast-moving train, the science seems uncertain and the guidance from authorities is at times inconsistent and even contradictory. In this situation, I would rather be a follower than a leader.  The last thing you want to do is lay down a company policy, then have to backtrack or make adjustments to deal with the inevitable unforeseen circumstances. 

 

The science isn't uncertain at this point, it's not long term but it's not uncertain. Also, the guidance from the CDC and WHO are pretty much in lock step when it comes to this. Get vaccinated, period. In terms of the phases and advice on openings as well as distance, yes those are not consistent but have not been contradictory based on what I have read.

12 hours ago, Sea Duck said:

I think that the solution will be to make masks optional for those who get vaccinated. That will create some incentive for the anti-vax types.

Queue up the fake vaccine cards.

2 hours ago, jamny said:

What about people that have had the virus and now have a natural immunity?

Not everyone who has had Covid has a great immune response. There have been some findings that if you had Covid but were asymptomatic or had mild symptoms like just a fever, that you're immunity isn't nearly as strong as someone who's had more severe symptoms. In short the recommendations are get vaccinate regardless of if you've had Covid.

1 hour ago, Gally said:

Which is why many people aren't rushing to get the vaccine.  There isn't enough consensus or information regarding long term effects.  Just because someone isn't rushing to get the vaccine or doesn't want to be forced into getting something that was rushed to market doesn't mean they are anti-vaxxers either.  I am all for vaccinations but I have reservations about getting something that was rushed to market without any knowledge about long term affects and that didn't go through full research protocols.  

 

Trying to mandate employees to get the vaccination is going to be a hard sell when the military & federal government isn't mandating their employees to get the vaccine due to the emergency approval status (not full approval status).  This may change if/when the vaccine gets full approval status but until then I doubt it is wise (legally) to force employees to get the vaccination. 

To me the long term effects of having Covid far outweigh tricking my immune system into building a response with a mRNA vaccine. We know more about long term effects of Covid and some of them are damn scary. Now if you're talking about the J&J or the Astrazeneca I'd be a bit more in agreement, as those are not mRNA type vaccines and specifically the Astrazeneca vaccine has had serious issues with their reporting data.

Based on what I've heard from virologists and what I've read the mRNA seems the most safe type out there and has a long history of research and development.

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Just now, Hawks64 said:

Not everyone who has had Covid has a great immune response. There have been some findings that if you had Covid but were asymptomatic or had mild symptoms like just a fever, that you're immunity isn't nearly as strong as someone who's had more severe symptoms. In short the recommendations are get vaccinate regardless of if you've had Covid.

Right now, known antibodies have shown to last longer than the vaccine. Of course that's because the vaccine hasn't been around as long. I have a friend that caught it last April with almost no symptoms and is still showing antibodies as of a couple of weeks ago. 

Quote

Research shows that 91 percent of people who develop antibodies against the coronavirus are unlikely to be infected again for six months, even after a mild infection. People who had no symptoms during the infection are also likely to develop immunity, though they tend to make fewer antibodies than those who felt ill. So for some people, natural immunity may be strong and long-lasting.

I see no reason why I should get a vaccine if I am still showing detectable antibodies. There's not enough evidence to show that I would need to. I would have gladly gotten the vaccine if I never got the virus but as of now, I won't.

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6 minutes ago, jamny said:

Right now, known antibodies have shown to last longer than the vaccine. Of course that's because the vaccine hasn't been around as long. I have a friend that caught it last April with almost no symptoms and is still showing antibodies as of a couple of weeks ago. 

I see no reason why I should get a vaccine if I am still showing detectable antibodies. There's not enough evidence to show that I would need to. I would have gladly gotten the vaccine if I never got the virus but as of now, I won't.

I would be a little more worried about the stuff floating around in Brazil breaking out.  What seem to be hurting people there are variants going after people who have had it before.

It's creating almost an auto immune response.  It's nearly impossible to get a complete story of what's happening there, but what there is isn't ideal.

 

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2 hours ago, chet said:

Are employers allowed to ask the vaccination status of employees?  I was on the phone with a business that I used to frequent often pre-pandemic.   I asked about the vaccination status of their employees and they said due to HIPPA, they're not allowed to ask. 

The way I understand HIPPA best practice in this situation is that the designated MRO of the company can indeed ask the question.  They just can't publicize the answer.  So, the company could require disclosure of vaccination status by employees and then determine their availability for work based on the answer and the policy they have set.  So an employee would never be publicly not allowed to work because of the lack of vaccination. They simply aren't allowed to work by the MRO and it could be for any number of reasons.

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17 minutes ago, Hawks64 said:

The science isn't uncertain at this point, it's not long term but it's not uncertain. Also, the guidance from the CDC and WHO are pretty much in lock step when it comes to this. Get vaccinated, period. In terms of the phases and advice on openings as well as distance, yes those are not consistent but have not been contradictory based on what I have read.

 

From the perspective of an employer, it is uncertain.  Are you going to force a type 1 diabetic to come into the office where no one is wearing masks because everyone has been vaccinated?  What about an obese employee, or one who has COPD? How do you draft a policy that will cover all of the variance that even smaller companies (50-100 employees) will experience?  Do you still require masks, for example if we have 15 vaccinated people in a conference room for an hour?  What about the variants that weren't around when Moderna was doing its testing?  We know the CDC recommends getting vaccinated, but this question goes way beyond that. We are talking about a company policy that requires employees to be vaccinated in order to come back to work, and eventually be terminated if they refuse - or the alternative.

 

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7 minutes ago, culdeus said:

I would be a little more worried about the stuff floating around in Brazil breaking out.  What seem to be hurting people there are variants going after people who have had it before.

It's creating almost an auto immune response.  It's nearly impossible to get a complete story of what's happening there, but what there is isn't ideal.

 

I don't know if you have a more recent link but from what I can find, from March 1st, 2 people have been reinfected from the Brazil variant. That's not something I'm going to be concerned with right now.

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I guess the question is: how can we get back to "normal" which does not involve masks or social distancing? If the answer is that we need to wait for most or all of the Anti-Vaxxers to change their mind, then that is a no go. So those of us getting the vaccine and "doing the right thing" shouldn't be held captive by Anti-Vaxxers. 

Is there anyone that disagrees with that? If not, get the people who want it vaccinated and then remove the restrictions. If a vaccinated person is still worried, they can wear a mask or socially distance. If an Anti-Vaxxer gets it from a vaccinate person and gets sick, oh well, that's the price of not getting the shot, just like with the flu or any other vaccine. 

Edited by ConstruxBoy
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22 minutes ago, ConstruxBoy said:

I guess the question is: how can we get back to "normal" which does not involve masks or social distancing? If the answer is that we need to wait for most or all of the Anti-Vaxxers to change their mind, then that is a no go. So those of us getting the vaccine and "doing the right thing" shouldn't be held captive by Anti-Vaxxers. 

Is there anyone that disagrees with that? If not, get the people who want it vaccinated and then remove the restrictions. If a vaccinated person is still worried, they can wear a mask or socially distance. If an Anti-Vaxxer gets it from a vaccinate person and gets sick, oh well, that's the price of not getting the shot, just like with the flu or any other vaccine. 

So you are saying not getting the vaccine is the "wrong thing"?   I don't think there is a right or wrong thing to do.  I think people need to do their due diligence and figure out what is the right choice for them.  It won't be the same for everyone.  

 

People promoting the vaccine are still recommending wearing masks and keeping social distanced even after you get the vaccine.  Until that changes then everyone is still "held captive".   And if you get a vaccine and are comfortable with that being the end all be all then why are you being held captive by anti-vaxxers? 

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4 minutes ago, Gally said:

So you are saying not getting the vaccine is the "wrong thing"?   I don't think there is a right or wrong thing to do.  I think people need to do their due diligence and figure out what is the right choice for them.  It won't be the same for everyone.  

Yes, not getting the vaccine is the wrong thing for all but the most exceedingly rare cases.  

4 minutes ago, Gally said:

People promoting the vaccine are still recommending wearing masks and keeping social distanced even after you get the vaccine.  Until that changes then everyone is still "held captive".   And if you get a vaccine and are comfortable with that being the end all be all then why are you beingheld captive by anti-vaxxers? 

I am being held captive as a 2 shot veteran by:

1) Not being able to use my actual office

2) Forced to wear a mask on a ####### plane

3) My wife has to teach in a mask all damn day

4) Still no real opportunity to have live entertainment, sports, broadway, etc.  

5) I have to watch basketball games with 8 cases of powerade stacked in towers @Capella

 

If you have to "make your own decision" whatever the #### that means it's on you at this point.  I don't see a reason why employers shouldn't be able to tell you to make your own decision to get a paycheck then.  I can't think such a thing should be unconstitutional, if put forward.  Let them try to get some remote job, who cares.  

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5 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Yes, not getting the vaccine is the wrong thing for all but the most exceedingly rare cases.  

I am being held captive as a 2 shot veteran by:

1) Not being able to use my actual office

2) Forced to wear a mask on a ####### plane

3) My wife has to teach in a mask all damn day

4) Still no real opportunity to have live entertainment, sports, broadway, etc.  

5) I have to watch basketball games with 8 cases of powerade stacked in towers @Capella

 

If you have to "make your own decision" whatever the #### that means it's on you at this point.  I don't see a reason why employers shouldn't be able to tell you to make your own decision to get a paycheck then.  I can't think such a thing should be unconstitutional, if put forward.  Let them try to get some remote job, who cares.  

I completely agree that making your own decision means living with the consequences.  It is on you if you don't want to get a vaccine.  It's also on you if you do want one.  We are in agreement about living with the consequences of your decision.  However, I disagree with the bold.  Nobody should be forced to take a vaccine that was rushed to market on an emergency basis without any long term affects being known or how it may or may not affect people with other health issues.  

 

I am all for vaccines and getting them for the most part.  I have never gotten a flu shot because it is a guess of what flu is going to hit so it really isn't as sure as some of the longer term vaccines like small pox, polio etc.  I have reservations about the covid vaccine because of the rush to get it through but that means I have to live with my decision and am fine with that.  But I don't think it should be forced on anybody.  

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1 hour ago, CletiusMaximus said:

From the perspective of an employer, it is uncertain.  Are you going to force a type 1 diabetic to come into the office where no one is wearing masks because everyone has been vaccinated?  What about an obese employee, or one who has COPD? How do you draft a policy that will cover all of the variance that even smaller companies (50-100 employees) will experience?  Do you still require masks, for example if we have 15 vaccinated people in a conference room for an hour?  What about the variants that weren't around when Moderna was doing its testing?  We know the CDC recommends getting vaccinated, but this question goes way beyond that. We are talking about a company policy that requires employees to be vaccinated in order to come back to work, and eventually be terminated if they refuse - or the alternative.

 

Another test that was just released much more current with frontline and healthcare workers here in the US showing the same efficacy as they did originally. So still strong IMO. And from the perspective of an employer the science doesn't change. The science is the science. Now guidance around how we adapt and change behavior based on is on local, state, and fed governments IMO.

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14 minutes ago, Gally said:

I completely agree that making your own decision means living with the consequences.  It is on you if you don't want to get a vaccine.  It's also on you if you do want one.  We are in agreement about living with the consequences of your decision.  However, I disagree with the bold.  Nobody should be forced to take a vaccine that was rushed to market on an emergency basis without any long term affects being known or how it may or may not affect people with other health issues.  

 

I am all for vaccines and getting them for the most part.  I have never gotten a flu shot because it is a guess of what flu is going to hit so it really isn't as sure as some of the longer term vaccines like small pox, polio etc.  I have reservations about the covid vaccine because of the rush to get it through but that means I have to live with my decision and am fine with that.  But I don't think it should be forced on anybody.  

This whole "emergency basis" is a anti vax talking point.  The technology has been well tested for a very long time.  The fact that it wasn't tested on a specific vector makes it no less safe, but potentially less effective, given the timetable.  So far it's crushing the effectiveness expectations.

The m type flavors legit give you exposure to some chimp virus that's harmless that simply teaches your body how to react to the real thing, it's out of your system in a matter of hours.  It's no different than catching some cold at the grocery store, or in a lot of cases smelling a fart.  The marketing of this thing has been abysmal.  It's vastly less risky than dead virus stuff you get for polio, that type of vax is really hard to make over long periods of time consistently.  This m vax stuff as it rolls out will be much more stable.  

 

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15 hours ago, Judge Smails said:

Yes. This is our fear 

Out of curiosity, whats the reasoning behind wanting people back in the office?  If they’ve been at home a year, are you not able to understand their value?

Edited by bigmarc27
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3 hours ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Maybe another airline will try to steal the business by specifically NOT requiring vaccination. 

🤣 I'm trying  to predict the airline that will market to anti vax crowds with maskless flights.  Based on experience I'd guess Spirit Airlines.

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1 hour ago, Gally said:

So you are saying not getting the vaccine is the "wrong thing"?   I don't think there is a right or wrong thing to do.  I think people need to do their due diligence and figure out what is the right choice for them.  It won't be the same for everyone.  

 

People promoting the vaccine are still recommending wearing masks and keeping social distanced even after you get the vaccine.  Until that changes then everyone is still "held captive".   And if you get a vaccine and are comfortable with that being the end all be all then why are you being held captive by anti-vaxxers? 

Because I don't run American Airlines, or my local beer store, or anywhere else where they take guidance from the CDC or people smarter than me. When enough people get vaccinated, then those people that are smarter than me need to eliminate the "mandatory" guidelines so those businesses can go back to normal without fear of being sued. 

I worry that they won't do that because the Anti-Vaxxers will turn this into a political issue and, like all political issues, it will slow to a standstill. 

I'm glad that you don't feel that vaccinated people need to keep up with masks and social distancing just to help anti-vaxxers. I hope they all feel that way. 

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3 minutes ago, flranger said:

🤣 I'm trying  to predict the airline that will market to anti vax crowds with maskless flights.  Based on experience I'd guess Spirit Airlines.

"Our flight attendants will sneeze right in your face if that's, you know, your thing"

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2 hours ago, One said:

I think it's foolish to assume "Science" has everything figured out.  Especially when you look at the incredible amount of mental health issues mounting in our country.  

My son is one of the few to experience vaccine injury and unfortunately Western doctors at Kaiser were unable to publicly acknowledge what happened for fear of losing their jobs.  Kaiser Legal demanded they stay quiet.  However, privately they agreed the problem and many problems are caused by vaccines (for some).  It's just extremely controversial to address it in this day and age.  In my case, we were lucky enough to find an alternative doctor to reverse it's effects and my son is now 100% back to normal, 3 years later. 

Making the C-19 vaccination mandatory has the potential to be devastating to our citizens. Nobody should be waving their finger, discriminating against, or judging others for their personal health decisions.  What ever happened to my body, my choice?

Man that really sucks, sorry to hear. Do you mind sharing what kind of vaccine it was?

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2 hours ago, One said:

 

My son is one of the few to experience vaccine injury and unfortunately Western doctors at Kaiser were unable to publicly acknowledge what happened for fear of losing their jobs.  Kaiser Legal demanded they stay quiet.  However, privately they agreed the problem and many problems are caused by vaccines (for some).  It's just extremely controversial to address it in this day and age.  In my case, we were lucky enough to find an alternative doctor to reverse it's effects and my son is now 100% back to normal, 3 years later. 

🤨

 

This entire thing makes zero sense and reads like a “share this with 10 of your closest friends” emails.

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42 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Don't enjoy being "that guy", but there are a non-insignificant number of people that would find this statement pretty offensive since it implies that would be a really negative thing to happen.

I edited, I agree, I was struggling to come up with something ridiculous sounding as far as a symptom and my words failed me.  

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1 hour ago, Gally said:

I completely agree that making your own decision means living with the consequences.  It is on you if you don't want to get a vaccine.  It's also on you if you do want one.  We are in agreement about living with the consequences of your decision.  However, I disagree with the bold.  Nobody should be forced to take a vaccine that was rushed to market on an emergency basis without any long term affects being known or how it may or may not affect people with other health issues.  

 

I am all for vaccines and getting them for the most part.  I have never gotten a flu shot because it is a guess of what flu is going to hit so it really isn't as sure as some of the longer term vaccines like small pox, polio etc.  I have reservations about the covid vaccine because of the rush to get it through but that means I have to live with my decision and am fine with that.  But I don't think it should be forced on anybody.  

Is it being suggested that the government blanket requires the vaccine in this thread?

 

ETA: In other words, is the "force" being referenced related to government action or merely private employers requiring it? 

Edited by Zow
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29 minutes ago, flranger said:

🤣 I'm trying  to predict the airline that will market to anti vax crowds with maskless flights.  Based on experience I'd guess Spirit Airlines.

Somebodies missing a marketing opportunity methinks...https://static.politico.com/8a/4a/69936f2e48d0832de6e6aba71871/161206-trump-plane-getty-1160.jpg

#noban

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1 hour ago, Gally said:

I completely agree that making your own decision means living with the consequences.  It is on you if you don't want to get a vaccine.  It's also on you if you do want one.  We are in agreement about living with the consequences of your decision.  However, I disagree with the bold.  Nobody should be forced to take a vaccine that was rushed to market on an emergency basis without any long term affects being known or how it may or may not affect people with other health issues.  

 

I am all for vaccines and getting them for the most part.  I have never gotten a flu shot because it is a guess of what flu is going to hit so it really isn't as sure as some of the longer term vaccines like small pox, polio etc.  I have reservations about the covid vaccine because of the rush to get it through but that means I have to live with my decision and am fine with that.  But I don't think it should be forced on anybody.  

Will it change your mind when they get the BLA in a few months

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5 hours ago, Zow said:

My office required we present a photo of the vaccination card (I believe all of us getting the vaccine get them). Took about 15 seconds for me to screenshot it and email it. I've now laminated it as I anticipate it being necessary for international travel. 

I may do the same and put it in my safe along with my miniature college diploma from Georgia Tech which I've needed exactly zero times in 20 years.

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5 minutes ago, belljr said:

Will it change your mind when they get the BLA in a few months

No, then it will be "rushed" and the "data looks funny" or someone I know maybe had a bad reaction to it or some vaccine sometime before.

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18 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I may do the same and put it in my safe along with my miniature college diploma from Georgia Tech which I've needed exactly zero times in 20 years.

Georgia Tech has a miniature college too?!? That's awesome!!!

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6 minutes ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Georgia Tech has a miniature college too?!? That's awesome!!!

What is this? A center for ants? How can we be expected to teach children to learn how to read if they can't even fit inside the building?

Edited by belljr
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31 minutes ago, belljr said:

Will it change your mind when they get the BLA in a few months

Change my mind with respect to what?  Me getting the vaccine or requiring people to get the vaccine?  I won't change my mind about requiring people and I have already signed up to get the vaccine.  I just haven't gotten it yet.

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Just now, Gally said:

Change my mind with respect to what?  Me getting the vaccine or requiring people to get the vaccine?  I won't change my mind about requiring people and I have already signed up to get the vaccine.  I just haven't gotten it yet.

I was confused about your "emergency" stance.... This is just fyi if you didn't know 

 

There are two ways to get a vaccine greenlighted by the FDA: with an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) or by applying for a license through a Biologics License Application (BLA).

 

“The only difference really between the emergency use and the licensure is that volunteers are observed for a longer period of time to see the duration of protection, and if there might be rare adverse events that occurred down the road," Dr. Schaffner said. 

 

In layman's terms, Dr. Monto said, that follow-up period after complete vaccination is typically longer when considering full licensure.

 

"After the clinical trials are finished, the difference between the Emergency Use Authorization and full licensure, for the public's information or knowledge, is basically the duration of follow-up or safety, not efficacy," Dr. Monto said. "Efficacy requirements are the same."

Applying for a license is no joke -- there are 21 pages worth of criteria for a COVID-19 vaccine BLA on the FDA’s website. They take into account the chemistry, manufacturing and clinical trials. 

 

A Pfizer spokesperson said they plan to submit a BLA in 2021. Same with Moderna and Johnson & Johnson according to press releases.

 

Just because the vaccines are under an EUA our experts say that doesn’t inherently make them less safe.

 

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51 minutes ago, Zow said:

Is it being suggested that the government blanket requires the vaccine in this thread?

 

ETA: In other words, is the "force" being referenced related to government action or merely private employers requiring it? 

I didn't say it was being required by the government.  In fact it is not being required by the government.  As far as private companies I guess they can do what they want to some degree but it seems like they would be open up to some sort of lawsuits if they did.  

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1 minute ago, Gally said:

As far as private companies I guess they can do what they want to some degree but it seems like they would be open up to some sort of lawsuits if they did.  

Yes, and maybe open to lawsuits from the other direction if they do not. It's definitely not an easy situation for an employer.

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7 minutes ago, belljr said:

I was confused about your "emergency" stance.... This is just fyi if you didn't know 

 

There are two ways to get a vaccine greenlighted by the FDA: with an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) or by applying for a license through a Biologics License Application (BLA).

 

“The only difference really between the emergency use and the licensure is that volunteers are observed for a longer period of time to see the duration of protection, and if there might be rare adverse events that occurred down the road," Dr. Schaffner said. 

 

In layman's terms, Dr. Monto said, that follow-up period after complete vaccination is typically longer when considering full licensure.

 

"After the clinical trials are finished, the difference between the Emergency Use Authorization and full licensure, for the public's information or knowledge, is basically the duration of follow-up or safety, not efficacy," Dr. Monto said. "Efficacy requirements are the same."

Applying for a license is no joke -- there are 21 pages worth of criteria for a COVID-19 vaccine BLA on the FDA’s website. They take into account the chemistry, manufacturing and clinical trials. 

 

A Pfizer spokesperson said they plan to submit a BLA in 2021. Same with Moderna and Johnson & Johnson according to press releases.

 

Just because the vaccines are under an EUA our experts say that doesn’t inherently make them less safe.

 

All great info.  Thanks.  My concerns stem from the bold and possible long term affects.  That was really my only hold up on taking the plunge. 

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We haven't required vaccinations here in my government office, but 7/9 of us have been vaccinated.  Two holdouts are (1) woman who was too lazy to make appointment (she's scheduled for shot 1 Thursday); and (2) "I'm not taking anything that's not found naturally" woman who got COVID in January on trip to Mexico and has son who got COVID on another out of town trip over Spring Break. 

She was really angry when we told her she had to get a negative test before coming back to the office.  I can see how requiring the negative test opens management up to criticism when most in the office have been vaccinated and she likely still has antibodies, but there's no definitive proof on the limits of antibody protection (my antibodies were gone after 9 months) and she also works with outsiders who have not been vaccinated.  Until we know more, we have to play it safe, or she can get vaccinated - it's her call.  

The pro-vaxxers are definitely getting riled up over the anti-vaxxer's "irresponsible behavior" outside from work, and I expect the issue to blow up soon.  I hate office drama.    

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1 hour ago, Gally said:

I didn't say it was being required by the government.  In fact it is not being required by the government.  As far as private companies I guess they can do what they want to some degree but it seems like they would be open up to some sort of lawsuits if they did.  

This was my initial concern, too, however I'm getting swayed that the liability worry isn't as worrisome. 

I think this situation may be akin to schools or other agencies/entities requiring general vaccinations to attend (absent legitimate medical and/or religious exceptions). 

Edited by Zow
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2 hours ago, Mookie said:

The pro-vaxxers are definitely getting riled up over the anti-vaxxer's "irresponsible behavior" outside from work, and I expect the issue to blow up soon.  I hate office drama. 

right there with ya.

however, please give us every gory detail.  

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18 minutes ago, moleculo said:

My company is offering a $50 gift card (ok, $35 after taxes lol) to any employee who presents their vaccine record card.

I'm holding out for the pto day the other poster was offering.  I ain't giving up my 100% wfh for it but its a nice consolation prize if wfh is no longer an option.  

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5 hours ago, flranger said:

🤣 I'm trying  to predict the airline that will market to anti vax crowds with maskless flights.  Based on experience I'd guess Spirit Airlines.

:goodposting:

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23 hours ago, Dezbelief said:

With the vaccines being under emergency use authorization I don't think you can be too aggressive on the subject. 

My wife’s employer went 100% wfh about a year ago. There are some that want to go back to the office. Everyone was informed today that no one will be allowed back at the office unless they are vaccinated

 

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Let festival / concert / event organizers / theaters etc set their policy and exempt them from discrimination lawsuits. Let employers do the same. 
 

The free market will sort itself out. 

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