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MLB moves All-Star game in response to GA voter laws


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7 minutes ago, Hoodoo said:

Fewer to have to maintain, manage & secure. Every county still gets at least one & counties with larger populations get more. Outside of a pandemic situation, most of the drop boxes they currently have would remain empty and/or receive very few ballots. Why keep that many if most of them are not going to be used and it only takes a few more minutes to travel to the next one?

How much maintenance is needed for a drop box?

How do you know most of the drop boxes would remain empty or receive only a few ballots?

Fulton county will be reduced from 36 down to about one forth of 23, so let’s say 6.

What is Fulton county going to do with the other 30 boxes that they already have? Leave them in storage?

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33 minutes ago, Rubiobot said:

What is the benefit of fewer drop boxes? 

I don't know but it sure isn't making sure the elections are more secure, which is what the new law is allegedly for

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1 minute ago, Yenrub said:

How much maintenance is needed for a drop box?

How do you know most of the drop boxes would remain empty or receive only a few ballots?

Fulton county will be reduced from 36 down to about one forth of 23, so let’s say 6.

What is Fulton county going to do with the other 30 boxes that they already have? Leave them in storage?

You're tweaking words a bit here, I said maintain and that's a bit different from maintenance. I'm not talking about painting & repairing. I'm talking about monitoring, poll workers having to go to each box and collecting the ballots etc. The state of Georgia assume that, now that we are coming out of the pandemic, most people will go back to in-person voting. I feel like that's a fair assumption based on how I feel about it. So I think it's a fair assumption as well that the drop box usage will go down drastically as well. Keep also in mind, we don't know what the numbers were for usage even during the pandemic. It may be a situation where they had too many even then. Who cares what they do with the other boxes? Sure, put them in storage and replace ones that need repair with the one in storage.

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6 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I don't know but it sure isn't making sure the elections are more secure, which is what the new law is allegedly for

Fewer boxes to monitor and secure doesn't make it more secure? If you've got 20 people to secure drop boxes. Which would be easier to secure, 100 or 20?

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11 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I don't know but it sure isn't making sure the elections are more secure, which is what the new law is allegedly for

Reducing the number of boxes and moving them indoors does make the more secure, whether you admit it or not. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

More secure for Republican victory. Not much else security at play here.  

One party tends to riot and turn a blind eye to lawlessness.  Would anyone put it past the left to tamper with drop boxes left unprotected in historically Republican voting areas?  I certainly would not. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

More secure for Republican victory. Not much else security at play here.  

Are Democrat voters not allowed inside buildings now or incapable of travelling a couple more miles now? Are they incapable of putting an envelope in a mail box or handing it to their postman?

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4 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Reducing the number of boxes and moving them indoors does make the more secure, whether you admit it or not. 

We've had mailboxes on every corner of our cities for decades. Yet they're secure. The dropbox I used was very similar to a standard corner mailbox. Was there any evidence these boxes weren't secure? Again, it seems like we're trying to solve problems that don't exist.

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Repeating one more time because there are people here who refuse to understand why this is a racist law: it is a racist law because the people that wrote it carefully examined all of the ways black voting increased in the last two elections, and then deliberately targeted all of those increases in order to make voting more difficult. When you target black voting and try to decrease it, you’re behaving in a racist, Jim Crow fashion. That’s why all of the analogies made by Biden, MLB and others are accurate. 

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1 minute ago, knowledge dropper said:

One party tends to riot and turn a blind eye to lawlessness.  Would anyone put it past the left to tamper with drop boxes left unprotected in historically Republican voting areas?  I certainly would not. 

Link to lawlessness in a recent Georgia election? 

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9 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Reducing the number of boxes and moving them indoors does make the more secure, whether you admit it or not. 

Because they moved them indoors, drop off boxes are no longer 24/7 in Georgia making it harder for people who work during the day to drop off their ballots.

Edited by Bucsfan5493
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1 minute ago, Amused to Death said:

We've had mailboxes on every corner of our cities for decades. Yet they're secure. The dropbox I used was very similar to a standard corner mailbox. Was there any evidence these boxes weren't secure? Again, it seems like we're trying to solve problems that don't exist.

Dropbox laws didnt exist at all until now. They could have simply went back to pre-pandemic voting. 

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56 minutes ago, Rubiobot said:

What is the benefit of fewer drop boxes? 

Less places to maintain and keep secure. If there are going to be less people voting by mail as estimated, why have that many out there if they're not needed.

Edited by Insein
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2 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Because they moved them indoors, drop off boxes are no longer 24/7 in Georgia making it harder for people who during the day to drop off their ballots.

Mail runs every day but Sunday.

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4 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Dropbox laws didnt exist at all until now. They could have simply went back to pre-pandemic voting. 

Why would you go back to the pre-pandemic voting process that resulted in less people voting? Unless you want less people to vote...

Edited by Bucsfan5493
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26 minutes ago, msudaisy26 said:

Completely separate issue and without going into all the details this probably false. The MLB is jury and executioner on where they do their business. 

Then the Braves should get a say.  You just can’t strip them of it, well I guess you can.  

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1 minute ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Dropbox laws didnt exist at all until now. They could have simply went back to pre-pandemic voting. 

Exactly, and GA had a record turnout and people loved it without issue. So why are changes necessary?

Meanwhile, reliably red (and a red state that remained red) is looking to *increase* voter turnout.

Both the Mail-Ballot Amendments and Ballot Tracking Amendments are bills designed to help Utahns in the voting process. More votes would be counted under Rep. King’s bill by allowing for mail-in ballots to be postmarked by Election Day. The Ballot Tracking Amendments gives voters access to know the status of their ballot from a text message helping ensure transparency in how Utah runs elections.

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Repeating one more time because there are people here who refuse to understand why this is a racist law: it is a racist law because the people that wrote it carefully examined all of the ways black voting increased in the last two elections, and then deliberately targeted all of those increases in order to make voting more difficult. When you target black voting and try to decrease it, you’re behaving in a racist, Jim Crow fashion. That’s why all of the analogies made by Biden, MLB and others are accurate. 

This argument is so disingenuous it's not even funny. It's not even close to being difficult or impossible to vote by mail in Georgia. Anyone who did it before and still wants to, there is plenty of opportunity to do so and it appears to be very simple.

 

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13 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Repeating one more time because there are people here who refuse to understand why this is a racist law: it is a racist law because the people that wrote it carefully examined all of the ways black voting increased in the last two elections, and then deliberately targeted all of those increases in order to make voting more difficult. When you target black voting and try to decrease it, you’re behaving in a racist, Jim Crow fashion. That’s why all of the analogies made by Biden, MLB and others are accurate. 

Tim knows!!

Expanding the forms of acceptable ID was calculated to be racist?  Why would that be included if the intent was racist?

Extending early voting days to weekends was calculated to be racist?  Why would that be included if the intent was racist?

Including requirements to reduce time in polling lines was calculated to be racist?  Why would that be included if the intent was racist?

Is it possible a bunch of changes were made to improve the availability and security of the voting process and you are focused solely on the specific elements that you and MSM have pre decided must have been writen by racists because they’re not on your team?

Im with IvanK on drop boxes.  Regular mailboxes work, no?  Why is this even an issue?  What’s the obsession with Dropboxes that it seems were a specific covid response.

Edited by djmich
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16 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Repeating one more time because there are people here who refuse to understand why this is a racist law: it is a racist law because the people that wrote it carefully examined all of the ways black voting increased in the last two elections, and then deliberately targeted all of those increases in order to make voting more difficult. When you target black voting and try to decrease it, you’re behaving in a racist, Jim Crow fashion. That’s why all of the analogies made by Biden, MLB and others are accurate. 

A bit odd. The black man that was quoted for the story didnt mention any of that....I assume because he has no proof it actually happened. Im glad we have an insider here at the FBG!

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2 minutes ago, djmich said:

Tim knows!!

Expanding the forms of acceptable ID was calculated to be racist?  Why would that be included if the intent was racist?

Extending early voting days to weekends was calculated to be racist?  Why would that be included if the intent was racist?

Including requirements to reduce time in polling lines was calculated to be racist?  Why would that be included if the intent was racist?

Is it possible a bunch of changes were made to improve the availability and security of the voting process and you are focused solely on the specific elements that you and MSM have pre decided must have been writer racists because they’re not on your team?

Im with IvanK on drop boxes.  Regular mailboxes work, no?  Why is this even an issue?  What’s the obsession with Dropboxes that it seems were a specific covid response.

Not just the availability & security, but also steps to improve voter confidence in the system. I think that's a big aspect that a lot of people are missing. A lot of people, rightly or wrongly, are losing confidence in the validity & security of our election process. We shouldn't have issue with states taking measures to try to quell those concerns as long as it doesn't take away our ability, which these laws do not seem to do at all. Anyone who was capable of voting in the last election is still capable of voting in the next election & by the same means they prefer.

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6 minutes ago, Hoodoo said:

Not just the availability & security, but also steps to improve voter confidence in the system. I think that's a big aspect that a lot of people are missing. A lot of people, rightly or wrongly, are losing confidence in the validity & security of our election process. We shouldn't have issue with states taking measures to try to quell those concerns as long as it doesn't take away our ability, which these laws do not seem to do at all. Anyone who was capable of voting in the last election is still capable of voting in the next election & by the same means they prefer.

Why do you think the bolded it true?

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28 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

We've had mailboxes on every corner of our cities for decades. Yet they're secure. The dropbox I used was very similar to a standard corner mailbox. Was there any evidence these boxes weren't secure? Again, it seems like we're trying to solve problems that don't exist.

I believe Georgia placed their drop boxes in places where they could be monitored by city cameras. I doubt those cameras were put up specifically for the drop boxes and I doubt they would have taken them down once the election was over.

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29 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

One party tends to riot and turn a blind eye to lawlessness.  Would anyone put it past the left to tamper with drop boxes left unprotected in historically Republican voting areas?  I certainly would not. 

One party?  The one that crashed the Capitol?

Has there been anyone tampering with these boxes?

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Just now, Yenrub said:

I believe Georgia placed their drop boxes in places where they could be monitored by city cameras. I doubt those cameras were put up specifically for the drop boxes and I doubt they would have taken them down once the election was over.

A point I forgot to include. You literally can't go anywhere in a city without being on a security camera. Hell, they may even be *more* secure out on the streets than locked in a building we can't monitor. 

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29 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Then the Braves should get a say.  You just can’t strip them of it, well I guess you can.  

no way Braves move their games - too much money involved

a token move like the all star game is one thing, but losing baseball money is another entirely 

and for nothing more than a fair and equal law that is no more strict than most states has .... what a political fiasco 

 

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3 hours ago, Mile High said:

Why go back to the days of voting before the pandemic? The people of this country got behind the new ways of voting by responding with record turnouts. 

You answered your own question. The Republicans want to lower turnout. 

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47 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Dropbox laws didnt exist at all until now. They could have simply went back to pre-pandemic voting. 

They also could have simply left it like it was in 2020.

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In Florida, voting laws are also changing against the advice of both Republican and Democrat supervisors of elections, and the acknowledgement that 2020 was conducted with very high credibility.

The justification:

>>make elections even more secure by installing more “guard rails on the highway to make sure no one runs off.”

“The challenge is that you don’t know what you don’t know,” <<

Sounds convincing.

Republican plan to make it harder to vote by mail in Florida seen as ‘massive voter suppression’

Miami-Dade Elections Supervisor trashes GOP’s proposed vote-by-mail changes

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Just now, Amused to Death said:

So why did they put out drop boxes?

Maybe this:

>>Drop boxes used by 1.5 million Florida voters last year to turn in their ballots, would be eliminated. They proved popular last year as Election Day drew closer and an unusual series of Postal Service bottlenecks made many voters wary of using the mail to return their ballots. Even election officials warned the mail could no longer be counted on the way it used to be.<<

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-florida-senate-republicans-restrict-mail-voting-20210310-7fg7ny2udjestlk323qadop2vi-story.html%3foutputType=amp

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1 hour ago, djmich said:

Tim knows!!

Expanding the forms of acceptable ID was calculated to be racist?  Why would that be included if the intent was racist?

Extending early voting days to weekends was calculated to be racist?  Why would that be included if the intent was racist?

Including requirements to reduce time in polling lines was calculated to be racist?  Why would that be included if the intent was racist?

Is it possible a bunch of changes were made to improve the availability and security of the voting process and you are focused solely on the specific elements that you and MSM have pre decided must have been writen by racists because they’re not on your team?

Im with IvanK on drop boxes.  Regular mailboxes work, no?  Why is this even an issue?  What’s the obsession with Dropboxes that it seems were a specific covid response.

Lol. No I don’t have a crystal ball. I know what’s obvious, though. If every black driver on the freeway was getting off at a certain exit, and suddenly you passed a law that closed that exit five days a week and restricted the other two days to those with a special sticker on the car, I would naturally assume that you’re trying to keep black people from using that exit. I wouldn’t need to be in the room to make such an assumption. 

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This discussion is highly reminiscent to me of the travel ban arguments we had right after Trump took office. Trumpers would come in here and say, “oh it’s not anti-Muslim, because look it only targets these countries, and it doesn’t actually SAY Muslim, yadda yadda etc.”. But everybody knew what was going on. They knew because Trump said what he wanted to do before the election. He couldn’t come right out and ban Muslims, that wouldn’t fly legally, so he and Miller did the worst they could get away with. 
 

It’s the same thing here. Republicans in Georgia aren’t going to pass a law that would blatantly restrict blacks from voting. So they do what they can and it should be obvious to everyone. But please don’t give us this crap about added security. 

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1 hour ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Why would you go back to the pre-pandemic voting process that resulted in less people voting? Unless you want less people to vote...

Exactly.  We had record voter turn out. The only reason to go back and not forward is because you want less people voting.

Edited by Mile High
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2 hours ago, Hoodoo said:

Why not go back to what was working for them before the pandemic rather than use something that was specifically designed for a pandemic situation? The state of Georgia is obviously not expecting 1.3 million people to continue to vote by mail or use the drop boxes. Reducing the number of drop boxes that the state has to manage/maintain/secure then makes sense.

There were a great many who didn't believe the voting laws pre pandemic were "working".  You're starting with a faulty assumption if they are to be believed.  The answer for leaving them in place is, ironically, the same answer for why the GOP wants them removed and that is "because they are more convenient making it easier for more people to vote".  I am absolutely confident that if Georgia left in place voting by mail and addressed some of the issues they ran into rather than just scrapping it, within a cycle or two many MORE than 1.3 million would be voting by mail.  

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1 hour ago, knowledge dropper said:

One party tends to riot and turn a blind eye to lawlessness.  Would anyone put it past the left to tamper with drop boxes left unprotected in historically Republican voting areas?  I certainly would not. 

 

1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

One party?  The one that crashed the Capitol?

Has there been anyone tampering with these boxes?

California Republican Party Admits It Placed Misleading Ballot Boxes Around State

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16 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Lol. No I don’t have a crystal ball. I know what’s obvious, though. If every black driver on the freeway was getting off at a certain exit, and suddenly you passed a law that closed that exit five days a week and restricted the other two days to those with a special sticker on the car, I would naturally assume that you’re trying to keep black people from using that exit. I wouldn’t need to be in the room to make such an assumption. 

So you’re just going to ignore the elements that were in my post that make it easier for all drivers including black ones to get off at the exit?

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33 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

In Florida, voting laws are also changing against the advice of both Republican and Democrat supervisors of elections, and the acknowledgement that 2020 was conducted with very high credibility.

The justification:

>>make elections even more secure by installing more “guard rails on the highway to make sure no one runs off.”

“The challenge is that you don’t know what you don’t know,” <<

Sounds convincing.

Republican plan to make it harder to vote by mail in Florida seen as ‘massive voter suppression’

Miami-Dade Elections Supervisor trashes GOP’s proposed vote-by-mail changes

Hey GB....did you happen to listen to Florida Round Up on March 26th?  This interview tells you all you need to know for the "why" behind the changes.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/581685413/the-florida-roundup

Go to the March 26th episode titled "Florida's Pandemic Response; Proposed Voting Changes"

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5 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Anyone who thinks they had record turnout because of voting boxes is delusional

There's that, and then there's a whole extra layer of "Who are you actually even arguing with?" added on.  I haven't followed this super-closely, but has anybody actually claimed that drop boxes are bad as a matter of principle?  I don't mean "Drop boxes are costly to maintain, the marginal cost of the last drop box exceeded the marginal benefit, and therefore we should have fewer of them," I mean "We should abolish drop boxes altogether because . . . . " 

I haven't personally seen anyone make that argument, but from the overheated tone of this discussion you would think there was a really adamant anti-drop-box constituency that was just waiting for pro-democracy people to let their guard down for a just a second so they could grab all the drop boxes.  

I mean, even the super-racist Bull Connor clones who wrote this legislation in Georgia for the express purpose of reinstituting Jim Crow and probably re-segregating public schools didn't abolish drop boxes.  Where is this even coming from?

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For example, I've seen lots of people argue against mail-in voting.  I don't think I've ever seen a single person take the position that mail-in voting is okay but drop-boxes are bad.  I like to think I'm pretty creative and I've sunk quite a few XP into Sophistry over the years, and I can't even come up with how you would make such an argument.

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2 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Reducing the number of boxes and moving them indoors does make the more secure, whether you admit it or not. 

How in the world does anyone believe this?

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21 minutes ago, djmich said:

So you’re just going to ignore the elements that were in my post that make it easier for all drivers including black ones to get off at the exit?

It's like when a group passes a 98 page bill because they didn't like the results of an election, and people ignore every part of it except presenting an ID.

Isn't that annoying?

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