The General
Footballguy
Fauci in an interview today was asked about this topic and said it is extremely unlikely a Vaccine Passport of will be driven by the Feds.
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Vaccine Passports (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The General
- Start date
sho nuff
Footballguy
Which, IMO is right. If a business wants to require it...thats up to them to weigh the risk of backlash. But it absolutely should not be a government ordered requirement.
No, and I could be misundedtanding it. I'll check later when I have more time.
The South Beach Food and Wine Festival was attended by over 60,000 people over 5 days, pre-COVID. Its usually in February, but was delayed to May and will have half the events and attendance this year.
The General
Footballguy
I could go either way on this.
If the Feds had planned this from the get go and it was put in place I’d have no issue.
Luckily it seems as if it won’t be necessary.
the moops
Footballguy
16% of people who are eligible do not have drivers license. It is a sizeable chunk of our population
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
How did you determine 3 or 4 years is an appropriate observation period for long term vaccine adverse events?
Other than the unknown, can anyone tell me what specific consequence of vaccination concerns you?
FTR, the vast majority of severe vaccine AEs are apparent immediately, and certainly within the 6 month period of observation included in the original safety trials. And we now have ~4 months of additional surveillance among millions of vaccine recipients.
What are you guys waiting for?!?
FairWarning
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
Just watch any of these class-action suit commercials. Valid concerns could be anything that triggers heart or thyroid problems, cancer, internal bleeding...
the moops
Footballguy
This is 10 years old, but it says that 11% of all eligible voters lack a government issued ID
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.learningforjustice.org/sites/default/files/general/Percentage%20of%20People%20Who%20Lack%20ID_0.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjf3pCtk-jvAhVUHc0KHWrcAI4QFjAEegQIFxAC&usg=AOvVaw3uhNGmshc8_X96pFrfzmMF&cshid=1617661700164
FairWarning
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
If we actually want to incentivize people to get IDs, it seems like we should stop charging people for them and start paying people to get them instead.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Why should we pay them? They cost $10 in Michigan, probably all processing fees. I'm sick of "incentivizing", either they want to vote by the rules or not. Its not that damn hard.
the moops
Footballguy
People are voting by the rules. If you don't need an ID to vote, you don't need one. If you do need one, they aren't allowed to vote.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
@FairWarning— What exactly was the problem that you were referring to here? I thought you meant it was a problem that lots of people don’t have IDs.
FairWarning
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
It is a problem. It is a huge problem.
Its why drivers ed should be back in schools and make it free or means tested.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
It CAN'T be driven by the feds. Our privacy laws won't allow it. The ONLY way to get them to work is for individuals to buy into it, and not enough people will. I mean, we have people in this very forum who say it's "overreach" for a company to make rules (not in violation of the Constitution) they think are best for themselves and their customers. We also have people equating voter ID and vaccine passports. It's loony tunes.
quick-hands
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Trying to understand what ESG has to do with anything I said that isn't Qanon level conspiracy theory bat#### crazy in nature.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
If the problem is “too many people lack IDs” then I think paying people to get IDs would help alleviate the problem because people like getting paid for stuff.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
Yet you support privately enforced vaccine passports. That's bat#### crazy. What's Qannon?
Here it is: https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/orders/2021/EO_21-81.pdfOk....I haven't been able to find it, so if you can that'd be awesome
This EO may be compatible with the South Beach Food & Wine Festival requirement of an either/or: proof of vaccine or COVID negative test.
A private university in Ft. Lauderdale, Nova Southeastern, issued statement last week requiring students and staff to have proof of vaccination, but now is saying they will comply laws.
The EO:
>>WHEREAS, many Floridians have not yet had the opportunity to obtain a COVID-19 vaccination, some have infection-acquired immunity, and others may be unable to obtain a COVID-19 vaccination due to health, religious, or other reasons; and
WHEREAS, Florida seeks to ensure that every Floridian who desires a COVID-19 vaccine can obtain one, but such vaccines will not be mandated; and
WHEREAS, no COVID-19 vaccine is required by law; and
WHEREAS, individual COVID-19 vaccination records are private health information which should not be shared by mandate; and
WHEREAS, so-called COVID-19 vaccine passports reduce individual freedom and will harm patient privacy; and
WHEREAS, requiring so-called COVID-19 vaccine passports for taking part in everyday life-such as attending a sporting event, patronizing a restaurant, or going to a movie theaterwould create two classes of citizens based on vaccination; and
WHEREAS, it is necessary to protect the fundamental rights and privacies of Floridians and the free flow ofcommerce within the state.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, RON DESANTIS, as Governor of Florida, by virtue of the authority vested in me by Article IV, Section 1 (a) of the Florida Constitution and by the Florida Emergency Management Act, as amended, and all other applicable laws, promulgate the folJowing Executive Order:
Section 1. No Florida government entity, or its subdivisions, agents, or assigns, shall be permitted to issue vaccine passports, vaccine passes, or other standardized documentation for the purpose of certifying an individual's COVID-19 vaccination status to a third party, or otherwise publish or share any individual's COVID-19 vaccination record or similar health information.
Section 2. Businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business.
Section 3. All executive agencies under my direction shall work to ensure businesses comply with this order. Any provision of Florida Statutes is hereby suspended solely to the extent it restricts a Florida agency from requiring compliance with this order as a condition for a license, permit, or other state authorization necessary for conducting business in Florida.
Section 4. All businesses must comply with this order to be eligible for grants or contracts funded through state revenue.
Section 5. The requirements m this order do not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting COVID-19 screening protocols in accordance with state and federal law to protect public health, and nothing herein shall be construed to interfere with individuals' rights to access their own personal health information under federal law.
Section 6. This order is effective immediately and shaII remain in effect for the duration of Executive Order 20-52, as extended.<<
waiver wire
Footballguy
'100% vaccinated': Norwegian announces vaccine requirement for all passengers, crew on cruises
Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd., parent company to Norwegian Cruise Line, Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceania Cruises, announced Monday that it would require all passengers and crew on its ships to be "100% vaccinated" two weeks before boarding.
"That one-two punch is ironclad," Frank Del Rio, the company's president and CEO, told USA TODAY on Monday, pointing to the new vaccination requirement and health and safety protocols the company has said will be implemented on board. "No one can argue that being on a cruise ship under those conditions is not the safest place on Earth."
The requirement comes on the heels of additional guidance for cruise ships released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Friday as part of its Framework for Conditional Sailing Order, initially published in October, which is meant to help guide cruise lines as they return to sailing.
Norwegian shared a letter written by Del Rio, the company's president and CEO, addressed to CDC Director Rochelle Walensky on Monday outlining its plans to resume sailing with intent to have vessels depart with vaccinated passengers and crew starting in July.
The intention, Del Rio said, is for the vaccination policy to apply to all ships, no matter the port of departure. No age group will be exempt from the vaccination requirement.
"Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings is simply taking a cue from the CDC and putting together a comprehensive, robust, scientific-based plan that allows us to operate just like airlines are operating, casinos, resorts, theme parks, ballparks are now operating," Del Rio said, referencing Friday's announcement from the CDC that fully vaccinated people can travel at low risk.
other cruise lines have done this as well
Crystal Cruises, American Queen (river cruises) & others also have this requirement.
Royal Caribbean and Celebrity are requiring vaccines for the Bahama and St. Martin cruises to start in June. This is just the start. Many cruise lines are all debating on the vaccine requirement and how long will it be required?
Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd., parent company to Norwegian Cruise Line, Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceania Cruises, announced Monday that it would require all passengers and crew on its ships to be "100% vaccinated" two weeks before boarding.
"That one-two punch is ironclad," Frank Del Rio, the company's president and CEO, told USA TODAY on Monday, pointing to the new vaccination requirement and health and safety protocols the company has said will be implemented on board. "No one can argue that being on a cruise ship under those conditions is not the safest place on Earth."
The requirement comes on the heels of additional guidance for cruise ships released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Friday as part of its Framework for Conditional Sailing Order, initially published in October, which is meant to help guide cruise lines as they return to sailing.
Norwegian shared a letter written by Del Rio, the company's president and CEO, addressed to CDC Director Rochelle Walensky on Monday outlining its plans to resume sailing with intent to have vessels depart with vaccinated passengers and crew starting in July.
The intention, Del Rio said, is for the vaccination policy to apply to all ships, no matter the port of departure. No age group will be exempt from the vaccination requirement.
"Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings is simply taking a cue from the CDC and putting together a comprehensive, robust, scientific-based plan that allows us to operate just like airlines are operating, casinos, resorts, theme parks, ballparks are now operating," Del Rio said, referencing Friday's announcement from the CDC that fully vaccinated people can travel at low risk.
other cruise lines have done this as well
Crystal Cruises, American Queen (river cruises) & others also have this requirement.
Royal Caribbean and Celebrity are requiring vaccines for the Bahama and St. Martin cruises to start in June. This is just the start. Many cruise lines are all debating on the vaccine requirement and how long will it be required?
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
waiver wire
Footballguy
from the article that i linked
The intention, Del Rio said, is for the vaccination policy to apply to all ships, no matter the port of departure. No age group will be exempt from the vaccination requirement.
from what i recall from another article ( i will look for it later) that their lawyer believed that they were legally ok to have this policy , i cant remember why and again i will look for it
Yenrub
Footballguy
I can see how people have reached a point in their life where they don’t need an ID (or at least not needing to show an ID)
Sure you will need an ID to open a bank account but how often do you open new bank accounts? Plus once it’s opened you may never have to show your ID again to take money out thanks to teller machines. The last time I went into a bank was four years ago to open account for my daughter.
If you are old enough (and look it) you probably aren’t getting carded when you buy alcohol (think people over say 50 like me, I don’t get carded when I buy my bourbon). Maybe they don’t even drink alcohol.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
waiver wire
Footballguy
yes i know that , thats why i posted the article
from the article they are going to enforce it from every departure
we will find out soon on the validity of the florida's law about company's enforcing mandatory vaccinations
-fish-
Footballguy
Highly doubt this executive order is enforceable for private businesses that want proof of vaccination.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Well if that’s your standard, I doubt you’ll feel safe using any medication or medical device, ever. Some of those lawsuits involve substances used for decades, like talcum powder.FairWarning said:
FairWarning
Footballguy
Not necessarily mine, but for many who are against it, they are concerns. I already got my first shot. After I get the second one, I will not wear a mask in Indiana as long as their numbers stay down.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I don't know, years of experience suing drug companies for complications to their drugs. The typical drug takes 10 years of research before it's approved.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Sorry, nothing is risk (or litigation) free. But since drugs typically require 10 years of research before approval, why will you consider vaccination after only 3/4 years?
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
This is an interesting link detailing serious vaccine adverse effects. Even though there have been a boatload of lawsuits and reported AEs, there are only three which have held up to scientific scrutiny:
1. A batch of polio vaccines in 1955 contaminated with live virus, resulting in 250 cases of polio.
2. Increased risk of Guillain-Barre (a nerve disease) associated with the 1976 Swine flu vaccine.
3. Intussusception (telescoping of the intestines) associated with the 1989-90 rotavirus vaccine.
Not a perfect track record, but pretty damn good, and certainly a lot better than all the diseases prevented by vaccines over the years.
1. A batch of polio vaccines in 1955 contaminated with live virus, resulting in 250 cases of polio.
2. Increased risk of Guillain-Barre (a nerve disease) associated with the 1976 Swine flu vaccine.
3. Intussusception (telescoping of the intestines) associated with the 1989-90 rotavirus vaccine.
Not a perfect track record, but pretty damn good, and certainly a lot better than all the diseases prevented by vaccines over the years.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
So corporations and private businesses are nazis now? Because that is seemingly who is pushing this...not the feds.
The Commish
Footballguy
Is section 5 simply saying that they can require a negative covid test? That section seems to fly in the face of the rest. But it seems like he's essentially saying, "if you're gonna do this, you aren't going to get any state funds or be eligible for grants etc". So much for "letting the municipalities and businesses do what they think is right for for themselves and their customers".....remember when that was the line and justification for punting mask decisions down to the municipalities and businesses? What happened to "let the people decide"SoBeDad said:
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't even know what a "privately enforced vaccine passport" isquick-hands said:
I support businesses being allowed to add "vaccine" or "mask" to their "no shoes, no shirt, no service" signs if they feel it's best for their business and their customers.
They are....in order to comply with the Reich.
"The Biden administration and private companies are working to develop a standard way of handling credentials — often referred to as “vaccine passports” — that would allow Americans to prove they have been vaccinated against the novel coronavirus as businesses try to reopen.
The effort has gained momentum amid President Biden’s pledge that the nation will start to regain normalcy this summer and with a growing number of companies — from cruise lines to sports teams — saying they will require proof of vaccination before opening their doors again.
The administration’s initiative has been driven largely by arms of the Department of Health and Human Services, including an office devoted to health information technology, said five officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the effort. The White House this month took on a bigger role coordinating government agencies involved in the work, led by coronavirus coordinator Jeff Zients, with a goal of announcing updates in coming days, said one official."
I don't know why this isn't considered RACIST!!
"The passports are expected to be free and available through applications for smartphones, which could display a scannable code similar to an airline boarding pass. Americans without smartphone access should be able to print out the passports, developers have said."
It has already been proven that minorities do not have access to IDs.
How in the world can we expect them to have access to smart phones or computer printers?
THAT'S RACIST!!
Besides that, they are simple pieces of paper that are easily faked...just as DLs are useless in verifying voters' IDs. Fake IDs will be used for for voting....or so has mentioned in this thread.
so...why bother?
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Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Because you can run the different phase studies concurrently so it would shorten the traditional time period. I need to see clinical and nonclincial studies, DDI, ADME, LTS, smoker population, ethnic studies, etc. I want to know the effects they have both with short term AEs and long-term AEs. I want the studies peer reviewed and analyzed to note deficiencies in the study and study populations.
I don't want to go from a 98% to beat COVID to a 99.5% chance to beat COVID only to increase my chances of getting some long-term debilitating event that either destroys my QOL or increases my chance of dying in the next 10 years to improve 1-1.5% of beating something that really isn't a serious threat to someone in my age and risk group. If I was 75 with COPD I would have no hesitation taking the vaccine, I'm not.
sho nuff
Footballguy
So the feds aren't requiring it...they are aiding in helping people prove it for what we are seeing out of private business.
Thanks for proving my point.
...yet.
At this point...why require it when you can put pressure on local governments and businesses to require it?
Comply....or the shutdown remains in place.
I would say that you just couldn't be so blind....but I would be so wrong.
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