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MLB moves All-Star game in response to GA voter laws


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2 hours ago, Shula-holic said:

😆 You mean the ones where you budget loss when you are doing your pricing and inventory cost?  Yeah, that’s the same. 

At the top of the previous page, the discussion was about low income earners, which everyone can agree are getting screwed by losing out on a weeks worth of extra hours because they live in a state with a terrible government. Lower income people does not equte to people (companies) who make licensed apparrel for MLB and "knick knacks." If your argument is about knick knack makers getting screwed out of the money they paid their finance division to project profit and loss based on bad information, then wah wah wah those poor companies.

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5 hours ago, timschochet said:

Your two examples don’t make any sense because there’s no specific solution in either case. In this case we have an unjust, racist law which should never have been passed. 

But the moral MLB who is concerned with human rights just signed a deal with a Chinese company owned by the government.

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20 minutes ago, thriftyrocker said:

At the top of the previous page, the discussion was about low income earners, which everyone can agree are getting screwed by losing out on a weeks worth of extra hours because they live in a state with a terrible government. Lower income people does not equte to people (companies) who make licensed apparrel for MLB and "knick knacks." If your argument is about knick knack makers getting screwed out of the money they paid their finance division to project profit and loss based on bad information, then wah wah wah those poor companies.

A lot of that stuff you have to order a year out, and with a down payment.  

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35 minutes ago, thriftyrocker said:

At the top of the previous page, the discussion was about low income earners, which everyone can agree are getting screwed by losing out on a weeks worth of extra hours because they live in a state with a terrible government. Lower income people does not equte to people (companies) who make licensed apparrel for MLB and "knick knacks." If your argument is about knick knack makers getting screwed out of the money they paid their finance division to project profit and loss based on bad information, then wah wah wah those poor companies.

Well, the previous post you acted like these businesses planned to lose 50-75% of inventory as shirts for the Final 4 or CFP non-winners are donated to charity.  They aren't the same thing and didn't plan for that.  So that was debunked and now you've shifted to a statement of how low end wage workers are affected that we've all agreed to.  Somehow you've also jumped to the conclusion that knick knack makers are large enough to have finance divisions, and beyond that they have bad information and produce bad projections.  I mean this is a bit all over the map to follow.

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3 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

A lot of that stuff you have to order a year out, and with a down payment.  

:shrug:

 

Even if that were true (and I don't think it is) - this seems like a prime buying opportunity for MAGA supporters to wear the gear as a badge of honor.

 

 

NBA moved the 2021 all-star game from Indianapolis to Atlanta.  In November 2020 - game was postponed indefinitely in Indiana.  On February 4, 2021, NBA announced that Atlanta would host the 2021 all-star game.

Where was all this outrage then?  It feels a bit misplaced now...

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16 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

But the moral MLB who is concerned with human rights just signed a deal with a Chinese company owned by the government.

Yes. That’s a contradiction that I don’t approve of. If I had my way they would not do this. 
But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t approve of it when they do the right thing. 

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Just now, IvanKaramazov said:

Care to remind us what NFL team you root for?

The Steelers. And I’m proud of Rooney’s accomplishments on the issue of race in the NFL. I’d be a Steeler fan without that but I’m proud of it nonetheless. I’m less proud of some of the behavior of the players but it’s an imperfect world. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

The Steelers. And I’m proud of Rooney’s accomplishments on the issue of race in the NFL. I’d be a Steeler fan without that but I’m proud of it nonetheless. I’m less proud of some of the behavior of the players but it’s an imperfect world. 

But wait.  I thought you couldn't root for a league that tolerated misogyny, for example.  Now I'm confused.  It's almost as if you're proposing one set of standards for everybody else that you're unwilling to apply to yourself.  If only we had a word for such a thing.

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19 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

But the moral MLB who is concerned with human rights just signed a deal with a Chinese company owned by the government.

Just want to add to this: the main problem when you offer examples hypocrisy to your argument is that your not justifying the position of the people you’re trying to defend; you’re just bringing up an additional bad act. It’s easily defeated by acknowledging the additional bad act. 

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7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Why? I don’t want to watch a sports league that tolerates racism, or sexism, or homophobia. Why shouldn’t I want the teams I’m watching to do what’s right? 

You and I disagree on a lot, but I think (or hope) you meant this differently from the way your original post sounded.  It read to me as you viewed your sports leagues to be guides of morality.  That's different from wanting them to reflect what you deem as moral.  I've met a lot of good guys in sports, but have seen enough of how that influence and money are used to cover things up and hide things.  As the father of daughters, it's worse stuff than Matt Gaetz is being accused of today.  We both love sports, we can appreciate the gifts these guys have, but let's not make them as a group of both good and bad individuals into something they aren't. 

Take the NFLPA right now, what do you think they should be doing about Deshaun Watson?  It's hard to assign morality to these organizations who aren't built to be that.

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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

But wait.  I thought you couldn't root for a league that tolerated misogyny, for example.  Now I'm confused.  It's almost as if you're proposing one set of standards for everybody else that you're unwilling to apply to yourself.  If only we had a word for such a thing.

No. I never said that I couldn’t root for a league that tolerates misogyny. Of course I have and do. Why I wrote is that if given the choice I would prefer not to. That’s why I’m happy when MLB takes steps like this against Georgia. I’d still watch them if they didn’t but I’m glad when they do. 

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12 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

:shrug:

 

Even if that were true (and I don't think it is) - this seems like a prime buying opportunity for MAGA supporters to wear the gear as a badge of honor.

 

 

NBA moved the 2021 all-star game from Indianapolis to Atlanta.  In November 2020 - game was postponed indefinitely in Indiana.  On February 4, 2021, NBA announced that Atlanta would host the 2021 all-star game.

Where was all this outrage then?  It feels a bit misplaced now...

The Final 4 in 2020 was postponed indefinitely out of Atlanta as well.  All 2020 events were the same for these special events due to the pandemic.  The presumption is most will eventually be replaced.  Are you asking us to all be outraged at Covid?

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Just now, Shula-holic said:

You and I disagree on a lot, but I think (or hope) you meant this differently from the way your original post sounded.  It read to me as you viewed your sports leagues to be guides of morality.  That's different from wanting them to reflect what you deem as moral.  I've met a lot of good guys in sports, but have seen enough of how that influence and money are used to cover things up and hide things.  As the father of daughters, it's worse stuff than Matt Gaetz is being accused of today.  We both love sports, we can appreciate the gifts these guys have, but let's not make them as a group of both good and bad individuals into something they aren't. 

Take the NFLPA right now, what do you think they should be doing about Deshaun Watson?  It's hard to assign morality to these organizations who aren't built to be that.

I was responding to @FairWarning stating that he didn’t want sports leagues to be committed to improving society. I do. It’s not their main function, but I think it’s an important one. I’m happy when they take actions like this. 
I would be a baseball, basketball and football fan even if they took no stands on societal issues. But it pleases me when they do. 

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Just want to add to this: the main problem when you offer examples hypocrisy to your argument is that your not justifying the position of the people you’re trying to defend; you’re just bringing up an additional bad act. It’s easily defeated by acknowledging the additional bad act. 

Good to know, I’ll take it under advisement.

 

back to the woke thread.  

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Just now, Shula-holic said:

The Final 4 in 2020 was postponed indefinitely out of Atlanta as well.  All 2020 events were the same for these special events due to the pandemic.  The presumption is most will eventually be replaced.  Are you asking us to all be outraged at Covid?

Well that depends.  Are you really concerned about the "lower income workers"?  Or, are you just looking to score political points?

If you are concerned about the lost revenue for low income workers when an event is pulled  - then yes you should be outraged.

If you just want to score political points, then no - just keep on railing about MLB taking a political stance with which you disagree.

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22 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

:shrug:

 

Even if that were true (and I don't think it is) - this seems like a prime buying opportunity for MAGA supporters to wear the gear as a badge of honor.

 

 

NBA moved the 2021 all-star game from Indianapolis to Atlanta.  In November 2020 - game was postponed indefinitely in Indiana.  On February 4, 2021, NBA announced that Atlanta would host the 2021 all-star game.

Where was all this outrage then?  It feels a bit misplaced now...

Why wouldn’t you think it’s true?  I’m a wholesaler.  Stores will have to order next year’s Easter stuff in the next 4-6 week.

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Well that depends.  Are you really concerned about the "lower income workers"?  Or, are you just looking to score political points?

If you are concerned about the lost revenue for low income workers when an event is pulled  - then yes you should be outraged.

If you just want to score political points, then no - just keep on railing about MLB taking a political stance with which you disagree.

Well when it comes to Covid do the concerns matter?  Should we have played during the pandemic?  I’m not sure I understand what you would have done or how Covid cancellations are political. Short of trying to award the cities that lost 2020 events an event in the future I don’t know what else we could do.  But yes I do feel bad and am concerned over people who lost due to that. Hell I was one of them. But I don’t know that I’m outraged because Covid cancelled the 2020 Final 4 for instance. Who should I be outraged at?
 

Cancelling all events due to a pandemic and choosing to move an event that is going to occur from one city to another are totally different things. I can admit I disagree with MLBs decision so I’m admitting I have a bias in that way, more so financially. Finances drive me much more so than a political lean. But you should admit you realize the difference in these two scenarios.  They’re not remotely the same and it’s silly to go down that road. 

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25 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

Well, the previous post you acted like these businesses planned to lose 50-75% of inventory as shirts for the Final 4 or CFP non-winners are donated to charity.  They aren't the same thing and didn't plan for that.  So that was debunked and now you've shifted to a statement of how low end wage workers are affected that we've all agreed to.  Somehow you've also jumped to the conclusion that knick knack makers are large enough to have finance divisions, and beyond that they have bad information and produce bad projections.  I mean this is a bit all over the map to follow.

The original statement by Insein was ridiculous because it combined "lower income people" with "money to prepare." The absurdity was increased when you suggested it was about those printing apparel and knick knacks. If you care about lower income people, great. If you care about medium sized businesses that make apparel or anyone who is investing "money to prepare," we can disagree about how badly they were hurt here or how much I should care.

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Just now, thriftyrocker said:

The original statement by Insein was ridiculous because it combined "lower income people" with "money to prepare." The absurdity was increased when you suggested it was about those printing apparel and knick knacks. If you care about lower income people, great. If you care about medium sized businesses that make apparel or anyone who is investing "money to prepare," we can disagree about how badly they were hurt here or how much I should care.

I personally care about both the low income folks and small business owners.  I'm even all for larger size businesses making money so that they can keep people hired and buy inventory from other small business folks.  It's all correlated.  If you don't care, that's fine you do you. You just were making some statements about businesses that were completely made up, so to call his statements ridiculous was a bit overboard when there are obvious examples of people like street vendors who would have ordered items to sell already.  

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18 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Why wouldn’t you think it’s true?  I’m a wholesaler.  Stores will have to order next year’s Easter stuff in the next 4-6 week.

Well, let me back up.

 

Who do you think ordered stuff last summer for this year's All-Star game?

Certainly the Braves, ditto MLB.  You can go on-line now and order a Atlanta All-star Game shirt, and other stuff.

Wal-Mart - I am sure they will be selling licensed stuff.  I am sure they ordered a bunch of Atlanta All-Star game stuff.  Same with other national retail outlets with a location in the Atlanta area.

I am not worried about the finances of any of these buyers.

To the extent that MLB licensed its logos to others to sell merchandise - I suspect those businesses have a contractual remedy for MLB pulling the game.  For a business selling unlicensed merchandise - :shrug:

 

The biggest financial losers here are Georgia, Cobb County, and Fulton County - losing tex revenue that the game would have brought.  This is something that the legislature really should have considered as they rushed through the bill.  I bet, if they had to do it all over - maybe it waits until the next session - when there is less on the line, financially and politically.

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14 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Well, let me back up.

 

Who do you think ordered stuff last summer for this year's All-Star game?

Certainly the Braves, ditto MLB.  You can go on-line now and order a Atlanta All-star Game shirt, and other stuff.

Wal-Mart - I am sure they will be selling licensed stuff.  I am sure they ordered a bunch of Atlanta All-Star game stuff.  Same with other national retail outlets with a location in the Atlanta area.

I am not worried about the finances of any of these buyers.

To the extent that MLB licensed its logos to others to sell merchandise - I suspect those businesses have a contractual remedy for MLB pulling the game.  For a business selling unlicensed merchandise - :shrug:

 

The biggest financial losers here are Georgia, Cobb County, and Fulton County - losing tex revenue that the game would have brought.  This is something that the legislature really should have considered as they rushed through the bill.  I bet, if they had to do it all over - maybe it waits until the next session - when there is less on the line, financially and politically.

There are a lot of ma and pa places that order that stuff also.   I also agree with you about the bill.  No idea why they thought it had to be done now.  Its a major black eye to the state.  

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The face of my franchise rapes a woman: Well, what can you do, pobody's nerfect, I'm just trying my best to live a good life in a bad world, etc.

A state that I don't live in asks people to mail in their mail-in ballots through the actual mail: THIS INJUSTICE MUST NOT STAND!!!1!!

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I am. 

Why? Have these leagues shown a single shred of non self serving principles over the years? They do charity because it helps their image. They donate money for the same reasons. Are we as a society looking towards small groups of billionaires trying to win bragging rights over their colleagues as the moral authority for America? With everything they've said and done during that time?

 

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15 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

The face of my franchise rapes a woman: Well, what can you do, pobody's nerfect, I'm just trying my best to live a good life in a bad world, etc.

A state that I don't live in asks people to mail in their mail-in ballots through the actual mail: THIS INJUSTICE MUST NOT STAND!!!1!!

By this metric should we all go after the NFLPA and Texans for not abandoning Deshaun Watson right now?  Given that everything in sports now has some social meaning I'm not sure how we are to pick and choose.  

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38 minutes ago, thriftyrocker said:

The original statement by Insein was ridiculous because it combined "lower income people" with "money to prepare." The absurdity was increased when you suggested it was about those printing apparel and knick knacks. If you care about lower income people, great. If you care about medium sized businesses that make apparel or anyone who is investing "money to prepare," we can disagree about how badly they were hurt here or how much I should care.

I think the misunderstanding here is that you assume the small business owner getting screwed over is somehow neutral of the low income earners. Or that small businesses can afford to take a sudden loss when they were expecting a gain. 

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9 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

The face of my franchise rapes a woman: Well, what can you do, pobody's nerfect, I'm just trying my best to live a good life in a bad world, etc.

A state that I don't live in asks people to mail in their mail-in ballots through the actual mail: THIS INJUSTICE MUST NOT STAND!!!1!!

The hypocrisy is amazing.  What's even more amazing is that he doesn't even realize it.  In his head, it all works out to unicorns and rainbows.  :shrug:

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2 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

The face of my franchise rapes a woman: Well, what can you do, pobody's nerfect, I'm just trying my best to live a good life in a bad world, etc.

A state that I don't live in asks people to mail in their mail-in ballots through the actual mail: THIS INJUSTICE MUST NOT STAND!!!1!!

I think this is a big part of what frustrates people. We see it each day now with the border stuff. People that weren't concerned a year ago are now suddenly concerned. People that were concerned a year ago now dismiss video as they can't clearly understand how it fits their narrative. It's super discouraging. 

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I didn’t think the election was stolen and I dont think this new law is Jim Crow

I thought Trump wasn’t handling the migrant problem well and neither is Biden

When Biden raises taxes there’s a good chance I won’t agree with it but I won’t be calling it the fall of capitalism and western civilization either.

The hyperbole is off the charts.  The left is out of their minds, the right will likely close some of that gap the next few years.

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

I think this is a big part of what frustrates people. We see it each day now with the border stuff. People that weren't concerned a year ago are now suddenly concerned. People that were concerned a year ago now dismiss video as they can't clearly understand how it fits their narrative. It's super discouraging. 

My views on the border have been extremely consistent. 
On this issue, as @IvanKaramazovcorrectly points out, I’m far more of a hypocrite. I freely admit it. There’s no consistency. 
But I don’t understand why that fact would discourage you or anyone else. Everyone has to decide for themselves what they can live with, and why they want in society. My consistency, or lack of it, is irrelevant to whether I am right or wrong on any given issue. 

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Couple of random thoughts:

- Why did the MLB draw the line for making a statement over these new laws? As @FairWarningmentioned earlier, it appears they have no problem partnering with China who are doing much worse to people.

- While the laws might not be as restrictive as Democrats are making them out to be, I have a hard time being sympathetic to Republicans here as I don’t believe they’re doing this in good faith to make elections more fair and if Trump won GA, I doubt they would have done anything at all.

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2 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Couple of random thoughts:

- Why did the MLB draw the line for making a statement over these new laws? As @FairWarningmentioned earlier, it appears they have no problem partnering with China who are doing much worse to people.

- While the laws might not be as restrictive as Democrats are making them out to be, I have a hard time being sympathetic to Republicans here as I don’t believe they’re doing this in good faith to make elections more fair and if Trump won GA, I doubt they would have done anything at all.

According to the Braves, Manfred caved in to the sponsors.

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Both points make sense to me:

 

"CEOs that run airlines or pharmaceutical companies or credit card companies or sports leagues aren't really experts when it comes to voting laws. That's been made perfectly clear over the past week," says @SenTomCotton. "Their attacks on Georgia's voting laws are ill-informed."

 

Stephanie Ruhle @SRuhle

CEOs might not be Georgia voting law experts, but they are RISK MANAGEMENT EXPERTS- Many have deduced that staying silent will have a worse impact on their bottom line.

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CEO's aren't the only ones spouting ill-informed on the laws though.  Politicians and pundits as well.  When we hear one side focus mostly on water and the other only on ID as if that is all the law is about.  Sure, not all of that is ill-informed, its messaging strategy.

But how many of these laws do most of the politicians understand?  Ive seen many questioned on laws over the years...and it isn't very pretty many times over because they don't know all what is in something at all.

And hey...politicians...if you want others to not be as ill-informed, lets lie less about things when trying to sell the ideas.  Lets quit writing the laws in such a language that most will never be able to understand what in the world it says.

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19 hours ago, timschochet said:

Why? I don’t want to watch a sports league that tolerates racism, or sexism, or homophobia. Why shouldn’t I want the teams I’m watching to do what’s right? 

Should the Braves leave town?

Should Matt Ryan demand a trade?

Where does it end?

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Just now, Bucsfan5493 said:

I was more laughing at the fact that he felt the need to post an official statement about it.

Didn't the MLB post an official statement too about the all star game?  I guess I'm not understanding your point.  

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3 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Didn't the MLB post an official statement too about the all star game?  I guess I'm not understanding your point.  

Moving the MLB all star game is a pretty big deal and effects a ton of people. Greg Abbott throwing out the first pitch at the Rangers home opener is not a big deal and I doubt anyone really cares other than for the fact that it shows he's fighting back against the MLB. Vast majority of people who are attending the game probably had no idea who was supposed to throw out the first pitch.

Edited by Bucsfan5493
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8 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Moving the MLB all star game is a pretty big deal and effects a ton of people. Greg Abbott throwing out the first pitch at the Rangers home opener is not a big deal and I doubt anyone really cares other than for the fact that it shows he's fighting back against the MLB. Vast majority of people who are attending the game probably had no idea who was supposed to throw out the first pitch.

Yes I was similarly puzzled after noticing there were no reverberations across social media when I didn’t watch yesterday’s Angels game either.  :mylifedoesntmatter:

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On 4/2/2021 at 4:00 PM, -fish- said:

Setting aside the ridiculous criminalization of giving water to someone that's waiting in line to vote, "Clarifying dates" isn't as simple as that.  As an example:

 

Why would you let people vote where they are after 5 pm, but not before, if you aren't trying to prevent working people from voting?

If you look at the bill as a whole, it's a lot less about election security and a lot more about making it more difficult for working people to vote.

Democrats (including black voters) were far more likely to vote by mail.   This bill makes voting by mail more difficult, despite no actual evidence of any problem with voting by mail.

Voter ID requirements are similar.  It's an additional hurdle to voting to address a problem that doesn't exist.   There was no evidence to support claims of voter fraud.   

Requiring drop boxes to be located inside early-voting locations essentially defeats the purpose of having drop boxes.

Shortening the time for runoff elections is a direct result of the GOP losing the runoffs.   In every case, the GOP's action is aimed at less people voting, because they believe that it favors GOP candidates if less people vote.   That only makes sense when large urban areas are heavily Democrat.   

 

 

Just curious how Voter ID requirements add a voting hurdle.  In GA in order to register to vote, you need to provide either a State issued DL#, a State issued ID# or the last 4 digits of your social security number.  If you don't have any of those, the State will provide you with a voter ID number.  So everything you need to register, you have to vote absentee.  But it actually ensures that your vote will count from here on out and not be invalidated because your signature doesn't match.  

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