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The Grim Secret of Nordic Happiness (1 Viewer)

The Law Of Jante is a pretty good summation of the typical nordic mindset.

  1. "You're not to think you are anything special.
  2. You're not to think you are as good as we are.
  3. You're not to think you are smarter than we are.
  4. You're not to imagine yourself better than we are.
  5. You're not to think you know more than we do.
  6. You're not to think you are more important than we are.
  7. You're not to think you are good at anything.
  8. You're not to laugh at us.
  9. You're not to think anyone cares about you.
  10. You're not to think you can teach us anything.
The Janters who transgress this unwritten 'law' are regarded with suspicion and some hostility, as it goes against the town's communal desire to preserve harmony, social stability, and uniformity."

 
Joe Bryant said:
The Grim Secret of Nordic Happiness

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/04/finland-happiness-lagom-hygge.html

This is one of the reasons I never put too much stock in the "Your _________ is terrible and mine is awesome" stuff. 

How one measures and polls can have a huge impact. 

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
From the article:

As reported by a correspondent for the Economist, when a Cabinet member of the Finnish government was introduced at an international conference as “the representative of the happiest country in the world,” he responded: “If that’s true, I’d hate to see the other nations.”

I have a number of close friends from Scandinavia.   Mostly Norwegian and Swedish, but also one guy from Finland.   The article does a good job of illustrating how expectations management is a key part of the equation.  But also.....it's a fairly equal society in terms of wealth distribution.   My closest friend of the group lives in Norway, and he talks about how it's considered basically impolite to flaunt wealth, particularly newer wealth.   The Finnish guy mostly concurs with that sentiment.   I wonder how much of the discontent in the US is really just driven by comparisons......you can almost always point to someone with massively more wealth than you, particularly if you pay attention to social media and brutally bad "lifestyle" TV shows.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
From the article:

As reported by a correspondent for the Economist, when a Cabinet member of the Finnish government was introduced at an international conference as “the representative of the happiest country in the world,” he responded: “If that’s true, I’d hate to see the other nations.”

I have a number of close friends from Scandinavia.   Mostly Norwegian and Swedish, but also one guy from Finland.   The article does a good job of illustrating how expectations management is a key part of the equation.  But also.....it's a fairly equal society in terms of wealth distribution.   My closest friend of the group lives in Norway, and he talks about how it's considered basically impolite to flaunt wealth, particularly newer wealth.   The Finnish guy mostly concurs with that sentiment.   I wonder how much of the discontent in the US is really just driven by comparisons......you can almost always point to someone with massively more wealth than you, particularly if you pay attention to social media and brutally bad "lifestyle" TV shows.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Makes sense. 

Always a good thing to try and dig a bit deeper into how something like this is measured. And why the results are what they are. Interesting. 

 
Alex P Keaton said:
From the article:

As reported by a correspondent for the Economist, when a Cabinet member of the Finnish government was introduced at an international conference as “the representative of the happiest country in the world,” he responded: “If that’s true, I’d hate to see the other nations.”

I have a number of close friends from Scandinavia.   Mostly Norwegian and Swedish, but also one guy from Finland.   The article does a good job of illustrating how expectations management is a key part of the equation.  But also.....it's a fairly equal society in terms of wealth distribution.   My closest friend of the group lives in Norway, and he talks about how it's considered basically impolite to flaunt wealth, particularly newer wealth.   The Finnish guy mostly concurs with that sentiment.   I wonder how much of the discontent in the US is really just driven by comparisons......you can almost always point to someone with massively more wealth than you, particularly if you pay attention to social media and brutally bad "lifestyle" TV shows.
Click to expand...
And they don't have to worry about the basic things.

I'm convinced it's the back ground level of anxiety that makes happiness and when there is a calmness, a collectiveness and a general sense of feeling safe it goes a long way

Of course here is borderline insane.  I go to the grocery store prepared to hide my kid in case there is a shootout 

 
First, I get the conversation may turn political but would prefer to have this in the FFA and not PSF which will probably ensure it will turn political.

Anyway, really odd timing on this as I thought about starting a thread in the FFA around asking folks how good their life is.  I was sitting around this weekend and just being grateful for what I have.  I think it's fairly safe to say that most would consider my life (comparatively) to be very high on a scale of 10 - almost definitely a 9 or 10.  But I wasn't addressing the question of, am I happy - just whether my day to day life is good.  Other than the fact that I still have to work for the man, just about everything else is fantastic.  And that does make me happy - but I always note that the times I'm most happy are when I'm interacting with others - family, friends, neighbors, helping others, my dogs.  Life wasn't meant to be lived alone or in isolation.  Making bonds and personal interactions with people are what make me happy - not the things I have.

 
I tend to agree with the Scandinavians. Happiness is essentially the difference between your reality and your expectations. It might seem sad, but at some point people need to accept that they are not going to be the president or the next Elon Musk. Comparing yourself to other people is only going to set yourself up for failure and unhappiness. You should still set goals to try to improve yourself and your situation, but having unrealistic expectations is just going to make you unhappy in the long run. That's my theory anyway, but I am certainly no expert. 

 
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Joe Bryant said:
The Grim Secret of Nordic Happiness

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/04/finland-happiness-lagom-hygge.html

This is one of the reasons I never put too much stock in the "Your _________ is terrible and mine is awesome" stuff. 

How one measures and polls can have a huge impact. 

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I think this is a fine line.  Being content with where you are is a very good thing.  Having no hope that things can improve is a bad thing.

I've never bought into the idea that the Nordic countries are some ideal we should strive for.  They have societal advantages in that they are mostly homogeneous populations without any real immigration pressure.

 
AAABatteries said:
First, I get the conversation may turn political but would prefer to have this in the FFA and not PSF which will probably ensure it will turn political.

Anyway, really odd timing on this as I thought about starting a thread in the FFA around asking folks how good their life is.  I was sitting around this weekend and just being grateful for what I have.  I think it's fairly safe to say that most would consider my life (comparatively) to be very high on a scale of 10 - almost definitely a 9 or 10.  But I wasn't addressing the question of, am I happy - just whether my day to day life is good.  Other than the fact that I still have to work for the man, just about everything else is fantastic.  And that does make me happy - but I always note that the times I'm most happy are when I'm interacting with others - family, friends, neighbors, helping others, my dogs.  Life wasn't meant to be lived alone or in isolation.  Making bonds and personal interactions with people are what make me happy - not the things I have.
Click to expand...
Yes, I started this in FFA and realized it would instantly turn political and tried to save myself the headache and just started with it here. 

 
tymarsas said:
Happiness is essentially the difference between your reality and your expectations.
Click to expand...
I realize this was the gist of the article but I love how succinctly you’ve put this here and honestly I find it to be very profound.  I plan to give this more thought but this seems like it could be a wonderful idea to dig in to - almost book worthy as a premise.  

 
AAABatteries said:
I realize this was the gist of the article but I love how succinctly you’ve put this here and honestly I find it to be very profound.  I plan to give this more thought but this seems like it could be a wonderful idea to dig in to - almost book worthy as a premise.  
Click to expand...
I wish I could take credit for it, but I read it in an article about 5-7 years ago and it has stuck with me ever since. I agree that it is very simple and profound, which is probably why it has stuck with me.

 
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Jayrod said:
I think this is a fine line.  Being content with where you are is a very good thing.  Having no hope that things can improve is a bad thing.

I've never bought into the idea that the Nordic countries are some ideal we should strive for.  They have societal advantages in that they are mostly homogeneous populations without any real immigration pressure.
Click to expand...
The bold is not true at all. Both Sweden and Norway have higher immigration rates that the US. Denmark is about the same. Only Finland is much lower.

 
tymarsas said:
I wish I could take credit for it, but I read it in an article about 5-7 years ago and it has stuck with me ever since. I agree that it is very simple and profound, which is probably why it has stuck with me.
Click to expand...
I forget where I first read that quote, but it immediately stuck with me as well. I started seeing that concept everywhere, in my own life and in other people's lives. A lot of unhappiness could be traced back to unrealistic expectations. It led me to try and temper my expectations a bit, but it's a difficult balance to strike. Hope for a better future is a large part of what keeps me going, so lowering expectations for the future might make me happier tomorrow but less happy today. 

 
Desert_Power said:
The bold is not true at all. Both Sweden and Norway have higher immigration rates that the US. Denmark is about the same. Only Finland is much lower.
Click to expand...
I said "pressure", not rates.

First of all, rates are per capita, not total numbers.  With 350 million people, our rates are quite high.   Also, the US isn't "letting" as many immigrants in as are actually coming.  Saying that rates tell the whole picture of immigration is like saying mental hospital admissions tells the whole story of mental health.

There aren't a lot of people taking boats across the Gulf of Finland from Estonia or walking across the border from Russia.

Nordic countries have the convenience of doing immigration the right way.

 
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A good example of this same principal is also Bhutan.  They are a fairly poor country with very high "happiness" rankings.

 
 Isn't part of the very definition of "happy" being "content"?  As oppose to chasing "pleasure" in the false belief that they are the same?    And I would suspect those that embrace "grace" in the way that Lutherans do are going to be more or less content.  And I think that one can "dream big" and still be content with where they are at in life.  That is you can pursue lofty goals for reasons other than keeping op with the Jones's.  ETA:  You know its the journey that matters.

 
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tymarsas said:
Happiness is essentially the difference between your reality and your expectations.
Click to expand...
There's a scene in (500) Days of Summer when Joseph Gordon-Levitt attends a party and has a lousy time. There's a split screen, with the left half showing what he hoped would happen and the right half showing what actually happened. What actually happened could have been perfectly enjoyable if it didn't have to compete against his quixotic expectations.

That scene stuck with me, and your quote captures its substance..

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Why do Americans want stuff so badly that it makes them unhappy?
Click to expand...
Because we're taught at an early age and reinforced by most of pop culture that the only path to happiness is accumulating dollars or an equivalent. Not only that, if you don't pursue this goal you very well may not have food, shelter and medical care.  It's something that can be understood since we were children. 

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
There's a scene in (500) Days of Summer when Joseph Gordon-Levitt attends a party and has a lousy time. There's a split screen, with the left half showing what he hoped would happen and the right half showing what actually happened. What actually happened could have been perfectly enjoyable if it didn't have to compete against his quixotic expectations.

That scene stuck with me, and your quote captures its substance..
Click to expand...
Really enjoyed that movie a lot.   Definitely remember that scene.  Perfect example of what is at play here.

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
Because we're taught at an early age and reinforced by most of pop culture that the only path to happiness is accumulating dollars or an equivalent. Not only that, if you don't pursue this goal you very well may not have food, shelter and medical care.  It's something that can be understood since we were children. 
Click to expand...
Speak for yourself.  :shrug:

Sounds like you may have a beef with your parents, not America.

 
BladeRunner said:
Speak for yourself.  :shrug:

Sounds like you may have a beef with your parents, not America.
Click to expand...
No, my parents have always let me choose my own path.   They don't care about material things. Never have.  That's a pretty horrible leap to make.  

My post was about Americans, generally speaking, that worships the rich no matter how they behave.  Athletes, actors, reality stars, politicians and anyone in the public eye falls into this category.  They could be the worst amongst us but because they are fabulously wealthy, they are cheered and celebrated. 

The only exception is after 911 where every police officer, fire person and enlisted person in the military was elevated to HERO.  Some are, many more are not. They deserve to be treated with respect but I feel that almost every person from every walk of life deserves respect. 

ETA

In my ideal country, the BEST teachers, medical personnel, social workers and others devoted to helping as many as they can, would be who deserves this kind of worship.  It should be on merit though. 

 
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2Squirrels1Nut said:
No, my parents have always let me choose my own path.   They don't care about material things. Never have.  That's a pretty horrible leap to make.  

My post was about Americans, generally speaking, that worships the rich no matter how they behave.  Athletes, actors, reality stars, politicians and anyone in the public eye falls into this category.  They could be the worst amongst us but because they are fabulously wealthy, they are cheered and celebrated. 

The only exception is after 911 where every police officer, fire person and enlisted person in the military was elevated to HERO.  Some are, many more are not. They deserve to be treated with respect but I feel that almost every person from every walk of life deserves respect. 

ETA

In my ideal country, the BEST teachers, medical personnel, social workers and others devoted to helping as many as they can, would be who deserves this kind of worship.  It should be on merit though. 
Click to expand...
Not only do we worship the rich but we degrade teachers, nurses and those just out there making a living

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Why do Americans want stuff so badly that it makes them unhappy?
Click to expand...
One of the things that was most eye-opening to me when I moved into administration was realizing just how much people care about their salaries.  I don't mean that people care whether they make $50K vs. $100K -- I completely get that -- but that they get worked up over trivial differences.  Several years ago, I had a guy in my office who was absolutely apoplectic over not getting a $250 merit raise that year.  He was earning around $110K at the time.  Also, I happened to know that his wife was earning a similar salary and they have no kids.  I was tempted to write the guy a personal check for $250 just to help him get a little perspective, but the truth is that I'm the weird one in this situation.  This kind of quibbling is completely normal every year when our contracts come out.  

If there was some way to magically impart upon people the ability to just be happy with their lot in life once they get to a certain level of material comfort, like the sort enjoyed by everybody with a six-figure household income -- that would go a long way toward making society a better place.

 
killface said:
Not only do we worship the rich but we degrade teachers, nurses and those just out there making a living
Click to expand...
Great post but sad but true.  I think things are changing some.  When I was growing up if a young person, particularly someone of above average intelligence, were to declare they were going to be a teacher, it was almost always met with a comment like "why are you throwing your life away?!". 

IvanKaramazov said:
You should probably stop doing that.
Click to expand...
As someone married to a RN, I see what you did there GB.  ;)

 
i fear there will never be too many occasions where posting MLK's Drum Major Instinct speech is the most appropriate way to address the American psyche. there's about 4 minutes of sermony stuff before he gets to the point but, once he does....our mail got read a loooong time ago.

text 

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
One of the things that was most eye-opening to me when I moved into administration was realizing just how much people care about their salaries.  I don't mean that people care whether they make $50K vs. $100K -- I completely get that -- but that they get worked up over trivial differences.  Several years ago, I had a guy in my office who was absolutely apoplectic over not getting a $250 merit raise that year.  He was earning around $110K at the time.  Also, I happened to know that his wife was earning a similar salary and they have no kids.  I was tempted to write the guy a personal check for $250 just to help him get a little perspective, but the truth is that I'm the weird one in this situation.  This kind of quibbling is completely normal every year when our contracts come out.  

If there was some way to magically impart upon people the ability to just be happy with their lot in life once they get to a certain level of material comfort, like the sort enjoyed by everybody with a six-figure household income -- that would go a long way toward making society a better place.
Click to expand...
Did he think others got it but not him? I've seen that more times than I can count.

 
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killface said:
Not only do we worship the rich but we degrade teachers, nurses and those just out there making a living
Click to expand...
The only people I know that do that are on the left.  I mean, they're constantly quoting every Hollywood celebrity, Tech mogul and rich guy they can find.

No one is degrading nurses and anyone out to make a living as well.   In fact, it's YOUR side that's constantly talking about how uneducated, racist and dumb (especially if they didn't go to college) people in fly-over country are.

Teachers - you got me there.   But that's because of the teacher's unions, not because of the teachers themselves.

So, yeah, you're 99% wrong on your post.

 
BladeRunner said:
The only people I know that do that are on the left.  I mean, they're constantly quoting every Hollywood celebrity, Tech mogul and rich guy they can find.

No one is degrading nurses and anyone out to make a living as well.   In fact, it's YOUR side that's constantly talking about how uneducated, racist and dumb (especially if they didn't go to college) people in fly-over country are.

Teachers - you got me there.   But that's because of the teacher's unions, not because of the teachers themselves.

So, yeah, you're 99% wrong on your post.
Click to expand...
Can you go three seconds without being a cheerleader?

This was not a right/left discussion until you insert yourself

 
BladeRunner said:
killface said:
Not only do we worship the rich but we degrade teachers, nurses and those just out there making a living
Click to expand...
The only people I know that do that are on the left.  I mean, they're constantly quoting every Hollywood celebrity, Tech mogul and rich guy they can find.

No one is degrading nurses and anyone out to make a living as well.   In fact, it's YOUR side that's constantly talking about how uneducated, racist and dumb (especially if they didn't go to college) people in fly-over country are.

Teachers - you got me there.   But that's because of the teacher's unions, not because of the teachers themselves.

So, yeah, you're 99% wrong on your post.
Click to expand...
Im being inflammatory here, but goodness BR, that's quite an antagonistic post :lmao:

 
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