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It's All About Spa-Mar (DelaToga?) Now Featuring Degen Bullrings For Your Disposable Income & Derision 🐎 (Missing GB MoCS)


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Baffert was on Dan Patrick show just now, as I drove my son to school.  He's claiming sabotage, motivated by peoples' jealousy of his success.  Swore up and down they didn't give the horse that drug.  The only thing that makes that somewhat believable is it would be stupid to drug the horse if they KNEW he would be tested and that drug would show up in the test.

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1 minute ago, Leroy Hoard said:

I would be all over that but it sounds like a sucker bet if Maryland decides to block him from running.

well, yeah ... that's the hook. 

think i'll be in the Midnight Bourbon camp, regardless. 

 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, facook said:

Baffert was on Dan Patrick show just now, as I drove my son to school.  He's claiming sabotage, motivated by peoples' jealousy of his success.  Swore up and down they didn't give the horse that drug.  The only thing that makes that somewhat believable is it would be stupid to drug the horse if they KNEW he would be tested and that drug would show up in the test.

dunno on this one ... he dodged a yuuuuuge bullet with Justify's (alleged) dirty S.A. Derby test in '18 (which would've prevented him from qualifying for the KDerby) - think this is gonna be the one that finally bites his ### in grand fashion - too much smoke 'round him these past few years. 

Edited by otb_lifer
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run your hand from fetlock to haunch, ask yourself are these the structures by which a 1000+ animal should be propelled at 40mph, then come back to me w your picograms. yeah, i know everybody's gotta follow the rules, but nobody does and, as long as they have blood-doping under control (do they? i honestly dont know - they beat back Oscar Barrera yrs ago is all i know -  but it's the only cheating that really matters) it's pretty even across with the top horses and anti-inflammatories are the only way to keep thoroughbreds upright and owners happy. tempest in a teapot -

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1 hour ago, facook said:

Baffert was on Dan Patrick show just now, as I drove my son to school.  He's claiming sabotage, motivated by peoples' jealousy of his success.  Swore up and down they didn't give the horse that drug.  The only thing that makes that somewhat believable is it would be stupid to drug the horse if they KNEW he would be tested and that drug would show up in the test.

That's not really an argument.  Every athlete that takes steroids can say the same thing.  "Why would I take them if I knew they were testing for them."

It could be that the horse doesn't metabolize them as quick as they thought, or whatever they use to fool the test (blockers) did not work as expected.  Or maybe someone snuck them into the horse's water bottle like they did to Ben Johnson.

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Look, at last year's KD, Baffert had a horse rear up, injure one of his lackies and scratch.  Then his other horse wins it, Baffert runs over heroically, pleads into the camera that he's off to see his injured employee who he cares deeply about, then poses for the cameras in the winner's circle when Authentic reared up and knocked old White Privilege Bob onto his ###.  I'm sure it was just a coincidence that his two ponies went agro-roid-rage before and after the race.  Totally no drugs involved at all.  

Dude is dirtier than a Frenchman at a Bourbon Street Brothel.  Problem is they are ALL dirty and so be careful of glass houses and all that....

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1 minute ago, General Malaise said:

Look, at last year's KD, Baffert had a horse rear up, injure one of his lackies and scratch.  Then his other horse wins it, Baffert runs over heroically, pleads into the camera that he's off to see his injured employee who he cares deeply about, then poses for the cameras in the winner's circle when Authentic reared up and knocked old White Privilege Bob onto his ###.  I'm sure it was just a coincidence that his two ponies went agro-roid-rage before and after the race.  Totally no drugs involved at all.  

Dude is dirtier than a Frenchman at a Bourbon Street Brothel.  Problem is they are ALL dirty and so be careful of glass houses and all that....

We could see a repeat of what happened with cycling.  Once Armstrong got busted, all the dirty laundry came out.

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they should have one year where all of the owners who got caught cheating have to run the race while a jockey whips the hell out of them take that to the bank brohans 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Payne said:

It frustrates me how many horses are pulled from the Preakness. Was it always like this? 

it's finally time to change that. do it like the golf has done with majors (and TPC) - Derby/May, Preakness/June, Belmont/July, Travers/Aug, Haskell/ LaborDay, meet the elders @ Belmont in Oct, BreedersCup/Nov. an event each good-weather month - satisfy the owners & fans.

i'm olskool. grew up (MA fair tracks) AND became an owner (Santa Fe Downs) on bottom circuits. saw trainers try to cash in on the State Fair in Albq boosted purse $$ by running their $2K claimers 6-7 times in 17 days. most horses can handle it, but risk rises exponentially with value. thought the two wks til Preakness and three til Belmont was part of the test. but trainers cant make enough excuses with owner money to keep up widdat. put in a points/bonus system and your horse can run for big dough 6 times in 6 mos - sumn any healthy aniscule can do. just as classic as the Classics

Edited by wikkidpissah
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Pretty arrogant comment from Baffert in regards to Churchill Downs.

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“I thought I had had a pretty good relation(ship) with them with all the stuff I’ve done with my Triple Crown winners,” he said. “I’m the face of the sport and I’m trying to promote my sport. And that was a pretty low blow, what they did yesterday. I wish they would’ve called me.”

 

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56 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

Pretty arrogant comment from Baffert in regards to Churchill Downs.

 

running to the My Pillow Guy network straight away to defend himself doesn't exactly scream innocent to me :unsure:

-QG

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Read the 1968 article about the last time this happened and Forward Pass was awarded the KD win.  Back then only the winner and one other random horse got the saliva/urine test.  Is that still the case?  For a sport with such scrutiny and with a race with such high stakes I would think they should test all 19 runners.

-QG

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4 hours ago, Payne said:

It frustrates me how many horses are pulled from the Preakness. Was it always like this? 

Sort of.  The only reason to run is if you think you can get Grade 1 black type.  You better think you have a chance for a placing to run.  Either that or you have an owner just happy to be there and wants to get dressed up for the party and experience.  Nobody, I mean nobody, races a good horse on 2 weeks rest.  They typically want 6 weeks.  Cheap horses, maybe. But not good horses.  So to think your horse can run 1 1/4 for the first time, recover and then ship again in 2 weeks is a stretch.  Live to see another day with all of the big races later on.  Travers, Pacific Classic, Breeders Cup, etc.

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27 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

Sort of.  The only reason to run is if you think you can get Grade 1 black type.  You better think you have a chance for a placing to run.  Either that or you have an owner just happy to be there and wants to get dressed up for the party and experience.  Nobody, I mean nobody, races a good horse on 2 weeks rest.  They typically want 6 weeks.  Cheap horses, maybe. But not good horses.  So to think your horse can run 1 1/4 for the first time, recover and then ship again in 2 weeks is a stretch.  Live to see another day with all of the big races later on.  Travers, Pacific Classic, Breeders Cup, etc.

3 races in 5 weeks is too much. I always liked the idea of spacing it to the Preakness around Memorial Day and the Belmont to July 4th.

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Stettin from PTW  with some questions/points that run counter to the witch hunt ... if one has the time (and actually gives a ####), then pull up a chair - lots to sift through.

 

ps - lemme just say that nothing coming out this story/industry would shock me in the least ...if there was third party malfeasance, well - color me unimpressed. 

 

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1 hour ago, Leroy Hoard said:

3 races in 5 weeks is too much. I always liked the idea of spacing it to the Preakness around Memorial Day and the Belmont to July 4th.

apparently not for some though.  

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7 hours ago, facook said:

Baffert was on Dan Patrick show just now, as I drove my son to school.  He's claiming sabotage, motivated by peoples' jealousy of his success.  Swore up and down they didn't give the horse that drug.  The only thing that makes that somewhat believable is it would be stupid to drug the horse if they KNEW he would be tested and that drug would show up in the test.

Same drug Gamine tested positive for--twice (actually 4 times, since both times it was a split test).

Quote

Maybe so. Still, it hasn't helped Baffert's case that Gamine was the only one of  89 tested horses to produce a positive on Oaks or Derby Day. Or that the betamethasone detected in her sample was the trainer's fourth known medication issue of 2020.

"For those of you that have been upset over the incidents of this past year, I share in your disappointment," Baffert said in a prepared statement released the day before Gamine's Oaks Day positive was confirmed. "I humbly vow to do everything within my power to do better. I want my legacy to be one of making every effort to do right by the horse and the sport."

 

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56 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

Stettin from PTW  with some questions/points that run counter to the witch hunt ... if one has the time (and actually gives a ####), then pull up a chair - lots to sift through.

 

ps - lemme just say that nothing coming out this story/industry would shock me in the least ...if there was third party malfeasance, well - color me unimpressed. 

 

Arguing about BBB status is just pointless and shows there's nothing there.   

They do split tests.   There's no way to screw up both samples and get the same result. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, -fish- said:

Arguing about BBB status is just pointless and shows there's nothing there.   

They do split tests.   There's no way to screw up both samples and get the same result. 

i'm not here to defend or indict him, just posting a piece i thought raised some questions that reach beyond the BBB schtick - though it is curious that the game's most prestigious race used such a wobbly lab. 

did you bother to read the article from 5/9 that he linked to?

sure, he can be a pure BB shill, or he could be asking for due process before sharpening the pitchforks  ... but who gives a flying fiddler's ####?  he has zero say in the proceedings/outcome.  FULL. STOP. 

 

Edited by otb_lifer
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5 hours ago, Leroy Hoard said:

3 races in 5 weeks is too much. I always liked the idea of spacing it to the Preakness around Memorial Day and the Belmont to July 4th.

It's why it's called the test of champions though

-QG

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5 hours ago, otb_lifer said:

Stettin from PTW  with some questions/points that run counter to the witch hunt ... if one has the time (and actually gives a ####), then pull up a chair - lots to sift through.

 

ps - lemme just say that nothing coming out this story/industry would shock me in the least ...if there was third party malfeasance, well - color me unimpressed. 

 

Part of why I ask if all 19 horses were tested.

I mean BB had what - 4 runners?  Seems like a pretty good guess to dope the 12-1 shot that happens to win (though maybe the guy could just whiz in the hay bales in all 4 Baffert stalls I guess ;) ) - such a contingency to frame up a guy and really goes against Occam's razor.

Though the number of horse racing stories that read like Columbo episode is not small...

(yes I need to read the article still but the points were in my mind before so I figure it's a relative post to tag 'em along with - will read it :) )

-QG

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4 hours ago, otb_lifer said:

i'm not here to defend or indict him, just posting a piece i thought raised some questions that reach beyond the BBB schtick - though it is curious that the game's most prestigious race used such a wobbly lab. 

did you bother to read the article from 5/9 that he linked to?

sure, he can be a pure BB shill, or he could be asking for due process before sharpening the pitchforks  ... but who gives a flying fiddler's ####?  he has zero say in the proceedings/outcome.  FULL. STOP. 

 

Yeah, I read it.   He said this:

Quote

I deplore cheating in horse racing. I think cheaters rob us all, owners, breeders, and of course bettors. I am for 24/7 surveillance of every stall, centralized pharmacies, one governing body, zero tolerance of any cheating, doping, or race fixing

But while saying that he spent an entire article defending Baffert and claiming he didn't cheat.   But he cheated with Gamine (twice) and this is his fourth dirty horse in a year.   I grew up at the tracks on the SoCal circuit.  Baffert cheating has been a poorly kept secret for years.

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Honestly I've never thought of Baffert as a blatant cheater. Most of the cheaters are claiming trainers.  The ones who pick up a horse and they improve 20 lengths first start.  40+% first off the claim, etc.  In past years out West the suspicions were on guys like Jeff Mullins and Doug O'Neill.  Mullins was supposed to be the master milkshaker. Him and his horses were both juiced.  For awhile it was Rudy Rodriguez in NY, Jorge Navarro in FL, Karl Broberg in LA. And Dutrow in NY was the one who get the 10 year ban.  Never thought of Baffert as one of those guys - but I could be wrong.  A great vet is often the MVP of these teams.

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15 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Post draw is at 4pm eastern.

 trainer of Keepmeinmind shipped him via van early this morning - he really ran a very respectable and resilient Derby, closing up to 7th (or 6th, depending on MS) after being damn near dead last turning for home. 

i used him on all my tix, and touted his ### up in here prior to ... anyways, i expect a much hotter pace at Pimlico - NICE PRICE on this cat, and i'll likely be using him as my key in this one. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Bob Baffert issued the following statement via his attorney, Craig Robertson, on Tuesday:

"On May 8, 2021, I was informed by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission that Medina Spirit allegedly tested positive for 21 picograms of betamethasone. On May 9, 2021, I held a press conference in which I stated that I intended to thoroughly investigate how this could have happened and that I would be completely transparent throughout the process. I immediately began that investigation, which has resulted in me learning of a possible source for the betamethasone, and now, as promised, I want to be forthright about what I have learned.

Following the Santa Anita Derby, Medina Spirit developed dermatitis on his hind end. I had him checked out by my veterinarian who recommended the use of an anti-fungal ointment called Otomax. The veterinary recommendation was to apply this ointment daily to give the horse relief, help heal the dermatitis, and prevent it from spreading. My barn followed this recommendation and Medina Spirit was treated with Otomax once a day up until the day before the Kentucky Derby. Yesterday, I was informed that one of the substances in Otomax is betamethasone.

While we do not know definitively that this was the source of the alleged 21 picograms found in Medina Spirit's post-race blood sample, and our investigation is continuing, I have been told by equine pharmacology experts that this could explain the test results. As such, I wanted to be forthright about this fact as soon as I learned of this information.

As I have stated, my investigation is continuing and we do not know for sure if this ointment was the cause of the test results, or if the test results are even accurate, as they have yet to be confirmed by the split sample. However, again, I have been told that a finding of a small amount, such as 21 picograms, could be consistent with application of this type of ointment. I intend to continue to investigate and I will continue to be transparent.

In the meantime, I want to reiterate two points I made when this matter initially came to light. First, I had no knowledge of how betamethasone could have possibly found its way into Medina Spirit (until now) and this has never been a case of attempting to game the system or get an unfair advantage. Second, horse racing must address its regulatory problem when it comes to substances which can innocuously find their way into a horse's system at the picogram (which is a trillionth of a gram) level. Medina Spirit earned his Kentucky Derby win and my pharmacologists have told me that 21 picograms of betamethasone would have had no effect on the outcome of the race. Medina Spirit is a deserved champion and I will continue to fight for him."

 Baffert provided this photograph, indicating the subject is Medina Spirit and the dermatitis on his hind end following the Santa Anita Derby.

 

Edited by otb_lifer
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2 hours ago, otb_lifer said:

 trainer of Keepmeinmind shipped him via van early this morning - he really ran a very respectable and resilient Derby, closing up to 7th (or 6th, depending on MS) after being damn near dead last turning for home. 

i used him on all my tix, and touted his ### up in here prior to ... anyways, i expect a much hotter pace at Pimlico - NICE PRICE on this cat, and i'll likely be using him as my key in this one. 

 

I'll keep him in mind

-QG

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10 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

I think they need to retest the horse, but I think they should also test Baffert, himself.  There's no knowing what they'll find in that test.

Tainted piss hay?

-QG

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Posted (edited)

fortunately, last year's hay reserves were plentiful in VT so, after a mad rush of procuring and slamming gallons of the new NSAID-flavored Mountain Dew, i am proud to partner with Amazon to offer wikkidpisshay™ to anyone trying to get into the final two legs of the Triple Crown

Edited by wikkidpissah
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41 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

fortunately, last year's hay reserves were plentiful in VT so, after a mad rush of procuring and slamming gallons of the new NSAID-flavored Mountain Dew, i am proud to partner with Amazon to offer wikkidpisshay™ to anyone trying to get into the final two legs of the Triple Crown

Urine the money!💰

 

 

 

(ready for the onslaught of these: 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔)

:popcorn:

 

 

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2 hours ago, otb_lifer said:

Bob Baffert issued the following statement via his attorney, Craig Robertson, on Tuesday:

"On May 8, 2021, I was informed by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission that Medina Spirit allegedly tested positive for 21 picograms of betamethasone. On May 9, 2021, I held a press conference in which I stated that I intended to thoroughly investigate how this could have happened and that I would be completely transparent throughout the process. I immediately began that investigation, which has resulted in me learning of a possible source for the betamethasone, and now, as promised, I want to be forthright about what I have learned.

Following the Santa Anita Derby, Medina Spirit developed dermatitis on his hind end. I had him checked out by my veterinarian who recommended the use of an anti-fungal ointment called Otomax. The veterinary recommendation was to apply this ointment daily to give the horse relief, help heal the dermatitis, and prevent it from spreading. My barn followed this recommendation and Medina Spirit was treated with Otomax once a day up until the day before the Kentucky Derby. Yesterday, I was informed that one of the substances in Otomax is betamethasone.

While we do not know definitively that this was the source of the alleged 21 picograms found in Medina Spirit's post-race blood sample, and our investigation is continuing, I have been told by equine pharmacology experts that this could explain the test results. As such, I wanted to be forthright about this fact as soon as I learned of this information.

As I have stated, my investigation is continuing and we do not know for sure if this ointment was the cause of the test results, or if the test results are even accurate, as they have yet to be confirmed by the split sample. However, again, I have been told that a finding of a small amount, such as 21 picograms, could be consistent with application of this type of ointment. I intend to continue to investigate and I will continue to be transparent.

In the meantime, I want to reiterate two points I made when this matter initially came to light. First, I had no knowledge of how betamethasone could have possibly found its way into Medina Spirit (until now) and this has never been a case of attempting to game the system or get an unfair advantage. Second, horse racing must address its regulatory problem when it comes to substances which can innocuously find their way into a horse's system at the picogram (which is a trillionth of a gram) level. Medina Spirit earned his Kentucky Derby win and my pharmacologists have told me that 21 picograms of betamethasone would have had no effect on the outcome of the race. Medina Spirit is a deserved champion and I will continue to fight for him."

 Baffert provided this photograph, indicating the subject is Medina Spirit and the dermatitis on his hind end following the Santa Anita Derby.

 

Sorry.  Just like in baseball.  Ignorance is no excuse. You and you alone are responsible for what enters your horse's body.  The "I didn't know this ingredient was in this ointment" argument doesn't fly.  DQ. Suspend.  Bet it doesn't happen to him again.  Same with the cough medicine being pissed out of a hot walker onto hay.  No excuses.  To be clear - they need this standardized nationally.  Not by state or local horse racing boards. That's 99% of the problem.  There are several things that need to be cleaned up about horse racing.  Abuse of meds is #1.  But they also have to fix the trust with horseplayers.  Can't tell you how many times I've bet a horse at 5-1, he breaks on top and the odds go to 3-1.  Never goes the other way.  There is past/posting betting going on somehow. The wise guys can't always be right.

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7 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

Sorry.  Just like in baseball.  Ignorance is no excuse. You and you alone are responsible for what enters your horse's body.  The "I didn't know this ingredient was in this ointment" argument doesn't fly.  DQ. Suspend.  Bet it doesn't happen to him again.  Same with the cough medicine being pissed out of a hot walker onto hay.  No excuses.  To be clear - they need this standardized nationally.  Not by state or local horse racing boards. That's 99% of the problem.  There are several things that need to be cleaned up about horse racing.  Abuse of meds is #1.  But they also have to fix the trust with horseplayers.  Can't tell you how many times I've bet a horse at 5-1, he breaks on top and the odds go to 3-1.  Never goes the other way.  There is past/posting betting going on somehow. The wise guys can't always be right.

At one time both boxing and horse racing were among the top sports in America. Fan distrust of each industry were a main cause of their fall.

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4 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

Sorry.  Just like in baseball.  Ignorance is no excuse. You and you alone are responsible for what enters your horse's body.  The "I didn't know this ingredient was in this ointment" argument doesn't fly.  DQ. Suspend.  Bet it doesn't happen to him again.  Same with the cough medicine being pissed out of a hot walker onto hay.  No excuses.  To be clear - they need this standardized nationally.  Not by state or local horse racing boards. That's 99% of the problem.  There are several things that need to be cleaned up about horse racing.  Abuse of meds is #1.  But they also have to fix the trust with horseplayers.  Can't tell you how many times I've bet a horse at 5-1, he breaks on top and the odds go to 3-1.  Never goes the other way.  There is past/posting betting going on somehow. The wise guys can't always be right.

dunno if you sat thru that Bernier vid i posted earlier, but he touches on all of those points - with legalized books popping up damn near nationwide, the game is endangering the ONE asset it could always count on: the players.  easier access to betting on any/everything else will certainly eat into the sport's bread and butter if they (players) continue to get the short shrift ... and the casual fan is not gonna wanna be plunking on events that they will perceive as "rigged" going in. 

folks who have been at this a long time know that it has always been the baked in *winkwink* caveat that one enters in to when placing bets - we've seen this go on for years. 

to your point about the odds drop after race starting ... that is now being fobbed off as "it's the late online money that takes a few seconds longer to register"

the lower level bullrings are growing notorious for this, though the argument can be made that their smaller pools are more susceptible to seismic shifts if enough is bet to tilt it from 5/1 to 8/5 (which i saw at Mountaineer last week).

but it's getting to the ridiculous level lately ... sleeping with dogs will get one fleas. 

 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

At one time both boxing and horse racing were among the top sports in America. Fan distrust of each industry were a main cause of their fall.

i still put the Ruffian debacle as the main death knell - that was a nationally televised match race, swept up in the whole "Battle of the Sexes" schtick permeating the era ... and Ruffian was such a majestic and beloved animal ... to see her go down on that track, in front of so many who were there for the spectacle and pageantry, well ... it was as tragic as anything the sport could have ever seen.  what was supposed to be a celebration of excellence and the overwhelming beauty of the game morphed into a televised death/wake/funeral. instead of heaping accolades at the magnificent filly, we had bewildered epitaphs, instead. 

no surprise it was the last match race ... and even with the super horses of the 70s that followed (including 2 more Triple Crowns), the game took a blow it will never recover from. 

 

Edited by otb_lifer
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  • otb_lifer changed the title to ***Official 2021 Preakness Thread*** Baffert Duo Cleared For Pimlico 🐎 (Missing GB MoCS)
3 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Would someone intentionally run at BBs favorite just to make a point? Seems like a good bet against if we can figure out the benefactors of such a scene.

ironically enough, it's his other horse, Concert Tour, that can best get out and put MS in the dust. 

dunno if Midnight Bourbon is gonna wanna suicide out that first 1/2, but he'll definitely be on their asses. 

this sets up as a perfect scenario for Keepmeinmind. 

 

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  • otb_lifer changed the title to ***Official 2021 Belmont Stakes Thread*** Zahzeetch Fest At Big Sandy - Mal Sits It Out 🐎 (Missing GB MoCS)
  • otb_lifer changed the title to It's All About Spa-Mar (DelaToga?) Now Featuring Degen Bullrings For Your Disposable Income & Derision 🐎 (Missing GB MoCS)

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