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2 hours ago, Ron Swanson said:

I remember hearing about this Colt's place coming to town.  I hadn't heard of that particualr one but I tend to rate the pig stand places more like a burger joint.  So, OK for fast food but not really BBQ.

Its a restaurant. I think the family only has three including the one going in NSB. It was only one prior to last year

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My favorite thing about BBQ besides the fact it's delicious: BBQ is alchemy. It's the ultimate under dog story.  You take the cheapest cuts of meat from the animal and through hard work and

The other Kansas City spot that gets all the love is Joe's Kansas City. Used to be called Oklahoma Joe's which was one of the dumber marketing moves for a place in Kansas City. Finally fixed it.

Sure. A zillion people would. Lots of people would pay to work with her. That's the problem. You can get a ton of the same experience just doing it yourself over and over. Or doing one of the wee

1 hour ago, Capella said:

To me, any meat that comes served with sauce on it isn’t well prepared. Give the customer the option but great bbq shouldn’t require sauce. 

:goodposting:

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3 hours ago, Ron Swanson said:

I have not, but heading to TX in June so that and Truth in Houston are on the list. There a guy in Houston named Willow that used to have a trailer in front of Shady Acres Saloon that was making great BBQ as well.  He's pretty transient but well worth it if I can find him.

Yes. Willow's is super interesting. Talented but seems more artist than business guy. He was a topic in talking with Russell Roegel. Definitely talented. BBQ is I guess like lots of other businesses where it takes a blend. 

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3 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Thx for the Chicago rec Joe.  Au Cheval does have great burgers, which makes me want to try out Green St Smoked Meats now.   Can’t wait to check it out!!

Tangent:  Doughnut Vault is good, but definitely not the best donuts in Chicago.  I feel about donuts similarly to how you feel about BBQ.  It’s an obsession.   It’s a lifestyle for me.  My kids say “the only reason dad likes to run is so he can eat donuts without gaining weight.”  :)

Thank you @Alex P Keaton. What are your donut recommendations in Chicago? And around the country? I'm a fan but not at your level I'm sure. I like Stans and Do-Rite in Chicago.

Big fan of Blue Star in Oregon. VooDoo is hugely over rated in my opinion. 

My favorite in the country is Spaldings in Lexington Kentucky. Ralphs in Cookeville, TN is great too. 

 

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1 hour ago, Hawks64 said:

:kicksrock: Man after watching her on A Chef's Table BBQ I put Snow on my list to get to in the next two years. Personally, I think Franklin's is way over hyped. I get it's a hot take but my BBQ taste is not traditional. I am not a fan of any single regional style. I still remember having all of Franklin's Q at a conference in Austin. Someone ordered a pickup of a ton of everything he has and I was really disappointed after eating. We had the brisket, ribs, pork, turkey and sausage. Whole lot of meh for me.

When I am smoking I tend to do things a bit twisted seasoning wise for my Q and I guess that's why I don't like typical BBQ from any single region.

Snow's is worth it for the pilgrammage aspect alone. And the food is very good. Just not on the level of the places using prime beef.

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3 hours ago, BigJohn said:

FWIW, I'm 42.  I'm hoping to be retired at 60.  At the very least, I plan on making a cross-country BBQ pilgrimage.  My hope is to experience the various spots and pits from a more behind-the-counter perspective.  I'm obsessed with pits.  If I had a dream scenario, I'd work for a week at as many places as I could.  The food is the reward, but the multitude of processes that these places use to make great BBQ just fascinates me.

With you @BigJohn 

For as close as most will get to your dream scenario, you may like this if you haven't seen it.

Working 24 Hours at the Best BBQ in the World

 

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6 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Yes. Willow's is super interesting. Talented but seems more artist than business guy. He was a topic in talking with Russell Roegel. Definitely talented. BBQ is I guess like lots of other businesses where it takes a blend. 

For sure.  I had a small group with me one evening at Shady Acres when his trailer was still there.  I ordered a couple pounds of everything and all sides and it kind of put him into a tailspin.  I suspect the quick popularity he found soon after that drove him away.

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1 hour ago, Hawks64 said:

:kicksrock: Man after watching her on A Chef's Table BBQ I put Snow on my list to get to in the next two years. Personally, I think Franklin's is way over hyped. I get it's a hot take but my BBQ taste is not traditional. I am not a fan of any single regional style. I still remember having all of Franklin's Q at a conference in Austin. Someone ordered a pickup of a ton of everything he has and I was really disappointed after eating. We had the brisket, ribs, pork, turkey and sausage. Whole lot of meh for me.

When I am smoking I tend to do things a bit twisted seasoning wise for my Q and I guess that's why I don't like typical BBQ from any single region.

My take is unless you had something go crazy with your order, if you didn't like Franklin, you'll hate Snows. 

Franklin is easily 50% better in every aspect except for beans and bread which are the same bland thing at both. 

Edited by Joe Bryant
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BUT, food isn't 100% of a restaurant. Snow's story is off the charts ridiculously good. No way to deny that. 

If Corkscrew or Cattleack was served in Snows atmosphere, it'd be 2x the best place in the world. If Corkscrew or Cattleack served Snow's food, nobody would care. 

I'm not sure where the balance is. But it's in there somewhere. 

What's not in question is Tootsie is awesome. 

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5 minutes ago, Ron Swanson said:

For sure.  I had a small group with me one evening at Shady Acres when his trailer was still there.  I ordered a couple pounds of everything and all sides and it kind of put him into a tailspin.  I suspect the quick popularity he found soon after that drove him away.

It's brutal business. I've looked at the business side of it a lot and it's ridiculously bad. Even the best restaurants are tough from the business side. And BBQ to me is easily the worst of the bunch from a business perspective. People get into BBQ because they love it. I think a lot, like me, love the alchemy part I mentioned above. It's art plus business and that's tough for lots of people. Probably most. 

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8 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

With you @BigJohn 

For as close as most will get to your dream scenario, you may like this if you haven't seen it.

Working 24 Hours at the Best BBQ in the World

 

That video is where my idea was born.  In all honesty, I have actually considered starting a BBQ blog or podcast just to hopefully be put into a place where this type of arrangement could be possible.

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2 hours ago, Capella said:

To me, any meat that comes served with sauce on it isn’t well prepared. Give the customer the option but great bbq shouldn’t require sauce. 

Old guy that taught me BBQ used to say, "Sauce covers a lot of sins". 

Truth. 

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4 minutes ago, BigJohn said:

That video is where my idea was born.  In all honesty, I have actually considered starting a BBQ blog or podcast just to hopefully be put into a place where this type of arrangement could be possible.

Do you cook yourself now?

My recommendation would be guy an offset smoker and just get after it. Even the stuff you make that's not good will be better than 90% of BBQ anyone not from Texas has had. 

And you'll get better as you go.

I'd buy MasterClass just for the Aaron Franklin course and you'll be off and running. 

 

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Yeah.  I've been cooking myself for years.  I've watched Franklin's videos so many times just for the purity of them.  I've used his brisket method ever since I went to Austin in 2019.  I've cooked it for family at my 40th birthday and a company Christmas party for about 150 people.  Each time having multitudes of people telling me it was the best brisket they've ever had.  I've competed a bit around SW Ohio a bit.  I'm hoping to start competing heavier in the next year or so.

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26 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

 

My recommendation would be guy an offset smoker and just get after it. Even the stuff you make that's not good will be better than 90% of BBQ anyone not from Texas has had. 

TX seems to have the best BBQ but I don’t know if that is true.  KC has some pretty damn good food.  STL does ok as well.  I like NC style sauce most though.  

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59 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thank you @Alex P Keaton. What are your donut recommendations in Chicago? And around the country? I'm a fan but not at your level I'm sure. I like Stans and Do-Rite in Chicago.

Big fan of Blue Star in Oregon. VooDoo is hugely over rated in my opinion. 

My favorite in the country is Spaldings in Lexington Kentucky. Ralphs in Cookeville, TN is great too. 

 

I've been to every donut place in Chicago - I go with Firecakes, though doughnut vault is great shtick to experience once. 

At Green Street meats, got to get the ribs and the corn elotes side. I'm usually not high on rubs, but green streets' is magical. 

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33 minutes ago, BigJohn said:

Yeah.  I've been cooking myself for years.  I've watched Franklin's videos so many times just for the purity of them.  I've used his brisket method ever since I went to Austin in 2019.  I've cooked it for family at my 40th birthday and a company Christmas party for about 150 people.  Each time having multitudes of people telling me it was the best brisket they've ever had.  I've competed a bit around SW Ohio a bit.  I'm hoping to start competing heavier in the next year or so.

Awesome. I'd say your next step then might be a BBQ school. I did Myron Mixon's years ago and it was helpful. 

Personally, I thought I wanted to do contests but now have zero interest. It's a completely different game of guessing what the judges want and presenting something to their desires. It's totally different than making BBQ for others. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Ron Swanson said:

I've seen "good sausage" mentioned by several posters.  What makes sausage good for y'all?  Beef or pork?  Hot links?  Jalapeno? Cheddar? Snappy casing?

I love spicy sausage.  Good venison sausage is killer.  

Will try any kind. Well, almost.  

I am not interested in any sausage with cheese in it.  

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16 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Awesome. I'd say your next step then might be a BBQ school. I did Myron Mixon's years ago and it was helpful. 

Personally, I thought I wanted to do contests but now have zero interest. It's a completely different game of guessing what the judges want and presenting something to their desires. It's totally different than making BBQ for others. 

When I think of every BBQ/smoker related memory I have, and I watch those BBQ contest shows, or documentary style YouTube videos of BBQ competitions, it looks awful.  Just awful.  

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6 hours ago, Ron Swanson said:

I've seen "good sausage" mentioned by several posters.  What makes sausage good for y'all?  Beef or pork?  Hot links?  Jalapeno? Cheddar? Snappy casing?

I don't know what its made of - maybe a mix of pork and beef - but this is the sausage from City Market in Luling. The casing is definitely snappy. The meat inside is kind of loosely held together. And its the best sausage I've ever had.

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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Old guy that taught me BBQ used to say, "Sauce covers a lot of sins". 

Truth. 

That's a great quote and I agree.   Serve my meat dry and let me try it on its own.  Then I dip or apply sauce when I feel.  I like options.   We need a best BBQ sauce thread just for Joe.  

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17 minutes ago, whoknew said:

I don't know what its made of - maybe a mix of pork and beef - but this is the sausage from City Market in Luling. The casing is definitely snappy. The meat inside is kind of loosely held together. And its the best sausage I've ever had.

The only time I ever had their sausage it was well past it's prime.  But it's a coarse grind "hot guts" style sausage.  Usually beef, trimmings. Coarse grind, no fillers, hog casing, simple spices S&P and red pepper. Similar to City Market in Giddings. Love that style of sausage.

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4 hours ago, Ron Swanson said:

The only time I ever had their sausage it was well past it's prime.  But it's a coarse grind "hot guts" style sausage.  Usually beef, trimmings. Coarse grind, no fillers, hog casing, simple spices S&P and red pepper. Similar to City Market in Giddings. Love that style of sausage.

I was going to say the same thing. To me the coarseness of the grind matters. Good snap. Great ingredients. The cheese and jalapeño versions are way overdone. Don’t care for them at all. 

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11 hours ago, Major said:

That's a great quote and I agree.   Serve my meat dry and let me try it on its own.  Then I dip or apply sauce when I feel.  I like options.   We need a best BBQ sauce thread just for Joe.  

The ironic part of this @Major is my BBQ sauce is fantastic. ;)

That's my next business project. 

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11 hours ago, whoknew said:

I don't know what its made of - maybe a mix of pork and beef - but this is the sausage from City Market in Luling. The casing is definitely snappy. The meat inside is kind of loosely held together. And its the best sausage I've ever had.

City Market is worth it just for the guys wearing hard hats in the pit room. 

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11 hours ago, Ron Swanson said:

The only time I ever had their sausage it was well past it's prime.  But it's a coarse grind "hot guts" style sausage.  Usually beef, trimmings. Coarse grind, no fillers, hog casing, simple spices S&P and red pepper. Similar to City Market in Giddings. Love that style of sausage.

That's my favorite style too. Like BBQ, the sausage served in BBQ spots is an underdog story. It mostly exists because it's a way to use the scrap trimmings. Plus the Czech / German influence in Central Texas where folks made stuff that was familiar to home. It's why kolaches are so big in central Texas.

To do brisket right, you trim a LOT before you cook. You can throw that in the trash or make tallow candles or use it for sausage. Sausage is way better. 

I too am not a big fan of all the crazy sausage creations. 

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16 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

BUT, food isn't 100% of a restaurant. Snow's story is off the charts ridiculously good. No way to deny that. 

If Corkscrew or Cattleack was served in Snows atmosphere, it'd be 2x the best place in the world. If Corkscrew or Cattleack served Snow's food, nobody would care. 

I'm not sure where the balance is. But it's in there somewhere. 

What's not in question is Tootsie is awesome. 

Prior to Texas Monthly they were more known for ham steaks and turkey than brisket.  

Her setup cooking over a ground fire is more similar to a West Texas style and went out of favor a long time ago as it's a huge pain in the ###.  

The only other place that will still (sometimes) cook over ground fire that isn't surrounded by dust is Pecan Lodge, but there are surely others that still make an attempt.

I see the bigger problem in Texas is there is a lot of supply now.  And there's limited demand for 18/pound brisket sliced.  I haven't seen what Franklin is asking lately but 21-24 was the range I've heard lately.  That's nearly prime rib-eye at the store territory.    

 

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

The ironic part of this @Major is my BBQ sauce is fantastic. ;)

That's my next business project. 

I look forward to trying it.  And for all the hate Salt Lick gets from purists, I'll take their sauce and Driftwood ambience over just about any BBQ place in the world.  I can't think of a more beautiful scene to enjoy all the Q you can handle and whatever drinks you decide to bring. It really is an experience on a beautiful day.  

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35 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Prior to Texas Monthly they were more known for ham steaks and turkey than brisket.  

Her setup cooking over a ground fire is more similar to a West Texas style and went out of favor a long time ago as it's a huge pain in the ###.  

The only other place that will still (sometimes) cook over ground fire that isn't surrounded by dust is Pecan Lodge, but there are surely others that still make an attempt.

I see the bigger problem in Texas is there is a lot of supply now.  And there's limited demand for 18/pound brisket sliced.  I haven't seen what Franklin is asking lately but 21-24 was the range I've heard lately.  That's nearly prime rib-eye at the store territory.    

 

Much of what they do is the normal offset indirect cooking style like most everyone in Texas uses. https://youtu.be/IieZmqqfjE0

They do use some direct cooking burning coals and shoveling under the pork steaks and finishing the briskets in the box pits. Good picture here around the 2:20 mark. https://youtu.be/y0WUHRAGJ6s

Agreed for sure that's a more labor intensive way. But it's how all real North Carolina bbq is cooked. That's how they cook everything at Skylight Inn and Buxton Hall. 

This is another well done video from Frank Pinello of Brooklyn Pizza fame. https://youtu.be/rP86Bby9Y9M

Edited by Joe Bryant
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38 minutes ago, culdeus said:

 

I see the bigger problem in Texas is there is a lot of supply now.  And there's limited demand for 18/pound brisket sliced.  I haven't seen what Franklin is asking lately but 21-24 was the range I've heard lately.  That's nearly prime rib-eye at the store territory.    

 

I wonder about that too. At some point, there is a limit for people. Not sure where that is.

I think you'll see it evolving to where Brisket is the "other" item on the menu you only get for something special as it's so expensive. 

And again, the ironic thing is even for $22 a pound brisket, the pizza guy across the street is wildly more profitable. 

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Another really great BBQ spot that just missed out on my list is Southern Soul Barbecue in St. Simon's Island, GA.

They're good enough that they get over my mostly ironclad rule that I'll dismiss any restaurant that tries to tell me how soulful or divey or authentic they are in their name.

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40 minutes ago, Major said:

I look forward to trying it.  And for all the hate Salt Lick gets from purists, I'll take their sauce and Driftwood ambience over just about any BBQ place in the world.  I can't think of a more beautiful scene to enjoy all the Q you can handle and whatever drinks you decide to bring. It really is an experience on a beautiful day.  

Agreed. When you walk in the door at Salt Lick and are greeted by this, it's beautiful. 

Then you realize it's for show and 95% of the meat is churned out in the gas powered ovens with a burning log for flavor in the back and you feel duped. Salt Lick would fit perfectly in Nashville. 

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On 4/11/2021 at 8:01 AM, Joe Bryant said:

The other Kansas City spot that gets all the love is Joe's Kansas City. Used to be called Oklahoma Joe's which was one of the dumber marketing moves for a place in Kansas City. Finally fixed it.

It's kind of cool as it used to be a gas station but it's way less cool than that sounds. It's ok and I definitely don't get the head over heels love it has. 

People love the Z-Man sandwich which is an abomination for BBQ adding provolone cheese and onion rings on a kaiser roll. No thanks. Those things are good but that's not BBQ. 

Second thing - a  general rule of thumb for BBQ (and anything) is how much sauce does it need to be good?

Let's say it like this, Kansas City BBQ needs a LOT of sauce.

Oh, come on now. :lol:

 

I love these threads because everyone's personal biases come out - and that's ok. BBQ is especially sensitive because everyone defends their local BBQ to the core.

For me, I like your posts about how BBQ is as much about the experience as it is the food. I like all BBQ - to me the hunt for a BBQ spot, the food, the different people that eat there, the different techniques - all of that adds to the romance of eating BBQ.

Now, to address your above post:

1. The Z-Man sandwich is a gift from the Gods. And I agree that on the surface is doesn't fit the criteria of BBQ in the traditional sense. But Joe's had the guts to try it, and that sandwich is a damn good sandwich. For those of us that eat a lot of BBQ, it's just something different. And that's ok too. But man, it's a good sandwich.

2. I disagree that Kansas City BBQ needs a lot of sauce. I'm sorry, I just do. There are some BBQ restaurants here that do use a lot of sauce unnecessarily, but then again we have a TON of BBQ places here. But a lot of places here do not need the sauce. 

But good BBQ sauce is an art on it's own. I like a good sauce from time to time. 

 

I believe in good BBQ everywhere. I think we can all agree that Texas is the king of the brisket. But what makes Kansas City BBQ great is the fact that Kansas City does everything well in all meats: ribs, brisket, pulled pork, chicken, sausage.  

Man, I'm hungry now. Love this thread.  :lol:

 

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8 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Agreed. When you walk in the door at Salt Lick and are greeted by this, it's beautiful. 

Then you realize it's for show and 95% of the meat is churned out in the gas powered ovens with a burning log for flavor in the back and you feel duped. Salt Lick would fit perfectly in Nashville. 

Haha.  I didn't know that.  I go for the outdoor seating, trees and views of the hilltop.  It's serviceable BBQ and always the place I take friends from NYC and Boston for an experience b/c quite frankly they'd be impressed with anything remotely edible.  Only word of advice is go midweek.  Not worth the lines.   Folks can get an idea here:  https://www.dave-eats.com/blog/a-classic-texas-barbeque-spot-salt-lick-bbq-review-driftwood-tx

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1 hour ago, Major said:

Haha.  I didn't know that.  I go for the outdoor seating, trees and views of the hilltop.  It's serviceable BBQ and always the place I take friends from NYC and Boston for an experience b/c quite frankly they'd be impressed with anything remotely edible.  Only word of advice is go midweek.  Not worth the lines.   Folks can get an idea here:  https://www.dave-eats.com/blog/a-classic-texas-barbeque-spot-salt-lick-bbq-review-driftwood-tx

100%.

I can't think of many spots better to introduce a non Texan to Texas. 

The vibe and shade trees and atmosphere screams Texas. So good. 

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3 hours ago, culdeus said:

Prior to Texas Monthly they were more known for ham steaks and turkey than brisket.  

Her setup cooking over a ground fire is more similar to a West Texas style and went out of favor a long time ago as it's a huge pain in the ###.  

The only other place that will still (sometimes) cook over ground fire that isn't surrounded by dust is Pecan Lodge, but there are surely others that still make an attempt.

I see the bigger problem in Texas is there is a lot of supply now.  And there's limited demand for 18/pound brisket sliced.  I haven't seen what Franklin is asking lately but 21-24 was the range I've heard lately.  That's nearly prime rib-eye at the store territory.    

 

Pretty sure Cooper's, at least in Llano still cooks W. Texas style. And Hard 8 in NTX. As Joe mentioned that style isn't really used with low and slow items though, even at those places.

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5 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

The ironic part of this @Major is my BBQ sauce is fantastic. ;)

That's my next business project. 

BBQ sauce and irony go hand in hand.  Living in Florida I typically will provide sauce when I cook for large groups.  It's far easier than having the conversation ad nauseum.

One time, I decided to offer a whole bunch of sauces as options. So I ordered some Rudy's, Franklin's Espresso, and Mueller's..probably others that I don't even recall at this point.  Now, having been to Mueller's more than any other spot I couldn't even recall ever seeing a sauce there. I think there maybe used to be a pot of an au jus type of thing many years ago but I sure don't see sauce there regularly.  But, they bottle one. It has kind of a french onion/butter flavor to it.  

The results were hilarious.  Mueller's sauce was the runaway winner with my crowd.  They universally hated Franklin's espresso sauce, and not surprisingly Rudy's was too spicy for their delicate palates.

So, maybe I've missed it all these years but I'm pretty sure the wining sauce came from a place that doesn't even provide it in their restaurant (and has no need to).

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8 minutes ago, Ron Swanson said:

 

Pretty sure Cooper's, at least in Llano still cooks W. Texas style. And Hard 8 in NTX. As Joe mentioned that style isn't really used with low and slow items though, even at those places.

Exactly right. 

In Texas, it's often more associated with grilling or campfire type cooking. Pork Steaks and Beef Steak type stuff.

In North Carolina, it's almost always how you see whole hog cooked. 

North Carolina is second to Texas for how they care about BBQ. 

And for NC, Sam Jones is king. An informative video here https://youtu.be/GKwt1yxnJoo

The shoveling coals business is a BIG deal to these folks. They will say the way Texans cook is crude. They'll call it "cooking in your chimney". And I'm sure there is truth there. Cooking over coals gives a much cleaner smoke. It's also wildly inefficient. Burning wood down to coals in a burn barrel means a TON of the heat released by the fire goes straight up the chimney and isn't used at all in the process. But they'll say it's better.

Having had the pleasure of eating at Skylight Inn, he might have a case. 

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On 4/10/2021 at 8:31 PM, Ghost Rider said:

We are lucky here in STL, as we have tons of great BBQ restaurants all over now. I go to Sugarfire the most because I live minutes from one, but we also have Pappy's, Gobble Stop Smokehouse, Dailey's and a bunch more I cannot recall off the top of my head. 

Bogart's :wub:

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Little Miss BBQ in Phoenix deserves a mention in here. The fatty brisket is exceptional. They also have specials on Thursdays (pastrami) and Friday/Saturday (beef ribs) that keep me going back almost exclusively on those 3 days.

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32 minutes ago, Ron Swanson said:

BBQ sauce and irony go hand in hand.  Living in Florida I typically will provide sauce when I cook for large groups.  It's far easier than having the conversation ad nauseum.

One time, I decided to offer a whole bunch of sauces as options. So I ordered some Rudy's, Franklin's Espresso, and Mueller's..probably others that I don't even recall at this point.  Now, having been to Mueller's more than any other spot I couldn't even recall ever seeing a sauce there. I think there maybe used to be a pot of an au jus type of thing many years ago but I sure don't see sauce there regularly.  But, they bottle one. It has kind of a french onion/butter flavor to it.  

The results were hilarious.  Mueller's sauce was the runaway winner with my crowd.  They universally hated Franklin's espresso sauce, and not surprisingly Rudy's was too spicy for their delicate palates.

So, maybe I've missed it all these years but I'm pretty sure the wining sauce came from a place that doesn't even provide it in their restaurant (and has no need to).

 

Mueller's beef ribs are so damn good. John Mueller has a relatively new place up in Georgetown but I haven't been. He's always put out great barbecue, though. So I'm sure its great.

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30 minutes ago, whoknew said:

 

Mueller's beef ribs are so damn good. John Mueller has a relatively new place up in Georgetown but I haven't been. He's always put out great barbecue, though. So I'm sure its great.

The Mueller family is super interesting. John is definitely the wilder one. He was in ICU last week, have you heard anything more? 

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6 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

The ironic part of this @Major is my BBQ sauce is fantastic. ;)

That's my next business project. 

Want to trade mason jars of our bbq sauce? I'm due to make some in a few weeks. 

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