Please don’t call undocumented people “illegal immigrants”

[bigbottom]

2 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Even if I chose to call them undocumented, that does not change the statement. Their entire existence here is illegal

Their entire existence here isn’t illegal. It’s simply their physical presence within our borders that is illegal. Semantics perhaps, but what Tim is suggesting is that semantics matter. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by bigbottom

[FairWarning]

5 hours ago, timschochet said:

And this is simply not true: in fact, it’s the opposite of true. Every study that has been done on this subject strongly suggests that the vast majority of undocumented immigrants are in fact more law abiding than your average citizen. 

There are studies that our cities would be one big group hug if we defund the police also.  

Bottom line - you can find a study for most anything.

[Summer Wheat]

9 hours ago, timschochet said:

And this is simply not true: in fact, it’s the opposite of true. Every study that has been done on this subject strongly suggests that the vast majority of undocumented immigrants are in fact more law abiding than your average citizen. 

This is very true.  My wife has some family that is here illegally.  They keep in line because of the "Fear factor" of being deported if they get caught doing something.

[BassNBrew]

@timschochet I suspect that at least some of this criminal immigrants have a Tax ID number or access to someone that does.  We have the non-criminal immigrant fill out a W9 and get them connected with our insurance guy who hooks them up with insurance for about $350 a year.  After that I'm able to sit in my office and send them work over a phone rather than wasting time hitting up the local Home Depot parking lot.  They then text us an invoice and we mail them a check.  Works out pretty well for us and they get repeat business and help integrating in society.

[timschochet]

2 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

@timschochet I suspect that at least some of this criminal immigrants have a Tax ID number or access to someone that does.  We have the non-criminal immigrant fill out a W9 and get them connected with our insurance guy who hooks them up with insurance for about $350 a year.  After that I'm able to sit in my office and send them work over a phone rather than wasting time hitting up the local Home Depot parking lot.  They then text us an invoice and we mail them a check.  Works out pretty well for us and they get repeat business and help integrating in society.

I’d be happy to do that if the work I needed wasn’t so temporary: usually no more than 30 minutes of labor. 
 

Also, “criminal immigrants” really isn’t an improvement, but thanks for trying, 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Many are documented - including some with crimes and prison time. Many are not workers. Seems like "undocumented worker" is the dishonest phrase to me. Please don't call illegal immigrants "undocumented workers".

[BassNBrew]

3 hours ago, timschochet said:

I’d be happy to do that if the work I needed wasn’t so temporary: usually no more than 30 minutes of labor. 
 

Also, “criminal immigrants” really isn’t an improvement, but thanks for trying, 

You really should hop into the modern era and give the criminal trespassers and immigrants more credit. If I’ve got a 30 minute job I knock out a work order on my phone and email it to them. They do the work and text or email me an invoice and oic of the completed job. I push a couple of buttons and for the cost of 80 cents a company prints a check and mails it to them stamp included.  cheaper than the gas to drive to Home Depot and allows more time to post on FBGguys

[BassNBrew]

And you were the one that said they had committed a crime and were immigrants. I just put the two words together and honored your request not to call them illegal 

[jon_mx]

Legally impaired immigrants. 

[Joe Schmo]

Earthbound nomads has a good ring to it and encompasses the macro aspect

[Joe Schmo]

Unwashed peasants of the untoward other-world also makes sense

[Joe Schmo]

Potentially Good Enough For Us or pgeu for short

[timschochet]

“Undocumented” will so just fine. These other attempts at mockery are in in poor taste and pretty shameful. 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Attempts?

[djmich]

Communities Seeking Documentation

[jon_mx]

Document-impaired immigrants

[jon_mx]

Liberals:  "You bigot!"...."You White Nationalist!"....."You Denier!"....."You homophobe!"....."You oppressor!"....."Shut your white-privilege butt up!" ....   "Hey, it's mean to call immigrants illegal!"

Give me a break.  

[bigbottom]

3 hours ago, timschochet said:

“Undocumented” will so just fine. These other attempts at mockery are in in poor taste and pretty shameful. 

Why?  I think it’s clear they’re mocking the thread topic, not the people themselves. 

[bigbottom]

4 hours ago, jon_mx said:

Legally impaired immigrants. 

This has a nice ring to it actually. 

[timschochet]

2 hours ago, bigbottom said:

Why?  I think it’s clear they’re mocking the thread topic, not the people themselves. 

Could be I suppose. But personally I find it in poor taste and shameful to mock me, so...

[BladeRunner]

How about "illegal immigrants"?  That has a nice ring to it as well. 

[Joe Schmo]

9 hours ago, timschochet said:

Could be I suppose. But personally I find it in poor taste and shameful to mock me, so...

Love ya buddy but no one here is above a little mocking now and then. We all step in it once in awhile and with your proliferation you're bound to get more than most.

Now if you'll forgive me I must shamefully admit that I will be offline the rest of the day and will not be able to continue any conversation with you and so I bid you adieu for now

[jamny]

On 4/30/2021 at 10:58 PM, timschochet said:

If you’ve read this thread then you’ve read @McBokonon’s post. He works with undocumented immigrants and he says that they feel dehumanized because they are called “illegals”. Why do you doubt this? 

There's a pretty simple way to prevent feeling dehumanized by being called an illegal immigrant.

Don't come here illegally.

If you do come here illegally, accept the personal choice you made and all that comes with it.  

[JerryG]

18 hours ago, timschochet said:

“Undocumented” will so just fine. These other attempts at mockery are in in poor taste and pretty shameful. 

Sorry but it won’t.  As I believe others have pointed out, “undocumented” implies that they could be here legally but they just don’t have the proper documentation.  That is not the population we are attempting to describe.

I’ll concede that “illegal” as a noun is in poor taste, but as an adjective which modifies the noun “immigrant” it is completely accurate.  Words have meaning, or so I hear from my liberal friends.

[timschochet]

9 minutes ago, JerryG said:

 

I’ll concede that “illegal” as a noun is in poor taste, 

Hey I will accept this concession with gratitude. If everyone was willing to agree to this that would be a real improvement. 

[JerryG]

1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Hey I will accept this concession with gratitude. If everyone was willing to agree to this that would be a real improvement. 

When I was a young, ignorant parent (as opposed to now when I am an old, ignorant parent) I once read that you should focus on your child’s behaviors vs. labeling them as a person.  For instance, “You made a poor choice” vs. “you are an idiot.”  I try to extend that philosophy to life in general.

[BladeRunner]

4 hours ago, jamny said:

There's a pretty simple way to prevent feeling dehumanized by being called an illegal immigrant.

Don't come here illegally.

If you do come here illegally, accept the personal choice you made and all that comes with it.  

Yep.  Too bad, so sad.  Aren't we always told choices have consequences?  Or is that only if you're an actual American citizen?

I don't give two beans about the feelings of some illegal immigrant.  Not only did you come here illegally, you skipped the line and went straight to the top because you pled some BS and shed some tears.  

Doesn't anyone care about the actual immigrants that are waiting in line to get in?  What about them?  Why do they still have to wait?

[NorvilleBarnes]

The high horse moral virtue signaling is pretty awesome on its own. But coming a form someone who actually exploits the cheap labor is just  (chefs kiss) perfection.

[jon_mx]

On 4/30/2021 at 12:42 AM, timschochet said:

Someone who comes here illegally has committed a crime (albeit a minor one.) That doesn’t make them an illegal person.

Minor?  It carries up to a six months prison sentence and if you were denied entry before or deported it then is a felony.  

[Opie]

On 5/1/2021 at 11:18 PM, timschochet said:

Could be I suppose. But personally I find it in poor taste and shameful to mock me, so...

sigh...

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Opie

[Opie]

The Biden administration created them....I guess that it is only right that they get to name them.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Opie

[Stealthycat]

if 80% of illegals coming to the USA were voting Republican - Democrats would shut the border down FAST

 

 

[shadrap]

5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

if 80% of illegals coming to the USA were voting Republican - Democrats would shut the border down FAST

 

 

yea, we are way past the point of what is good for America.

[Stealthycat]

3 minutes ago, shadrap said:

yea, we are way past the point of what is good for America.

its political agenda 

[bigbottom]

3 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

if 80% of illegals coming to the USA were voting Republican - Democrats would shut the border down FAST

 

 

Don’t most Cubans vote Republican?  I don’t see Democrats opposing Cuban immigration. Also, since “legally impaired immigrants” can’t vote, are you talking about the next generation?

Edited May 3, 2021 by bigbottom

[parasaurolophus]

6 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

Don’t most Cubans vote Republican?  I don’t see Democrats opposing Cuban immigration. Also, since “legally impaired immigrants” can’t vote, are you talking about the next generation?

 

If Democrats opposed cubans but supported the other stuff that would be pretty obvious dont you think? I mean they arent that dumb, right? 

[Stealthycat]

35 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

Don’t most Cubans vote Republican?  I don’t see Democrats opposing Cuban immigration. Also, since “legally impaired immigrants” can’t vote, are you talking about the next generation?

are Cubans pouring across the Mexican border?

I did just read its a 58% identifier of Cuban's leaning GOP ..... but has Biden changed the laws on Cuban illegal immigrations? 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

41 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

 since “legally impaired immigrants” can’t vote

You are just adorable.

[NorvilleBarnes]

47 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

Don’t most Cubans vote Republican?

Most are here legally. There are also some Mexican immigrants here legally who harbor a measure of resentment towards those who bypassed the legal process they followed themselves.

[ekbeats]

On 5/2/2021 at 11:40 AM, jamny said:

There's a pretty simple way to prevent feeling dehumanized by being called an illegal immigrant.

Don't come here illegally.

If you do come here illegally, accept the personal choice you made and all that comes with it.  

Exactly.  Wait in line just like everyone else. 

[timschochet]

5 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

There are also some Mexican immigrants here legally who harbor a measure of resentment towards those who bypassed the legal process they followed themselves.

Yes some feel that way. Most don’t. It’s an irrational attitude, given that for the vast majority who arrive here without papers, there is no available legal process to bypass. 
 

I know you guys like to pretend that there’s some huge line of people waiting to get in here, and that undocumented people simply chose to jump to the front of the line rather than waiting their turn, but this has no resemblance to what’s actually happening. 

[ekbeats]

59 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

Also, since “legally impaired immigrants” can’t vote, are you talking about the next generation?

Unless you’re in San Francisco.

[timschochet]

3 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

Exactly.  Wait in line just like everyone else. 

And again- there is no line: 

For the vast majority of those who come here without papers- if they waited for papers, they would be waiting the rest of their lives. 

[ekbeats]

1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Yes some feel that way. Most don’t. It’s an irrational attitude, given that for the vast majority who arrive here without papers, there is no available legal process to bypass. 
 

I know you guys like to pretend that there’s some huge line of people waiting to get in here, and that undocumented people simply chose to jump to the front of the line rather than waiting their turn, but this has no resemblance to what’s actually happening. 

Oh we don’t have a legal immigration process with limited numbers?  You think those numbers aren’t affected by the number of illegals coming in?

[timschochet]

2 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

Unless you’re in San Francisco.

What are you referring to? 

[timschochet]

Just now, ekbeats said:

Oh we don’t have a legal immigration process with limited numbers?  You think those numbers aren’t affected by the number of illegals coming in?

We do. But that process has no bearing for most of the people who come here without papers. They have no means to apply for a visa and “get in line.” There is no line. 

[ekbeats]

1 minute ago, timschochet said:

What are you referring to? 

That illegals can vote in San Francisco.

[timschochet]

Just now, ekbeats said:

That illegals can vote in San Francisco.

1. There is no such creature as an “illegal”. 
2. Please provide evidence that undocumented immigrants are allowed to vote in the city of San Francisco. 

[ekbeats]

1 minute ago, timschochet said:

We do. But that process has no bearing for most of the people who come here without papers. They have no means to apply for a visa and “get in line.” There is no line. 

That’s completely false.  Anyone, anywhere in the world can apply for a US Visa.  You know this.

[Nugget]

1 minute ago, timschochet said:

1. There is no such creature as an “illegal”. 
2. Please provide evidence that undocumented immigrants are allowed to vote in the city of San Francisco. 

They can vote in local elections like school boards