Ilov80s
Footballguy
No star power. Who was the biggest stars in the Best Picture nominees? Frances McDormand? Daniel Kaluuya, 83 year old Anthony Hopkins?
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***Official Academy Awards Discussion Thread*** - “Hollywood’s Biggest Night” (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Don Quixote
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
An honest response: Believe it or not, while I'm more than down to discuss politics on a message board, I'm usually not one to let his political views bleed into his artistic appreciation or social life at all. I'm sitting next to a record bin that has "The Buzzcocks" emblazoned on the cover of one LP and an LP where the lead track is about two fugitives from the law about to shoot an on-duty police officer because he killed a black child, according to the story.
But I've about had it with the institution that is Hollywood, both politically and spiritually. Not to mention morally. And not to mention how gobsmackingly stupid the plots are now in most movies. And that they aren't edifying nor escapist in the least. I never watch movies anymore, and they've lost an easy ticket sale. This has been going on for a few years. I don't need a lecture from Brie Larson every time I watch a movie, the stars in the movies aren't appealing, and it's just a place and frame of mind that's anathema to almost everything I appreciate and believe in when it comes to art.
I think there's definitely cause for reflection there. They're really losing people for these reasons.
But I've about had it with the institution that is Hollywood, both politically and spiritually. Not to mention morally. And not to mention how gobsmackingly stupid the plots are now in most movies. And that they aren't edifying nor escapist in the least. I never watch movies anymore, and they've lost an easy ticket sale. This has been going on for a few years. I don't need a lecture from Brie Larson every time I watch a movie, the stars in the movies aren't appealing, and it's just a place and frame of mind that's anathema to almost everything I appreciate and believe in when it comes to art.
I think there's definitely cause for reflection there. They're really losing people for these reasons.
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Donning of a New Age
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Totally agreed. I don't watch as many films now, largely because TV is better and there is a lot of good TV out there, and I still listen to music more than I watch TV in my spare time, but your points are very good ones. I don't think many award winners over the years lecturing the public or giving their latest political rant helped either. They are too full of themselves to realize it, but Hollywood can only blame themselves for this.
Maybe not, but the Grammys were a few months ago and also saw a huge drop in viewership.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is very true, and a good point, but for me it was when the lectures started winding up as plot devices or, indeed, the whole of the plot, that I tuned out. It was really when it started coming to the fore within the art that I took notice and dropped the entertainment, as it were.
The attendant press and awards are just the icing on that cake. The aforementioned Brie Larson saying she didn't care to do interviews with cisgendered men because she didn't care about what a bunch of cisgendered men think was probably the height of that sort of nonsense to me. She can die in a metaphorical celebrity fire for all I care. I'm not tuning in to one of her movies because I know that the star power dictates the content of films a lot of times, so I'll take a hard pass on her lectures, thanks.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I don't let stuff like that prevent me from watching the film themselves, but I have never been much of an awards shows guy. I might check out a bit here and there, but they are never something I go out of my to watch. But I don't think it can be underestimated how many potential viewers (ones who normally WOULD go out of their way to watch) they lost by injecting political talk into too many speeches.
rockaction
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I realize that it can be difficult to separate the art from the artist, but I can usually do it. I know many cannot watch films by Kevin Spacey or Mel Gibson anymore, and I totally get it, but I can still watch any of their old films and enjoy them just as much. And when it comes to music, if I had to start ditching music by artists who did stuff of which I do not approve, I would lose a lot of great music, and I just cannot do it.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, I get that. I find that in Hollywood that the artists' political proclivities are indicative of what sort of *serious* films they star in, and I'm likely not going to invest time on that at this point in my life. I'd rather read a good book about it, thanks.
Music is another beast entirely for me. I'll still invest time in that even if I'm in disagreement about politics manifest in the art or the proclivities of the artist away from the stage. But I like music more than acting put to celluloid, a medium I suppose I can take or leave.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I was thinking even past politics, though. Guys like Jimmy Page and Bowie were infamous for having had sexual relationships with underage teenage girls in the 70's (when they were in their 20's), which is obviously very creepy if not criminal, but it doesn't taint my enjoyment when listening to the music of Bowie or Zeppelin.
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh yeah, so was I. That's why I said "proclivities away from the stage." That encompassed exactly what you're talking about, and I feel the same way you do for the most part. Murder and rape are different animals, though, and I'd no more search out and listen to a Mystikal record than I would volunteer for a Hollywood political movie fest. I'd rather watch Silkwood a million times again. Which, come to think of it, was actually a good movie. So maybe it's not necessarily the politics, maybe it's the blunt force execution my Spidey senses despise.
Nah, it's the politics.
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Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
It's not just the libral thing, either. Clint Eastwood and Heston don't evoke the warm fuzzies. Ben Hur is my favorite movie. It's like he never read the script. And what's with the complaints over Chadwick Boseman not winning? Is supposed to win just because he died. I loved his performance, but it's not as if Hopkins sucks.
Did Brie Larson really say that? What an idiot.
Did Brie Larson really say that? What an idiot.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I would just say
1. This argument has been made every year for decades. Movies and the Oscars have always had political elements to them.
2. Movies have never been more escapist than in recent memory (not this year because all of this big movies got held over since theaters were closed). All of the top grossing movies are super heroes, reboots, Star Wars or kids animated movies.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
It started out as a vague feeling for me last summer/fall and has gotten to be pretty specific now - I have fallen out of love with movies. The sanctimony finally got to me.
I have sold almost all of my Blu Rays and 4k movies - including my Star Wars - and I don't really feel bad about it.
I have sold almost all of my Blu Rays and 4k movies - including my Star Wars - and I don't really feel bad about it.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, and I always said that about your first complaint, too. I'm just relaying why my dollar is gone.
As far as escapism goes, I hate the MCU and super hero movies. And they've gotten political, too. The last one I saw, which had Spider Man and the Avengers, we had a teen lead character that wouldn't visit the Washington Monument on a school trip because Washington was a slave owner. Her absence became a plot device. Again, the politics wound up in the plot. Same actress in a magazine a few weeks earlier talking about social justice and the like. Clearly, she'd either read the script and was good with it, or she was driving the plot. I should have known.
My quip was a personal taste thing. And I honestly think you're not seeing it because you're very, very liberal and accepting of that sort of stuff within the plot. I'm not, and I see crap like that in every movie. That's my honest two cents.
Bracie, on the other hand, could be among those who sees angels and demons manifest on earth and thinks Myles Garrett is a great guy, but we've been over that before and there's no need for him to "pray" for my "mental health" again. That's what a rube does.
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identikit
Footballguy
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whoknew
Footballguy
otb_lifer
Footballguy
interesting sidelight here is that the actress in question, Zendaya Coleman, faced a ton of social media backlash when cast as the lead in an Aaliyah biopic ... apparently Ms. Coleman wasn't "black enough" to represent (her mother is white, of Dutch ancestry).
she dropped out, citing other reasons as impetus for the decision, but she was ripped a new one before capitulating.
perhaps she doubles down now just a bit harder to prove her "street cred"
ridiculous all around.
rockaction
Footballguy
I liked this, but this is sort of sad. Sorry, Andy. I feel similarly. Maybe not perfectly similar, but at heart the same. Boxes and boxes of movies just left unwatched. So much cultural capital and discussions to have with other people just not had. It's not worth it. This is the first time I've really become that guy and voiced it about movies (not necessarily the heavier concept of "film," which winds up out of the megaplexes and theaters, but movies as public-going affairs) we're supposed to consume as entertainment. It now wants us to consume an unpalatable worldview, as far as I'm concerned.
No, and I certainly remember the element of the political in older movies. I especially remember the spiritual element, too. But something has changed. It's hard to identify, but it's both content and tone and how it immerses itself within the art now, or how it doesn't immerse itself within the art. The past bunch of movies I've seen have all had headlines ripped from the front page and we've basically been subject to an op-ed on them in five words or less, often like I said, involving a plot device. It's supposedly slickly done for your average viewer, but it's omnipresent to me. And I'd rather not, thanks.
whoknew
Footballguy
At the risk of seeming like I know better, I suspect some people don't like movies anymore for reasons beyond they are "too political." Art has always been political. Good art always has something to say.
But we are not in a glorious time for movies. We are in the golden age of tv. The only movies getting made anymore are small, independent things and Superhero ones. Everything else goes to tv.
So I reckon the drift from movies has more to do with that than this alleged new political awakening.
ETA: I also think we've changed more than movies have. We see everything in red and blue political terms. So as we have gotten more political, we notice political messages everywhere.
But we are not in a glorious time for movies. We are in the golden age of tv. The only movies getting made anymore are small, independent things and Superhero ones. Everything else goes to tv.
So I reckon the drift from movies has more to do with that than this alleged new political awakening.
ETA: I also think we've changed more than movies have. We see everything in red and blue political terms. So as we have gotten more political, we notice political messages everywhere.
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rockaction
Footballguy
I do indeed remember, I just didn't want to get case-specific.interesting sidelight here is that the actress in question, Zendaya Coleman, faced a ton of social media backlash when cast as the lead in an Aaliyah biopic ... apparently Ms. Coleman wasn't "black enough" to represent (her mother is white, of Dutch ancestry).
she dropped out, citing other reasons as impetus for the decision, but she was ripped a new one before capitulating.
perhaps she doubles down now just a bit harder to prove her "street cred"
ridiculous all around.
And that's par for the course. They're gonna eat their own by their own standards. Goodbye, little princess. Fare thee well.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, there's a point to be had there, but in this case, you might not know better. Indeed, why risk it?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Yeah, kind of. The wokiness of the sequel trilogies and just everything surrounding the Star Wars universe has sucked the fun and, more specifically, the innocence out of it. In short, Disney has exhausted me with their Star Wars hammer.
I blame Kathleen Kennedy, Mark Hamill, and Rian Johnson.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
You're not wrong here. But too many movies have a double dose of bad - they're political AND they're not entertaining or even interesting. The politics is the final nail.
Plus, when you know the money you spend is going to go to actors and an industry that are/is obviously diametrically opposed - because they say out loud that they are at every opportunity - to what you believe in...you think twice about giving them that money.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I know everything centers about the opinions of middle aged white males, but who is the typical Academy Awards viewer?
Among the multiple reasons this was a down year, political correctness is probably pretty low on the list, IMO.
rockaction
Footballguy
So woke. No wonder it's like three in the morning where you are and you're not asleep. You can't even make a general statement without inserting identity politics and its assumptions directly into your answer.
Fish, meet barrel. Your average Hollywood moviegoer just showed up for his op-ed training.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I still think a big portion of this is the viewer. politics and wokeness never entered my mind watching the newest SW movies.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
What I've learned about you is that your mental state while watching movies is typically...altered. How much is entering at all?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
meh. we are at a time where there is a crapload of options, but are those options really that great?
JMO, but even the mighty HBO's output is 50/50 at best. I haven't found more than a couple shows in the last few years I think were truly great.
rockaction
Footballguy
In return, brohan. I hope you stop seeing angels and demons in your world. That would frighten and awe me beyond comment, I think, but I am of course not everybody.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
that plus I am not on SM so I have 0 clue or care what actors and directors politics are.What I've learned about you is that your mental state while watching movies is typically...altered. How much is entering at all?
ETA- also, the weed wasn't until this past year, and I watched SW before that.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
It’s four in the morning. And I’m awake, not woke. But I appreciate you refraining from your typical rambling stream of consciousness to score a quick zinger.
Seriously though, who usually watches the Oscars? Fantasy football aficionados?
FTR, I’ve never enjoyed award shows, but I think the general public prefers superhero/action garbage and Netflix over anything thought provoking, political or not.
rockaction
Footballguy
Mmmm...not enough salt with those nuts.
Managing to be credulous enough to ape identity politics' concerns in one breath yet condemning the general public in the next is pretty salty, but not salty enough for hubris, I'd say.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I wasn’t aping anything, just commenting on the misplaced anti-woke hostility. I believe you’ll find the nuts you crave in the politics forum.
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
The large majority of people are turned off by the messages being shoved down our throats. People are starting to wise up to the propganda and lies.
Example, youtube shoves Trevor Noah, John Stewart, and Seth Meyers down our throats, but go look at their comment sections. Nobody is commenting dispite having millions of "views". These are autoplays. Nobody watches Trevor Noah. Hes an idiot. Seth Meyers has never been funny.
Youtube has also been proven to delete likes and dislikes to fit their agenda.
The public is fed up. The tide is turning. (to normalcy, not simply conservative).
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
If the show is heavily focused on being woke, we should be able to discus it as well.
Some people like to discuss these things. Kinda like how Lebron should "shut up and dribble". Thats what youre saying to us right now.
We didnt make it political, the show did.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
There's a lot to criticize about Hollywood, but 2020 was a pretty awesome year for movies. Parasite, Joker, and Hollywood were three of the better films I've seen in a while. Unlike Nomadland -- which was trying way too hard to be a Serious Film That Merits Best Picture Consideration -- each of those movies is a pleasure to rewatch IMO.
Probably they should have just skipped the Oscars this year. All of the 2021 winners are going to have asterisks attached.
Probably they should have just skipped the Oscars this year. All of the 2021 winners are going to have asterisks attached.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
On the other hand, I agree with about Star Wars. I'm just done with Star Wars. I never even bothered to see the last one when I had it available for free and I have zero interest in seeing it now.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Im trying to think of the last really good movie Ive seen. I can't think of one that was truly great.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Victimhood confers no dignity, oppression no nobility. While your origin story may be the most interesting thing about you, the interesting thing about it is what it moves you to do, not say.
Successful people are those who already work hard and, when they get lucky, work harder. So show me your secrets, reveal to me your vision, take me thru your world. And, when we applaud the result, bow, say thank you, appreciate the folks who got you there, sit down & plan the next thing. You are not why - what you did is why.
When i first started making music with others, those others happened to be pretty fancy folk. That they would welcome my contributions was a heavenly gift to me, especially that they were tolerant of my musical naivete. Except one, a future platinum-selling singer. My enthrallment had me reaching for ever greater heights when he gave me a tug and said, "Mate, finish your note, then shut your bleedin' gob. Don't sing it 'less you mean it". I wish he could have been on the Oscar stage Sunday nite.
Successful people are those who already work hard and, when they get lucky, work harder. So show me your secrets, reveal to me your vision, take me thru your world. And, when we applaud the result, bow, say thank you, appreciate the folks who got you there, sit down & plan the next thing. You are not why - what you did is why.
When i first started making music with others, those others happened to be pretty fancy folk. That they would welcome my contributions was a heavenly gift to me, especially that they were tolerant of my musical naivete. Except one, a future platinum-selling singer. My enthrallment had me reaching for ever greater heights when he gave me a tug and said, "Mate, finish your note, then shut your bleedin' gob. Don't sing it 'less you mean it". I wish he could have been on the Oscar stage Sunday nite.
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CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I'm reposting now, but I think Gervais covered this in this one minute from his monologue at the Golden Globes 2020.
https://youtu.be/sR6UeVptzRg?t=385
https://youtu.be/sR6UeVptzRg?t=385
rockaction
Footballguy
Holy smoke. Never seen that.
Brando's counterpoint in the seventies might have been just as theatrical. See, there's room for the political, I guess. Just do it with ####in' style and art and entertainment. Look at everybody's face.
https://youtu.be/2QUacU0I4yU?t=36
But the taboos against harangues are there for a reason. The only reason Brando's thing worked is the pushback from the audience at the time. There's a tension there. Otherwise, it's, as Gervais said, a bunch of out-of-touch rick folks and their platitudes and shibboleths from art schools everywhere, in as much as art school politics are even comprehensible.
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facook
Footballguy
Wife, son, and I sat down to enjoy a 50th Anniversary celebration of Sesame Street on ABC last night. 20 minutes in we changed the channel from what turned out to be a BLM commercial/piece of propaganda. Sesame Street was and should be vehicle to bring racial understanding and healing. What they turned it into last night made me more sad than anything in the media has in a long time.
rockaction
Footballguy
Truly revolting watching what the heirs to beatnik and counterculture greatness have descended to. It's been somewhat co-opted and stolen. I guess the first deconstruction wasn't quite enough, it needed to go further than originally planned. Perhaps, and sadly, that was the intention all along.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Don’t like Tarantino’s stuff, but the other two were really good, as were Jojo Rabbit and Ford v. Ferrari.
I haven’t seen any of this year’s nominees, or even heard of them. Not because of pretentious actors or themes, but that pesky pandemic probably had something to do with it.
Like a lot of things, I expect the film industry will rebound in 2021/2. But changes in our media consumption will likely continue to whittle away at Hollywood’s film dominance, much more so than disgruntled fantasy sports players.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Sorry, I didn’t design the board. If you want to complain about the political ramifications of award shows/Hollywood, there’s a whole forum in which that topic can be discussed.
I’d prefer to learn something about the nominees, and not rehash how political correctness is destroying life as we know it.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I keep meaning to see Jojo Rabbit, but I have a feeling that it's the kind of movie I'm going to be in the right mood for. Good call on these two though -- they aren't really my thing, but other folks seemed to really like them.
