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Declaration of War begins on the Middle Class starting Today!


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4 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Thanks Tim, really appreciate you popping in to let folks know that even though you have full comprehension that poor people will truly be the ones who pay all these taxes in the end, that it likely helps a wealthy man as yourself and you are going to be just fine with everything. 

Because you're rich Tim, we got it. 

No idea how you got any of that from what I wrote but OK. 
And nowhere in my post did I discuss my own income which isn’t even relevant. 

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And it looks like it would be a 2.6 % marginal increase on dollars earned above $400,000. Meaning a couple earning $400k sees no increase. A couple earning $500k sees an increase of $2600. Hardly a wa

So, we are just completely ignoring all statistical data that makes it clear that 400k is definitively NOT middle class, but above it, by anywhere from a fair bit to laughably above, based on location

WTH is going on in here? Where I can I sell Swedish Fish for a $400k salary? 

7 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

By that definition of $65k avg household income, that would be $32,500 or less than what a starting teacher makes on a per person basis if mom n dad are working. 

What is your point?  No one is  proposing to raise their taxes or anyone close to that level of income.  I would think Biden's goal with this plan is to try and help these folks.  Weather it will and if this is the best method to do so is a whole other question.  I have my doubts and will leave it at that. 

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1 hour ago, Ministry of Pain said:

You're deserve a post back, you've waited patiently with a smirk on your face, I can see you. 

-MoP understands the logic of some of you but try and look at it how I am looking at things. There's 100 people and there is $10 Million in the kitty. 50 people make $20 an hour or less let's say. That's about $800k, let's round it to $1M. 

50 people get 10% of the pie and then another 25% of the folks make $40 an hour or $80k per year. And we can keep doing this but some folks seem to think that whatever person 25-75 in line make up the Middle Class but you might have a very wide Working Poor, living pay check to pay check with very little to no savings or the inability with lack of resources to truly invest in oneself. 

It's sad to me how some folks(not you BB) look at it. 2013, Avg Household Income was $50k which is about $12.50 per head if there are two incomes...$12.50 an hour is Middle Class? Is that what we want to use as a definition? My 21 yr old son who lives with and helps take care of his grandparents makes about $17 an hour and cannot afford an apartment on his own if he tried because we have and I wanted him to live on his own. I had my own apartment from the time I was 18 and I left home, mom was a teacher, father a branch mgr at a bank, we had very little money growing up in South Florida which is what spurned me to immediately run out and make some when I was younger. 

There's a major gap or jump from $400k to $1M and then believe it or not, some folks actually make a lot more than that...I don't know those people but the wealthy making Millions that really don't have to work another day in their lives...most of the folks making $100k, $200k, etc...they are not loafing around. I feel strongly that people who work hard for $20 an hour resent folks who make double what they do even though they work just as hard if not harder to make that much more. Whatever they did, they made themselves more valuable. 

You want to make more, become more. It's not like people who make 6 figures just walk out tot he mailbox and collect the check.

:goodposting:

Sounds like a bunch of poor people trying to convince themselves they are middle class.  And they are the ones that the government has tricked into thinking that raising taxes is a good idea.  It's like watching water go down the drain.  

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I might also add for those playing along at home, Mrs MoP and I work in philanthropy, we raise money at a hospital. They were raising $5M a year when we arrived 4 year ago, last count was $42M last year. Jupiter Island is where Tiger Woods is recuperating and I bet the CEO of Johnson and Johnson likely has a house next to his, its one of the largest pockets of wealth along a strip of beach in Florida I've ever seen. And we try as hard as we can to separate them from their money without forcing them thru taxes. 

I understand wealth and wealthy people, I run in these circles even though I am not like them. Gift Officers walk a fine line trying to get into these folks heads and what makes them tick. Then I turn around and I got a teacher, an accountant and a Swedish Fish clerk fighting over the definition of Middle Class...

C'mon folks, work with me here. Are we really going to say Middle Class starts at about $16.50 an hour in here? 

:whistle:

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36 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

I’d have no issue paying $2,600 in extra taxes for an additional $100,000 in income above what I already make. That’s not going to demotivate me from earning more money. Particularly because the Trump tax cut reduced the top marginal tax rate by that very amount (2.6%) just a couple years ago. 

You're just willing to take another 2.6% off before taxes?  You're going to have to work extra hard, or get lucky to put that money to work for you just to get it all back.  Lots of people going to be figuring out how to stay just under the threshold, that's probably easier.  

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3 minutes ago, tonydead said:

You're just willing to take another 2.6% off before taxes?  You're going to have to work extra hard, or get lucky to put that money to work for you just to get it all back.  Lots of people going to be figuring out how to stay just under the threshold, that's probably easier.  

Would you work harder to make an extra 100k if you after tax income went down by 2,600?  I sure as hell am and imagine most people in that situation would say that same.  

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3 minutes ago, tonydead said:

You're just willing to take another 2.6% off before taxes?  You're going to have to work extra hard, or get lucky to put that money to work for you just to get it all back.  Lots of people going to be figuring out how to stay just under the threshold, that's probably easier.  

This is most assuredly not true. Nobody is going to voluntarily reduce their income to $399,999 in order to not pay an extra $2.60 in taxes on every $100 over that that threshold

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10 hours ago, the moops said:

I mean, my wife and I make solid "middle class money" - AKA 150K'ish household income

We don't dry clean. Bought a van for 10K and got a hand me down Camry. Our mortgage is 2K. Our phones are a couple years old. We don't skimp on groceries or vacations though.

When you can buy a new Accord and have a 4K mortgage and buy frappucinos everyday and get your shirt pressed and drycleaned and can take a few vacations every year and buy new iphones every year, etc, etc....

That is the American description of wealthy. You aren't middle class. You choose to spend spend spend and have more spending power than 90% of Americans. That you are maybe a few paychecks from having to not get Starbucks everyday, or have to sell your brand new car for a perfectly fine 4 year old car, or need to text on a iphone 5 instead of 6, or whatever

There are Starbucks on every damn corner selling frappucinos to people.  That's not extra-ordinary, neither should buying a new car be.  Have you seen the new car lots around everywhere, been down to the docks watching the unload them by the thousands?  It's the American dream to be able to do those things.  We can't let your version be the definition of middle class.  

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9 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

What is your point?  No one is  proposing to raise their taxes or anyone close to that level of income.  I would think Biden's goal with this plan is to try and help these folks.  Weather it will and if this is the best method to do so is a whole other question.  I have my doubts and will leave it at that. 

A person making $16.50, less than a starting teacher's salary is Middle Class to you? My point is w have a warped view of what Middle Class is these days. 

Poor to me is anyone who work and also receives assistance, or is faced with having a minimum salary or wage type job vs losing their benefits for unemployment. 

I wish we would reward those who work hard for their hourly wages and give them a direct supplement to bring them up a level or two. You work 40 hours a week, you will have a decent place to live, running car, be able to eat comfortably, have some time for family and friends, these things shouldn't have to be made into choices. 

Does anyone in here know someone who really works hard for $15 an hour a week? Are they living better than paycheck to paycheck? That is working poor IMHO, sorry you all don't see it as I do. 

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Just now, the moops said:

This is most assuredly not true. Nobody is going to voluntarily reduce their income to $399,999 in order to not pay an extra $2.60 in taxes on every $100 over that that threshold

:lmao:  That's not what I meant.  There will be ways to harbor the extra income. Plenty of loopholes already, I'm sure Biden will "inadvertently" make some more.  He's trying to thread the needle here, just like his corporate income tax, trying to appease the radical left by doing something while still making sure he takes care of the people that have greased his palms.  

 

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7 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Would you work harder to make an extra 100k if you after tax income went down by 2,600?  I sure as hell am and imagine most people in that situation would say that same.  

Would I work harder if the government taxes me more?  What kind of question is that?

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5 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Would you work harder to make an extra 100k if you after tax income went down by 2,600?  I sure as hell am and imagine most people in that situation would say that same.  

Out of that $100k I'm shooting for, I already know at least 40% or more is going to get eaten...Now we are already under $60k and then we got to throw some more at taxes...thank goodness there are a few people still earning some big bucks that punch clocks for a living that we can aim are Tax Howitzers at. 

You all make it look like $97,400 is being kept, bologna I say. 

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Just now, Ministry of Pain said:

A person making $16.50, less than a starting teacher's salary is Middle Class to you? My point is w have a warped view of what Middle Class is these days. 

Poor to me is anyone who work and also receives assistance, or is faced with having a minimum salary or wage type job vs losing their benefits for unemployment. 

I wish we would reward those who work hard for their hourly wages and give them a direct supplement to bring them up a level or two. You work 40 hours a week, you will have a decent place to live, running car, be able to eat comfortably, have some time for family and friends, these things shouldn't have to be made into choices. 

Does anyone in here know someone who really works hard for $15 an hour a week? Are they living better than paycheck to paycheck? That is working poor IMHO, sorry you all don't see it as I do. 

huh, this is pointless.  I gave you the median income in this country.  I am not trying to debate where middle class starts and it is not a real issue with the plan in question since no one is going to raise taxes of people making 65k.  Biden has proposed raising taxes on people making over 400k (if he has said differently let me know).  I am saying you make over 400k you are not middle class.  

There are reasons to dislike this bill but saying raising taxes on middle class is not one of them based on proposal I have seen.

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1 minute ago, tonydead said:

Would I work harder if the government taxes me more?  What kind of question is that?

what kind of logic is it to say 2.6% on mariginal income over 400k is going to stop people from trying to make over 400k

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2 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

what kind of logic is it to say 2.6% on mariginal income over 400k is going to stop people from trying to make over 400k

I dunno, who said that?

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The average household income in 2020 was under $100,000. A household income of $400,000 put you in the 98th percentile. Reminder: households making $400,000 are NOT affected by the Biden tax plan.

So yeah, by no measure is an income of $400K "middle class". Sorry, you're just not.

 Apologies for my contribution to :deadhorse:

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Just now, tonydead said:

I dunno, who said that?

you 

 

19 minutes ago, tonydead said:

You're just willing to take another 2.6% off before taxes?  You're going to have to work extra hard, or get lucky to put that money to work for you just to get it all back.  Lots of people going to be figuring out how to stay just under the threshold, that's probably easier.  

 

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1 minute ago, Redwes25 said:

what kind of logic is it to say 2.6% on mariginal income over 400k is going to stop people from trying to make over 400k

It's amazing that everyone in the country doesn't reduce their taxable income down to 40K in order to avoid marginal rate increase from 12% to 22%

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2 minutes ago, the moops said:

It's amazing that everyone in the country doesn't reduce their taxable income down to 40K in order to avoid marginal rate increase from 12% to 22%

No one said everyone.  That's the problem with this whole discussion, you want to put everyone in a nice clean bucket, a bucket where somehow buying a new car and frequenting Starbucks makes you rich. 

I promise you where the dollars make sense, there are plenty of people that drive their taxable income down under 40K and take advantage of a lower tax bracket. It's fiscally irresponsible not to.  

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Must run errands and be gone for much fo the rest of the day so I am guessing the inbox is going to be like 47 when I get back. 

Folks, from the @bigbottomof my heart, pleas have fun in here and don't take things too seriously. We've had swedish fish and tuna fish flying about, let's keep it in good spirits, I certainly think I've been treated fair so far for firing this thread up but I felt like it needed to be said and wanted to get the pulse of folks. 

What I am asking is that we all take it easy on each other and keep it classy San Diego. I will try and answer all the posts. I appreciate all of you coming in here and breathing life into the topic. If I offended anyone with my POV on money in general, please know it was only meant to try speak out for all the hard working people. My son is working overnights at Publix right now, 45-50 hours a week, I'm sure there are more like him but even there at Publix, he just takes advantage of what others won't. My wife's work, why do so many folks not contribute to their 401Ks? We max it out but so many don't save a dollar and say they cannot afford to save...and they are making decent money according to most of you. 

Just keep those gloves up and I don't want to see any hitting below the belt :boxing:

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56 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

@bigbottom

Would you care to give me a range of what you consider Middle Class income? 

$50K Household? That breaks down to $25k per individual or roughly $2k a month, $500 a week...that's Middle Class? I need some hard numbers since you have run me thru the mill on mine...and I appreciate you posting back and forth with me BB, I don't take anything you wrote personally or mildly offensive, and I don't disagree with many of your posts but I also want folks to understand that the folks in this upper Middle Class range are not rich. Now I see folks making $20 an hour pointing and shaming people for making 6 figures, that's again how the truly wealthy stay ahead as @Shula-holicwas pointing out, they get folks fighting within their own class.   

I don’t have a definitive opinion on what I consider to be the appropriate range for middle class income in this country. I’d have to do a lot more research to have an informed opinion on the subject. As I stated earlier, I am simply taking issue with certain (not all) of the numbers you are using to make your point, as they appear to be dramatically inaccurate. 

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33 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Lots of people going to be figuring out how to stay just under the threshold, that's probably easier.  

It’s a marginal rate. What is the point of trying to stay under the threshold?

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2 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

I don’t have a definitive opinion on what I consider to be the appropriate range for middle class income in this country. I’d have to do a lot more research to have an informed opinion on the subject. As I stated earlier, I am simply taking issue with certain (not all) of the numbers you are using to make your point, as they appear to be dramatically inaccurate. 

I think that folks who make an hourly wage with a few exceptions think that most people who are on a yearly salary are wealthy. 

And by that POV, that's a lot of folks making just barely more than the average hourly worker. Teachers in Florida were given a pay raise to start out...still think it's under $50K a year which is absurd. 

And then you have salaried employees who then resent their mid-level manager boss because he gets a yearly bonus added on to their salary or makes a quarterly bonus paid out for meeting their goals. 

Then the Mid-level Manager hates his boss, the CFO who is making the big bucks, 6 figures and that guy is RICH! 

This is how many think or feel out there. I wonder if we asked the guy making fries at McDonald's for $15 an hour if they feel like they are Middle Class citizens. 

I think we need a definition because the President has announced his and since you think many of the numbers I spit out are a little eye popping, I'd like to hear what others think it cost monthly to have a Family of 4 in this country in 2021. 

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1 minute ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I think that folks who make an hourly wage with a few exceptions think that most people who are on a yearly salary are wealthy. 

And by that POV, that's a lot of folks making just barely more than the average hourly worker. Teachers in Florida were given a pay raise to start out...still think it's under $50K a year which is absurd. 

And then you have salaried employees who then resent their mid-level manager boss because he gets a yearly bonus added on to their salary or makes a quarterly bonus paid out for meeting their goals. 

Then the Mid-level Manager hates his boss, the CFO who is making the big bucks, 6 figures and that guy is RICH! 

This is how many think or feel out there. I wonder if we asked the guy making fries at McDonald's for $15 an hour if they feel like they are Middle Class citizens. 

I think we need a definition because the President has announced his and since you think many of the numbers I spit out are a little eye popping, I'd like to hear what others think it cost monthly to have a Family of 4 in this country in 2021. 

I definitely agree with the points you make above in that things are always relative and our perspectives are often impacted (clouded) by our own personal situation. 

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16 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Must run errands and be gone for much fo the rest of the day so I am guessing the inbox is going to be like 47 when I get back. 

Folks, from the @bigbottomof my heart, pleas have fun in here and don't take things too seriously. We've had swedish fish and tuna fish flying about, let's keep it in good spirits, I certainly think I've been treated fair so far for firing this thread up but I felt like it needed to be said and wanted to get the pulse of folks. 

What I am asking is that we all take it easy on each other and keep it classy San Diego. I will try and answer all the posts. I appreciate all of you coming in here and breathing life into the topic. If I offended anyone with my POV on money in general, please know it was only meant to try speak out for all the hard working people. My son is working overnights at Publix right now, 45-50 hours a week, I'm sure there are more like him but even there at Publix, he just takes advantage of what others won't. My wife's work, why do so many folks not contribute to their 401Ks? We max it out but so many don't save a dollar and say they cannot afford to save...and they are making decent money according to most of you. 

Just keep those gloves up and I don't want to see any hitting below the belt :boxing:

This has been a very interesting discussion. I’m glad you started the thread. 

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29 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Google ways to lower your adjusted gross income and report back.  Nobody said anything about taking a pay cut.

:lmao:  Tax advisers aren't cheap.  Lowering income and using complex tax strategies can save the wealthy significant amount of money in taxes but no one is going to that expense to lower their income to $399,999.  It makes no sense.  They are setting up these strategies weather or not the marginal rate is 2.6% higher and are doing it now.    

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Things to rule out to help the poors:

1. Raising taxes on the rich - the poors will end up paying for it in the end.

2. Raising minimum wage - unemployment skyrockets and the poors lose their jobs

3. Basic income guarantee - See raising taxes on the rich


Moving the poors further down the economic ladder is really the only thing that helps them. If only they could just see that.

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fellas, I think we can all agree that if your family income is X, upper class is approximately X+ $50k .

Everyone wants to define themselves as middle class but as FBG, I need to remind you that we are all supper-elite-upper-tier.  This has been established time and time again, this is not a new topic.

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13 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

:lmao:  Tax advisers aren't cheap.  Lowering income and using complex tax strategies can save the wealthy significant amount of money in taxes but no one is going to that expense to lower their income to $399,999.  It makes no sense.  They are setting up these strategies weather or not the marginal rate is 2.6% higher and are doing it now.    

:shrug: My company pays for my financial advisor.  If the dollars work, it's fiscally irresponsible not to adjust your AGI to a lower tax bracket. And take advantage of as many loopholes as possible.  Such a weird argument to make assuming people ignore stuff like this. 

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4 minutes ago, moleculo said:

fellas, I think we can all agree that if your family income is X, upper class is approximately X+ $50k .

Everyone wants to define themselves as middle class but as FBG, I need to remind you that we are all supper-elite-upper-tier.  This has been established time and time again, this is not a new topic.

I don't think we can agree to either of those.  50K isn't nearly enough to jump up a class and some people think going to Starbucks is a luxury.   

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1 hour ago, moleculo said:

I think my favorite part of a (D) presidency is (R)'s start pretending to be fiscally conservative again.

My favorite is how something as lame as whataboutism is used whenever a position can't be defended.

Taxes being raised...$5-6 trillion being spent.

Tax and Spend. Case closed.

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1 minute ago, Stoneworker said:

My favorite is how something as lame as whataboutism is used whenever a position can't be defended.

Taxes being raised...$5-6 trillion being spent.

Tax and Spend. Case closed.

Exactly! We should definitely fund our much-needed infrastructure repairs by cutting corporate taxes and cuts to Social Security and Medicaid. 

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1 hour ago, moleculo said:

I think my favorite part of a (D) president is (R)'s start pretending to be fiscally conservative again.

This WAS my favorite part.  The last four years ruined even that for me.  Now they can't even pretend (yes, I know this was probably true for a couple cycles before this...the last "tax cuts" were the final straw that made me tap).  I guess the good part is we are talking about gas prices again and how some people think they go up and down based on an individual (much like the crazy stock market talk).  I am enjoying the blaming of Biden for the demand going up because things are slowly opening up increasing the demand.  It's not like that would have happened under any other President. :lol: 

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1 hour ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I might also add for those playing along at home, Mrs MoP and I work in philanthropy, we raise money at a hospital. They were raising $5M a year when we arrived 4 year ago, last count was $42M last year. Jupiter Island is where Tiger Woods is recuperating and I bet the CEO of Johnson and Johnson likely has a house next to his, its one of the largest pockets of wealth along a strip of beach in Florida I've ever seen. And we try as hard as we can to separate them from their money without forcing them thru taxes. 

I understand wealth and wealthy people, I run in these circles even though I am not like them. Gift Officers walk a fine line trying to get into these folks heads and what makes them tick. Then I turn around and I got a teacher, an accountant and a Swedish Fish clerk fighting over the definition of Middle Class...

C'mon folks, work with me here. Are we really going to say Middle Class starts at about $16.50 an hour in here? 

:whistle:

Man, my volunteer work at the community garden behind my house even sounds poor now. I rebuilt a pergola this past weekend...

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36 minutes ago, BroadwayG said:

Things to rule out to help the poors:

1. Raising taxes on the rich - the poors will end up paying for it in the end.

2. Raising minimum wage - unemployment skyrockets and the poors lose their jobs

3. Basic income guarantee - See raising taxes on the rich


Moving the poors further down the economic ladder is really the only thing that helps them. If only they could just see that.

Ah yes, the Democrat/Socialist answer is to give them fish, a temporary bandaid that fixes nothing long term.

The Republican answer, which is superior, is to teach them to fish.

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1 hour ago, Redwes25 said:

what kind of logic is it to say 2.6% on mariginal income over 400k is going to stop people from trying to make over 400k

That kind that doesn't take into account math or the meaning of the word marginal.

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1 hour ago, tonydead said:

No one said everyone.  That's the problem with this whole discussion, you want to put everyone in a nice clean bucket, a bucket where somehow buying a new car and frequenting Starbucks makes you rich. 

I promise you where the dollars make sense, there are plenty of people that drive their taxable income down under 40K and take advantage of a lower tax bracket. It's fiscally irresponsible not to.  

With all due respect - do you understand how marginal tax rates work?

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6 hours ago, Mene said:

Regardless, in talking specifically about this proposed plan and the associated taxation, @Shula-holic is making a great point.  Most of us in this thread would fall in middle to upper middle class, and we are arguing with each other about who's got it harder/better.  Meanwhile, once again, the truly wealthy evade fair taxation because we continue to keep capital gains on a separate plane than income under the myth that increased capital gains taxes would reduce investment.  I've yet to hear what vehicle for wealth generation the truly wealthy would move to if capital gains were taxed more fairly, but we are always warned that they will reduce investment if we try it. 

It's the same story over and over, get the middle/upper middle class to punch down, get the lower middle/poor angry at the middle/upper middle, and the rich just continue to accumulate and separate from the rest of us while buying the government they want.

Thanks, and totally agree with all of this.  Just read this thread to see how this already is true and happening while the wealthiest skate.  It's a great playbook, tax the pretty well off, get them to complain a bit, those below the threshold think it's funny this group claims they aren't well off enough to be included as wealthy.  Meanwhile, the ones who are making $1MM in cap gains, the truly wealthy, skate by as the other two groups bicker over whether $400K is well off enough to be the marginal rate cutoff.  The focus always stays on that argument because people get outraged someone doing that well could complain and don't see how those folks are drops in the bucket.

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10 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

That kind that doesn't take into account math or the meaning of the word marginal.

 

8 minutes ago, Steve Tasker said:

With all due respect - do you understand how marginal tax rates work?

exactly :goodposting: 

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21 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

President Wants Yo Money Fool!

After not getting a dime of that stimulus or a slice of the $2Spacezillion they spent on their wealthy buddies around the Globe, this a real kick in the teeth to anyone trying to expand and make a better life. No wonder folks cave and bend to hand outs and losing their will to work. What's the point of trying to get ahead, it's a total myth. The minute you become even marginally valuable they come for your hard earned money. Do you really believe it's easy to earn $150,000-$250,0000 a year in these days we live? I get it that folks live in some areas where money goes a lot further but in the 30 Big Urban Cities where the populations live you gotta have a lot of money just to survive. Most of these cities already have State income taxes on top of Federal with just a few States that are the exception. 

It's mind boggling but I also am sure there is cheering in the streets so probably the entire tone of this thread is completely wrong but it still needs to be said how awful these proposals are that seem all but certain to be passed into law. 

Yep, it’s brutal but it’s what our liberal friends voted for. They call it infrastructure but it’s really just ramming the Unrealistic Green Deal down our throats. 

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20 hours ago, the moops said:

What does it being easy have to do with it? It isn't easy to earn 40K in many parts of the country.

As to the bolded - the highest median household income city in the country is San Jose, at $110,000. Nobody needs 150-250K to survive. That is ludicrous

Technically nobody needs any money to survive. We can live off the land and grow our own food. Raise our own livestock. Hunt for what we need. Incredibly hard work but it can be done.

We don't do that anymore because we've progressed as a society. People get paid what others are willing to pay them for their services and skills. Some people are overpaid, some way under paid. That's how it works. Saying "nobody needs $x to survive" is a failed argument that doesn't get at the heart of the issue. Because when people work hard and get paid, then don't want government coming in and taking it to give to people that they feel don't work as hard as themselves.

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1 hour ago, tonydead said:

:shrug: My company pays for my financial advisor.  If the dollars work, it's fiscally irresponsible not to adjust your AGI to a lower tax bracket. And take advantage of as many loopholes as possible.  Such a weird argument to make assuming people ignore stuff like this. 

If the company pays for your advisor, why would you not be trying to reduce your AGI as much as possible regardless of the bracket?  

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32 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Ah yes, the Democrat/Socialist answer is to give them fish, a temporary bandaid that fixes nothing long term.

The Republican answer, which is superior, is to teach them to fish.

:goodposting:

 

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35 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Ah yes, the Democrat/Socialist answer is to give them fish, a temporary bandaid that fixes nothing long term.

The Republican answer, which is superior, is to teach them to fish.

This is a bigger fishing trip than the original post. 

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37 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Ah yes, the Democrat/Socialist answer is to give them fish, a temporary bandaid that fixes nothing long term.

The Republican answer, which is superior, is to teach them to fish.

What was the Republican's plan for infrastructure?

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37 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Ah yes, the Democrat/Socialist answer is to give them fish, a temporary bandaid that fixes nothing long term.

The Republican answer, which is superior, is to teach them to fish.

And by "give" we mean pay them a fair wage for their labor. 

And by "teach" we mean don't support educational funding.  

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41 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Ah yes, the Democrat/Socialist answer is to give them fish, a temporary bandaid that fixes nothing long term.

The Republican answer, which is superior, is to teach them to fish.

 

The Democrat's answer is to give them a fish from the guy who's freezer has just a bit more fish than is required to sustain his family, but not touching the supply of the guy who has countless freezers full of fish.

The Republican answer is to point to the lake and tell them there are fish in there, providing no instruction nor equipment to get the fish, and disregarding that rampant deregulation they fought for has made the water toxic and the fish poisonous.

Neither presents a long term solution.  

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