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Academy Awards 2021


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Thanks for the response, @rockaction.   My gut feeling was that it wasn't specifically you, but I do think the lack of being able to escape politics in general has been ramping up for the majority of people.   

I want to know and I don't more specific examples of how you are feeling that you are paying to be lectured on politics while watching movies.  I just listed a handful of faves a bit ago and don't see it in most stuff I watch.   So on one hand I want to know more examples of what has specifically made you stop watching movies and made @Andy Dufresne sell of his movies.  On the other hand, I want to remain blissfully ignorant and just keep a love of one of the few things I have left in life. ;)    I am just honestly shuked by these responses.  

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5 minutes ago, krista4 said:

This is something I was thinking about in light of the Oscars.  I do think there's a discussion to be had of "when does it go too far in the other direction?"  Now, while I'll offend rock and the other right-wingers, I'll say that I'm not super-sympathetic to cries of unfairness after so many years of it tilting (to put it mildly) the other way, but as for me I'd rather an appropriate balance be struck.

Case(s) in point:

- The documentary "Time" was the favorite to win in feature, but lost to My Octopus Teacher (yay!).  KP and I had discussed this movie in the thread and in PM, and without putting words in his mouth, I'd say we both felt that it went way too far in its presentation of the justice system as "slavery."  But I was convinced, as were people who predict such things, that it would win in large part because of the material it covered.  I was happy that we hadn't gotten to that point, as it turned out.

- As you know, I revel in the various short film nominees, and this year I was certain that two of those that ended up winning would win because of their subject matters.  Were they otherwise the most deserving?  In my opinion, they weren't.  In particular, the animated winner wasn't particularly good in terms of its animation or its story, but because it was about school shootings, it seemed a lock.  

As another bit of this, though, I have to tell you that I was disgusted by what I saw from the filmmakers of my favorite documentary short, Love Song for Latasha.  I thought this might win, not just because of topical subject matter (shooting of a black teenager by a Korean grocer in the early 90s), but because it was to me the most beautifully made.  When it lost to a film of a historically Academy-favorite type (Holocaust survivor), I couldn't fault that as the winner was also a wonderful movie.  But during the acceptance speech, the camera cut to the four Black females who made "Latasha," and one of them literally rolled her eyes at the camera while the others had their faces in their phones with disgusted looks.  It was so ####### rude, and it made me think that they just assumed they'd win and saw their loss as something other than a legitimate loss to a fine film.  

These are just some "feelings" about where we are, but I do worry about our going too far the other way.  I don't like the big pendulum swings in any case.

No, you are not wrong in that assessment.  If we thought this, I can't imagine what people from the opposite end of the political spectrum would think of the doc.  

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I know comedies rarely get nominated for Academy Awards, but what happened to making funny movies? I never hear chatter anymore about this new funny movie or that funny movie.  In the 80's and 90's, it seemed like there were always bunches of hilarious movies every year.  Nowadays, not so much, or at least I never hear about them. 

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4 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

I know comedies rarely get nominated for Academy Awards, but what happened to making funny movies? I never hear chatter anymore about this new funny movie or that funny movie.  In the 80's and 90's, it seemed like there were always bunches of hilarious movies every year.  Nowadays, not so much, or at least I never hear about them. 

A couple I posted above were comedies - Booksmart and Palm Springs.    I think most things get pushed aside at the box office for franchise movies and cheap horror movies, if that's what you are specifically asking about.  

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Just now, KarmaPolice said:

A couple I posted above were comedies - Booksmart and Palm Springs.    I think most things get pushed aside at the box office for franchise movies and cheap horror movies, if that's what you are specifically asking about.  

Not per se.  My post was more or less a lament about how unfortunate it is that good comedic films seems to be a lost art.  Maybe it is my age (47), but if someone asked to me list my favorite 50 comedic films, there probably wouldn't more than five or six from the 21st century, and most of those were well over 10 years ago (Wedding Crashers, 40 Year Old Virgin, Anchorman, Super Troopers). 

I think it is evident that more and more stars are opting for TV because dramatic TV is where the real magic has been happening in the 21st century, moreso than in film.  Not saying there haven't been great films in the last 20 years, because there have been, but movies in general just don't seem as appealing in general as they used to be.  

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2 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Not per se.  My post was more or less a lament about how unfortunate it is that good comedic films seems to be a lost art.  Maybe it is my age (47), but if someone asked to me list my favorite 50 comedic films, there probably wouldn't more than five or six from the 21st century, and most of those were well over 10 years ago (Wedding Crashers, 40 Year Old Virgin, Anchorman, Super Troopers). 

I think it is evident that more and more stars are opting for TV because dramatic TV is where the real magic has been happening in the 21st century, moreso than in film.  Not saying there haven't been great films in the last 20 years, because there have been, but movies in general just don't seem as appealing in general as they used to be.  

:wall: 

;)

 

I realize that I am in the minority when it comes to the output of TV shows.   So rare is something that I think is great or at least didn't limp to the finish line and make me question watching hours and hours of a show.  

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10 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

:wall: 

;)

 

I realize that I am in the minority when it comes to the output of TV shows.   So rare is something that I think is great or at least didn't limp to the finish line and make me question watching hours and hours of a show.  

I get that, but it can help to view a TV show as more about the journey than the ending. It seems far more necessary for a film to have an ending that sticks to landing than a TV show.  I can name tons of TV shows that didn't (IMO) have a great finale and/or last season, but were still overall great shows.  It is rare for me to say a film is great when it didn't end well (in regards to quality, not happy vs sad). 

Edited by Ghost Rider
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11 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Not per se.  My post was more or less a lament about how unfortunate it is that good comedic films seems to be a lost art.  Maybe it is my age (47), but if someone asked to me list my favorite 50 comedic films, there probably wouldn't more than five or six from the 21st century, and most of those were well over 10 years ago (Wedding Crashers, 40 Year Old Virgin, Anchorman, Super Troopers). 

I think it is evident that more and more stars are opting for TV because dramatic TV is where the real magic has been happening in the 21st century, moreso than in film.  Not saying there haven't been great films in the last 20 years, because there have been, but movies in general just don't seem as appealing in general as they used to be.  

comedy has never been a mainstay at the Academy Awards

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43 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I do think the lack of being able to escape politics in general has been ramping up for the majority of people.   

On the other hand, I want to remain blissfully ignorant and just keep a love of one of the few things I have left in life. ;)  

I think when things are unsettled, and people start asking questions about fundamentals in society, that there's certainly a degree of this desire to escape the political. I think, and not everybody would agree, that the ramifications of the modern political programs of those in power and those dispossessed are far-reaching, because the answers from each side seem to reek of the totalitarian, which means everybody is along for the ride whether they like it or not. And I'd say most people like their lives, if not their governance (another political paradox seemingly enshrined in our everyday lives).

On the right, I personally see democracy losing ground as a political system, and on the left, I see the legitimization of voices to abolish private property and almost every tradition that flows therefrom; including basic family units and even such core concepts as body integrity certitude. Compounding the problems with the radicalism of ideology is that for each side, the radical iterations of both left and right have been adopted by the two colossus parties in America. Perhaps that seems like an extreme overreaction or a misdiagnosis, but the rhetoric and philosophical underpinnings seem to not betray that. I've seen First Things, a conservative magazine that has pull with conservative thinkers, openly arguing for a decrease in democratic institutions because they can no longer raise their children in America as they want to without intrusion from the other side, or at least they argue. Some even hold conferences  hoping for the rise of monarchy, I've noticed. Then I see the other side calling for the abolition of property, police, gender determinism -- the belief that everything deterministic should be abolished so that we get to live our tabula rasas, and I'm given pause by the desire to completely eradicate institutions under the guise of one cause or another.

This is what a lot of people have an inkling of, I surmise, but they don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with my contentions, either. In their world, there's just something amiss and wrong, and they can't put their finger on it. To a lot of people, power is beyond their control in economic and political structures, and they'd like it back to a degree, but they don't explain it like me, nor necessarily believe that what I'm saying is the case -- I would of course argue I'm correct and the people certainly haven't sussed out the ramifications of the political programs proposed to them.

But yeah, as far as relating back to Hollywood goes, I think they see Hollywood infusing itself with politics, politics that are either shaping the public or that the public is reacting negatively to. To your latter point about wanting to but not wanting to see examples, I'll just say that there are examples, but a lot of the examples given would be thematic. By that I mean that the whole process serves ideological premises that are functions of certain philosophic constructs. I can't speak for Andy, but his walking away from movies doesn't surprise me in the least given his comments in the Shark Pool, of all places. I think his is a dissent from the general disposition and thematic nature of the issues and stories Hollywood chooses to tackle and how they tackle them. The problems and their solutions, let's say. I'll let him speak further on it if he wishes, but it's like Ilov mentioning Potter Stewart: You know it when you see it.

So, yeah, by way of answer, there ya go.

Edited by rockaction
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Since when have we cancelled large sporting events because of one person shooting another in our system? It's happening on the reg right now. Big Entertainment (a term that can encompass the industries where potentially billions of dollars are flying around everywhere) has staked out its claim to being political, endorsing the politically active, or at least being politically aware; to think that Hollywood is a bastion that isn't a part of it is a bit surprising to me. I don't know how people can't see it. And that's not by way of picking a fight, it just doesn't seem like the concerns of Big Entertainment trump the daily and mundanely political anymore, and I think it's reflected in selection of story, plot movement or claims, and the thematic choices that make up the plots.

Hoo boy. Enough from me.

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10 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

There's been several things written on the founding of the Academy of Arts and Sciences as a measure by Louis B Mayer to settle union disputes and avoid a need for unions and the usage of the award show as a way to control the kind of movies artists would want to make. I can't say I have fact checked them all, but plenty to read about it.

As you are the one who made the initial assertion, it behooves you to research something you said that just isn't true.  Louis B was pretty awful.  Taking advantage of a situation for his own purposes sounds just like him.

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8 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

It has less to do with the topic being discussed than the tone for which it is being discussed. I am all for discussing the politics of any movie, that is certainly fair game in it's discussion. 

This for me.  Being a glassbowl really doesn't add anything to a discussion.  It just makes me sad for the person who wants to hijack a conversation this way.

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7 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Honest question, is it that politics are in movies as people perceive them, or is it the cloud of liberal politics around Hollywood? 

Follow up question if it's the liberal politics - why hasn't there been a movie studio created that might be more catered to the right leaning crowd?  With all the separation in SM, news, etc.  you would think there would be room for a studio or streaming service like that.  

Dude, there's a wiki.

Also...

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6 hours ago, krista4 said:

My view of the movie is that it was politically bent, but in a way that was more conservative than the actual facts of the situation.  And I don't really care if the movie wanted to present an opinion of the events, to make it seem like "liberals good" or "liberals bad," but that it was historically inaccurate.

This describes my problem with Oliver Stone's JFK.  Most of it is hogwash.  Offensive hogwash at that.

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6 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

I know comedies rarely get nominated for Academy Awards, but what happened to making funny movies? I never hear chatter anymore about this new funny movie or that funny movie.  In the 80's and 90's, it seemed like there were always bunches of hilarious movies every year.  Nowadays, not so much, or at least I never hear about them. 

Comedies have always gotten short shrift.  Somehow, they are viewed as "less than".  I have no idea why.  Probably because a lot of actors can't do it well.

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6 hours ago, rockaction said:

on the left, I see the legitimization of voices to abolish private property and almost every tradition that flows therefrom; including basic family units and even such core concepts as body integrity certitude.

I think you made this up.  How about a specific example(s) of abolishing private property?

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1 hour ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

As you are the one who made the initial assertion, it behooves you to research something you said that just isn't true.  Louis B was pretty awful.  Taking advantage of a situation for his own purposes sounds just like him.

I read about it awhile ago, but here are some links that all seem to say the same thing:

Inside the Union-Busting Birth of the Academy Awards

The Show Made to Control Hollywood

The ceremony itself was rooted in union-busting, laying the basis for the art vs. mass acclaim debate we see play out today

I am open to other sources with other ideas to add to the story or something that corrects these stories but as long as I've read about the Academy, this has been the general narrative of it's origins. 

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7 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

I get that, but it can help to view a TV show as more about the journey than the ending. It seems far more necessary for a film to have an ending that sticks to landing than a TV show.  I can name tons of TV shows that didn't (IMO) have a great finale and/or last season, but were still overall great shows.  It is rare for me to say a film is great when it didn't end well (in regards to quality, not happy vs sad). 

The rise of TV absolutely has hurt the movie industry. Queens Gambit would have been a hit movie 15 years ago, now it's a Netflix miniseries. The expansiveness is the great strength and weakness of TV. While I enjoy the large world shows like GoT or Breaking Bad get the space to create, I also think that space can cause some shows to sprawl out of control or become repetitive. GoT and Walking Dead being perfect examples. The line of what is a movie and what is TV is actually pretty hard to define now. I struggle with the watching TV because of the huge commitment to it. The idea of being 30 hours into something and then getting bored or finding it losing it's way makes me so hesitant to start a show. Maybe we can call that the Game of Thrones effect lol. 

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9 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

As far as why viewership is down, IMO it's several things.   

  • For some it could be political - ie speeches. 
  • I am the target audience for this, and I will admit to thinking they are dull and too long.  Usually I have it on mute in the background while I read or something.  
  • A hell of a lot more options for your eyeballs 
  • I think most importantly the divide between what is popular in the theater and what is up for awards keeps growing.  Look at the movies nominated in the 80s.  Sure you have Raging Bull and My Left Foot type movies, but you also have Dead Poets Society, Rain Main, Working Girl, etc.  I think there used to be a bit more variety for people to tune in for.  They tried getting back to that a bit when they upped the Best Pic noms to 10, but it was probably a little too little too late for that sort of thing.  
  • giving awards for art is kinda dumb anyway ;) 

While viewership has been dropping for years now, do you think the record low had anything to do with theaters being closed for several months and some movie releases being delayed because of a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic?

IMO it’s like 30% pandemic, 30% the rise of streaming media, 30% disconnect between popular, mostly action/adventure movies and “artsy” films, and the rest due people fed up with award show formatting, including unsolicited political drivel.

Edited by Terminalxylem
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51 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

While viewership has been dropping for years now, do you think the record low had anything to do with theaters being closed for several months and some movie releases being delayed because of a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic?

IMO it’s like 30% pandemic, 30% the rise of streaming media, 30% disconnect between popular, mostly action/adventure movies and “artsy” films, and the rest due people fed up with award show formatting, including unsolicited political drivel.

Sure.  On the flip side, because of the pandemic, this was a rare movie year that if you were into this sort of thing you have easy access to see all the nominees.  In most years I can barely see a couple of the nominees because they are in limited run or not in the theaters around my area.  I would just think those first two bolded would sort of cancel out b/c of the high portion of the movies you could have caught on a streaming service. 

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3 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

This for me.  Being a glassbowl really doesn't add anything to a discussion.  It just makes me sad for the person who wants to hijack a conversation this way.

This sounds awfully judgy and I don't think I like its tone or need your pity. I think your late-night additions are really out of line and the responses sort of pathetic, so we have something in common right now.

2 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

To what does this refer?

In Minnesota, professional sports teams were cancelling games over the latest shooting. In general, games have been cancelled and moved because of politics and riots because of policing. Nation-wide, IIRC. The NBA stopped its entire playoffs for a day or two because of a killing and had to settle down the players or they threatened not to play at all. To which I said, "big deal," but it apparently was.

2 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

I think you made this up.  How about a specific example(s) of abolishing private property?

These are indeed awfully judgy and pressy. I don't think I like their tone. BLM calls for the abolition of private property. So does critical race theory. BLM is led by admitted Marxists. They were started by three gay women who were into queer theory and trans rights and argue, I believe, for a new kind of understanding of the family re-imagined through that lens. Why would I or how could I make this up?

That you don't know that games are being cancelled and that BLM's leadership is Marxist by admission tells me you might best be served on the sideline of this argument.

Edited by rockaction
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I don't if you know how condescending you sound Mrs. R.,  but it's outpaced only by your ability to not know about the issue or be wrong about it.

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

The rise of TV absolutely has hurt the movie industry. Queens Gambit would have been a hit movie 15 years ago, now it's a Netflix miniseries. The expansiveness is the great strength and weakness of TV. While I enjoy the large world shows like GoT or Breaking Bad get the space to create, I also think that space can cause some shows to sprawl out of control or become repetitive. GoT and Walking Dead being perfect examples. The line of what is a movie and what is TV is actually pretty hard to define now. I struggle with the watching TV because of the huge commitment to it. The idea of being 30 hours into something and then getting bored or finding it losing it's way makes me so hesitant to start a show. Maybe we can call that the Game of Thrones effect lol. 

100% for me too.  Most of the time I am disappointed and feel like how you describe - the show has too much time.  Usually I just think "damn, I could have watched X # of movies instead of that one show".   To me most shows (unless they are drawing on source material) feel like they have a good enough idea for 2-3 great seasons, but they become popular and try to stretch it out for 5+ because of ratings - not because that's what the story needs.   Hell, even Queen's Gambit felt like it spun it's wheels a bit and I think that had a great 2 1/2 hour movie in it.  

I fully get why actors and directors might be drawn to the format though.  

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20 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Sure.  On the flip side, because of the pandemic, this was a rare movie year that if you were into this sort of thing you have easy access to see all the nominees.  In most years I can barely see a couple of the nominees because they are in limited run or not in the theaters around my area.  I would just think those first two bolded would sort of cancel out b/c of the high portion of the movies you could have caught on a streaming service. 

Maybe. But I also agree with your prior post that movies are just too long, and the wealth of options afforded by streaming media gives an alternative outlet for those with short attention spans.

Personally, I watched fewer movies this year.  Hence my interest in this thread.

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1 minute ago, Donning of a New Age said:

I love irony. 

Ah yes, the resident alias comes out to play with a jab. That's right. Flood the streets.

Hey, guess what alias? What have I been wrong about? My personal opinion that the movies are too political and that some people have tuned out for that reason? Yeah, that's disprovable. Love ya.

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17 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Maybe. But I also agree with your prior post that movies are just too long, and the wealth of options afforded by streaming media gives an alternative outlet for those with short attention spans.

Personally, I watched fewer movies this year.  Hence my interest in this thread.

I don't believe I said that.  If I did, it wasn't my intent.  

I don't get this beef either (and I do this too) when people will binge a season of a show in one night, but somehow a 150min movie is too long.   Maybe the show format and stretching it out allows people to fart around on their phone, miss things, and still not be lost?   I also get the popular/water cooler/keeping up with the newest season aspect is a big draw too.   

If you can't tell, I just really really disagree that the top 10 shows of a year are better than the 10 top movies of a year.   I think the streaming services are quantity over quality for the most part when it comes to TV shows.  

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I don't believe I said that.  If I did, it wasn't my intent.  

I don't get this beef either (and I do this too) when people will binge a season of a show in one night, but somehow a 150min movie is too long.   Maybe the show format and stretching it out allows people to fart around on their phone, miss things, and still not be lost?   I also get the popular/water cooler/keeping up with the newest season aspect is a big draw too.   

If you can't tell, I just really really disagree that the top 10 shows of a year are better than the 10 top movies of a year.   I think the streaming services are quantity over quality for the most part when it comes to TV shows.  

Rereading your post, I think you meant award shows are too long. My bad.

But I think attention spans are short for many of us. Binge or not, tv shows are easier to break down into easily digestible segments.

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Just now, Terminalxylem said:

Rereading your post, I think you meant award shows are too long. My bad.

But I think attention spans are short for many of us. Binge or not, tv shows are easier to break down into easily digestible segments.

I won't disagree with that.  I have tried my best to put the phone in the other room and sit and chill with a movie.  I have also done better about stopping movie 1/2 way and finishing it the next day.    I just think the argument breaks down a bit people admit to sitting down and binging a show for hours and hours.   

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I don't believe I said that.  If I did, it wasn't my intent.  

I don't get this beef either (and I do this too) when people will binge a season of a show in one night, but somehow a 150min movie is too long.   Maybe the show format and stretching it out allows people to fart around on their phone, miss things, and still not be lost?   I also get the popular/water cooler/keeping up with the newest season aspect is a big draw too.   

If you can't tell, I just really really disagree that the top 10 shows of a year are better than the 10 top movies of a year.   I think the streaming services are quantity over quality for the most part when it comes to TV shows.  

I haven't even felt compelled to even know what the last 10 best picture winner movies were even about, in situations where I did, most seemed outright garbage that if repackaged as a streaming show even at two-three episodes I'd never consider watching just on the high level previews.  

Does that make me less cultured?  Maybe.  Maybe the criteria that Netflix is/has created is superior than 21st Century or Spotlight or whatever.  

 

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12 minutes ago, culdeus said:

I haven't even felt compelled to even know what the last 10 best picture winner movies were even about, in situations where I did, most seemed outright garbage that if repackaged as a streaming show even at two-three episodes I'd never consider watching just on the high level previews.  

Does that make me less cultured?  Maybe.  Maybe the criteria that Netflix is/has created is superior than 21st Century or Spotlight or whatever.  

 

To be clear, the best pic winners <> best of the year usually either (for me anyway).  Also, as the Johnny Be Good last night, I am not implying one media is more cultured than the other either.  

For the most part it just comes down to preference and people being show or movie people.   Like I said, I think Queen's Gambit was a perfect example - highly acclaimed and people gushed over it in the threads, but I felt like it dragged and was about 2 hours too long.  I am just guessing here, but I think shows generate more buzz, talk, etc.. and gain the streaming services a more dedicated audience that will tune back in, and that's a big reason for them to churn out a show vs. movie.  

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9 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

To be clear, the best pic winners <> best of the year usually either (for me anyway).  Also, as the Johnny Be Good last night, I am not implying one media is more cultured than the other either.  

For the most part it just comes down to preference and people being show or movie people.   Like I said, I think Queen's Gambit was a perfect example - highly acclaimed and people gushed over it in the threads, but I felt like it dragged and was about 2 hours too long.  I am just guessing here, but I think shows generate more buzz, talk, etc.. and gain the streaming services a more dedicated audience that will tune back in, and that's a big reason for them to churn out a show vs. movie.  

I think that is true. I'm more movies than TV.  Because of the limited time, stories are tighter.  Some TV shows manage to hold up throughout their run, but I find most drag. While a movie itself longer than an TV episode, watching movies over multiple nights is the norm rather than the exception for me.

Rather than current movies, I've been watching a lot more older movies, and older foreign films, since the pandemic started.  It feels like transporting to both a different time and different place than current surroundings.  Foreign films have also helped with the phone habit because it forces me to pay attention to the subtitles on the screen.

But, since the pandemic started, I've probably powered through more books than watched TV/movies (and hardcover/paperbacks instead of my formerly trusty Kindle Paperwhite).  After sitting in front of a computer screen all day, nice to be away from a glowing screen.

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12 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

I know comedies rarely get nominated for Academy Awards, but what happened to making funny movies? I never hear chatter anymore about this new funny movie or that funny movie.  In the 80's and 90's, it seemed like there were always bunches of hilarious movies every year.  Nowadays, not so much, or at least I never hear about them. 

what has long mystified me is the lack of comedy auteur movies, why comedians don't make more small POV movies like Woody Allen used to. years ago, when my director cousin got big and said he'd get a script of mine seen as long as it was either THE GREATEST MOVIE OF ALL TIME or a $25mil make, i wrote my Annie Hall - loosely based on my experiences as a comedy writer in Manhattan the 80s, based in the world of the "little people" of showbiz - staff writers, publicists, segment producers, tech people, personal & production assistants, the folks whose apartments have "great views of the people with great views". for my money, these are the funnest & funniest people maybe anywhere and their lives are filled with great hope & great cynicism, giving them pathos AND bathos. it mystifies me that every comic who gets a break doesnt go there. (for the record, that mine didnt sell had nothing to do with there not being a market) because it's what made them funny in the first place.

when Kristen Wiig hit big with Bridesmaids, i was thrilled, because somebody FINALLY came across with the entertainment concept that women were as perfectly ridiculous as men, and savaged them accordingly. surely she was going to pursue that further and perhaps in a more personal, revelatory fashion. Kristen Wiig did not write another movie for NINE years (Barb & Star Go to Vista Del Mar, which is no more than cute, i hear) while having 45 imdb credits as a performer in the interim.

felt the same way 5 years later when Amy Schumer Annie-Halled her comic persona in Trainwreck to great effect. NO writing creds since. hell, the laziest person in comedy, Pete Davidson, had a quarantine hit with his roman a clef. i mean, what studio wouldnt give Chappelle $100mil for his vision of life & living? Jim Gaffigan? Tiffany Haddish? Hell, Marc Maron, Will Forte, Natasha Leggero & Moshe Kasher's marriage, Donald Glover, Heidi Gardner even.

if i could have any job in showbiz, it would be as a producer with a team of writers who could help a comic voice convert it to personal vision and then go after any comic who shines or even sparkeles and get em a movie career going. it's where comedy AND cash lives, baby!

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15 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Honest question, is it that politics are in movies as people perceive them, or is it the cloud of liberal politics around Hollywood? 

Follow up question if it's the liberal politics - why hasn't there been a movie studio created that might be more catered to the right leaning crowd?  With all the separation in SM, news, etc.  you would think there would be room for a studio or streaming service like that.  

For me it's the extremism.  I posted a joke from Twitter, someone else posted Gervais's comments...it's the idea that Joaquin Phoenix of all people thinks we should hear his opinion that we should not be drinking milk.  I'd be just as irritated if James Woods got up there and prefaced presenting an award by saying we should build that wall on the border.  Give the award, shut up, and sit down.  There are people who speak in life giving ways (Krista commented on a couple of these) but there are people who self-righteously preach.  No one tuned in to hear your crap.  The Sesame Street thing, for me, was over the line as I said before.  Don't use such a pure, good platform to prop up an extreme organization like BLM.  

To the point of examples of politics in movies/media: hyperbolically, EVERY show or movie has to have a trans person, and/or gay couple.  Any member of the clergy is evil at heart.  Christians are ignorant bumpkins, while people who practice eastern religions are enlightened, caring, and peaceful.  Every commercial has to have a mixed race couple (as wikkid commented on), often times same-gender.  Huge companies aligning themselves with protests, BLM, etc, in their commercials.  There is an agenda there.  I don't have to disagree with the value of the people portrayed to be annoyed that I'm being pounded over the head with it. 

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I've determined that actors/actresses aren't nearly as smart and important as they think they are.

Or as a large cross-section of their audience think they are.

Their opinions carry very little, if any, weight with me (outside of their field: acting).

I know, this is all so  obvious.

Yet not practiced nearly enough.

 

Edited by identikit
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20 minutes ago, identikit said:

I've determined that actors/actresses aren't nearly as smart and important as they think they are.

Or as a large cross-section of their audience think they are.

Their opinions carry very little, if any, weight with me (outside of their field: acting).

I know, this is all so  obvious.

Yet not practiced nearly enough.

 

their personae has a lot to do with the mindset created by constant and continual rejection as well, even if this time wasnt all about everybody congratulating themselves for who they are.

see, when them people kept going up and saying their hairdresser or agent was the best ever, to me they were saying that everybody else's wasnt and how is that not more cruel than kind? but the biz is peopled by those who must feel that way because the first 817 times they ran their act for the world, the world said "no". well, this fits like a lamé gown on disadvantaged classes as well, which is what is happening in "look at me" industries as they attempt to equalize. i hope people will soon decide to allow continued grace only to those who prove to receive it graciously.

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4 hours ago, culdeus said:

I haven't even felt compelled to even know what the last 10 best picture winner movies were even about, in situations where I did, most seemed outright garbage that if repackaged as a streaming show even at two-three episodes I'd never consider watching just on the high level previews.  

Does that make me less cultured?  Maybe.  Maybe the criteria that Netflix is/has created is superior than 21st Century or Spotlight or whatever.  

 

A lot the Best Picture winners are far from the best movies. I posted in the movie thread but both award shows and the general public aren't always great at determining what the best movies or music are. Often when we look back, the Grammy Best Album and the Top 10 Billboard songs of the year, highest grossing films or Oscar winners aren't the actual classics that stand the test of time. If you were looking for the best movies of the last 10 years, I wouldn't even bother looking at the Oscar list. 

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2 hours ago, identikit said:

I've determined that actors/actresses aren't nearly as smart and important as they think they are.

Or as a large cross-section of their audience think they are.

Their opinions carry very little, if any, weight with me (outside of their field: acting).

I know, this is all so  obvious.

Yet not practiced nearly enough.

 

Same with athletes and even successful business people. We as humans innately associate success or genius in one field with overall success or genius. I think sometimes it's actually the opposite. Someone like Tom Brady or Marlon Brando or Elon Musk may be so mentally plunged into their career/talent that they are actually pretty clueless about most other things. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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On 4/27/2021 at 9:52 PM, KarmaPolice said:

So on one hand I want to know more examples of what has specifically made you stop watching movies and made @Andy Dufresne sell of his movies.   

It's been death by a thousand cuts. Citing any one thing would evoke a (likely reasonable) response of "lighten up Francis". But accumulate them and it just reaches a breaking point.

Chris Evans' Captain America was terrific. I loved Winter Soldier. Until I heard Evans speaking words other than what was written for him by someone else. 

Actresses seemingly condemn ALL males under the umbrella of "toxic masculinity" but it was their own industry that enabled it worst - and they said little to nothing since they were getting a paycheck.  

Brie Larson was cited earlier - her turn at Captain Marvel was just strikingly unlikable. I'm just taken aback every time they show her Nissan commercials. Her recent musings don't help.

Elizabeth Banks makes a wretched movie in Charlie's Angels - and when it bombs she says it's about sexism.

The Last Jedi's Vice Admiral Holdo shoos Poe Dameron away with what amounts to "Take your penis out of here, the vaginas are in charge now." 

(I can just hear it now, someone accusing me of disliking strong women - but that would be ignoring how much I liked heroines like Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, and Diana Prince, to cite a few quick examples. And THEN someone would say "that sounds like saying 'some of my best friends are black'"...which is exactly what I'm talking about; you can't win - or even placate.)

And seemingly on and on...but you get the point. 

 

Conservative-ish Jimmy Stewart and liberal Henry Fonda had a lot of political disagreements yet somehow managed to remain friends (just an OTTOMH example). There's always been tension between the essentially bohimian/gypsy acting society and elements more conservative. But today there's outright derision and condescension of the acting class toward approximately half of the ticket buying public that I belong to. Which is particularly galling since the former is now part of the wealthy class as well. I just find myself saying more and more "#### you, you don't know me" to the famous blathering their nonsense on screen. I guess I just finally got exhausted by it and decided "what's the point of this if it just makes me angry?" So I've mostly quit. 

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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28 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

It's been death by a thousand cuts. Citing any one thing would evoke a (likely reasonable) response of "lighten up Francis". But accumulate them and it just reaches a breaking point.

Chris Evans' Captain America was terrific. I loved Winter Soldier. Until I heard Evans speaking words other than what was written for him by someone else. 

Actresses seemingly condemn ALL males under the umbrella of "toxic masculinity" but it was their own industry that enabled it worst - and they said little to nothing since they were getting a paycheck.  

Brie Larson was cited earlier - her turn at Captain Marvel was just strikingly unlikable. I'm just taken aback every time they show her Nissan commercials. Her recent musings don't help.

Elizabeth Banks makes a wretched movie in Charlie's Angels - and when it bombs she says it's about sexism.

The Last Jedi's Vice Admiral Holdo shoos Poe Dameron away with what amounts to "Take your penis out of here, the vaginas are in charge now." 

(I can just hear it now, someone accusing me of disliking strong women - but that would be ignoring how much I liked heroines like Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, and Diana Prince, to cite a few quick examples. And THEN someone would say "that sounds like saying 'some of my best friends are black'"...which is exactly what I'm talking about; you can't win - or even placate.)

And seemingly on and on...but you get the point. 

 

Conservative-ish Jimmy Stewart and liberal Henry Fonda had a lot of political disagreements yet somehow managed to remain friends (just an OTTOMH example). There's always been tension between the essentially bohimian/gypsy acting society and elements more conservative. But today there's outright derision and condescension of the acting class toward approximately half of the ticket buying public that I belong to. Which is particularly galling since the former is now part of the wealthy class as well. I just find myself saying more and more "#### you, you don't know me" to the famous blathering their nonsense on screen. I guess I just finally got exhausted by it and decided "what's the point of this if it just makes me angry?" So I've mostly quit. 

Perfect summation.

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I appreciate the response.  To me that still reads like you guys know and care way too much about what the politics of the actors and directors are and that is spilling over into the viewing.   I mean, how do know these actress' feelings about toxic masculinity? why Elizabeth Banks thinks her movie bombed?  that you think the acting class looks down on you?  

I watch a ton of movies, listen to too many pods, etc..   besides an occasional Oscar speech, I have 0 clue what you guys are talking about.  I guess that's why I bring up SM, etc. b/c I realize I am out of touch there vs the masses.  :shrug:

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20 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I appreciate the response.  To me that still reads like you guys know and care way too much about what the politics of the actors and directors are and that is spilling over into the viewing.   I mean, how do know these actress' feelings about toxic masculinity? why Elizabeth Banks thinks her movie bombed?  that you think the acting class looks down on you?  

I watch a ton of movies, listen to too many pods, etc..   besides an occasional Oscar speech, I have 0 clue what you guys are talking about.  I guess that's why I bring up SM, etc. b/c I realize I am out of touch there vs the masses.  :shrug:

 Because I read it. Not on social media (I don't use any) but through mass media.

And yeah, it's because of the attitude of the Hollywood Elite more than the content of the media. But then I don't like supporting d-bag athletes or politicians either. You can't wag your finger at me with one hand and then expect me to put a dollar in your other hand.

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good or bad, right or left, whatever or whatever - is there anything more unworthy than entitlement?!

don't matter if it's an actress who traded on her beauty to get to the top lecturing on feminism, guys whose daddy's 40-yr union job was the lone interruption of his family's bottomfeeding legacy arming himself to the teeth to defend the way it "always was and always should be", rappers who trade in perpetuating ugly stereotypes of their people fashioning themselves the voice of truth & deliverance or power brokers who see raw destiny in the standing which family money provided for them - preening, simpering stoopitness

it's all the same, so i top Andy and quit everything!

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47 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I appreciate the response.  To me that still reads like you guys know and care way too much about what the politics of the actors and directors are and that is spilling over into the viewing.   

Maybe if folks would keep their thoughts to themselves, and if folks would stop injecting ideology into movies where it doesn't belong (like Star Wars, for example), we would all be better off.  I'd really just as soon not know what actors, athletes, musicians, and other celebrities think about things.  

I like political movies.  Nobody ever accused Oliver Stone of subtlety, but films like Platoon and Wall Street are both overtly political and also have held their value wonderfully over the years.  I'm one of the few people who will admit to still liking American Beauty despite it being a little trite when it came out and a little cringey today.  Citizen Kane is heavily political.  And so on.  Those are all great because they have something to say and they make no pretense otherwise.  If you sit down to watch Crash, you know you're going to be presented with a particular POV and there should absolutely be lots of room for films like that.

To me, there's a sharp line between those sorts of films, and the modern practice of injecting politics into forms of escapism -- like sports, super hero movies, video games, and so on.  I'd like to have the option to unplug from that stuff while I watch something mindlessly entertaining, but the folks that AD mentions are all personally hell-bent on making sure I don't have possibility.  They can all get bent.  

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2 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

 Because I read it. Not on social media (I don't use any) but through mass media.

And yeah, it's because of the attitude of the Hollywood Elite more than the content of the media. But then I don't like supporting d-bag athletes or politicians either. You can't wag your finger at me with one hand and then expect me to put a dollar in your other hand.

Just curious - but like what?    Like I said, I feel like I injest more movie crap than the normal person, but don't get this stuff.  

I admit to maybe being in the minority, but d-bag actors, athletes, etc.  don't bother me a ton - at least not enough to not watch a movie.  IMO too many people participate in the creation of this, so I don't give much consideration to Larson's politics, Cruise's religion, the Affleck brothers' pasts, etc, etc.   T

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2 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Maybe if folks would keep their thoughts to themselves, and if folks would stop injecting ideology into movies where it doesn't belong (like Star Wars, for example), we would all be better off.  I'd really just as soon not know what actors, athletes, musicians, and other celebrities think about things.  

I like political movies.  Nobody ever accused Oliver Stone of subtlety, but films like Platoon and Wall Street are both overtly political and also have held their value wonderfully over the years.  I'm one of the few people who will admit to still liking American Beauty despite it being a little trite when it came out and a little cringey today.  Citizen Kane is heavily political.  And so on.  Those are all great because they have something to say and they make no pretense otherwise.  If you sit down to watch Crash, you know you're going to be presented with a particular POV and there should absolutely be lots of room for films like that.

To me, there's a sharp line between those sorts of films, and the modern practice of injecting politics into forms of escapism -- like sports, super hero movies, video games, and so on.  I'd like to have the option to unplug from that stuff while I watch something mindlessly entertaining, but the folks that AD mentions are all personally hell-bent on making sure I don't have possibility.  They can all get bent.  

Crash is it's own elite tier and Paul Haggis should spend the rest of his days trying to make amends for subjecting the world to that film.

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2 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Maybe if folks would keep their thoughts to themselves, and if folks would stop injecting ideology into movies where it doesn't belong (like Star Wars, for example), we would all be better off.  I'd really just as soon not know what actors, athletes, musicians, and other celebrities think about things.  

I like political movies.  Nobody ever accused Oliver Stone of subtlety, but films like Platoon and Wall Street are both overtly political and also have held their value wonderfully over the years.  I'm one of the few people who will admit to still liking American Beauty despite it being a little trite when it came out and a little cringey today.  Citizen Kane is heavily political.  And so on.  Those are all great because they have something to say and they make no pretense otherwise.  If you sit down to watch Crash, you know you're going to be presented with a particular POV and there should absolutely be lots of room for films like that.

To me, there's a sharp line between those sorts of films, and the modern practice of injecting politics into forms of escapism -- like sports, super hero movies, video games, and so on.  I'd like to have the option to unplug from that stuff while I watch something mindlessly entertaining, but the folks that AD mentions are all personally hell-bent on making sure I don't have possibility.  They can all get bent.  

Like I said, I am still struggling with examples of what you guys are talking about with this bolded.   I admit, I only saw the new ones once and stuff is blurry.   Seems like most of Andy's examples are more about the people IRL than something that was "injected into a movie"  I guess I am telling you guys that do have the option to not know what those people think about things IRL.  ;)    

Seems like the main beef is with Marvel/SW, or franchise/blockbuster types, right?  

This goes both ways for me just to be clear.  I find it odd all the comments during podcasts about how people can't watch movies from the past because of X/Y/Z -  and people view things in a 2020 lens too much and can't enjoy and old movie for what it was.  

 

 

 

 

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