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Vaccine Passports (1 Viewer)

First I need to know something which I can’t find the answer to: 

Now that I have been vaccinated, are non-vaccinated people a threat to me and mine? 
 

Answer that, definitively, and I can offer an opinion on this question. Otherwise I can’t. 

 
First I need to know something which I can’t find the answer to: 

Now that I have been vaccinated, are non-vaccinated people a threat to me and mine? 
 

Answer that, definitively, and I can offer an opinion on this question. Otherwise I can’t. 
Actually scratch that. Unvaccinated people are a threat to me because if they get other people sick they occupy hospital beds and present a risk to public health. 
So yeah, let’s go with the passports. If certain people weren’t reluctant to get the vaccine this wouldn’t be necessary. 

 
First I need to know something which I can’t find the answer to: 

Now that I have been vaccinated, are non-vaccinated people a threat to me and mine? 
 

Answer that, definitively, and I can offer an opinion on this question. Otherwise I can’t. 
Would you say your issue would be with the usefulness as opposed to privacy / overreach?

 
"Vaccine passports are typically an app with a code that verifies whether someone has been vaccinated or recently tested negative for COVID-19"

Getting an ID to vote and remembering a bottle of water are super hard and racist. 

Needing an app to able to get on public transportation to go buy a bottle of water. Piece of cake, not racist. 

 
"Vaccine passports are typically an app with a code that verifies whether someone has been vaccinated or recently tested negative for COVID-19"

Getting an ID to vote and remembering a bottle of water are super hard and racist. 

Needing an app to able to get on public transportation to go buy a bottle of water. Piece of cake, not racist. 
Would you have an issue with a business, say a bar and grill, not allowing you to eat inside their place without this system?

 
Don't you already have to get vaccines to travel to certain parts of the world? I don't see this as much different. 
I think for travel for sure. 

Moving within other countries I believe Israel has this passport in place to attend things like sporting events for their citizens.

 
"Vaccine passports are typically an app with a code that verifies whether someone has been vaccinated or recently tested negative for COVID-19"

Getting an ID to vote and remembering a bottle of water are super hard and racist. 

Needing an app to able to get on public transportation to go buy a bottle of water. Piece of cake, not racist. 
Voting is a right.  Requiring an ID that one has to pay for may constitute a poll tax.  Therefore there are issues with it.  Combine that with states that often push voter ID laws...cut hours of places you can get IDs...close down stations in certain areas.  So yes...to try and make it harder for some to get that ID...that can be and has been in some cases, racist.

Public transportation is not a right.  

Even with that said...I oppose these passports.  

 
The US didn't even make a serious effort at contact tracing.  We aren't going to have vaccine passports.  The pandemic will literally be over before they could overcome any of the logistical hurdles.

Interesting hypothetical, but not a real-world thing that is going to happen.

 
First I need to know something which I can’t find the answer to: 

Now that I have been vaccinated, are non-vaccinated people a threat to me and mine? 
 

Answer that, definitively, and I can offer an opinion on this question. Otherwise I can’t. 
How I understand it is you can still get the virus, but the vaccination kills it basically.  

 
The US didn't even make a serious effort at contact tracing.  We aren't going to have vaccine passports.  The pandemic will literally be over before they could overcome any of the logistical hurdles.

Interesting hypothetical, but not a real-world thing that is going to happen.
I actually thought of you and @rockactionwhen posting this article.

This is my issue with this - it won’t be practical and implementing one would be logistical nightmare. 

I do see issues with privacy that I understand but don’t think should apply here or at the least are worthy of a larger discussion.

This becoming a “political football” is not something I’d be interested in and any politician that tries to use this in that manner will lose my respect. 

Personally wouldn’t have an issue with using one and would, unless presented some good arguments that I haven’t seen, would support businesses using these and the idea of something like this.

If God forbid we start having issues with variants and the lack of vaccinated people is contributing to that problem this becomes a much more important issue.

 
I actually thought of you and @rockactionwhen posting this article.

This is my issue with this - it won’t be practical and implementing one would be logistical nightmare. 

I do see issues with privacy that I understand but don’t think should apply here or at the least are worthy of a larger discussion.

This becoming a “political football” is not something I’d be interested in and any politician that tries to use this in that manner will lose my respect. 

Personally wouldn’t have an issue with using one and would, unless presented some good arguments that I haven’t seen, would support businesses using these and the idea of something like this.

If God forbid we start having issues with variants and the lack of vaccinated people is contributing to that problem this becomes a much more important issue.
Thanks.  I've seen a lot of talk on this topic recently, and I really do think that the discussion is probably 100% academic.  Covid-19 restrictions are already falling by the wayside, and I expect that they'll go away very quickly later in the spring.  Two months from now, it's going to weird seeing someone wearing a mask at a grocery store -- my guess is Memorial Day, give or take.  There just ain't no way that we're implementing something like a vaccine passport when the pandemic is ending and people are sick of covid restrictions.  

I'm not opposed to them in principle.  They don't make much sense now, but I can imagine an alternate universe where covid evolved differently and vaccine distribution was a lot slower where they might be worth it.  At this time, with the actual virus that we're facing, and with vaccines as awesome as they are, I don't see a good case for vaccine passports.  And if we couldn't override privacy concerns and logistical problems with contact tracing when there was an iron-clad case for contact tracing, it definitely isn't going to happen with passports.

I agree with you also that I would prefer for politicians to please stop politicizing public health.  DeSantis is not helping things by trying to outlaw something that isn't going to happen anyway.  

 
I think you'll see people wearing masks for the forseeable future, maybe 1 in 10.  I haven't been to Vegas in a few years, but it wasn't uncommon to see Asian vacationers wearing them.

 
Actually scratch that. Unvaccinated people are a threat to me because if they get other people sick they occupy hospital beds and present a risk to public health. 
So yeah, let’s go with the passports. If certain people weren’t reluctant to get the vaccine this wouldn’t be necessary. 
You take your vaccine.  You wear your mask.  You're good to go.  

If you're worried about hospital beds, then there are a ton of more health issues you can attack.  Smoking.  Drinking.  Drugs.  Fast Food.  But the China Virus

 
Thanks.  I've seen a lot of talk on this topic recently, and I really do think that the discussion is probably 100% academic.  Covid-19 restrictions are already falling by the wayside, and I expect that they'll go away very quickly later in the spring.  Two months from now, it's going to weird seeing someone wearing a mask at a grocery store -- my guess is Memorial Day, give or take.  There just ain't no way that we're implementing something like a vaccine passport when the pandemic is ending and people are sick of covid restrictions.  

I'm not opposed to them in principle.  They don't make much sense now, but I can imagine an alternate universe where covid evolved differently and vaccine distribution was a lot slower where they might be worth it.  At this time, with the actual virus that we're facing, and with vaccines as awesome as they are, I don't see a good case for vaccine passports.  And if we couldn't override privacy concerns and logistical problems with contact tracing when there was an iron-clad case for contact tracing, it definitely isn't going to happen with passports.

I agree with you also that I would prefer for politicians to please stop politicizing public health.  DeSantis is not helping things by trying to outlaw something that isn't going to happen anyway.  
Agree with much of this most importantly the vax is working and people are wanting them - last numbers I saw were like 70% of people saying they would get it. That I think will continue to go up.

I hope your mask predictions are accurate. I can’t wait to ditch this thing.

 
Where do people fall on these? I think this one may cross typical political lines based on reactions I have read and issues that they present.

Lots of articles about them this one covers the issue broadly
If thats all it is used for, i don't have a problem.  We need to fully open up the economy sooner rather than later.  This will give people the confidence to get out.  Now if the government or Big Tech uses it to intrude on us, thats a problem.  They already do it now.  

 
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Where do people fall on these? I think this one may cross typical political lines based on reactions I have read and issues that they present.

Lots of articles about them this one covers the issue broadly
Travelling overseas, I think you have to obey whatever that country requires. Travelling within the US? Not sure how they expect to enforce that or where the "science" would be able to prove it's any more of a threat than what we've been doing the last year. 

If individual businesses want to require that kind of proof, they do so at their own peril. Either people will stop shopping there or they will just fake the papers to get what they need. Either way your not making anyone safer and you're hurting your own business in the process.

 
My thought is that they'll be impractical and likely unconstitutional if they're to prevent traveling between states or using state roads. Other than that, likely privilege-based and okay. I don't see them coming, but if they do, rollout and enforcement will be ultra problematic.

 
Travelling overseas, I think you have to obey whatever that country requires. Travelling within the US? Not sure how they expect to enforce that or where the "science" would be able to prove it's any more of a threat than what we've been doing the last year. 

If individual businesses want to require that kind of proof, they do so at their own peril. Either people will stop shopping there or they will just fake the papers to get what they need. Either way your not making anyone safer and you're hurting your own business in the process.
Agreed the logistics would be the hard part.  Hopefully this won’t be an issue if enough people actually get their shots and variants don’t become an issue. 

People faking this to go to a bar is a lot of work. Isn’t it just easier and better thing to do to get a free shot? 

 
Agreed the logistics would be the hard part.  Hopefully this won’t be an issue if enough people actually get their shots and variants don’t become an issue. 

People faking this to go to a bar is a lot of work. Isn’t it just easier and better thing to do to get a free shot? 
No. Not when the shot has no recorded side effects. I'm not getting a shot for something I have a 99.7% chance of surviving when I have no idea what it may do 1,2, 5 10 years down the road. If Covid is still a thing 10-15 years from now and the vaccine has done hundreds of clinical trials to show it's free of major side effects, I might consider it. Many Americans (who are not anti-vaxxers) agree that taking something they literally made in 6 months is not something they're willing to risk.

 
Voting is a right.  Requiring an ID that one has to pay for may constitute a poll tax.  Therefore there are issues with it.  Combine that with states that often push voter ID laws...cut hours of places you can get IDs...close down stations in certain areas.  So yes...to try and make it harder for some to get that ID...that can be and has been in some cases, racist.

Public transportation is not a right.  

Even with that said...I oppose these passports.  
Getting water in line a right?

 
No. Not when the shot has no recorded side effects. I'm not getting a shot for something I have a 99.7% chance of surviving when I have no idea what it may do 1,2, 5 10 years down the road. If Covid is still a thing 10-15 years from now and the vaccine has done hundreds of clinical trials to show it's free of major side effects, I might consider it. Many Americans (who are not anti-vaxxers) agree that taking something they literally made in 6 months is not something they're willing to risk.
Therein lies the problem. If enough people don’t get this then Covid continues to be an issue.

You, or I, may have a tremendous success rate of surviving (these long term issues are another thing) but as a society a lot of others don’t. 

 
Nope...but its nice to have...especially when polling places are limited.

Making it illegal is stupid.
Maybe you said it and I missed it - how are they getting the water?  Is it a bottle given out by interested parties?  If so, that should always be illegal.  

 
Would you have an issue with a business, say a bar and grill, not allowing you to eat inside their place without this system?
I think a private business should have that right.  I agree with what Ivan said earlier that I find it unlikely we are going to be able to determine this kind of thing with accuracy.  While ideally I'm not for forcing people to be vaccinated, I'm also not for dictating policy to a business.  Their customer base will make their own decisions.  I'm sure some would appreciate it and patronize them more and they'd lose others.  Similarly, our state's mask mandate ends this Friday but I expect some of our restaurants to still require customers to wear masks.  While personally I'm good with that, I expect there to be some issues with it.  It puts the workers at those restaurants in bad situations for sure.

 
Would you have an issue with a business, say a bar and grill, not allowing you to eat inside their place without this system?
On a personal level, not really. I got my first shot and will get my second. I have a smart phone. I would find it annoying, because i try to avoid putting apps on my phone, but I wouldnt boycott a place over it. 

On a societal level I find it absurd. (But i also agree there is no chance in hell it ever happens)

 
If it's going to make travelers and diners feel safer, then it's a good idea, no?

It's all about getting the country back to business, and people out spending money again, and economy, isn't it?

If the vast majority of the country is planning on getting vaccinated, it seems that travelers will feel safer knowing everyone on board is vaccinated.

Maybe they can have separate Freedom Flights, where Ted Nugent flies people to Myrtle Beach, and people can wave flags on the plane, and cough on each other.

 
On a personal level, not really. I got my first shot and will get my second. I have a smart phone. I would find it annoying, because i try to avoid putting apps on my phone, but I wouldnt boycott a place over it. 

On a societal level I find it absurd. (But i also agree there is no chance in hell it ever happens)
What part do you think is absurd?

 
If a private entity wants to enforce them, great. If they don’t, dont. I’ll go to one place and not the other. 

 
How I understand it is you can still get the virus, but the vaccination kills it basically.  
Generally speaking the vaccine gives you the defense to stop the virus inside the body. What that means is still uncertain but I think the messaging has been overly conservative. Will the virus survive long enough to cause a positive result? Minor symptoms? Pass it on to others? The conservative answer right now is possibly, but every study that comes back gets us closer to answering no to those questions.

When more research is finished my guess is that fully vaccinated are highly unlikely to become symptomatic or pass the virus onto someone else but could test positive. That’s all assuming that a variant doesn’t emerge that evaded the vaccine which is risk in other countries that haven’t vaccinated like we have.

 
Therein lies the problem. If enough people don’t get this then Covid continues to be an issue.

You, or I, may have a tremendous success rate of surviving (these long term issues are another thing) but as a society a lot of others don’t. 
I disagree. Any person who wants a shot can get one. Most will because either they want it or don't want to be seen as someone who doesn't want it. Either way, they'll be more than enough to get through this. 

 
At what point do we stop?  Why not the regular flu?  MMR?  Polio?  West Nile?  How about if you voted a certain way?

And, I'm assuming that you're okay with Voter ID then too?
I don’t think those require this. I’m not even 100 percent sold on the idea.

Personally haven’t read into voter ID laws too much (I have an ID and vote by mail) but don’t really see how that is relevant to this.

 
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I disagree. Any person who wants a shot can get one. Most will because either they want it or don't want to be seen as someone who doesn't want it. Either way, they'll be more than enough to get through this. 
I hope so. The numbers are trending that way (people who will get it) and fingers crossed it’s looking very effective initially. 

 
What part do you think is absurd?
I think it is a pretty large break from the way we do things in this country and would obviously be unfair for poor people or old people. 

If we are talking about vaccine cards, as in just the little pieces of paper you get when you get a vaccine, then I think they will be so easily duplicated it would be so pointless. Remember how many yoyos printed out the dumb antimask fake medical exemption cards?  

I just see this accomplishing nothing and causing all sorts of trouble. 

 
I am hopeful that I am the first person on the board to compare the vaccine passport to 666👹

Queue the Maiden 

 
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Maybe you said it and I missed it - how are they getting the water?  Is it a bottle given out by interested parties?  If so, that should always be illegal.  
As long as there is no electioneering...and its a generic bottle.  Why?  Why would it matter who gave them water?  People handing out water should not be illegal.

 
I am hopeful that I am the first person on the board to compare the vaccine passport to 666👹
🤘🏻
 

it does crack me up to hear people about Bill Gates using vaccines to track them.  My uncle won’t get a grocery card because “they don’t need to know when I’m there shopping.”  You carry a mobile tracking device with you 24/7.  It’s so goofy. 

 

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