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Are Dems starting to lose the Centrist Democrats?


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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I get that, but you have to admit that Biden really does seem to be past his expiration date in a way that's not really the case for people like Romney, Warren, and probably Sanders.  And I say that as somebody who gets up everyday happy that Biden won the primaries and general.  

Agreed. I wish Biden was able to run in 2016. Certainly would have voted for him over Hilary or Sanders in the Dem primary. I'm confident we'd be in his second term now.

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As an honest answer from someone who trends right of center, I am more likely to vote for a democrat than a republican for two reasons. 1) I dislike the positions of the far left (pull police fundi

What could demonstrate a dedication to family values more than having three families?  That is like triple my family values. 

As a self identified centrist, Yes. Both parties have lost me. I’m politically homeless and disgusted by both.  

2 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I liked McCain's willingness to be somewhat intellectually honest but had no interest in voting for him.  I didn't have a single lefty friend or family member express a desire to vote for him back then.   Your narrative doesn't match my recollection even remotely.

But you are probably right that a lot of people who vocally support Romney now would trash him and vote Dem if he runs in 2024.

Any chance of me voting for McCain flew out the door when he selected his running mate.

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52 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I get that, but you have to admit that Biden really does seem to be past his expiration date in a way that's not really the case for people like Romney, Warren, and probably Sanders.  And I say that as somebody who gets up everyday happy that Biden won the primaries and general.  

I agree with this.

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5 hours ago, E Street Brat said:

Exactly. Every lefty loved McCain until he ran. Then he was the devil himself,

 

 

McCain had my vote until he chose Palin.  That turned me massively off him, I'm quite sure it did many others too.

Edited by dkp993
should have read further as others said the same
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2 hours ago, bigmarc27 said:

Family values was a BS made-up term. Regardless, your post is borderline racist at best, and at worst...  you can decide. 

Huh?  Borderline racist?  WTH are you talking about?  Is data racist now?

Edited by BladeRunner
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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I get that, but you have to admit that Biden really does seem to be past his expiration date in a way that's not really the case for people like Romney, Warren, and probably Sanders.  And I say that as somebody who gets up everyday happy that Biden won the primaries and general.  

True

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4 hours ago, supermike80 said:

Hmmm..Well based on the % of single family homes in the black community(which we all know vote mostly democrat) I' not seeing a strong dedication to family values with that party either.

I don’t have the stats handy, but I’m not sure I buy your premise. While admittedly there are lots of single family homes in the black community, I also think that a fair number of families in that community reside in townhomes, condos and apartments. 

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22 hours ago, Gawain said:

As an honest answer from someone who trends right of center, I am more likely to vote for a democrat than a republican for two reasons.

1) I dislike the positions of the far left (pull police funding, reparations, free college) a lot less than the positions of the far right (god in school, isolationism). One side wants to give more without any way to pay for it. The other wants to take without any consideration of what's being taken.

 

This was my initial reaction to the OP.   I vote all over the map for local/state elections, but have been 3rd party for POTUS for awhile.  This year was the first year in awhile I got off my 3rd party trend for POTUS.   My take is the same - as it stands now, I agree with the bolded.   I will add that IMO I think the extreme of the right has seeped more into the general tone and ideas of the conservative party, where that is not the case yet for the left, and I don't see that trend stopping soon either.  

Edited by KarmaPolice
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44 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

This was my initial reaction to the OP.   I vote all over the map for local/state elections, but have been 3rd party for POTUS for awhile.  This year was the first year in awhile I got off my 3rd party trend for POTUS.   My take is the same - as it stands now, I agree with the bolded.   I will add that IMO I think the extreme of the right as seemed more into the general tone and ideas of the conservative party, where that is not the case yet for the left, and I don't see that trend stopping soon either.  

KP, what would you call out out as the extreme right ideas in the conservative party?  thx

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4 minutes ago, djmich said:

KP, what would you call out out as the extreme right ideas in the conservative party?  thx

Good question.   Maybe less of a specific policy and more of the mix of very religious we've always seen from the right + the trend of anti-news/anti-science/Q conspiracies, etc.   

So for me battles on the extreme are that boxing it out with the extreme PC/woke crowd, and some of the ideas that Gawain presented in his post.  

We just saw a POTUS election where we see the first group's extreme was well represented and engaging, but the other candidate wasn't running on the 2nd group's extreme positions.  

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Good question.   Maybe less of a specific policy and more of the mix of very religious we've always seen from the right + the trend of anti-news/anti-science/Q conspiracies, etc.   

So for me battles on the extreme are that boxing it out with the extreme PC/woke crowd, and some of the ideas that Gawain presented in his post.  

We just saw a POTUS election where we see the first group's extreme was well represented and engaging, but the other candidate wasn't running on the 2nd group's extreme positions.  

Thx...gotta go work, will think about this later

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17 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

I will happily consider the GOP alternatives. Show them to me.  Otherwise, the GOP is nothing more than obstructionists with no real reason for me to vote for them. 

I think Rick Scott should run.

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22 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I think Rick Scott should run.

Has he introduced any bills on healthcare, infrastructure...anything we can view?  Biden invited Republicans to produce their counter to his infrastructure, let's see if Sen. Scott steps up.

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19 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

I could easily vote for Larry Hogan if he was on the ballot. But we know that will not happen in 2024.

He's going to run, but he won't win the primary.  He's not been a terrible governor, even if I don't like some of his actions, policy positions, or disdain for the largest city in his state.

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:
19 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

I could easily vote for Larry Hogan if he was on the ballot. But we know that will not happen in 2024.

He's going to run, but he won't win the primary.  He's not been a terrible governor, even if I don't like some of his actions, policy positions, or disdain for the largest city in his state.

I may have gone overboard with "easily" but I like Hogan as a Republican. He seems very moderate. The biggest problem I have with him is that as president, he'd come with the rest of the GOP and he'd have to govern to please the GOP base (much like Biden is doing now).

But you're right he'll never win the primary because he hasn't kissed the Trump ring. I'm sure he's currently described as a RINO.

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22 hours ago, bigmarc27 said:

Family values was a BS made-up term. Regardless, your post is borderline racist at best, and at worst...  you can decide. 

The family unit is the smallest unit of “government” that makes up the fabric of our country.  The system set up was was patriarchal (amongst other issues highlighted by the social changes since the 1969s), but a predictable source of stability.  

As with all systems, there was intense resistance to change and concern for new social maladies that would supplant the maladies we were trying to fix.

it’s not a made up term, but instead it’s gets at the fabric of how the country functions. 

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38 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

The family unit is the smallest unit of “government” that makes up the fabric of our country.  The system set up was was patriarchal (amongst other issues highlighted by the social changes since the 1969s), but a predictable source of stability.  

As with all systems, there was intense resistance to change and concern for new social maladies that would supplant the maladies we were trying to fix.

it’s not a made up term, but instead it’s gets at the fabric of how the country functions. 

LOL

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On 4/21/2021 at 3:20 PM, Amused to Death said:

I will happily consider the GOP alternatives. Show them to me.  Otherwise, the GOP is nothing more than obstructionists with no real reason for me to vote for them. 

Republican response released.  Hmmm....I wonder what you'll think of it?

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17 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Republican response released.  Hmmm....I wonder what you'll think of it?

As an engineer working in the field, it falls way short of addressing the decades of  a compounding infrastructure deficit.  But at least it's something - they couldn't even do that for the last 4 years. 

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35 minutes ago, killface said:

As an engineer working in the field, it falls way short of addressing the decades of  a compounding infrastructure deficit.  But at least it's something - they couldn't even do that for the last 4 years. 

Hmm. Democrats are even calling it a good starting point. NBC News is reporting it calls for double the spending on roads and bridges

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12 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Hmm. Democrats are even calling it a good starting point. NBC News is reporting it calls for double the spending on roads and bridges

Manchin did yes. It would be nice if they actually worked together. But I would guess Dems say they'll pass more later, then Reps say nevermind then just do it without us.

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33 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Hmm. Democrats are even calling it a good starting point. NBC News is reporting it calls for double the spending on roads and bridges

It is a good starting point for sure because there was no starting point before.  

It's still brutally low given our national infrastructure deficit.  But at least they are playing the game.  Happy to see that at least some of them are trying to participate on an interest of national importance.

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Trump wanted Infrastructure, but the Ds acted in bad faith and I am sure the GOP privately told him no, probably holding the Russia hoax and Ukraine hoax over his head.  Impeachment was a check-mate against infrastructure....Bunch of #######s....at least we will probably get it now, even though corrupt politics delayed it...

 

 

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1 hour ago, killface said:

As an engineer working in the field, it falls way short of addressing the decades of  a compounding infrastructure deficit.  But at least it's something - they couldn't even do that for the last 4 years. 

Yeah, we expected you guys to say this regardless of whatever plan was released by the GOP.  :shrug:

And it doesn't matter if it addressed everything on your wish list - you would have still poo-poo'd it because - sides.

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54 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

Trump wanted Infrastructure, but the Ds acted in bad faith and I am sure the GOP privately told him no, probably holding the Russia hoax and Ukraine hoax over his head.  Impeachment was a check-mate against infrastructure....Bunch of #######s....at least we will probably get it now, even though corrupt politics delayed it...

 

 

Yikes, now I know why all the tin foil is sold out. 

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32 minutes ago, bigmarc27 said:

Yikes, now I know why all the tin foil is sold out. 

Yeah - 4+ years of Russian Hookers, Pee Tapes, Russian Collusion and OMG!! HITLER!!! will do that.  ;)

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1 hour ago, bigmarc27 said:

Yikes, now I know why all the tin foil is sold out. 

Indeed. He controlled the house and the senate.  

The things people come up with to make excuses for that guy

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15 hours ago, Sam Quentin said:

Trump wanted Infrastructure, but the Ds acted in bad faith and I am sure the GOP privately told him no, probably holding the Russia hoax and Ukraine hoax over his head.  Impeachment was a check-mate against infrastructure....Bunch of #######s....at least we will probably get it now, even though corrupt politics delayed it...

 

 

meh....could have made it a priority and done it when the GOP held the house, senate and presidency but that removes this excuse.  That said, the Dems will try this same maneuver if they fail at their bill...two sides....same coin.

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On 4/21/2021 at 12:15 PM, bigmarc27 said:

Can’t tell if you’re joking or not, but if the leader of your party spends his time banging porn stars while his 3rd wife is pregnant, you don’t get to play the family values card. 

alledgedly

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On 4/21/2021 at 11:28 AM, bigmarc27 said:

I think today’s moderate Dems were moderate Rs not even a decade ago.  I’m not sure what a moderate R looks like anymore at a National level - closest I can find is Joe Manchin and he still has a D by his name. Everyone else shifted so hard to cater to Trump talking points. 

Romney is moderate R

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On 4/21/2021 at 2:39 PM, dkp993 said:

McCain had my vote until he chose Palin.  That turned me massively off him, I'm quite sure it did many others too.

Hmmm, I assume Harris turned you massively off of Biden then?

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10 minutes ago, Gilroy34 said:

Hmmm, I assume Harris turned you massively off of Biden then?

Didn’t vote for Biden.  Im no fan at all but Harris is light years ahead of Palin.  

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5 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Didn’t vote for Biden.  Im no fan at all but Harris is light years ahead of Palin.  

Biden =Palin imo.  Both are clueless folks who can't give impromptu responses without gaffes and need to rely on others.

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16 minutes ago, Gilroy34 said:

Biden =Palin imo.  Both are clueless folks who can't give impromptu responses without gaffes and need to rely on others.

Massively disagree.  Massively.  And again I didn’t vote for him, that’s how low my opinion of Palin is 

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16 minutes ago, Gilroy34 said:

Biden =Palin imo.  Both are clueless folks who can't give impromptu responses without gaffes and need to rely on others.

Really?  Biden has been a member fo a Congress for 40 years and been VP.  Palin quit her Governorship halfway through her term to do a failed reality Tv show.  

The fact that you equate the two probably explains a lot about why America is so divided right now.  

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11 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

Really?  Biden has been a member fo a Congress for 40 years and been VP.  Palin quit her Governorship halfway through her term to do a failed reality Tv show.  

The fact that you equate the two probably explains a lot about why America is so divided right now.  

There is a difference between Biden 10-20 years ago and Biden now.  If you don't see that you have blinders on.

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2 hours ago, Gilroy34 said:
On 4/21/2021 at 12:15 PM, bigmarc27 said:

Can’t tell if you’re joking or not, but if the leader of your party spends his time banging porn stars while his 3rd wife is pregnant, you don’t get to play the family values card. 

alledgedly

Oh look, it's Noonan.

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3 hours ago, Gilroy34 said:

Biden =Palin imo.  Both are clueless folks who can't give impromptu responses without gaffes and need to rely on others.

No...not even close to the same.

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4 hours ago, Gilroy34 said:

There is a difference between Biden 10-20 years ago and Biden now.  If you don't see that you have blinders on.

How’s that hopey changey stuff workin’ out for ya?

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8 hours ago, Gilroy34 said:

There is a difference between Biden 10-20 years ago and Biden now.  If you don't see that you have blinders on.

I pretty sure that is obvious to everyone. We go from Trump to Biden. One bozo to another. Bizarre times we are in for sure.  

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I'd wager that both parties are starting to lose their centrist elements. Everything is about polarization and the "us against them" mentality now to the point that it seems there's no meeting in the middle. The pendulum will eventually swing back, as it always does, but it's really irritating at the moment. 

Edited by Marauders
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 I can only speak for myself but as a centrist democrat in the past ( who has voted for as many republicans for president as democrats) Im not happy with some of the policys proposed by the far left but until such time as the republicans stand for SOMETHING Im more entrenched on the left as I have ever been in the past.  When the republican partys platform is " we are for anything donald trump wants us to be for" and at time seem to be we are against anything the democrats   I cant see myself voing for a republican any time soon.  It seriously saddened me to vote straight democraic party but untill such time that the republican moderates  get control of their party back I highly doubt I will be voting republican.  

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7 hours ago, da_budman said:

 I can only speak for myself but as a centrist democrat in the past ( who has voted for as many republicans for president as democrats) Im not happy with some of the policys proposed by the far left but until such time as the republicans stand for SOMETHING Im more entrenched on the left as I have ever been in the past.  When the republican partys platform is " we are for anything donald trump wants us to be for" and at time seem to be we are against anything the democrats   I cant see myself voing for a republican any time soon.  It seriously saddened me to vote straight democraic party but untill such time that the republican moderates  get control of their party back I highly doubt I will be voting republican.  

Sorry, but I'm just not seeing this.  I think this is simply an excuse, IMO.

Donald Trump is gone.  He ain't coming back.  He holds almost no power.  But I get that the Democrats want you to THINK that so they can scare you into voting for them.  They NEED to keep DJT front and center for people like you.  If that's how you feel, that's fine.  But DJT was a one time blip.

The left has far more extremists in Congress on their side then the Conservatives do.  FFS, they LITERALLY elected Socialists/Marxists to their side.  And that contingent gets bigger every year.  But you're worried about Trump?  Really?  Have you looked back at the 20th century to see what Socialism/Marxism has done to countries?  But Trump is the issue?

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7 hours ago, da_budman said:

 I can only speak for myself but as a centrist democrat in the past ( who has voted for as many republicans for president as democrats) Im not happy with some of the policys proposed by the far left

The far left and the far right always existed and they always proposed policies that aligned wiith their worldview. Joe Biden is as centrist as it comes though and he hasn't really taken up the throne on any of these far left policy proposals, has he?

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3 minutes ago, the moops said:

The far left and the far right always existed and they always proposed policies that aligned wiith their worldview. Joe Biden is as centrist as it comes though and he hasn't really taken up the throne on any of these far left policy proposals, has he?

Well except for the beautiful eulogy for Robert Byrd.  Oh, and the 1994 crime law which went after black people.  Oh, and disregarding the border crisis and letting everyone in.  And trying to pack the Supreme Court.

But, yeah, as centrist as they come.

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Just now, BladeRunner said:

Well except for the beautiful eulogy for Robert Byrd.  Oh, and the 1994 crime law which went after black people.

But, yeah, as centrist as they come.

:shrug:

He is more centrist than Sanders, Warren, etc on the left and Cruz, Trump, etc on the right. So yea, centrist

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3 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

Donald Trump is gone.  He ain't coming back.  He holds almost no power. 

The amount you are discounting DJT’s power and influence in today’s GOP is scary. It’s either wish-casting or partisan blinders. I hope it’s the former but I suspect the latter.  Trump is still absolutely the party leader and key influencer.  

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