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The price of embracing right wing media (1 Viewer)

timschochet

timschochet

Footballguy
For years now I have warned my conservative friends, both in this forum and elsewhere, not to reject the mainstream media: If you find errors, fine, point them out. If you find bias at times, fine, point it out. But do NOT replace the MSM with right wing talk and right wing journals. It’s dangerous to reject reality, and there would, I predicted, be a huge price to pay. Now we are paying it: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/04/05/more-than-half-of-republicans-believe-voter-fraud-claims-and-most-still-support-trump-poll-finds/amp/

A majority of Republicans believe Biden stole the election against all evidence. 

 
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And of course, voter fraud is not the only area where the rejection of MSM is causing huge problems. There is also the sad fact that a large chunk of Trump voters reject the facts about COVID, have refused for months to wear masks, and now refuse to take the vaccine. Even more problematic in the long run, a significant percentage of conservatives reject the science behind climate change. Are they entitled to that opinion? Of course. But if millions are skeptical it prevents us from taking any political action to fight it. 
 

The poison of rejecting the mainstream media is all around us. It’s not negligible. We are, and will continue to pay a real time price for this refusal to accept reality. 

 
timschochet said:
For years now I have warned my conservative friends, both in this forum and elsewhere, not to reject the mainstream media: If you find errors, fine, point them out. If you find bias at times, fine, point it out. But do NOT replace the MSM with right wing talk and right wing journals. It’s dangerous to reject reality, and there would, I predicted, be a huge price to pay. Now we are paying it: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/04/05/more-than-half-of-republicans-believe-voter-fraud-claims-and-most-still-support-trump-poll-finds/amp/

A majority of Republicans believe Biden stole the election against all evidence. 
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Man are you loose with words. The polling question read as follows:

7.1. [The 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump] To what extent do you agree or disagree with the following statements?

The difference in wording is important there. The majority of Republicans I have talked to that believe the election was unfair cite the change in voting rules that were pushed through in some states like PA. That’s a legitimate beef.  Your own poll shows that 13% of Democrats believe the election was stolen from Trump, and 24% of Independents.

 
ekbeats said:
Man are you loose with words. The polling question read as follows:

7.1. [The 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump] To what extent do you agree or disagree with the following statements?

The difference in wording is important there. The majority of Republicans I have talked to that believe the election was unfair cite the change in voting rules that were pushed through in some states like PA. That’s a legitimate beef.  Your own poll shows that 13% of Democrats believe the election was stolen from Trump, and 24% of Independents.
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I think you’re skirting the main point here. I’m sure you’re right that a certain percentage of these folks are reasonable people who believe they have a legitimate complaint. But we both know that there are millions of folks, mostly Trump supporters, mostly conservative, who believe that the election was outright stolen from Trump by fraud, and that they believe this because they heard it from sources other than the mainstream media and they don’t believe the mainstream media telling them otherwise. That’s a real, immediate problem (it already caused an insurrection) and it’s the price we pay for decades of conservatives telling everyone not to believe the MSM. 

 
timschochet said:
I think you’re skirting the main point here. I’m sure you’re right that a certain percentage of these folks are reasonable people who believe they have a legitimate complaint. But we both know that there are millions of folks, mostly Trump supporters, mostly conservative, who believe that the election was outright stolen from Trump by fraud, and that they believe this because they heard it from sources other than the mainstream media and they don’t believe the mainstream media telling them otherwise. That’s a real, immediate problem (it already caused an insurrection) and it’s the price we pay for decades of conservatives telling everyone not to believe the MSM. 
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maybe you've detailed this in other threads, but for curiosity's sake: could you specify which channels, or programs, you consider to be "MSM"? (and i'm assuming we're talking about TV/Cable vs terrestrial/satellite radio.)

 
Quint said:
maybe you've detailed this in other threads, but for curiosity's sake: could you specify which channels, or programs, you consider to be "MSM"? (and i'm assuming we're talking about TV/Cable vs terrestrial/satellite radio.)
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Sure. 
 

Off the top of my head: 

CNN

MSNBC

Fox News 

(for the 3 above, I refer to the news reporting, NOT to the opinion shows) 

Washington Post 

New York Times 

Thats a good start. There are, of course, plenty of others. 

 
timschochet said:
What am I declaring here as fact  that you don’t think is true? 
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That there's a price to rejecting the mainstream media. Maybe we have differing definitions of "reject." I still turn to the mainstream media for basic facts, though I do that less and less given the coverage of the Georgia voting law and the recent Columbus shooting. I've totally given up.

I'll only allow AP, Reuters, or any other factual dispatch into my world now. Long gone are the days of assuming any fact printed in the mainstream media. There better be another source verifying. If there is video of the incident, I want to see it firsthand. I also want to scour right-wing media as a counterbalance to that. Longform, AP and Reuters, and dispatches, generally from the WaPo. I haven't even scanned the New York Times in two years. That corporate entity should be embarrassed to call itself a news outlet. They're doing damage to the entire enterprise of journalism. To me, they're about at Fox News level. I've also done a decent job getting multiple points of view in my Twitter feed through whom I can get a quick an accurate take of the news.

That's it. That's all they've earned my trust for.

 
Rejected

...not going to argue with you.
The MSM is one of the prophets of your church.

Far be it from me to talk bad about someone's religion.

 
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Anyway, I'm not getting hung up in this thread. This sounds like another one of your harangues about media bias and the MSM. We do this to death every day. I've written extensively on these boards about the danger of only watching the right-wing news outlets. They're utterly preposterous. It's fact-free stuff in right-wing land. But the MSM is barely better. When an event's facts counters their accepted narrative, they shove the story into the narrative like a square peg in a round hole. Or they omit facts.

It's at crucial levels. You should ask "What is the price of the mainstream media's need to put things into leftist narratives?" Because it's a high price to pay, IMO.

 
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rockaction said:
Anyway, I'm not getting hung up in this thread. This sounds like another one of your harangues about media bias and the MSM. We do this to death every day. I've written extensively on these boards about the danger of only watching the right-wing news outlets. They're utterly preposterous. It's fact-free stuff in right-wing land. But the MSM is barely better. When an event's facts counters their accepted narrative, they shove the story into the narrative like a square peg in a round hole. Or they omit facts.

It's at crucial levels. You should ask "What is the price of the mainstream media's need to put things into leftist narratives?" Because it's a high price to pay, IMO.
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No this is a separate question. We’ve already been down the road of “do you trust the MSM?” If you don’t, that’s on you. This about the cost of not doing so. 
Your statement that you accept AP and Reuters is fine with me. Obviously you’re not who I’m referring to. If the majority of conservatives accepted only the news from AP or Reuters I’d be quite satisfied and I don’t think we would be in the problems were in. 
 

 
Rejecting the mainstream media in favor of right-wing news outlets is a bad tradeoff.

Rejecting the mainstream media in favor of a carefully curated SM circle is a great tradeoff.  (Technically, this approach requires that you put up with the mainstream media as the best of a bunch of bad options for tracking down basic facts about the world, but everything you get from there needs to be approached with skepticism).

 
rockaction said:
You should ask "What is the price of the mainstream media's need to put things into leftist narratives?" Because it's a high price to pay, IMO.
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With regard to this question: since I don’t agree with your take, obviously I don’t think there is ANY price to pay. But- in the first two posts I offered 3 real time examples of the price of rejecting the MSM: believing Trump won the election, rejection of COVID solutions, rejection of climate change. These aren’t theoretical; they’re actually happening. If you have real time examples to prove your point above please provide them. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Rejecting the mainstream media in favor of right-wing news outlets is a bad tradeoff.

Rejecting the mainstream media in favor of a carefully curated SM circle is a great tradeoff.  (Technically, this approach requires that you put up with the mainstream media as the best of a bunch of bad options for tracking down basic facts about the world, but everything you get from there needs to be approached with skepticism).
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SM? I don't know what that means.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Rejecting the mainstream media in favor of right-wing news outlets is a bad tradeoff.

Rejecting the mainstream media in favor of a carefully curated SM circle is a great tradeoff.  (Technically, this approach requires that you put up with the mainstream media as the best of a bunch of bad options for tracking down basic facts about the world, but everything you get from there needs to be approached with skepticism).
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Again, I have no problem with this approach, or that of rockaction. But that’s not what’s happening. 

 
timschochet said:
With regard to this question: since I don’t agree with your take, obviously I don’t think there is ANY price to pay. But- in the first two posts I offered 3 real time examples of the price of rejecting the MSM: believing Trump won the election, rejection of COVID solutions, rejection of climate change. These aren’t theoretical; they’re actually happening. If you have real time examples to prove your point above please provide them. 
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Thinking that the Georgia law was akin to Jim Crow, denying black people necessary polling stations previously available, resulting in the MLB pulling the all-star game.

Believing that the Columbus shooting was unjustified, resulting in national protests.

Again, two erroneous notions off the top of my head with a real price.

 
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1. “I have real problems with CNN and the New York Times, I think they promote a leftist agenda, so I only get my news from Reuters”

I don’t agree with the premise here but it’s a legitimate, fair argument and anyone who believes this poses no problem to society. 
 

2. “I have real problems with CNN and the New York Times, I think they promote a leftist agenda, so I only get my news from the Hannity Show.”

This attitude is my concern. If millions of people believe this (and polling suggest they do) it’s a serious threat to our society, perhaps the biggest threat we face. 

 
rockaction said:
I have to tell you, tim. I don't think people care if you have a problem with their approach.
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All I can do is express my opinion. If nobody cares this thread will die quickly. If they choose to argue with me then they care at least to some degree. 

 
timschochet said:
1. “I have real problems with CNN and the New York Times, I think they promote a leftist agenda, so I only get my news from Reuters”

I don’t agree with the premise here but it’s a legitimate, fair argument and anyone who believes this poses no problem to society. 
 

2. “I have real problems with CNN and the New York Times, I think they promote a leftist agenda, so I only get my news from the Hannity Show.”

This attitude is my concern. If millions of people believe this (and polling suggest they do) it’s a serious threat to our society, perhaps the biggest threat we face. 
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What if I get my news from DW, ABC Australia, BBC, Reuters, CBC, and Monde 24?  Why would anyone get news from biased US sites?

 
rockaction said:
Thinking that the Georgia law was akin to Jim Crow, denying black people necessary polling stations previously available, resulting in the MLB pulling the all-star game.

Believing that the Columbus shooting was unjustified, resulting in national protests.

Again, two erroneous notions off the top of my head with a real price.
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Well obviously we differ on all this. In any case I don’t think it’s in any way comparable.

But even if it was, the price of rejecting the MSM is, IMO, far greater. 

 
FairWarning said:
What if I get my news from DW, ABC Australia, BBC, Reuters, CBC, and Monde 24?  Why would anyone get news from biased US sites?
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That’s fine too. 
Again, I am specifically concerned with those who are relying on stuff like Hannity, Breitbart, Daily Caller, etc. Millions of conservatives don’t believe the election was stolen because of something they heard on the BBC. 

 
timschochet said:
That’s fine too. 
Again, I am specifically concerned with those who are relying on stuff like Hannity, Breitbart, Daily Caller, etc. Millions of conservatives don’t believe the election was stolen because of something they heard on the BBC. 
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Trust me, there are far too many getting "news" from "opinion" shows - thats the problem.  It doesn't matter if you're Team Red of Team Blue.  Our news thrives on this.  

 
timschochet said:
For years now I have warned my conservative friends, both in this forum and elsewhere, not to reject the mainstream media: If you find errors, fine, point them out. If you find bias at times, fine, point it out. But do NOT replace the MSM with right wing talk and right wing journals. It’s dangerous to reject reality, and there would, I predicted, be a huge price to pay. Now we are paying it: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/04/05/more-than-half-of-republicans-believe-voter-fraud-claims-and-most-still-support-trump-poll-finds/amp/

A majority of Republicans believe Biden stole the election against all evidence. 
Click to expand...
Title is incomplete (shocker)...plenty fine to completely reject the US MSM....it's almost worthless.  That's not to say there aren't worse sources out there (both liberal and conservative) that you should use instead.  Reject it.....then begin taking a look at this country through the eyes of an observer.  

 
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FairWarning said:
Anyone getting news from opinion TV like Hannity and Maddow, thats on them.  
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My point of this thread is: it’s on us too. We can’t function well as a society when that is the case. 
Not so much Maddow. That’s a liberal talk show and nobody should be relying on the news from that source. But the folks who watch that show don’t generally reject other news sources and she’s not exhorting them to do so. What makes guys like Hannity and Carlson different from Maddow is not their politics but that they spend so much of their time telling their followers not to believe the news. Just like Limbaugh did, just like Trump did. It’s scary. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Social media.

For example, the covid-19 thread in the FFA has consistently outperformed the MSM in getting basic facts and analysis right.  It hasn't been perfect, of course, but it's been lightyears better than any traditional news source.
Click to expand...
Separate issue but I strongly disagree with this take. 

 
FairWarning said:
What if I get my news from DW, ABC Australia, BBC, Reuters, CBC, and Monde 24?  Why would anyone get news from biased US sites?
Click to expand...
This is a wonderful question, but just take a brief perusal of damn near any thread here and there are people absolutely obsessed with our ####ty media pissing and moaning about it 24x7 all the while willfully consuming it like a crackhead on payday.  

 
timschochet said:
And of course, voter fraud is not the only area where the rejection of MSM is causing huge problems. There is also the sad fact that a large chunk of Trump voters reject the facts about COVID, have refused for months to wear masks, and now refuse to take the vaccine. Even more problematic in the long run, a significant percentage of conservatives reject the science behind climate change. Are they entitled to that opinion? Of course. But if millions are skeptical it prevents us from taking any political action to fight it. 
 

The poison of rejecting the mainstream media is all around us. It’s not negligible. We are, and will continue to pay a real time price for this refusal to accept reality. 
Click to expand...
The danger is blindly accepting propaganda.  I am becoming more and more convinced the tech giants control of the distribution of information is the biggest threat to losing our freedom of speech that we have ever faced.  And this idea that we must accept what the media tells us is utter nonsense straight out of the mouths of the likes of Joseph Goebbels.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Social media.

For example, the covid-19 thread in the FFA has consistently outperformed the MSM in getting basic facts and analysis right.  It hasn't been perfect, of course, but it's been lightyears better than any traditional news source.
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying. I've found the COVID thread consistently outpacing and more accurate than the MSM. By far. I'm amazed by that. People pretty much ask me for updates on it from the board. "What's your board say?"

I feel like my Twitter feed serves the same function for news, as does the PSF here. I find myself turning here a lot for news and accurate dissections of it. That's why nobody here is on ignore for me, and my Twitter comes from both sides, really. Though subtly on both sides on Twitter. Even then, and in the case of not ignoring people, I find that those who can be obnoxious and off-putting have at least talking points to burn, so I wind up knowing what the talking points of the day are.

 
timschochet said:
I think you’re skirting the main point here. I’m sure you’re right that a certain percentage of these folks are reasonable people who believe they have a legitimate complaint. But we both know that there are millions of folks, mostly Trump supporters, mostly conservative, who believe that the election was outright stolen from Trump by fraud, and that they believe this because they heard it from sources other than the mainstream media and they don’t believe the mainstream media telling them otherwise. That’s a real, immediate problem (it already caused an insurrection) and it’s the price we pay for decades of conservatives telling everyone not to believe the MSM. 
Click to expand...
Yes, and there were millions of Democrats in 2016 that thought the election was stolen from Hillary. And millions more who think the 2000 election was stolen from Al Gore.

 
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The Commish said:
This is a wonderful question, but just take a brief perusal of damn near any thread here and there are people absolutely obsessed with our ####ty media pissing and moaning about it 24x7 all the while willfully consuming it like a crackhead on payday.  
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More utter nonsense as I know you accuse me of this.  I haven't consumed any mainstream media since January 6th.  My exposure to it is mostly in this forum.  My obsession with it is only because how horrible it at misleading people and drumming up the race war..  it is nothing but a cancer to our society. 

 
timschochet said:
My point of this thread is: it’s on us too. We can’t function well as a society when that is the case. 
Not so much Maddow. That’s a liberal talk show and nobody should be relying on the news from that source. But the folks who watch that show don’t generally reject other news sources and she’s not exhorting them to do so. What makes guys like Hannity and Carlson different from Maddow is not their politics but that they spend so much of their time telling their followers not to believe the news. Just like Limbaugh did, just like Trump did. It’s scary. 
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Trust me, Maddow is no different.  

 
FairWarning said:
Trust me, there are far too many getting "news" from "opinion" shows - thats the problem.  It doesn't matter if you're Team Red of Team Blue.  Our news thrives on this.  
Click to expand...
Don't' forget comedy shows the Daily Show, Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, Bill Maher and the late night talk shows.  They twist/omit so many facts and swing from the DNC nutsack but the left still gloms on to them as if they are news shows.

 
The Commish said:
burn?  :rolleyes:  

That thread is a beacon of truth compared to the crap a lot of people here are exposed to.
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Allow me to express my objection to Ivan’s assertion. Yes there is very good information there if you are a discerning reader. Yes sometimes the information is more complete than you’ll get in the mainstream media, and sometimes it even contradicts the mainstream media (though not all that often.) All this is to the good. 
But it’s surrounded by an incredible amount of ignorance, science skepticism, and politicizing which makes the thread unreadable at times. So no, it’s not superior to the MSM. It’s far far worse IMO. 

 
BladeRunner said:
Don't' forget comedy shows the Daily Show, Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, Bill Maher and the late night talk shows.  They twist/omit so many facts and swing from the DNC nutsack but the left still gloms on to them as if they are news shows.
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Or shows like The View.

Now Bill Maher is almost drifting center these days on some issues, doesn't mean I will form opinions from him.   

 
The Commish said:
This is a wonderful question, but just take a brief perusal of damn near any thread here and there are people absolutely obsessed with our ####ty media pissing and moaning about it 24x7 all the while willfully consuming it like a crackhead on payday.  
Click to expand...
I'm lucky I have IPTV.  Most others are offered McDonalds or BK for options, so that is what they know.

 
ekbeats said:
Yes, and there were millions of Democrats in 2016 that thought the election was stolen from Hillary. And millions more who think the 2000 election was stolen from Al Gore.
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Not in the same way. There are very significant differences in both cases. 
A far better analogy, and just as disturbing as the OP, is that after 9/11 about a third of Democrats believed that Bush had something to do with it. Now imagine how many Democrats would have believed that if they had been trained not to believe the mainstream media. 

 
FairWarning said:
Just because she said that doesn't make her any different.  She is paid for her opinions, just like Lemon and Hannity.  She's not supposed to be David Brinkley.
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Agreed, but the focus of this thread is the decision by millions of conservatives to reject the mainstream media. That’s the crisis I’m referring to. 

 
I can honestly say I've never seen anyone fight so hard FOR the MSM.  If we didn't know any better, one would think Tim literally works for the NYTimes, WaPo or CNN.

If the MSM were to actually start producing real truth and facts (and just the facts, ma'am), my guess is the Liberals would be up in arms and outraged and they would then be calling the MSM "Fake News".  That's how different it would be.  The left has had cover and protection and "their truth" for so long, I don't think they realize what real news is anymore.  To them, the current MSM IS real news.  It ain't.

 
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