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Academy Awards 2021


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11 minutes ago, rockaction said:

You're saying the movies are the same as they always were in terms of political content and implying that therefore, the complaints about the political nature of the movies is wrong. You haven't seen the new ones. Ergo, it's impossible for you to comment on. You don't know what's in the new ones. I can't say that enough. We should be done with this and move on..

Saying things are the same as they always have been doesn't mean the complaints are wrong. "We" just keep having this same argument over and over and over for decades. It's a tired conversation for the movie thread. Movies are political and people don't always like those politics. Sounds like a perfect topic for the political thread here. Take it there and I will be sure to stay out of the MCU movie threads and all their political talk. 

 

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

Saying things are the same as they always have been doesn't mean the complaints are wrong. "We" just keep having this same argument over and over and over for decades. It's a tired conversation for the movie thread. Movies are political and people don't always like those politics. Sounds like a perfect topic for the political thread here. Take it there and I will be sure to stay out of the MCU movie threads due to all the anger in them about the politics of those films.

It's not the movie thread, it's the Academy Awards thread and people were wondering why viewership is down. I intoned why my viewership had left. Or do I need to remind you of which thread is which and direct you there?

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Seriously, telling me where to go is sort of the height of hubris.

"Hey man, why don't you go here and say it? Not in this thread we won't have it."

Okay, board cop. Nice work.

Eff that.

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

That's unfair. This clearly has gone way past what the FFA is supposed to be and into the political forum territory awhile ago. 

That's not unfair at all. Report it, then. Don't play moderator. The politics of Hollywood is inextricable from the art and the previous claims made (admittedly by me), which drew affirmative and negative responses. Hollywood is one of the biggest lobbying agents in Congress. It just lobbied against vaccine improvement and the sharing of vaccine technology because of copyright law and the supposed weakening of it. It's a political entity with political outreach and political content and political players. That it gets discussed here is par for the course. ####, three of the Best Picture nominees were expressly political from just a glance at them. But you want to limit discussion away from political content? That's absurd.

It's like discussing the CBA in the Shark Pool. It's inherently a political process. You can't have a discussion without it. It's like saying that it's a "tired" argument that Maurice Clarett couldn't enter the draft at eighteen years old. It's inherently political, and nothing is going change the poltics of it. It may seem to be a "settled" argument, or that it's "always the same," but it really isn't as static as you think. These things change in dynamics. Notice Hollywood being a very conservative public-serving entity from the jump morphing into a tastemaking place with radical chic politics. It hasn't always been the same, these political debates. That's a demonstrably false argument.

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How to discuss the potential awards and nominations given to Judas and the Black Messiah, Nomadland, and The Trial of the Chicago 7 without politics is totally beyond me. Good luck with that. That those movies even got made is reflective of political acts made years prior and manifest in art.

I don't think I've ever brought politics into the FFA or had a thread moved since the subdivision of the PSF. If anything, Otis and others were ridiculing me for putting certain topics in the PSF. He called putting one of the topics in the PSF "batty," though I knew the subject belonged there. Here, the content fits the thread. Notice I haven't brought Hannity, the right-wing or left-wing media filter, or other musings to bear. It's a personal take on actors and content within movies, especially the expressly political. That's an error in judgment to take it to another thread. This thing would be totally dead if not for those sentiments originated by me back four or so pages ago.

Anyway, I'll see you around.

 

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It has less to do with the topic being discussed than the tone for which it is being discussed. I am all for discussing the politics of any movie, that is certainly fair game in it's discussion. 

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12 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

It started out as a vague feeling for me last summer/fall and has gotten to be pretty specific now - I have fallen out of love with movies. The sanctimony finally got to me.

I have sold almost all of my Blu Rays and 4k movies - including my Star Wars - and I don't really feel bad about it.

:sadbanana:  That sucks.  

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10 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It has less to do with the topic being discussed than the tone for which it is being discussed. I am all for discussing the politics of any movie, that is certainly fair game in it's discussion. 

Eh, YMMV.

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18 minutes ago, rockaction said:

How to discuss the potential awards and nominations given to Judas and the Black Messiah, Nomadland, and The Trial of the Chicago 7 without politics is totally beyond me.

I hesitate to jump into this convo at all, but I'm wondering if you saw Nomadland?  Or I guess the others, but that one in particular.

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12 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

It started out as a vague feeling for me last summer/fall and has gotten to be pretty specific now - I have fallen out of love with movies. The sanctimony finally got to me.

I have sold almost all of my Blu Rays and 4k movies - including my Star Wars - and I don't really feel bad about it.

Whoa that’s surprising to hear. 

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2 minutes ago, krista4 said:

I hesitate to jump into this convo at all, but I'm wondering if you saw Nomadland?  Or I guess the others, but that one in particular.

Ya I was trying to figure out what he meant by lumping nomadland in there. 

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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Eh, YMMV.

For sure, it's just not how we normally discuss things with each other in the fantasy threads or genrepalooza. I almost see it like the old pornography definition. How do you know when a board discussion here has crossed into the political forum realm- you just know it when you see it (or are part of it in this case). Especially in this case where I think we are literally arguing points that aren't even contradictory to each other. 

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Just now, krista4 said:

I hesitate to jump into this convo at all, but I'm wondering if you saw Nomadland?  Or I guess the others, but that one in particular.

No, and I haven't discussed them. I was wondering -- and I think quite rightly -- how to keep the politics out of a movie discussion about an assassination of a Black Panther leader by the government and one about Jerry Rubin and company.

Nomadland was described to me by its own creator as a socio-political movie.

It goes to my first point. I'm out on Hollywood and political stories, even their escapism incorporates obnoxious (to me) politics. I'm certainly not sitting through an hour and a half of Hollywood garbage. I know that's not everybody's take, and it's strong language, but it's easy as pie to miss out on that. I was then sort of castigated into this discussion. Read the thread from Page 3. I think you'll find it different than the last few pages.

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47 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Saying things are the same as they always have been doesn't mean the complaints are wrong. "We" just keep having this same argument over and over and over for decades. It's a tired conversation for the movie thread. Movies are political and people don't always like those politics. Sounds like a perfect topic for the political thread here. Take it there and I will be sure to stay out of the MCU movie threads and all their political talk. 

 

:goodposting:Worse, if you are actually interested in learning about the movies which won the awards, you should ####/leave the thread to allow the deraillers to air their regurgitated grievances.

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

For sure, it's just not how we normally discuss things with each other in the fantasy threads or genrepalooza. I almost see it like the old pornography definition. How do you know when a board discussion here has crossed into the political forum realm- you just know it when you see it (or are part of it in this case). Especially in this case where I think we are literally arguing points that aren't even contradictory to each other. 

I think if you look hard enough for the reasons why, you'll find it. That's not a gripe, it's just look at my tone talking to Ghost Rider, even in disagreement, and then look at it since. I didn't have a bad day or anything. I'm quite happy. What does that tell you?

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12 hours ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, and I always said that about your first complaint, too. I'm just relaying why my dollar is gone.

As far as escapism goes, I hate the MCU and super hero movies. And they've gotten political, too. The last one I saw, which had Spider Man and the Avengers, we had a teen lead character that wouldn't visit the Washington Monument on a school trip because Washington was a slave owner. Her absence became a plot device. Again, the politics wound up in the plot. Same actress in a magazine a few weeks earlier talking about social justice and the like. Clearly, she'd either read the script and was good with it, or she was driving the plot. I should have known.

My quip was a personal taste thing. And I honestly think you're not seeing it because you're very, very liberal and accepting of that sort of stuff within the plot. I'm not, and I see crap like that in every movie. That's my honest two cents.

Bracie, on the other hand, could be among those who sees angels and demons manifest on earth and thinks Myles Garrett is a great guy, but we've been over that before and there's no need for him to "pray" for my "mental health" again. That's what a rube does.

I guess I do notice it a bit, and things like this are in some movies.  But I guess for me it's a combo of a few things:

  • i will admit you are right that things that bother you wouldn't bother me b/c of political leanings
  • I am not bombarded with politics in my daily life so I am more likely to shrug off a political comment in a movie (ie you reading the article in the magazine..)
  • to me the bolded is something a ####### HS kid would say, so it doesn't strike me too much as shoehorning a political message in a movie.  
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2 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

:goodposting:Worse, if you are actually interested in learning about the movies which won the awards, you should ####/leave the thread to allow the deraillers to air their regurgitated grievances.

Yeah, you're genuinely about five miles and a walking stick from making this any more palatable.

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

No, and I haven't discussed them. I was wondering -- and I think quite rightly -- how to keep the politics out of a movie discussion about an assassination of a Black Panther leader by the government and one about Jerry Rubin and company.

Nomadland was described to me by its own creator as a socio-political movie.

It goes to my first point. I'm out on Hollywood and political stories, even their escapism incorporates obnoxious (to me) politics. I'm certainly not sitting through an hour and a half of Hollywood garbage. I know that's not everybody's take, and it's strong language, but it's easy as pie to miss out on that. I was then sort of castigated into this discussion. Read the thread from Page 3. I think you'll find it different than the last few pages.

I think Nomadland is political and I have seen it. It's cool to be out on movies. I also think from the time I first replied to you in the morning until I came back to this thread in the evening, there was a lot of heated discussion that cranked up the temperature. My beef, as you are aware, is I enjoy movies and I just don't enjoy the regular conversation of people popping into movie related threads to say how much they don't like movies. You have the right and all that, but it does make me cranky same as if anyone came into any thread I enjoyed to say how much they disliked it, how it was trash, etc. 

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

No, and I haven't discussed them. I was wondering -- and I think quite rightly -- how to keep the politics out of a movie discussion about an assassination of a Black Panther leader by the government and one about Jerry Rubin and company.

Nomadland was described to me by its own creator as a socio-political movie.

It goes to my first point. I'm out on Hollywood and political stories, even their escapism incorporates obnoxious (to me) politics. I'm certainly not sitting through an hour and a half of Hollywood garbage. I know that's not everybody's take, and it's strong language, but it's easy as pie to miss out on that. I was then sort of castigated into this discussion. Read the thread from Page 3. I think you'll find it different than the last few pages.

I asked about Nomadland in particular, because I saw it twice and so far deem it my favorite of 2020, yet I didn't take even a smidgen of political activism out of it.  I don't know a ton about your movie taste but wonder if you might even like it.  It's a very loving portrait of the US and a particular group of people in it.  The people in the movie who were not actors (which was a great deal of the cast) didn't, as I recall, make any political statements, grand or not, in it.

I do have a little weird reaction to your haranguing 80s about having opinions about movies he's not seen but you deem an important part of the public consciousness, yet you've made assumptions about these movies (right or wrong, since your assumption on Chicago 7 is certainly correct) without seeing them.  Reading about them, to your earlier point, doesn't do it, does it?

In any case, I don't want to be part of this so will let you tell me all the ways I'm wrong and then let you be.  :) 

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

I think Nomadland is political and I have seen it. 

Since you've seen it, and I didn't get this out of it, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.  The only mildly political part I would see is the companies that built up these towns and then abandoned them, but then I don't know where that falls on the political spectrum as I don't see it as a left/right issue.

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1 minute ago, krista4 said:

Since you've seen it, and I didn't get this out of it, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.  The only mildly political part I would see is the companies that built up these towns and then abandoned them, but then I don't know where that falls on the political spectrum as I don't see it as a left/right issue.

The leader/guru of the "nomads" certainly has an anti-capitalist view. He talks about how we volunteer to be like horses, work for the companies until we have nothing left and are ready to die. He's preaching an entire ethos of living outside of the main stream consumer culture system. I don't think it is THE main theme of the movie and if anything, Amazon is portrayed fairly positively to balance it out. However, there was a little bit of politics there. 

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4 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, when Binky called you a ninny he did pretty much have it spot on. And me and Binky have had go-rounds. You'd like to be saved from everything. Live life to the safest and all.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make, but I can assure you my tolerance for risk has nothing to do with entering this thread. I just would like to learn something about the movies.

If they involve politics, fine. But when discussion devolves into the umpteenth thread complaining about identity politics, you drown out a lot of other info.

 

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Honest question, is it that politics are in movies as people perceive them, or is it the cloud of liberal politics around Hollywood? 

Follow up question if it's the liberal politics - why hasn't there been a movie studio created that might be more catered to the right leaning crowd?  With all the separation in SM, news, etc.  you would think there would be room for a studio or streaming service like that.  

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5 minutes ago, krista4 said:

I do have a little weird reaction to your haranguing 80s about having opinions about movies he's not seen but you deem an important part of the public consciousness, yet you've made assumptions about these movies (right or wrong, since your assumption on Chicago 7 is certainly correct) without seeing them.  Reading about them, to your earlier point, doesn't do it, does it?

In any case, I don't want to be part of this so will let you tell me all the ways I'm wrong and then let you be.  :) 

That's fine about the reaction. It was relevant to his declarative that "movies" (not film) haven't changed. Right off the top of my head, I'll think of the biggest blockbuster of my youth, ET. The movie -- and blockbusters like it -- didn't try and make a political statement or have political op-eds buried within, MCU does and flaunts it. Joss Wheedon is notorious for taunting people he disagrees with politically, and he oversaw the particular one I was talking about. To not know this yet say that movies "are the same as they've ever been" puts one in a position of having to know how they were and how they are now and to have watched them. Hence the seeming harangue.

My whole point on Page 3 was about dropping out of Hollywood. I don't see how me not having seen the three you mentioned bolsters a point pro or con related to my original point of dropping out. That I said you can't discuss those three without politics is likely correct, too.

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3 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

The leader/guru of the "nomads" certainly has an anti-capitalist view. He talks about how we volunteer to be like horses, work for the companies until we have nothing left and are ready to die. He's preaching an entire ethos of living outside of the main stream consumer culture system. I don't think it is THE main theme of the movie and if anything, Amazon is portrayed fairly positively to balance it out. However, there was a little bit of politics there. 

I don’t see how that’s political. That’s a vision on how the world should be. 
 

I am guessing but I would imagine most of the people portrayed on nomadland absolutely hate our entire political system. Both parties. 

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1 minute ago, KarmaPolice said:

Honest question, is it that politics are in movies as people perceive them, or is it the cloud of liberal politics around Hollywood? 

Follow up question if it's the liberal politics - why hasn't there been a movie studio created that might be more catered to the right leaning crowd?  With all the separation in SM, news, etc.  you would think there would be room for a studio or streaming service like that.  

Because right-wingers aren't artists and can't make movies. When they attempt them, they come out poorly. That's the best answer I can give. And people pay hand-over-fist for Hollywood. Why change the distribution and supply if there's money there? 

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4 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Honest question, is it that politics are in movies as people perceive them, or is it the cloud of liberal politics around Hollywood? 

Follow up question if it's the liberal politics - why hasn't there been a movie studio created that might be more catered to the right leaning crowd?  With all the separation in SM, news, etc.  you would think there would be room for a studio or streaming service like that.  

Hollywood used to be lean right or at least be pretty well balanced. Good question as to why it has shifted so seismically. 

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4 minutes ago, Capella said:

I don’t see how that’s political. That’s a vision on how the world should be. 
 

I am guessing but I would imagine most of the people portrayed on nomadland absolutely hate our entire political system. Both parties. 

Hating our political parties is still a political position IMO. 

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15 minutes ago, krista4 said:

Since you've seen it, and I didn't get this out of it, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.  The only mildly political part I would see is the companies that built up these towns and then abandoned them, but then I don't know where that falls on the political spectrum as I don't see it as a left/right issue.

I didn't see Nomadland as political at all.

 

 

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10 hours ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

Im trying to think of the last really good movie Ive seen. I can't think of one that was truly great. 

Just in the last couple years off the top of my head:

Sound of Metal, Marriage Story, Parasite, Portrait of a Lady on Fire, Knives Out, Little Women, 1917, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Booksmart, Palm Springs, Ford v Ferrari, Hereditary, First Man, Leave No Trace 

I am sure I am missing a bunch.  :shrug:

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I am not sure what this movie vs films thing is or how we are talking about the Oscars because it is an Oscar thread but actually talking MCU movies of which none were released this past year. I just think we are all making varying points and arguments that don't all really align with what others were saying or arguing. We all probably come off like grumpy old people complaining (which is exactly what I was lamenting). Some of like movies, some of us don't. I will focus on interacting with all of you in the threads where we can discuss things we share a liking for. 

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I don't care if these movies are woke, if they have value beyond decent netflix series I'll watch.  They don't seem to, and haven't for some time.  I remember when interesting things like Memento and Being John Malkovich and anything with Bill Murray were worth getting hyped for.  Maybe the wokeness has taken movies away from being fun.  Dunno.  

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13 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I am not sure what this movie vs films thing is or how we are talking about the Oscars because it is an Oscar thread but actually talking MCU movies of which none were released this past year. I just think we are all making varying points and arguments that don't all really align with what others were saying or arguing. We all probably come off like grumpy old people complaining (which is exactly what I was lamenting). Some of like movies, some of us don't. I will focus on interacting with all of you in the threads where we can discuss things we share a liking for. 

Mmm...it was a distinction I made when responding to Andy back on Page Four. MCU is just a distillation of what, to me, has gone on in movies since.

It's not that I don't like movies, per se. I don't watch them anymore. You've noticed I don't comment in the movie threads other than to say "What's up?" because I don't watch them for this very reason. My input was in response to a direct observation about Oscar viewership being down 50 percent -- so I weighed in with why, on my end, that was true. I used to watch film and movies all the time. Like most free time waking hours.

That's a lot different than searching out something one hates and hating on it. I happened to be in thread, know the people commenting in the thread, and gave a potential reason as to why. It was a moment of candor, actually, as I generally don't beat that horse. There's no crime and no punishment there. Just an observation.

If I walked into a fantasy football thread where people were wondering why its popularity was down and I honestly said it's because of the fanboys that seem to gravitate to it, I wouldn't hate fantasy football, I'd be making an observation about the attendant circumstances for my withdrawal from it. Doesn't mean that that complaint is out of place or grumpy. It's a personal observation.

In addition, I tend to let threads go where they go, almost every time. I've started a bunch that wound up wildly divergent from their original intent and don't mind when they do. At the end of the day, this whole FFA is here to prompt discussion and that's what I gave. The thread was dying. That it doesn't resemble what it was back last night is sort of par for the course on any message board, even a moderated one.

That's the last of my two cents about the circumstances of this discussion.

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On 4/26/2021 at 8:04 PM, rockaction said:

An honest response: Believe it or not, while I'm more than down to discuss politics on a message board, I'm usually not one to let his political views bleed into his artistic appreciation or social life at all. I'm sitting next to a record bin that has "The Buzzcocks" emblazoned on the cover of one LP and an LP where the lead track is about two fugitives from the law about to shoot an on-duty police officer because he killed a black child, according to the story.

But I've about had it with the institution that is Hollywood, both politically and spiritually. Not to mention morally. And not to mention how gobsmackingly stupid the plots are now in most movies. And that they aren't edifying nor escapist in the least. I never watch movies anymore, and they've lost an easy ticket sale. This has been going on for a few years. I don't need a lecture from Brie Larson every time I watch a movie, the stars in the movies aren't appealing, and it's just a place and frame of mind that's anathema to almost everything I appreciate and believe in when it comes to art.

I think there's definitely cause for reflection there. They're really losing people for these reasons.

RA - I am not trying to pick a fight or anything, I was just going back farther and farther in the thread to see the genesis of what I walked into tonight.  I have found your posts and Andy's interesting (and I could understand them today! ;) ), and was interested in them.  

As to the bolded, I have been running through a ton of 80s movies during the last year, and I am here to tell you that this was the case 40 years ago too.  

I am not going to assume what your SM or reading habits are, but IMO a lot of this has less to do with the type of movies and what they are saying and more to do with the bombardment of politics everywhere else - mainly SM.  I think it's similar to sports.  If people are bombarded with messages about the libs in Hollywood, videos and articles about what political statement Joe Director or Jane Actress made, etc.  seeing that even briefly in a movie or during a game is probably that thing that just puts it over the top.  That is why some of these posts interest me - I have 0 clue WTF Brie Larson thinks about politics, I just know she's done some damn good work in some movies I've really loved.   I just think a lot of what's changed is SM and how much people have access to stuff like this 24/7.    I feel like the weird old fart - my exposure to this stuff is 95% FBGs, and usually I am left thinking "WTF are you guys talking about??" and have to go look it up.  

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As far as why viewership is down, IMO it's several things.   

  • For some it could be political - ie speeches. 
  • I am the target audience for this, and I will admit to thinking they are dull and too long.  Usually I have it on mute in the background while I read or something.  
  • A hell of a lot more options for your eyeballs 
  • I think most importantly the divide between what is popular in the theater and what is up for awards keeps growing.  Look at the movies nominated in the 80s.  Sure you have Raging Bull and My Left Foot type movies, but you also have Dead Poets Society, Rain Main, Working Girl, etc.  I think there used to be a bit more variety for people to tune in for.  They tried getting back to that a bit when they upped the Best Pic noms to 10, but it was probably a little too little too late for that sort of thing.  
  • giving awards for art is kinda dumb anyway ;) 
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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

The leader/guru of the "nomads" certainly has an anti-capitalist view. He talks about how we volunteer to be like horses, work for the companies until we have nothing left and are ready to die. He's preaching an entire ethos of living outside of the main stream consumer culture system. I don't think it is THE main theme of the movie and if anything, Amazon is portrayed fairly positively to balance it out. However, there was a little bit of politics there. 

I was thinking in particular about Amazon, as I agree with you that it was portrayed pretty positively.  And if I were to guess, the "anti-establishment" bent of most of the nomads would be more on the conservative side, but I could be wrong.  Not knowing that, however, is an argument it wasn't political.  It's a bit hard to see a political bent without being able to identify what politics they might identify with.  

I think this goes to other posts, about what someone is looking for when they watch a movie.  I feel like some here are actively looking to be upset about what they watch, or even what they don't watch.  It would be nice to see a more neutral view of how someone comes to a piece of art (which I'm not saying I accomplish all the time either).

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

Honest question, is it that politics are in movies as people perceive them, or is it the cloud of liberal politics around Hollywood? 

Follow up question if it's the liberal politics - why hasn't there been a movie studio created that might be more catered to the right leaning crowd?  With all the separation in SM, news, etc.  you would think there would be room for a studio or streaming service like that.  

It's a great question, and I think it's both (how's that for a non-answer).  

But more broadly, I do think it's what someone is looking for and setting themselves up to see, more than anything.  As an example, it was stated that The Trial of the Chicago 7 had an obvious political bent.  We accept that as true because it's about a political event.

However, is the political bent really what was presented, or what someone perceives (even not seeing the movie) based on what their political persuasion is?  I did see the movie, and as you know, my issues with it were that it presented the politics of it incorrectly.  Of course, this movie is about a political event, but did it present the events with a liberal persuasion?  My view is that it absolutely did not.  In fact, to the contrary, it whitewashed the events.  It made Abbie Hoffman into almost an establishment figure - FFS it had him arguing that the way to change the system was to vote!  Hoffman wanted to destroy the system, not save it.  

My view of the movie is that it was politically bent, but in a way that was more conservative than the actual facts of the situation.  And I don't really care if the movie wanted to present an opinion of the events, to make it seem like "liberals good" or "liberals bad," but that it was historically inaccurate.

In that context, seeing this as simply a "political movie" that assumes it presents a liberal POV is woefully simplistic.  

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1 minute ago, KarmaPolice said:

I am not going to assume what your SM or reading habits are, but IMO a lot of this has less to do with the type of movies and what they are saying and more to do with the bombardment of politics everywhere else - mainly SM.  I think it's similar to sports. 

KP, the politics of my social media is incredibly, incredibly limited. I have Matt Taibbi, Jesse Walker, and Sean Trende of Real Clear Politics (who I honestly used to work with back in '97 and '98) as follows. And a buddy of mine who is a professor that wrote a philosophical tract recently. That's it but for fantasy and regular football. I get no other political news on SM but from them. And they're generally damn good follows.

Most of my news, as indicated in the PSF thread and the discussion we were having, comes from the AP, Reuters, and dispatches from the Washington Post, whose articles I quickly burn out every month in free allotment. CNN is on all the time in the background of the household and I largely ignore it but for familiarizing myself with the stories so I can better understand the anchors yelling at me. Like you, most of my news also comes from these boards, too, whereupon I look it up. I've noticed there's no story in the past four years that's too crazy to be true.

I don't think it's that I'm bombarded with politics from social media. That's too easy for why Hollywood rubs me the wrong way. I think the politics and issues of the day are so crazy that I'm ultra-skeptical about the level of toxicity they have and breed and how that has bled into our personal lives and into our art. I don't blame those that react to it, either. It seems to have been a very conscious decision for entertainment to have gotten inherently political, from sports to theater. My consumption of sports has waned, too.

Politics has gotten very intense and very personal. I went to vote in the open Democratic primary in California, told the poll worker why I was there (she asked), and was immediately electioneered loudly by somebody who was a Republican. It still sticks in my craw that your average voter saw fit to loudly tell me who to vote for and why. I was wearing nothing that would have betrayed my own politics, but the toxic, in-your-face nature of our current situation caused that sort of unwanted intrusion in my world. I find that that's about the equivalent of your average Hollywood movie, it's just that I'm paying for the movie and lecture.

So I've dropped the world, so to speak.

And I see it in music, but make exceptions. For example, I love RTJ4, and how political is that album? Probably the most radical leftism since Rage in '92 or The Coup, maybe. And my thoughts at times are "With beats like these, this is what moves you?" to El-P and Mike. But then, knowing how radically political they were since about the year 2000 from listening to Company Flow (Killer Mike was apolitical then; he was in OutKast's crew back at the time and was trying for a hit song) led to something of a detente on that front -- I came to believe that you don't make a leopard change his spots or a zebra his stripes. This has been going on twenty years from them, so I can sit back and say, yeah, you be you. So it's not a knee-jerk reaction to Hollywood politics per se, it's that they're omnipresent in the art and generally really vapid. In addition, music is math. ####### with music and meter and rhyme in poetry can't be done. There is, however, room to blather in movies and make the art totally a function of politics. Which I think they've done to a degree. So it's unenjoyable in that respect. Unless you really, really dig cinematography.

And that's about it. That's where I'm coming from. It's not that I'm sensitive to it because of social media. I'm sensitive because the issues seem so personalized, the solutions so outlandish. But social media? Nothing could be further than the truth.

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13 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

As far as why viewership is down, IMO it's several things.   

  • For some it could be political - ie speeches. 
  • I am the target audience for this, and I will admit to thinking they are dull and too long.  Usually I have it on mute in the background while I read or something.  
  • A hell of a lot more options for your eyeballs 
  • I think most importantly the divide between what is popular in the theater and what is up for awards keeps growing.  Look at the movies nominated in the 80s.  Sure you have Raging Bull and My Left Foot type movies, but you also have Dead Poets Society, Rain Main, Working Girl, etc.  I think there used to be a bit more variety for people to tune in for.  They tried getting back to that a bit when they upped the Best Pic noms to 10, but it was probably a little too little too late for that sort of thing.  
  • giving awards for art is kinda dumb anyway ;) 

All of the above.

Also, to add to the second point, it's always been pretty dull and too long, but there were bits of comedy and excitement peppered in there that made it worthwhile to hang with it and watch.  Now, not only has there been less of that to watch for, but if anything does happen that's worth seeing, you can just watch clips on the internet shortly afterwards.

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3 minutes ago, krista4 said:

In that context, seeing this as simply a "political movie" that assumes it presents a liberal POV is woefully simplistic.  

Movie doesn't get made but for a financial decision about a political event somewhere, and if one were to guess and have limited time, one would guess a certain way. I'm certainly not moved by the trials and tribulations of the plot vis a vis Abbie Hoffman if it means having to sit through two hours of typical Hollywood politics. Everybody has screens. That the screen gets activated might reflect more on the industry than the simplicity of the viewer. We all have limited time and money to spend. If a chicken sees his chicken friends walk out of the barn every morning, hears the sickening thud of the hatchet, and his chicken friends never come back, who's going to leave the barn some given morning? For what, for proof? The proof has long been in that pudding. 

That's not woefully simplistic, that's called saving time because one has other interests. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, usually is a duck, the nuance of Abbie's portrayal notwithstanding. They've lost me from the jump, I'm not interested in the nuances of the way it unfolds.

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Hollywood used to be lean right or at least be pretty well balanced. Good question as to why it has shifted so seismically. 

This is something I was thinking about in light of the Oscars.  I do think there's a discussion to be had of "when does it go too far in the other direction?"  Now, while I'll offend rock and the other right-wingers, I'll say that I'm not super-sympathetic to cries of unfairness after so many years of it tilting (to put it mildly) the other way, but as for me I'd rather an appropriate balance be struck.

Case(s) in point:

- The documentary "Time" was the favorite to win in feature, but lost to My Octopus Teacher (yay!).  KP and I had discussed this movie in the thread and in PM, and without putting words in his mouth, I'd say we both felt that it went way too far in its presentation of the justice system as "slavery."  But I was convinced, as were people who predict such things, that it would win in large part because of the material it covered.  I was happy that we hadn't gotten to that point, as it turned out.

- As you know, I revel in the various short film nominees, and this year I was certain that two of those that ended up winning would win because of their subject matters.  Were they otherwise the most deserving?  In my opinion, they weren't.  In particular, the animated winner wasn't particularly good in terms of its animation or its story, but because it was about school shootings, it seemed a lock.  

As another bit of this, though, I have to tell you that I was disgusted by what I saw from the filmmakers of my favorite documentary short, Love Song for Latasha.  I thought this might win, not just because of topical subject matter (shooting of a black teenager by a Korean grocer in the early 90s), but because it was to me the most beautifully made.  When it lost to a film of a historically Academy-favorite type (Holocaust survivor), I couldn't fault that as the winner was also a wonderful movie.  But during the acceptance speech, the camera cut to the four Black females who made "Latasha," and one of them literally rolled her eyes at the camera while the others had their faces in their phones with disgusted looks.  It was so ####### rude, and it made me think that they just assumed they'd win and saw their loss as something other than a legitimate loss to a fine film.  

These are just some "feelings" about where we are, but I do worry about our going too far the other way.  I don't like the big pendulum swings in any case.

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54 minutes ago, Capella said:

I suppose but that doesn’t seem to match the intent of the thread

As the OP, my intent was really just a thread to post in and read while getting drunk and watching the Oscars.

I’m not complaining about where it has gone (it has been interesting to read and has given it extra life), but that was my original intent anyway.

Edited by Don Quixote
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