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Please don’t call undocumented people “illegal immigrants” (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
identikit
Footballguy
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Nugget
Footballguy
They will if we give them a path to citizenship. They will also pay more in taxes once they can be hired legally. Win Win.
Nothing about illegal immigration makes sense to me. I don’t know what makes you and other Liberals think you can choose which laws to follow. Civilization is built in rule of law. When that breaks down it leads to a very bad place.
timschochet
Footballguy
I am in favor of a path to citizenship. But I want it to be a long path.
Personally I don’t believe that anyone who came here without papers should ever be allowed to vote in our elections (I don’t care about school board.)
What are you talking about? Liberals have been pushing amnesty for years. And they won’t stop. I’m going to start calling you Baghdad Bob. You’ve crossed the line into pure propaganda.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
According to the article you linked, nearly one third of all school children in San Francisco have parents who are undocumented.
Perhaps you don’t like this. Perhaps you would like to see these parents deported, and the children with them (although no doubt many of those same children were born here.). But that’s not the reality of the situation as it stands. Those children’s parents ought to have some representation in deciding the school board members.
You just said that illegal aliens will never vote. And then a post later you said that you support a pathway to citizenship. It’s just one lie after another coming from your mouth. Who do you think you’re fooling here?
And how big a leap is it to say that they should also have representation at the state and federal level? It’s called a slippery slope. You know it well. Let them all in and eventually we’ll have to start treating them like citizens.
timschochet
Footballguy
If and when undocumented immigrants are given a path to citizenship, it will be a long time before they are actually given citizenship, even under the most liberal of current proposals.
Once they are given citizenship, if we can follow voting trends for those in similar economic strata to the vast majority of undocumented immigrants, we can safely predict that only a small minority will choose to actually vote. Of those that do, some will vote Republican.
Therefore this whole meme about how Democrats are pushing this issue to provide them with a bunch of new voters is total BS.
Once they are given citizenship, if we can follow voting trends for those in similar economic strata to the vast majority of undocumented immigrants, we can safely predict that only a small minority will choose to actually vote. Of those that do, some will vote Republican.
Therefore this whole meme about how Democrats are pushing this issue to provide them with a bunch of new voters is total BS.
timschochet
Footballguy
I wrote that almost none of them will ever vote. I’m confident this is the case. How have I lied?
timschochet
Footballguy
There have been studies showing that illegals do vote - today. It’s not that hard, and it’s getting easier and easier as Democrats loosen up the voting laws.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you saying that the flood of illegals coming in are highly educated? That’s a joke.
timschochet
Footballguy
Now you’re raising a completely separate issue. We were discussing undocumented immigration. Now you’re discussing ALL immigration. I’m perfectly happy to have this new discussion with you (and indeed it’s always been my contention that many conservatives who complain about “illegal immigration” would really like to do away with almost ALL immigration) but you’ll have to decide which one you wish to discuss.
timschochet
Footballguy
What studies do you have that show that undocumented people vote today? And please try to avoid quoting a hate group like FAIR- I mean legitimate studies?
I would like to see those studies - and see how someone determined undocumented people were voting.
timschochet
Footballguy
He’s all over the place. The only consistent thing is that he doesn’t seem to want them here.You just said they were coming here for great schools and healthcare.
I don’t know one single Republican who wants to do away with all immigration. That’s a left-wing bogeyman. We allow roughly 650k legal immigrants into the country each year. I have no issue at all with that. It’s necessary and it benefits the country. It’s the illegal immigration that I have a problem with.
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? You liberals view anyone who has conservative views on immigration as Nazis. Yet they are the only ones willing to conduct research on the subject. It’s a perfect little way for you to avoid dealing with realities you don’t like.
Nope. I want immigration, but I want it to be legal and thoughtful. You Liberals want illegal immigration without any thoughtful consideration. That’s just fact. You’re the party of anarchy. Just own it. I’d actually respect it more.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
There's no documentation of these people at all? That seems demeaning to refer to them this way
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
It appears the gap in perspective here has to do with the low value you please on citizenship/residence in the United States.
Illegal Immigrants are stealing residence in America... this is not up for debate.
I personally think residence in America is worth more than $500-1000, which would put it in the same tier as Grand Theft.
I don't consider Grand Theft a minor crime,.. but I guess we're at least figuring out the value you place on being an American.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
jm192
Footballguy
No one is saying the person's is illegal. They immigrated here. They did so illegally.
We're not calling them an illegal person. We're calling them an illegal immigrant. Because when they immigrated--they did so illegally.
If I called them an illegal person--your argument would make sense. But I'm not, so...continue on Tim.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Wtf does calling them an illegal person even mean?
Omg you cant call them an illegal person! doesnt even make sense. its not even a thing.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
So it looks like it's pretty much been decided:
- "illegal immigrant" is a proper and apt name for foreigners who come here illegally.
- No one is against LEGAL immigration except Democrats.
- The people who have to apply and wait to get in (and pay) - and yet are skipped in favor of "illegal immigrants" - are the actual immigrants that are being unfairly treated.
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Depends, are they going to turn around and dump the couch illegally on someone else's property?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
You missed: it's fun to pretend like you don't understand common figures of speech like "get in line" or "cut in line" to deflect from not having an actual argument on the issue.
jm192
Footballguy
I think a lot of people say if you disagree with part of my premise, you hate the entire subject. So Tim thinks if you don't approve of illegal immigrants coming here--ya know--illegally--then you're a xenophobe who hates people from other countries.
It's possible to just think we should enforce our borders and only allow legal immigration.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
I can guarantee you that every other country in the world enforces THEIR borders. But the USA shouldn't for some reason.
Try crossing into N.Korea, Cuba, Russia, China, hell, even Mexico and see what happens.
E Street Brat
Footballguy
What you mean is this.
"If I can control the language then I will win the argument"
It's the very foundation and why political correctness and cancel culture exist. It has nothing to do with empathy for the people claiming to be protected. It's all about the win,
jm192
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
But it has to be more than just a legal/illegal distinction, right? Because otherwise, we could just decide to have open borders and then all immigration would be legal.
Thats actually an interesting paper.
But, it does not support your conclusion that: "There have been studies showing that illegals do vote - today."
"It is possible that some respondents were without any documentation whatsoever (popularly called “illegal aliens”), though this cannot be confirmed or rejected with the information available as no respondent specifically self-identified themselves as illegal or undocumented (but many did not specifically identify themselves as having permanent resident status)."
Also of note: "Our results also suggest that photo-identification requirements are unlikely to be effective
at preventing electoral participation by non-citizen immigrants: In 2008, more than two thirds of
non-citizen immigrants who indicated that they were asked to show photo-identification reported that they went on to cast a vote."
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