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MLB moves All-Star game in response to GA voter laws


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I always enjoy reading IK's posts even when we disagree because he makes his views clear and attempts to explain them in a compelling way.  Here are the two reasons I think he and I see things so diff

Right, and I'm not engaging with people being dishonest about what this is, and pretending a 98 page bill is about presenting an ID in order to vote. These laws aren't a reaction to voter fraud,

I just read the statement.  Good grief, what do you agree with?  LOL! "This law, like so many others being pursued by Republicans in statehouses across the country is a blatant attack on the Cons

The latest in let's make everything political. Does anyone care about the MLB all star game anyway?

Yet Kevin Durant to go full homophobic slurs and hardly a word being said compared to other athletes (including the NBA) who have been suspended.   

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

The latest in let's make everything political. Does anyone care about the MLB all star game anyway?

Yet Kevin Durant to go full homophobic slurs and hardly a word being said compared to other athletes (including the NBA) who have been suspended.   

It’s a very significant move by MLB. Loss of this event is a big deal finically and could snowball quickly.

To be honest I haven’t looked to closely at the Georgia law changes 

Agreed on the Durant point, very surprised if he doesn’t get suspended. Haven’t looked at how NBA has handled that stuff though either.

 

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I have a ticket deal with the Braves, it'll hurt my bottom line losing a few ASG tickets but after Covid and 2020 it's mostly a drop in the bucket business wise for me.  I'd already budgeted for the game to be moved when it first was discussed.  I don't have a lot of love for the Braves organization over some issues we've had along the way but nothing they can do about this one.  I don't really care what the residents of GA do, it's their call.  The funny thing is the city of Atlanta is what turned the state blue.  The largest impacts are on those communities.  MLB can virtue signal all they want but it'll impact the people and businesses in Atlanta more than anything else.  MLB and specifically the MLBPA want the media mob behind them before the labor strife that is about to come which always ends up in MLB losing fans.  Don't be fooled into thinking MLB or the MLBPA care about anything but themselves, that's all they ever have cared about.

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5 minutes ago, The General said:

It’s a very significant move by MLB. Loss of this event is a big deal finically and could snowball quickly.

To be honest I haven’t looked to closely at the Georgia law changes 

Agreed on the Durant point, very surprised if he doesn’t get suspended. Haven’t looked at how NBA has handled that stuff though either.

 

Meyers Leonard was suspended within 24 hours for a week I believe.  
 

Stunned the Durant news hasn't made the LGBTQ++++ thread yet

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Meyers Leonard was suspended within 24 hours for a week I believe.  
 

Stunned the Durant news hasn't made the LGBTQ++++ thread yet

Not a big NBA fan so haven’t read much about either of these but have heard the gist of both. Durant is a very unlikable player. Always seems miserable.

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2 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

Georgia Republicans should respond by threatening to kick the Braves out of the state. That'll show 'em!

There aren't very many Republicans in Atlanta to know the difference.

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Good for MLB. The Delta tax thing was vindictive and deplorable. My hope is the GA legislators wind up in an unwinnable game of whacamole. Also it is a strong message to other states... this crap is not going to fly under radars anymore.

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Just now, BigJim® said:

Good for MLB. The Delta tax thing was vindictive and deplorable. My hope is the GA legislators wind up in an unwinnable game of whacamole. Also it is a strong message to other states... this crap is not going to fly under radars anymore.

What was the Delta tax?

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1 minute ago, The General said:

I do wonder if artists who are aligned with MLB’s thinking start canceling gigs in GA.

Saw movie people talking about this with working there.

I think they have this backwards but what do I know.  I realize people want to "punish" states or communities for differences in beliefs, but I don't think trying to hurt people financially usually brings them around to your view.  If they want to try that approach, go for it.  Most of the venues in GA are in Atlanta, so again the fallout would hit way more Democrats than Republicans.

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1 minute ago, The General said:
1 minute ago, BigJim® said:

Good for MLB. The Delta tax thing was vindictive and deplorable. My hope is the GA legislators wind up in an unwinnable game of whacamole. Also it is a strong message to other states... this crap is not going to fly under radars anymore.

What was the Delta tax?

Georgia House votes to strip Delta Airlines of tax break worth $10+ million dollars

Apparently they are going after Coca-Cola as well.

Doesn't seem very smart to bite the hand that feeds them, but we'll see how it plays out.

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1 minute ago, The General said:

What was the Delta tax?

I’m not sure if it is actually final but my understanding is GA house passed a bill to eliminate a fuel tax cut that hurt Delta after its CEO made negative statements about the new voter laws. Champions of the first amendment.

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I'm not going to lie, I dont follow Georgia politics, but what about any of this is "Racist" 

https://www.savannahnow.com/in-depth/news/2021/03/31/sb-202-georgia-voter-law-text-details-pdf/7001807002/

Quote

 

The bill replaces the controversial signature match system with an ID requirement for absentee ballots. Voters must use their driver’s license, state ID, voter card, or last four digits of their social security number to verify who they are when returning the ballot.

SB 202 also calls for counties to have increased early voting access. Counties must have two early voting periods on Saturday. Sunday early voting will be optional with it taking place between 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. and the option to extend hours from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.

 

Quote

 

The absentee ballot request period is shorter, starting 11-weeks before the elections and ending 11 days before.

Runoff elections are shortened to four weeks instead of nine.

Tightens requirements for county elections supervisors, such as requiring them to have absentee ballots counted by 5 p.m. the day after elections.

Bans the use of mobile voting buses for early voting except in emergencies.

Drop boxes have been authorized for use by law, but are only available during early voting hours and are placed inside early voting locations. There is also a population cap on how many can be set up. Drop boxes can be capped at one per 100,000 active voters in the county or one for every early voting location. Counties must choose between the smaller of the two. Drop boxes will only be accessible during early voting.

Passing out food and drink to voters is also criminalized and partisan poll watchers will have to undergo training. Poll workers can pass out water to voters.

The Secretary of State would no longer chair the State Election Board, and would instead be appointed by legislators.

 

 

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Just now, Shula-holic said:

I think they have this backwards but what do I know.  I realize people want to "punish" states or communities for differences in beliefs, but I don't think trying to hurt people financially usually brings them around to your view.  If they want to try that approach, go for it.  Most of the venues in GA are in Atlanta, so again the fallout would hit way more Democrats than Republicans.

We will see what impact this has. 

People get to choose what they want to do all around. MLB will face backlash for sure. 

By doing this it draws a ton of attention to what is going on. I’d venture many people will look into this now who hadn’t before.

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2 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

I think they have this backwards but what do I know.  I realize people want to "punish" states or communities for differences in beliefs, but I don't think trying to hurt people financially usually brings them around to your view.  If they want to try that approach, go for it.  Most of the venues in GA are in Atlanta, so again the fallout would hit way more Democrats than Republicans.

We're not talking about a difference of belief here. We're talking about actual laws which have been implemented.

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Just now, The General said:

We will see what impact this has. 

People get to choose what they want to do all around. MLB will face backlash for sure. 

By doing this it draws a ton of attention to what is going on. I’d venture many people will look into this now who hadn’t before.

Having been around it, like I said before, 2% of the MLBPA couldn't give you three accurate factual statements about this bill.  This is PR trying to get media praise.  Coincidentally, there just happens to be a work stoppage on the horizon.  

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2 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

Georgia House votes to strip Delta Airlines of tax break worth $10+ million dollars

Apparently they are going after Coca-Cola as well.

Doesn't seem very smart to bite the hand that feeds them, but we'll see how it plays out.

I’m having pronoun confusion in your final paragraph, but if you are referring to corporations, it’s past time for them to speak up if they learned anything from the big lie, and it’s potential ramifications to our democracy. The idea of states passing laws enabling replacement of election officials who are strong is a legitimate threat.

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3 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

MLB didn't say that the laws were racist, so I'm not sure why it's being brought up here.

ESPN says they did

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Major League Baseball is moving the 2021 All-Star Game and 2021 draft out of Atlanta in response to a new Georgia voting law that critics say unfairly limits access to the ballot box, especially for people of color.

"Over the last week, we have engaged in thoughtful conversations with Clubs, former and current players, the Players Association, and The Players Alliance, among others, to listen to their views," MLB commissioner Rob Manfred said in a statement. "I have decided that the best way to demonstrate our values as a sport is by relocating this year's All-Star Game and MLB Draft."

The decision follows calls from the White House to consider moving the Midsummer Classic out of Atlanta. President Joe Biden told ESPN on Wednesday that he would "strongly support" pulling the game out of Atlanta because of a law he described as "Jim Crow on steroids."

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

We're not talking about a difference of belief here. We're talking about actual laws which have been implemented.

There's lots of laws on the books in various locales I don't agree with, it's exactly what we are talking about.

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1 minute ago, Shula-holic said:

Having been around it, like I said before, 2% of the MLBPA couldn't give you three accurate factual statements about this bill.  This is PR trying to get media praise.  Coincidentally, there just happens to be a work stoppage on the horizon.  

I’m guessing we’ll hear from a few players on this but they probably didn’t have a say it’s the organization not players union making the call.

I’m certain those people weighed this decision and are aware of the laws.

PR of course weighs in on that decision.

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1 minute ago, glvsav37 said:

The laws are a mix of election security and voter suppression.   The voter suppression measures will affect urban areas with higher minority populations.   To many people, that's racist.   It's really not racist, it's political.   The Georgia GOP would try to suppress Democratic voters regardless of their color.

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1 minute ago, BigJim® said:
7 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

Georgia House votes to strip Delta Airlines of tax break worth $10+ million dollars

Apparently they are going after Coca-Cola as well.

Doesn't seem very smart to bite the hand that feeds them, but we'll see how it plays out.

I’m having pronoun confusion in your final paragraph, but if you are referring to corporations, it’s past time for them to speak up if they learned anything from the big lie, and it’s potential ramifications to our democracy. The idea of states passing laws enabling replacement of election officials who are strong is a legitimate threat.

My point is that a lot Georgia Republicans are financially supported -- either directly or indirectly -- by Delta and Coke. It doesn't seem very smart to antagonize those companies, their employees, and their customers.

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Just now, The General said:

I’m guessing we’ll hear from a few players on this but they probably didn’t have a say it’s the organization not players union making the call.

I’m certain those people weighed this decision and are aware of the laws.

PR of course weighs in on that decision.

It is the players union who began this, I pulled the budget when Tony Clark made a statement about it.  It wasn't MLB at all but in the end Manfred is going along with it because it makes sense for them to.  And honestly, kudos to them for stirring this up right before a work stoppage likely is to occur.  This will take some heat off them which helps them out tremendously.

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Just now, -fish- said:

The laws are a mix of election security and voter suppression.   The voter suppression measures will affect urban areas with higher minority populations.   To many people, that's racist.   It's really not racist, it's political.   The Georgia GOP would try to suppress Democratic voters regardless of their color.

can you tell me which ones are aimed at voter suppression? 

at best (from what I posted, and again i'm not up on GA laws, areas or demographics), maybe the Mobile Buses and the drop boxes. But overall I dont see anything that specifically limits anyone other then just clarifying dates and security measures 

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Just now, Sea Duck said:

My point is that a lot Georgia Republicans are financially supported -- either directly or indirectly -- by Delta and Coke. It doesn't seem very smart to antagonize those companies, their employees, and their customers.

Ahh, that makes sense. I was confused because one GA legislator (outlandishly IMHO) made the same ‘Delta shouldn’t bite the hand...” when justifying the bill to eliminate a tax cut as retribution. Delta CEO took the high road and said this is about the rights of Americans, not money.

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2 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

It is the players union who began this, I pulled the budget when Tony Clark made a statement about it.  It wasn't MLB at all but in the end Manfred is going along with it because it makes sense for them to.  And honestly, kudos to them for stirring this up right before a work stoppage likely is to occur.  This will take some heat off them which helps them out tremendously.

Interesting. 

I will be following what happens now with these laws and how this works out.

 

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The initial voting law proposal would've stopped Sunday voting. That was definitely racist and was removed from the bill. Will it still be illegal to give voters in long lines a bottle of water?

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6 minutes ago, glvsav37 said:

can you tell me which ones are aimed at voter suppression? 

at best (from what I posted, and again i'm not up on GA laws, areas or demographics), maybe the Mobile Buses and the drop boxes. But overall I dont see anything that specifically limits anyone other then just clarifying dates and security measures 

Setting aside the ridiculous criminalization of giving water to someone that's waiting in line to vote, "Clarifying dates" isn't as simple as that.  As an example:

 

Quote

Georgians working outside their home precincts used to be able to vote where they were, not just where they lived. Now, even that’s prohibited until the arbitrary time of 5 p.m., depriving many voters stuck far from home of the choice of casting a provisional ballot. Those who are stuck in this predicament — perhaps because they work nights or simply don’t have the time to stand in those long Georgia voting lines — will now have to sign an affidavit attesting to why they couldn’t get home in time.

Why would you let people vote where they are after 5 pm, but not before, if you aren't trying to prevent working people from voting?

If you look at the bill as a whole, it's a lot less about election security and a lot more about making it more difficult for working people to vote.

Democrats (including black voters) were far more likely to vote by mail.   This bill makes voting by mail more difficult, despite no actual evidence of any problem with voting by mail.

Voter ID requirements are similar.  It's an additional hurdle to voting to address a problem that doesn't exist.   There was no evidence to support claims of voter fraud.   

Requiring drop boxes to be located inside early-voting locations essentially defeats the purpose of having drop boxes.

Shortening the time for runoff elections is a direct result of the GOP losing the runoffs.   In every case, the GOP's action is aimed at less people voting, because they believe that it favors GOP candidates if less people vote.   That only makes sense when large urban areas are heavily Democrat.   

 

 

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3 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

The initial voting law proposal would've stopped Sunday voting. That was definitely racist and was removed from the bill. Will it still be illegal to give voters in long lines a bottle of water?

Yes, that's part of the law that Kemp signed.

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Also, all MLB clubs require you to use Ticketmaster mobile for entry.  They no longer issue hard tickets, and it's for a reason.  They want your information, to control what you can do with your ticket.  You have to supply the teams with your ID, email, mobile phone, so they can direct market to you before, during, and after the game.  Also they force you to use their channels for resale and transfer by forcing tickets through TM, they get to dictate those terms and collect in those fees through that info they've forced you to provide.   All this is due to them wanting to collect your ID and personal information and monetize it.  Since they have changed their view apparently,  I'll be waiting for them to relax those tactics with bated breath.

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7 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

The initial voting law proposal would've stopped Sunday voting. That was definitely racist and was removed from the bill. Will it still be illegal to give voters in long lines a bottle of water?

Poll workers are allowed to distribute water under the law,  I believe this part was aimed at campaigns doing so.

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1 minute ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Such a horrible decision by MLB. Incredibly short sighted virtue signal. Do they think Georgia will change the laws to get the all star game back?

That's why I think this is a PR move, likely due to the work stoppage that could occur after this year.  Maybe it would have happened anyway, but Bud Selig faced pressure maybe 10 years ago to move the ASG from Phoenix and elected not to.  When I ask myself what does MLB and the MLBPA have to gain from this, it's the media goodwill before a bad story is what I keep coming back to.  Maybe there's something else I'm not seeing, but they definitely see a gain somewhere in it.  I learned long long ago, that when it comes to MLB and the MLBPA, you always need to ask "What's in it for them?" because they aren't here to run a charity or a feel good operation.

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16 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

The initial voting law proposal would've stopped Sunday voting. That was definitely racist and was removed from the bill. Will it still be illegal to give voters in long lines a bottle of water?

I don't think it's fair to assume that the motive was racist, unless there's evidence that Sunday voters are overwhelmingly non-white.

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If there is a work stoppage after the season, I highly doubt anyone will give either the owners or the players a pass, simply because they moved the all-star game.

 

Having said that - I doubt MLB is doing this strictly out of the goodness of their heart.  This would have been an unwanted distraction from now until July.  Now, it buys them a little positive PR right at the start of the season.

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4 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

I don't think it's fair to assume that the motive was racist, unless there's evidence that Sunday voters are overwhelmingly non-white.

There's a very well-known program/tradition in Georgia, where the black churches organize get out the vote before (or after) service.  It's a despicable act by a bunch of racists.  

 

Republicans calling to boycott MLB.  Should we move this to the Cancel Culture thread?????

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4 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

I don't think it's fair to assume that the motive was racist, unless there's evidence that Sunday voters are overwhelmingly non-white.

My understanding this was in fact to slow the "Souls to the Polls" movement that many black churches undertook to get members to the polls after Sunday services.

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

If there is a work stoppage after the season, I highly doubt anyone will give either the owners or the players a pass, simply because they moved the all-star game.

 

Having said that - I doubt MLB is doing this strictly out of the goodness of their heart.  This would have been an unwanted distraction from now until July.  Now, it buys them a little positive PR right at the start of the season.

If not a pass, certainly a blunted reaction.  It will be like listening to the Sistine Choir tonight on ESPN singing their praises over this.  Like I said, good business move likely on their part IMO.  They'll get a nice cut out of whatever city they give this game to as well.  I personally lost in it, as will Atlanta businesses, but can see their gain and it's just business.

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15 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Such a horrible decision by MLB. Incredibly short sighted virtue signal. Do they think Georgia will change the laws to get the all star game back?

Worked for the NFL when Arizona refused to recognize Martin Luther King day.   If MLB, Coca-Cola, Delta and the film industry put the economic hurt to Georgia, the legislators will cave and repeal the worst aspects of this law.   These companies butter their bread.  

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Just now, -fish- said:

Worked for the NFL when Arizona refused to recognize Martin Luther King day.   If MLB, Coca-Cola, Delta and the film industry put the economic hurt to Georgia, the legislators will cave and repeal the worst aspects of this law.   These companies butter their bread.  

As a businessman, how exactly is Delta for example going to put the economic hurt to Atlanta?  Give up their hub and doom themselves to bankruptcy?

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1 minute ago, Sinn Fein said:
9 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

I don't think it's fair to assume that the motive was racist, unless there's evidence that Sunday voters are overwhelmingly non-white.

My understanding this was in fact to slow the "Souls to the Polls" movement that many black churches undertook to get members to the polls after Sunday services.

I'm not disputing the existence of "Souls to the polls" programs. I'm just saying that if the raw voting stats show that Sunday voting demographics are similar to the demographics on other days of the week, then I wouldn't necessarily assume that the move is "racist".

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25 minutes ago, -fish- said:

Setting aside the ridiculous criminalization of giving water to someone that's waiting in line to vote, "Clarifying dates" isn't as simple as that.  As an example:

 

Why would you let people vote where they are after 5 pm, but not before, if you aren't trying to prevent working people from voting?

If you look at the bill as a whole, it's a lot less about election security and a lot more about making it more difficult for working people to vote.

Democrats (including black voters) were far more likely to vote by mail.   This bill makes voting by mail more difficult, despite no actual evidence of any problem with voting by mail.

Voter ID requirements are similar.  It's an additional hurdle to voting to address a problem that doesn't exist.   There was no evidence to support claims of voter fraud.   

Requiring drop boxes to be located inside early-voting locations essentially defeats the purpose of having drop boxes.

Shortening the time for runoff elections is a direct result of the GOP losing the runoffs.   In every case, the GOP's action is aimed at less people voting, because they believe that it favors GOP candidates if less people vote.   That only makes sense when large urban areas are heavily Democrat.   

 

 

thanks, as I said, I'm not up on the direct GA talking points. I see where you are going and can agree in part.

I will say that I am a pro-voter ID guy and this bill at least has a few options for "identifying" yourself, even up to just your SSN. 

As for making it illegal to "give voters water" its a sad but true state of affairs that even something as small as a bottle of water could entice someone to vote. But I don't dobt it happens. 

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1 minute ago, Shula-holic said:

If not a pass, certainly a blunted reaction.  It will be like listening to the Sistine Choir tonight on ESPN singing their praises over this.  Like I said, good business move likely on their part IMO.  They'll get a nice cut out of whatever city they give this game to as well.  I personally lost in it, as will Atlanta businesses, but can see their gain and it's just business.

Seriously?

If there is a work stoppage - nobody will care about the previous all-star game.  It won't move the needle one inch - in terms of positive PR for or against the owners or the players.

Certainly it buys them some good will right now., but this will last about a week, and then again in July when the all-star game takes place.  But after that - it has zero goodwill value.

 

I couldn't even tell you now, if this is an owner-driven move, or a player-driven move. 

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