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Liz Cheney “History is watching us.”


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Posted (edited)

Based on her voting record, I think I disagree with Liz Cheney about 70-80% of the time. She is a strict conservative. I do not like her views on immigration, the economy, the environment, or cultural issues. I believe she would nominate judges whom I would very much disapprove of. 
 

And yet I would vote for her. Because she strikes me as that rare public servant who has both the courage of her convictions and great integrity. She’s about to lose her leadership position among the Republicans. After that she’s about to lose her seat in Congress. All because she was brave enough to speak the truth, not on a political issue, but on the more serious question of honor and who we should be as a nation. I really really admire her. 

Edited by timschochet
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You're basically praising Cheney for not being totally insane.  

I agree that it's good to not be totally insane, and we should prefer that our leaders not be totally insane. But I don't think that's where we should set the bar for what's praiseworthy.  That should just be taken for granted.  The fact that it's not is the problem.

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I tend to agree with that. I would consider voting for her, it depends on who she is running against naturally. Here's my take from yesterday:

On 5/3/2021 at 12:05 PM, Grace Under Pressure said:

Liz Cheney came out with a sharp rebuke of the big lie today. "The 2020 presidential election was not stolen." Good for her. The party of Trump will now attack her, and that's too bad. Instead they should listen and come to terms with reality, but they won't. It's the most dangerous attack on our democracy in this generation. Not accepting obvious election results. C'mon. 

Responses were about as expected. I respect the Trump thread and posters so I left it at that.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

You're basically praising Cheney for not being totally insane.  

I agree that it's good to not be totally insane, and we should prefer that our leaders not be totally insane. But I don't think that's where we should set the bar for what's praiseworthy.  That should just be taken for granted.  The fact that it's not is the problem.

I think it’s a bit more than that. 

If you read comments by McCarthy and the other Republican establishment leaders, they’re ousting her because she’s too loud. Most of them privately agree with her, but the base doesn’t, and so they (the establishment leaders) have  learned to shut up. She won’t shut up. I think they really resent her for exposing their fear and hypocrisy. 

Edited by timschochet
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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Have I given you reason to think I’m dishonest? 

First, she's so unlikely to be the nominee.

Second, If she somehow would get that far, I think you'd vote for the other option.

Based on your trillion posts.

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3 minutes ago, identikit said:

First, she's so unlikely to be the nominee.

Second, If she somehow would get that far, I think you'd vote for the other option.

Based on your trillion posts.

tim's trillion posts have made it quite clear that he is a republican that has some liberal ideas on immigration and climate change. He also has repeatedly admitted when he was wrong and owns up to his faults. And IMO, is as honest a person as there is here

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Just now, the moops said:

tim's trillion posts have made it quite clear that he is a republican that has some liberal ideas on immigration and climate change. He also has repeatedly admitted when he was wrong and owns up to his faults. And IMO, is as honest a person as there is here

Fair enough.

RINO at best imo.

 

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5 minutes ago, identikit said:

First, she's so unlikely to be the nominee.

Second, If she somehow would get that far, I think you'd vote for the other option.

Based on your trillion posts.

You may be right, but on the other hand, to me at least, Liz Cheney is a firm member of what the far left and far right would derisively call the "uniparty" - Obama, the Bushes, both Clintons, Romney, etc.  Pro heavy foreign footprint, pro corporation, pro increased immigration, pro heavy federal involvement in any issue deemed "important" enough.  Tim seems to definitely like that type, so I think he would likely vote for Liz Cheney over say, Bernie.

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What You Should Know About Attention-Seeking Behavior in Adults
 

What is it?

For adults, attention-seeking behavior is a conscious or unconscious attempt to become the center of attention, sometimes to gain validation or admiration.

What it may look like

Attention-seeking behavior can include saying or doing something with the goal of getting the attention of a person or a group of people. 

Examples of this behavior include:

fishing for compliments by pointing out achievements and seeking validation

being controversial to provoke a reaction

exaggerating and embellishing stories to gain praise or sympathy

pretending to be unable to do something so someone will teach, help, or watch the attempt to do it

people who are uncomfortable when not the center of attention

 

Narcissistic personality disorder

Those with narcissistic personality disorder typically have a need for admiration with a lack of empathy. 

According to the American Psychiatric Association, for someone to receive a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder, they need to display at least 5 of the following criteria:

a grandiose sense of self-importance

a preoccupation with fantasies of power, unlimited success, brilliance, ideal love, beauty

a belief in their own uniqueness, especially that they should only associate with, and will only be understood by, high-status institutions and high-status people

demand for excessive admiration

a sense of entitlement and unreasonable expectation of favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations

taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends

unwillingness to identify with or recognize the needs and feelings of others

envy of others and belief that others are envious of them

haughty, arrogant attitudes or behaviors

 

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1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

What You Should Know About Attention-Seeking Behavior in Adults
 

What is it?

For adults, attention-seeking behavior is a conscious or unconscious attempt to become the center of attention, sometimes to gain validation or admiration.

What it may look like

Attention-seeking behavior can include saying or doing something with the goal of getting the attention of a person or a group of people. 

Examples of this behavior include:

fishing for compliments by pointing out achievements and seeking validation

being controversial to provoke a reaction

exaggerating and embellishing stories to gain praise or sympathy

pretending to be unable to do something so someone will teach, help, or watch the attempt to do it

people who are uncomfortable when not the center of attention

 

Narcissistic personality disorder

Those with narcissistic personality disorder typically have a need for admiration with a lack of empathy. 

According to the American Psychiatric Association, for someone to receive a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder, they need to display at least 5 of the following criteria:

a grandiose sense of self-importance

a preoccupation with fantasies of power, unlimited success, brilliance, ideal love, beauty

a belief in their own uniqueness, especially that they should only associate with, and will only be understood by, high-status institutions and high-status people

demand for excessive admiration

a sense of entitlement and unreasonable expectation of favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations

taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends

unwillingness to identify with or recognize the needs and feelings of others

envy of others and belief that others are envious of them

haughty, arrogant attitudes or behaviors

 

Perfect.

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1 minute ago, Dr_Zaius said:

You may be right, but on the other hand, to me at least, Liz Cheney is a firm member of what the far left and far right would derisively call the "uniparty" - Obama, the Bushes, both Clintons, Romney, etc.  Pro heavy foreign footprint, pro corporation, pro increased immigration, pro heavy federal involvement in any issue deemed "important" enough.  Tim seems to definitely like that type, so I think he would likely vote for Liz Cheney over say, Bernie.

I am definitely that type, but I don’t think she is. Until this issue she’s been a stalwart conservative, almost a Tea Party type. She certainly is not on my side on immigration. 

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4 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

What You Should Know About Attention-Seeking Behavior in Adults
 

What is it?

For adults, attention-seeking behavior is a conscious or unconscious attempt to become the center of attention, sometimes to gain validation or admiration.

What it may look like

Attention-seeking behavior can include saying or doing something with the goal of getting the attention of a person or a group of people. 

Examples of this behavior include:

fishing for compliments by pointing out achievements and seeking validation

being controversial to provoke a reaction

exaggerating and embellishing stories to gain praise or sympathy

pretending to be unable to do something so someone will teach, help, or watch the attempt to do it

people who are uncomfortable when not the center of attention

 

Narcissistic personality disorder

Those with narcissistic personality disorder typically have a need for admiration with a lack of empathy. 

According to the American Psychiatric Association, for someone to receive a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder, they need to display at least 5 of the following criteria:

a grandiose sense of self-importance

a preoccupation with fantasies of power, unlimited success, brilliance, ideal love, beauty

a belief in their own uniqueness, especially that they should only associate with, and will only be understood by, high-status institutions and high-status people

demand for excessive admiration

a sense of entitlement and unreasonable expectation of favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations

taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends

unwillingness to identify with or recognize the needs and feelings of others

envy of others and belief that others are envious of them

haughty, arrogant attitudes or behaviors

 

Sounds a lot like the guy that Liz Cheney is in trouble for criticizing. 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, identikit said:

I don't believe you.

Yeah, me neither.  I remember when the Cheney's were hated.  Now the left suddenly thinks Liz Cheney is as pure as the driven snow because they "happen" to agree with her on one issue.

This is just another in a long line of BS from them.  It's nothing more than pandering to make everyone THINK they are moderate.  It's horsecrap.  Believe me, if she were to run for President you would hear how terrible she is and that her father is DICK CHENEY!  THE MOST EVIL MAN EVER! 

Edited by BladeRunner
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I am definitely that type, but I don’t think she is. Until this issue she’s been a stalwart conservative, almost a Tea Party type. She certainly is not on my side on immigration. 

That would surprise to me if she was an honest to goodness build the wall type, but I could be wrong.  Her foreign policy is what you would expect from the daughter of Dick Cheney, and I know she was never really on the Trump train.  Maybe I was extrapolating too much.

Edited by Dr_Zaius
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46 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

You're basically praising Cheney for not being totally insane.  

I agree that it's good to not be totally insane, and we should prefer that our leaders not be totally insane. But I don't think that's where we should set the bar for what's praiseworthy.  That should just be taken for granted.  The fact that it's not is the problem.

And she is being punished by her own party for not being totally insane

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51 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Yeah, me neither.  I remember when the Cheney's were hated.  Now the left suddenly thinks Liz Cheney is as pure as the driven snow because they "happen" to agree with her on one issue.

This is just another in a long line of BS from them.  It's nothing more than pandering to make everyone THINK they are moderate.  It's horsecrap.  Believe me, if she were to run for President you would hear how terrible she is and that her father is DICK CHENEY!  THE MOST EVIL MAN EVER! 

Dick Cheney was hated...and rightfully so.  Why you continue to mix feelings about him for Liz is odd.

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1 hour ago, the moops said:

tim's trillion posts have made it quite clear that he is a republican that has some liberal ideas on immigration and climate change. He also has repeatedly admitted when he was wrong and owns up to his faults. And IMO, is as honest a person as there is here

Well if you excuse him paying criminal uninsured immigrants under the table to move his sofas around the city.

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1 hour ago, the moops said:

tim's trillion posts have made it quite clear that he is a republican that has some liberal ideas on immigration and climate change. He also has repeatedly admitted when he was wrong and owns up to his faults. And IMO, is as honest a person as there is here

Oof.  :doh:

Either you're being sarcastic here or you've got the wrong "tim".

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3 minutes ago, djmich said:

Are people still debating if the election was stolen or not?  I missed that.

Trump likes to troll for attention (and money) keeps saying it was "rigged".

Arizona has some scam recount going.

Asked a poster the other day and they said they can't be sure but it was fishy that Biden got more votes than Obama.

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2 hours ago, HellToupee said:

What You Should Know About Attention-Seeking Behavior in Adults
 

What is it?

For adults, attention-seeking behavior is a conscious or unconscious attempt to become the center of attention, sometimes to gain validation or admiration.

What it may look like

Attention-seeking behavior can include saying or doing something with the goal of getting the attention of a person or a group of people. 

Examples of this behavior include:

fishing for compliments by pointing out achievements and seeking validation

being controversial to provoke a reaction

exaggerating and embellishing stories to gain praise or sympathy

pretending to be unable to do something so someone will teach, help, or watch the attempt to do it

people who are uncomfortable when not the center of attention

 

Narcissistic personality disorder

Those with narcissistic personality disorder typically have a need for admiration with a lack of empathy. 

According to the American Psychiatric Association, for someone to receive a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder, they need to display at least 5 of the following criteria:

a grandiose sense of self-importance

a preoccupation with fantasies of power, unlimited success, brilliance, ideal love, beauty

a belief in their own uniqueness, especially that they should only associate with, and will only be understood by, high-status institutions and high-status people

demand for excessive admiration

a sense of entitlement and unreasonable expectation of favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations

taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends

unwillingness to identify with or recognize the needs and feelings of others

envy of others and belief that others are envious of them

haughty, arrogant attitudes or behaviors

 

Tim is an Otis alias?

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3 hours ago, the moops said:

tim's trillion posts have made it quite clear that he is a republican that has some liberal ideas on immigration and climate change. He also has repeatedly admitted when he was wrong and owns up to his faults. And IMO, is as honest a person as there is here

Not any more....the GOP has shifted so far right that Reagan is pretty much a Marxist.  That would make Tim a full blown Communist in this day and age.

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26 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Oh...and not a chance I'd vote for Chaney....my bar is NOT other politicians.  We can do better.

It would be so much better if you could claim that "Chaney" was a typo, but that's awfully difficult to claim. Because it really sounds like you don't know how to spell his or her name, which is often indicative of an unfamiliarity with someone. Probably best left not for comment in that instance. 

But that's me. Everybody's mileage may vary. There are still some Arabic and Polish names I can't spell for the life of me, so we'll give you a hall pass, I guess. But it's "Cheney."

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Not any more....the GOP has shifted so far right that Reagan is pretty much a Marxist.  That would make Tim a full blown Communist in this day and age.

Well...the seeming opinion of the right on the is board...is that the board is far left.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Not any more....the GOP has shifted so far right that Reagan is pretty much a Marxist.  That would make Tim a full blown Communist in this day and age.

The Democrat Party has elected AT LEAST 6 Socialists and counting but it's the GOP whose moved "so far right"?  GTHO.  Fake news, as usual.

Edited by BladeRunner
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1 hour ago, woodstock said:

It would be so much better if you could claim that "Chaney" was a typo, but that's awfully difficult to claim. Because it really sounds like you don't know how to spell his or her name, which is often indicative of an unfamiliarity with someone. Probably best left not for comment in that instance. 

But that's me. Everybody's mileage may vary. There are still some Arabic and Polish names I can't spell for the life of me, so we'll give you a hall pass, I guess. But it's "Cheney."

:lmao:

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4 hours ago, the moops said:

tim's trillion posts have made it quite clear that he is a republican that has some liberal ideas on immigration and climate change. He also has repeatedly admitted when he was wrong and owns up to his faults. And IMO, is as honest a person as there is here

He is a liberal.  With a couple fiscal conservative positions.    But his socialist tendencies are more important to him.

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23 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

The Democrat Party has elected AT LEAST 6 Socialists and counting but it's the GOP whose moved "so far right"?  GTHO.  Fake news, as usual.

Care to name those 6 socialists?

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47 minutes ago, quick-hands said:

He is a liberal.  With a couple fiscal conservative positions.    But his socialist tendencies are more important to him.

I am a fiscally conservative socialist. That’s right! 

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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

The Democrat Party has elected AT LEAST 6 Socialists and counting but it's the GOP whose moved "so far right"?  GTHO.  Fake news, as usual.

Last I checked, the Democratic Party does not elect anyone.

 

I think the "Dems" hold stay away from electing candidates, and leave that to the voters in any given district to make their choice of representation.

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8 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Last I checked, the Democratic Party does not elect anyone.

 

I think the "Dems" hold stay away from electing candidates, and leave that to the voters in any given district to make their choice of representation.

I think you know what I mean, but you're being petty, IMO.

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Just now, BladeRunner said:

As well as the Democrat Party.  No extremists there!

They definitely have some extreme members.

The GOP however has Trump, the person who got 70 million + votes  The guy who summoned a a mob at the Capitol. That takes the cake I think in this discussion. GOP takes the title!

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6 hours ago, timschochet said:

Based on her voting record, I think I disagree with Liz Cheney about 70-80% of the time. She is a strict conservative. I do not like her views on immigration, the economy, the environment, or cultural issues. I believe she would nominate judges whom I would very much disapprove of. 
 

And yet I would vote for her. Because she strikes me as that rare public servant who has both the courage of her convictions and great integrity. She’s about to lose her leadership position among the Republicans. After that she’s about to lose her seat in Congress. All because she was brave enough to speak the truth, not on a political issue, but on the more serious question of honor and who we should be as a nation. I really really admire her. 

Classic pot stirring.

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6 hours ago, HellToupee said:

What You Should Know About Attention-Seeking Behavior in Adults
 

What is it?

For adults, attention-seeking behavior is a conscious or unconscious attempt to become the center of attention, sometimes to gain validation or admiration.

What it may look like

Attention-seeking behavior can include saying or doing something with the goal of getting the attention of a person or a group of people. 

Examples of this behavior include:

fishing for compliments by pointing out achievements and seeking validation

being controversial to provoke a reaction

exaggerating and embellishing stories to gain praise or sympathy

pretending to be unable to do something so someone will teach, help, or watch the attempt to do it

people who are uncomfortable when not the center of attention

 

Narcissistic personality disorder

Those with narcissistic personality disorder typically have a need for admiration with a lack of empathy. 

According to the American Psychiatric Association, for someone to receive a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder, they need to display at least 5 of the following criteria:

a grandiose sense of self-importance

a preoccupation with fantasies of power, unlimited success, brilliance, ideal love, beauty

a belief in their own uniqueness, especially that they should only associate with, and will only be understood by, high-status institutions and high-status people

demand for excessive admiration

a sense of entitlement and unreasonable expectation of favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations

taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends

unwillingness to identify with or recognize the needs and feelings of others

envy of others and belief that others are envious of them

haughty, arrogant attitudes or behaviors

Are you talking about Cheney or tim?

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1 hour ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Remember when Liz Cheney didn’t go to her sister’s same-sex wedding?  And then said she was against gay marriage?  Seems like a sweet person.

As snarky as this place can be I do want to say I always appreciated this kind of thing about you.  Whether I agree with you or not, and we rarely agree, you are pretty consistent and just because Liz Cheney is anti-Trump that doesn't change your opinion.  

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2 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

As snarky as this place can be I do want to say I always appreciated this kind of thing about you.  Whether I agree with you or not, and we rarely agree, you are pretty consistent and just because Liz Cheney is anti-Trump that doesn't change your opinion.  

If you think I would support Cheney simply because she is anti-Trump, then you really misunderstand my OP. 
 

I agree with @fatguyinalittlecoat about Cheney’s attitude towards gays. It bothers me a lot, and there are many other things that bother me about her. 
 

But on January 6 we had an insurrection in this country, and it was incited by the President of the United States. Liz Cheney was one of the very few Republicans that attempted to hold him responsible, and she is practically the only Republican who hasn’t shut up about it since, who has said, “this is important, we shouldn’t ignore it.” At an essential moment in our history she stood up for America even though it’s going to cost her her political career. That puts her in a very small group of leaders- she belongs in the rarefied air of Margaret Chase Smith. 
 

And THATS why I support her. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, timschochet said:

If you think I would support Cheney simply because she is anti-Trump, then you really misunderstand my OP. 
 

I agree with @fatguyinalittlecoat about Cheney’s attitude towards gays. It bothers me a lot, and there are many other things that bother me about her. 
 

But on January 6 we had an insurrection in this country, and it was incited by the President of the United States. Liz Cheney was one of the very few Republicans that attempted to hold him responsible, and she is practically the only Republican who hasn’t shut up about it since, who has said, “this is important, we shouldn’t ignore it.” At an essential moment in our history she stood up for America even though it’s going to cost her her political career. That puts her in a very small group of leaders- she belongs in the rarefied air of Margaret Chase Smith. 
 

And THATS why I support her. 

OK, but I really wasn't thinking of your OP when I said that about @fatguyinalittlecoat  It really was just about him.  There wasn't some greater shade being cast.  The reason it crossed my mind to post is one can't help but notice that people who thought Mitt Romney was a pretty bad guy in 2012 suddenly thought he was some great man after his impeachment vote.  He's pretty much the same guy he was eight years ago, and Liz Cheney is the same as well.  I always liked Mitt and I never liked Liz, that hasn't changed.  

Edited by Shula-holic
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  • timschochet changed the title to Liz Cheney “History is watching us.”

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