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Are Dems starting to lose the Centrist Democrats? (1 Viewer)

Summer Wheat

Footballguy
Listening to POTUS Radio last night some pundits were asking why the Dems do not cater more to their Centrist base that is much bigger than their progessive base. That they need to be careful.

Theory was that the hard line left and progressives have nowhere to go but to vote Democrat.  They are never going to vote GOP so they are stuck no matter what. 

The Centrist Democrats who can sway elections normally always vote Dem but can be swayed to the other side if too many drastic changes are made and if the GOP moves more to the middle.

Same thing goes with GOP. The hard right are going nowhere but they need that middle vote from both sides.

Discussion was in coming election cycles the GOP will move more to the middle to go after capture the Centrist Dem votes that is a much bigger slice of the pie than most realize because they are not as loud as progressives. 

Both parties really need to evaluate their directions going forward.

 
As an honest answer from someone who trends right of center, I am more likely to vote for a democrat than a republican for two reasons.

1) I dislike the positions of the far left (pull police funding, reparations, free college) a lot less than the positions of the far right (god in school, isolationism). One side wants to give more without any way to pay for it. The other wants to take without any consideration of what's being taken.

2) I trust centrist democrats more than centrist republicans. A whole party went over Niagara Falls with Trump. Biden and Harris represent the power of the centrist democrat. Even Warren or Sanders aren't so far to the left that I'd fear for the republic as I did January 6th.

 
Really depends on the direction of the Trump Party.

I do think moderate voters are feeling marginalized on either side.  But, general public opinion right now tilts towards the left on most issues.  So, if the alternatives are Biden-esque, or Trump-esque, I think most (or enough) in the middle will vote (D).

 
Really depends on the direction of the Trump Party.

I do think moderate voters are feeling marginalized on either side.  But, general public opinion right now tilts towards the left on most issues.  So, if the alternatives are Biden-esque, or Trump-esque, I think most (or enough) in the middle will vote (D).
My thoughts exactly. What are moderate Republicans offering to moderate Democrats to get them to switch.  Saying "but the deficit" doesn't carry much weight from the Republicans anymore. Some of it's social issues to. Gun control, climate change. Lot of moderate Democrats are for changes in those areas, the Republicans not so much.

 
My thoughts exactly. What are moderate Republicans offering to moderate Democrats to get them to switch.  Saying "but the deficit" doesn't carry much weight from the Republicans anymore. Some of it's social issues to. Gun control, climate change. Lot of moderate Democrats are for changes in those areas, the Republicans not so much.
Yep.  I would love to see either party offer a true centrist alternative.   A party that sidelines either the Marjorie Greene Taylor type or the AOC type.  I don't want to be in a party that bows to either one.   It would be great to see a party that tackles tough issues and solves real problems -- or gets out of the way and lets states and municipalities......or (shock and horror) lets citizens solve problems themselves.

 
Really depends on the direction of the Trump Party.

I do think moderate voters are feeling marginalized on either side.  But, general public opinion right now tilts towards the left on most issues.  So, if the alternatives are Biden-esque, or Trump-esque, I think most (or enough) in the middle will vote (D).
Can't really add any more than this.

Ol Mitt Romney is making a serious play to be the moderate guy for the Republicans. He's been Anti-Trump on many topics, every story I read with his name has "bi-partisan" in it.

Will be shocked if he's not running.

 
I mean - I sort of get the point. But the leaders of the Democratic party are Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, and Chuck Schumer. 

None of them would be described as radical liberals. The current legislation they are looking to pass seems left of center but not far left. It doesn't seem to me like this is a radical party seeking radical goals.

 
I can only speak for myself but...not yet. The Trumpers have made it rather easy for me to stay in place. So did the victory of Joe Biden. 
 

But the future is always a question mark...

 
I'm not sure i see much for radical policy honestly.

The right has gone so all in on Trump that what is normal every day policy seems radical to them.

 
Can't really add any more than this.

Ol Mitt Romney is making a serious play to be the moderate guy for the Republicans. He's been Anti-Trump on many topics, every story I read with his name has "bi-partisan" in it.

Will be shocked if he's not running.
If Mitt does run, he will once again be cast as a racist dog killing misogynist and most people that praised his statesmanship during impeachment will be fine with it.

 
Exactly. Every lefty loved McCain until he ran. Then he was the devil himself,
I liked McCain's willingness to be somewhat intellectually honest but had no interest in voting for him.  I didn't have a single lefty friend or family member express a desire to vote for him back then.   Your narrative doesn't match my recollection even remotely.

But you are probably right that a lot of people who vocally support Romney now would trash him and vote Dem if he runs in 2024.

 
If Mitt does run, he will once again be cast as a racist dog killing misogynist and most people that praised his statesmanship during impeachment will be fine with it.
That's politics. Always was, always will be. It is up to people to determine what they want to believe.

 
Exactly. Every lefty loved McCain until he ran. Then he was the devil himself.
This is how the game works. Not really shocking. 

Bush :allegedly: smeared McCain's adopted child to take him out in 2000. Big stakes brings out the worst in people unfortunately. 

 
That’s the beauty of this country and the importance of having checks and balances. The country swings one direction and then once it gets too far and swing back the other direction. 

 
Listening to POTUS Radio last night some pundits were asking why the Dems do not cater more to their Centrist base that is much bigger than their progessive base. That they need to be careful.
Were they discussing anything in particular? 

 
January 6th absolutely threw a wrecking ball into the entirety of the republican party.  Up to that point the republicans had some ground to stand on.  That all went up in flames on that day.

So now, the dems don't have to cater to anyone or worry about centrists.  They will lose a few to the right because of the far left policies guys like Tim are behind, but that wont be enough to influence elections significantly.   

Gonna be a long road to recovery and unfortunately I don't see Trump being the right step for that repair.  So we are stuck with this crap for a while.

 
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Methinks this is much ado about nothing.  The "center" has moved a lot over the years and in some ways a guy like Reagan or Bush 1 would not even be considered a Republican anymore, much less a center right republican.  Center left still has people in the party they can identify with (including the current president).  Moreover, a lot of the "lefty bills" are things that most mainstream people agree with, even republicans (Tax reform, Gun Control, corporations being taxed, etc.).

Now, the over-woke twitterati that thinks Lincoln was a racist bc he owned slaves or would get mad at me for not banging the drum all day are the people I think viscerally annoy the center left people.

Edit to add: What do republicans stand for now, anyway?  Police?  No they killed one on the 6th.  Military?  No their savior called them losers?  The deficit?  Nope..  All the right has right now is voter suppression and guns.

 
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I would vote for Mitt over Biden if both ran.  Easily.  And I'm not someone who has pulled the red lever in a long time.   Lots of friends/colleagues who feel similarly.
Same here.  Trump was a historically bad president.  Biden is a good placeholder and palette-cleanser, but he's at least 10 years too old for the job and while having the country on autopilot is fine compared to the last guy, it's not ideal.  Romney would mark a return to having a normal president again.

 
Same here.  Trump was a historically bad president.  Biden is a good placeholder and palette-cleanser, but he's at least 10 years too old for the job and while having the country on autopilot is fine compared to the last guy, it's not ideal.  Romney would mark a return to having a normal president again.
but Romney couldn't win the primary.  The right is going to trot out someone like DeSantis next go round, assuming Trump stays out. DeSantis is like a Moderate Trump at least n the way he clothes himself.  Whether he could thread the needle of keeping Trumps base without looking like a loon is the key here.

 
Methinks this is much ado about nothing.  The "center" has moved a lot over the years and in some ways a guy like Reagan or Bush 1 would not even be considered a Republican anymore, much less a center right republican.  Center left still has people in the party they can identify with (including the current president).  Moreover, a lot of the "lefty bills" are things that most mainstream people agree with, even republicans (Tax reform, Gun Control, corporations being taxed, etc.).

Now, the over-woke twitterati that thinks Lincoln was a racist bc he owned slaves or would get mad at me for not banging the drum all day are the people I think viscerally annoy the center left people.

Edit to add: What do republicans stand for now, anyway?  Police?  No they killed one on the 6th.  Military?  No their savior called them losers?  The deficit?  Nope..  All the right has right now is voter suppression and guns.
I don't think this is true.  I would venture a guess that most republicans DO NOT agree with the "lefty bills" and it is arrogance like that that doesn't help the party at all.

 
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but Romney couldn't win the primary.  The right is going to trot out someone like DeSantis next go round, assuming Trump stays out. DeSantis is like a Moderate Trump at least n the way he clothes himself.  Whether he could thread the needle of keeping Trumps base without looking like a loon is the key here.
Oh yeah I agree.  The Republican party is not Mitt Romney's party any more, and he's not really welcome there.  I'm just saying that it would be nice to live in a world where that wasn't the case.

 
I don't think this is true.  I would venture a guess that most republicans DO NOT agree with the "lefty bills" and it is arrogance like that that doesn't help the party at all.
They agreed with the Stimulus.  they agree with the current gun laws the dems are trying to get through (mental health and backround checks).

Places where there is a plurality that are labeled "lefty" include infrastructure, health care, corporate taxation, marijuana legalization, and, strangely enough, the black lives matter movement (In the wake of George Floyd). Fox news and some of the "extreme right" media try and hyperbole their way into making this about what it isn't but once it gets explained (and most Moderates look at the shades of grey) then it changes.

Biden is smart to say "republican voters" agree with what he is doing bc the Senate republicans do not represent the Moderate Republican base.  It's probably the best place to look at this.  The "fringe" democratic senators are Bernie (not a democrat) and Elizabeth Warren. out of 50 Dem Senators you may consider, what, 10 to be ultra left while on the right out of 50 senators maybe 10 are not ultra right.

 
As a radical leftist myself, I don't really understand why people can say with a straight face the the centrist Democrats are being muted.  Basically none of my agenda is on the table right now
What do you want on the table?  
 

I think like any other time, when the R’s have a more attractive candidate than Trump for the centralists, they will come back.  

 
Same here.  Trump was a historically bad president.  Biden is a good placeholder and palette-cleanser, but he's at least 10 years too old for the job and while having the country on autopilot is fine compared to the last guy, it's not ideal.  Romney would mark a return to having a normal president again.
Yep.   Watching Biden give a speech is painful.  He wasn't considered well equipped for the job when he was younger.....but somehow he's president.  Because he ran against someone who was historically bad.    Think about how abysmal that means H Clinton was to lose in 2016.....

 
January 6th absolutely threw a wrecking ball into the entirety of the republican party.  Up to that point the republicans had some ground to stand on.  That all went up in flames on that day.

So now, the dems don't have to cater to anyone or worry about centrists.  They will lose a few to the right because of the far left policies guys like Tim are behind, but that wont be enough to influence elections significantly.   

Gonna be a long road to recovery and unfortunately I don't see Trump being the right step for that repair.  So we are stuck with this crap for a while.
First paragraph spot on. 

 
They agreed with the Stimulus.  they agree with the current gun laws the dems are trying to get through (mental health and backround checks).

Places where there is a plurality that are labeled "lefty" include infrastructure, health care, corporate taxation, marijuana legalization, and, strangely enough, the black lives matter movement (In the wake of George Floyd). Fox news and some of the "extreme right" media try and hyperbole their way into making this about what it isn't but once it gets explained (and most Moderates look at the shades of grey) then it changes.

Biden is smart to say "republican voters" agree with what he is doing bc the Senate republicans do not represent the Moderate Republican base.  It's probably the best place to look at this.  The "fringe" democratic senators are Bernie (not a democrat) and Elizabeth Warren. out of 50 Dem Senators you may consider, what, 10 to be ultra left while on the right out of 50 senators maybe 10 are not ultra right.
You're so wrong.  You're completely wrong.   But we can agree to disagree.  However I will say I will never be so arrogant with my party to say "Well the my party's positions are so awesome sauce that even the other side likes them"  Cause generally, this is untrue.

 
What do you want on the table?  
 

I think like any other time, when the R’s have a more attractive candidate than Trump for the centralists, they will come back.  
Off the top of my head:

  • Universal Healthcare
  • Legalize all drugs
  • Expansion of "free" higher education (university & vocational)
  • Education reform at the primary level
  • Higher taxes on corporations and high income earners.
  • Criminal justice reform (ban private prisons, ban capital punishment, shorter prison sentences)
  • Stricter federal gun control

 
Oh yeah I agree.  The Republican party is not Mitt Romney's party any more, and he's not really welcome there.  I'm just saying that it would be nice to live in a world where that wasn't the case.
I could easily vote for Larry Hogan if he was on the ballot. But we know that will not happen in 2024.

 
You're so wrong.  You're completely wrong.   But we can agree to disagree.  However I will say I will never be so arrogant with my party to say "Well the my party's positions are so awesome sauce that even the other side likes them"  Cause generally, this is untrue.
That's fair, but polling disagrees with you.

Personally, I believe there is room to debate the merits of all of these proposals (Hell, even abortion).  The issue, at least in my opinion is most moderate Republicans (voters and representatives) would at least like to have the debate but the party leadership thinks just saying no is better politics.  It very well might be, but then what exactly does your party stand for?  
There was no republican health plan (well, there was Romneycare), There was no republican infrastructure plan. etc etc.  When the right had the wheel all they could pass was a tax cut.  There were no policies we could have a robust debate about, it was "hey free college for everyone sucks", but no clear plan.

Again, Dickies laid out some pretty important yet simple things we could talk about but there is no "moderate republican" to have those discussions with.

 
I would vote for Mitt over Biden if both ran.  Easily.  And I'm not someone who has pulled the red lever in a long time.   Lots of friends/colleagues who feel similarly.
Mitt can't make it out of the Primary.

The one thing the D's have going for him is that ANY candidate that makes it out of the R Primary will have to kiss the ring of Trump.  That's an effective talking point.  

 
That's fair, but polling disagrees with you.

Personally, I believe there is room to debate the merits of all of these proposals (Hell, even abortion).  The issue, at least in my opinion is most moderate Republicans (voters and representatives) would at least like to have the debate but the party leadership thinks just saying no is better politics.  It very well might be, but then what exactly does your party stand for?  
There was no republican health plan (well, there was Romneycare), There was no republican infrastructure plan. etc etc.  When the right had the wheel all they could pass was a tax cut.  There were no policies we could have a robust debate about, it was "hey free college for everyone sucks", but no clear plan.

Again, Dickies laid out some pretty important yet simple things we could talk about but there is no "moderate republican" to have those discussions with.
Ahhh...Polling...You must be new here.  Polling is never reliable.  Ever.  In my opinion.

 
I think today’s moderate Dems were moderate Rs not even a decade ago.  I’m not sure what a moderate R looks like anymore at a National level - closest I can find is Joe Manchin and he still has a D by his name. Everyone else shifted so hard to cater to Trump talking points. 

 
Mitt can't make it out of the Primary.

The one thing the D's have going for him is that ANY candidate that makes it out of the R Primary will have to kiss the ring of Trump.  That's an effective talking point.  
This will be the problem with any R - escaping the shadow of Trump.  

 
Off the top of my head:

  • Universal Healthcare
  • Legalize all drugs
  • Expansion of "free" higher education (university & vocational)
  • Education reform at the primary level
  • Higher taxes on corporations and high income earners.
  • Criminal justice reform (ban private prisons, ban capital punishment, shorter prison sentences)
  • Stricter federal gun control
This is left. Too left for me. I think legalizing all drugs is blind to the evils many contribute to society. I think that "free" higher education is problematic because the more federal money that goes into the system, the more bloated it becomes. While I agree with criminal justice reform, I am in favor of capital punishment and longer sentences for some crimes. 

I'd sign up in a minute for the above if the alternative was a ban on abortions, a ban on immigration and inaction on climate change.

 

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