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Liz Cheney “History is watching us.”


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2 hours ago, Shula-holic said:

OK, but I really wasn't thinking of your OP when I said that about @fatguyinalittlecoat  It really was just about him.  There wasn't some greater shade being cast.  The reason it crossed my mind to post is one can't help but notice that people who thought Mitt Romney was a pretty bad guy in 2012 suddenly thought he was some great man after his impeachment vote.  He's pretty much the same guy he was eight years ago, and Liz Cheney is the same as well.  I always liked Mitt and I never liked Liz, that hasn't changed.  

I always liked Mitt too. I voted for him in 2012. 

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I don’t change my mind much about people very often. Liz Cheney is someone I strongly disagreed with politically (still do) but I never disliked her as a person. I didn’t really know anything about her. Now I do; she did a very courageous thing and I admire her. 
 

One person I did change my mind about is Donald Trump. I remember watching him being interviewed back around 1999; he struck me then as a fiscal conservative, social liberal centrist. He seemed moderate and well-spoken and quite thoughtful; there was none of the bombast and hateful nationalism that came later. The interviewer was Larry King. I thought at the time he might make a pretty good President. But within 10 years, starting with the Birther nonsense around 2009, that totally changed. 

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12 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

The Democrat Party has elected AT LEAST 6 Socialists and counting but it's the GOP whose moved "so far right"?  GTHO.  Fake news, as usual.

(Ignoring your complete lack of understanding of what "socialist" actually means and taking the comment at face value)

SIX?!?!?!?!?!  Get out!!!!  There aren't 6 traditional GOPers left and those who are now carry the label of "RINO".  You're illustrating my point. :lol: 

Oh, and we need the grammar/spelling police in here STAT...can't have this stuff going on!!!!

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, The Commish said:

(Ignoring your complete lack of understanding of what "socialist" actually means and taking the comment at face value)

SIX?!?!?!?!?!  Get out!!!!  There aren't 6 traditional GOPers left and those who are now carry the label of "RINO".  You're illustrating my point. :lol: 

Oh, and we need the grammar/spelling police in here STAT...can't have this stuff going on!!!!

It's like you're making stuff up out of thin air to cover up for the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.  It's like you're living in your own alternate reality.

Grammar/spelling police huh?  That's the last gasp of a desperate man who can't defend his arguments.

Good work, Einstein.  :doh:

Edited by BladeRunner
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I'd certainly vote for Liz Cheney in the R Primary....as I would Romney, Bush, Bush Jr., Mccain and Dick Cheney.  The R's have gone so far off the deep end; their location so far down the road from where they were 20 years ago; that traditional Conservatives/Republicans have become a breath of fresh air.  I don't think it's good for this country to replace Liz Cheneys with Majorie Taylor Greenes....and even though I'm a Democrat, I'd support those that embody the past Reagan-esque values of the Republican Party against the new Trump brand.........

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50 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

It's like you're making stuff up out of thin air to cover up for the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.  It's like you're living in your own alternate reality.

Grammar/spelling police huh?  That's the last gasp of a desperate man who can't defend his arguments.

Good work, Einstein.  :doh:

You need to read up thread :lol: 

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19 hours ago, timschochet said:

Based on her voting record, I think I disagree with Liz Cheney about 70-80% of the time. She is a strict conservative. I do not like her views on immigration, the economy, the environment, or cultural issues. I believe she would nominate judges whom I would very much disapprove of. 
 

And yet I would vote for her. Because she strikes me as that rare public servant who has both the courage of her convictions and great integrity. She’s about to lose her leadership position among the Republicans. After that she’s about to lose her seat in Congress. All because she was brave enough to speak the truth, not on a political issue, but on the more serious question of honor and who we should be as a nation. I really really admire her. 

After Trump and Biden I think most would.

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

@BladeRunnerIm curious: how do you define “socialist”? 
(

I can tell you he doesn't consider our vaccine rollout to be remotely socialist even though the government is coordinating distribution, funding research and funding production which is pretty much the ultimate irony.  

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I can tell you he doesn't consider our vaccine rollout to be remotely socialist even though the government is coordinating distribution, funding research and funding production which is pretty much the ultimate irony.  

Well that’s part of the reason I’m asking: because often the definition seems inconsistent. (Don’t forget that earlier in this thread I was called a “socialist with fiscal conservative tendencies”. )

Edited by timschochet
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7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Well that’s part of the reason I’m asking: because often the definition seems inconsistent. (Don’t forget that earlier in this thread I was called a “socialist with fiscal conservative tendencies”. )

It's non-existent in this case outside of "stuff I don't like"...at least that's been my personal experience with him.  We started this path of discussion a few months ago and he said he'd comment on questions I asked, and never did.

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36 minutes ago, The Commish said:

You need to read up thread :lol: 

That's not grammar Naziism, nor is it the syntax police. Those are things irrelevant to the point the speaker is making. What you did is demonstrate a complete inability to spell an easy name that one would know if one were familiar with the subject. If I couldn't spell a VP's last name and I were set to criticize him or his family -- and it's a fairly easy name to spell that was in the news a lot -- I'd check my opinion at the door and probably remain silent on the issue. But everybody's mileage is gonna vary, and people will just blah blah blah whether they know anything about the subject or not, so I guess we can, as I said, give you a hall pass on the issue. 

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4 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

To gain more insight on your alternate reality?  No thanks, I'm good.  :thumbup:

Only in the PSF is it "alternate reality" for people to be in the same place reading the same thing :lol: 

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17 minutes ago, woodstock said:

That's not grammar Naziism, nor is it the syntax police. Those are things irrelevant to the point the speaker is making. What you did is demonstrate a complete inability to spell an easy name that one would know if one were familiar with the subject. If I couldn't spell a VP's last name and I were set to criticize him or his family -- and it's a fairly easy name to spell that was in the news a lot -- I'd check my opinion at the door and probably remain silent on the issue. But everybody's mileage is gonna vary, and people will just blah blah blah whether they know anything about the subject or not, so I guess we can, as I said, give you a hall pass on the issue. 

:lmao: Right on...this kind of hard hitting journalism is what keeps me coming back to the PSF.  Your buddy has a different view of this sort of thing though.

1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

Grammar/spelling police huh?  That's the last gasp of a desperate man who can't defend his arguments.

Good work, Einstein.  :doh:

 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Well that’s part of the reason I’m asking: because often the definition seems inconsistent. (Don’t forget that earlier in this thread I was called a “socialist with fiscal conservative tendencies”. )

Well its pretty accurate.   I stand by it.

I cant explain it any better than that.

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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

Dems elected 6 socialists...yet its others in an alternate reality?

I wonder how many people who call themselves Christians know that the early church practiced a form of socialism, albeit out of necessity

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15 minutes ago, Kal El said:

I wonder how many people who call themselves Christians know that the early church practiced a form of socialism, albeit out of necessity

I wonder how many people who support the daily recitation in schools of the Pledge of Allegiance know that it was written by a socialist who preached against the evils of capitalism and understand that the concept of having children recite loyalty oaths is actually sorta creepy when you stop and think about it.  

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39 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

He's off in his own alternate reality where up is down, left is right and only the GOP has moved to the extremes.  

Very true, he calls himself a conservative for crying out loud

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1 hour ago, bigbottom said:

 

I wonder how many people who support the daily recitation in schools of the Pledge of Allegiance know that it was written by a socialist who preached against the evils of capitalism and understand that the concept of having children recite loyalty oaths is actually sorta creepy when you stop and think about it.  

I've been saying it since I was in middle school that I thought the Pledge of Allegiance is super creepy.  If you stand back and listen without reciting it it sounds cultish, or like something that would be required in a country like North Korea.

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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

He's off in his own alternate reality where up is down, left is right and only the GOP has moved to the extremes.  

oooooof...try again. Youve even liked posts of mine calling out those sprinting left. The difference between the groups, of course, is the LEADERS of the GOP are doing the sprinting and people like AOC are doing their nonsense in Dem party. You will ignore that distinction, of course, but its relevant. 

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Character is a necessary but insufficient characteristic for someone to get my vote for leader.  Liz has character, no doubt.  But I would never support her because of policy reasons.

Character being necessary is also why Trump is immediately disqualified.  He has none.  

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Gilroy34 said:

Very true, he calls himself a conservative for crying out loud

Ah.... NOONAN!!!!!  Couldnt stay away could you GB?  :lol:

Edited by The Commish
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4 minutes ago, zoonation said:

Character is a necessary but insufficient characteristic for someone to get my vote for leader.  Liz has character, no doubt.  But I would never support her because of policy reasons.

Character being necessary is also why Trump is immediately disqualified.  He has none.  

To fatguy’s point, I don’t view her character favorably. 

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14 minutes ago, Dickies said:

To fatguy’s point, I don’t view her character favorably. 

Fair enough.  If she is homophobic then I agree with you.  I don't know if she still is.  But it takes strength of character to do what she is doing right now in the face of a party that is casting her aside to support a con man.  Her political future is in serious jeopardy because she refused to play ball with a bunch of sycophants.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, bigbottom said:

I wonder how many people who support the daily recitation in schools of the Pledge of Allegiance know that it was written by a socialist who preached against the evils of capitalism and understand that the concept of having children recite loyalty oaths is actually sorta creepy when you stop and think about it.  

I don't support it for this reason and also that loyalty oaths creep me out, especially with group and compulsory pressures behind them. I think I've stated ad nauseum that I didn't stand for the Pledge in high school and thankfully the ACLU had my back. We had administrators come into the room and address the issue because three of us wouldn't. We, of course, tuned them out, really. They sort of implicitly threatened us, but we didn't care.This was in a moderate town in CT. I'd hate to imagine the pressure on a student in a small town in the Midwest or South during that time.

Forced loyalty oaths are un-American. Fidelity to church and community should be primary over allegiance to a nation-state. In fact, the nation-state is founded on the bedrock principle of individual conscience, presumably tempered by the aforementioned two pillars of church and community.

Edited by rockaction
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, The Commish said:

Na....going from Cheney to Elise Stefanik isn't a sprint right...not at all...I mean....

If the Dems want rid of Elise Stefanik they could pretty easily draw her out of existence in the coming cycle.  They could divvy up her district to give it a slight blue tilt.  I'll lay you 2:1 that says they won't because it wouldn't be assuredly blue, instead they'll pack her district full of red voters so they can hold on to other seats safely and that will assure she continues on as well.  It's why we have people at the fringes, all either party really wants are safe general elections and the primary is where all the action and intensity is.  

Edited by Shula-holic
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1 hour ago, zoonation said:

Fair enough.  If she is homophobic then I agree with you.  I don't know if she still is.  But it takes strength of character to do what she is doing right now in the face of a party that is casting her aside to support a con man.  Her political future is in serious jeopardy because she refused to play ball with a bunch of sycophants.

She could have just kept her mouth shut.  She doesn't have to believe in the cult of Trump or it's ideologies.  But if she's going to defy those in positions above her bad things may happen.  And let's be clear.  All the senior GOP people can do is strip her of her committee assignments.  They can't throw her out of congress.  Only her constituents can do that.

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1 hour ago, Shula-holic said:

If the Dems want rid of Elise Stefanik they could pretty easily draw her out of existence in the coming cycle.  They could divvy up her district to give it a slight blue tilt.  I'll lay you 2:1 that says they won't because it wouldn't be assuredly blue, instead they'll pack her district full of red voters so they can hold on to other seats safely and that will assure she continues on as well.  It's why we have people at the fringes, all either party really wants are safe general elections and the primary is where all the action and intensity is.  

Don't disagree with any of this, but it really has nothing to do with what was being discussed.  I've asserted a pretty significant shift right for the GOP and people said I was wrong.  In my view, this is an example of exactly what I am talking about.  That's the only point I was making.  When you have this dramatic of a shift in personality and it's all because people aren't bowing to Trump and the narrative and it's happening at the TOP of the GOP, those are all indicators of a "sprint right" movement I am talking about.  These aren't just random, low level / new reps making noise.  This is significantly different IMO.  And to be clear, it's not to say the same kinds of problems aren't beginning to happen in the Dems, they are.  Right now it's my belief that the Dems are at the stage the GOP was with the tea party 'movement'.  It's just the Dem version.  Will the Dems end up where the GOP is right now at some point?  If I had to bet, I'd say yes, but there is time to squash that kind of nonsense.  The only question is will the Dems do it or not?

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1 hour ago, Shula-holic said:

So where is everyone on this?  I'll applaud Biden for this move just as I did with Trump.  This type thing with Liz Cheney is the reason I've never cared for her, nothing to do with Donald Trump.

https://news.yahoo.com/rep-liz-cheney-denounces-bidens-203830003.html

 

On the move to get out?  Put me a :thumbup:

That people think it matters if we "announce" when we are leaving?  Put me a :thumbdown:

I once thought this way though.  Then I realized that these people in the middle east have their project plan in place for when the US leaves.  All that's missing is the dates.  That plan has been there for decades.  All they have is time.  Knowing this I realized that the only think announcing a date does is allow them to fill in the dates on their project plan.  This notion that "we can catch them off guard and they won't be ready for removal" is simply naive at best completely ignorant to the realities we face in the middle east at worst.  I'm going with "the worst" here though.

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3 hours ago, Dickies said:
5 hours ago, bigbottom said:

 

I wonder how many people who support the daily recitation in schools of the Pledge of Allegiance know that it was written by a socialist who preached against the evils of capitalism and understand that the concept of having children recite loyalty oaths is actually sorta creepy when you stop and think about it.  

Expand  

I've been saying it since I was in middle school that I thought the Pledge of Allegiance is super creepy.  If you stand back and listen without reciting it it sounds cultish, or like something that would be required in a country like North Korea.

BITD, kids also used to "sieg heil" the flag too instead of putting their hand over their heart.  And "under god" was added later. 

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2 hours ago, John123 said:

She could have just kept her mouth shut.  She doesn't have to believe in the cult of Trump or it's ideologies.  But if she's going to defy those in positions above her bad things may happen.  And let's be clear.  All the senior GOP people can do is strip her of her committee assignments.  They can't throw her out of congress.  Only her constituents can do that.

Yep, she just won’t shut up will she? 

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  • timschochet changed the title to Liz Cheney “History is watching us.”

You guys should see the names they’re calling her on right wing websites. The sexism is ugly and awful, and previously only reserved for women on the left like Hillary, Kamala, and members of the Squad. But some of this is even uglier. 

They’re absolutely furious at her, I think, because she makes them ashamed of themselves. 

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9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

You guys should see the names they’re calling her on right wing websites. The sexism is ugly and awful, and previously only reserved for women on the left like Hillary, Kamala, and members of the Squad. But some of this is even uglier. 

They’re absolutely furious at her, I think, because she makes them ashamed of themselves. 

Yes. By speaking the truth and refusing to be pulled by the same strings the Trump puppet master uses on the Republican spineless lackey cult disgrace it's become.   

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On 5/4/2021 at 12:19 PM, identikit said:

Fair enough.

RINO at best imo.

 

 

On 5/4/2021 at 5:10 PM, quick-hands said:

He is a liberal.  With a couple fiscal conservative positions.    But his socialist tendencies are more important to him.

The posts are inherently nonsensical. RINO because he doesn't like the recent and drastic shift? He's got fiscally conservative positions yet he's a socialist? 

Tim is like the few of us who were Republicans but have become embarassed at what the party has turned in to. 

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10 hours ago, quick-hands said:

Well its pretty accurate.   I stand by it.

I cant explain it any better than that.

It's grossly inaccurate on a mere purely definitional level. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/4/2021 at 2:18 PM, the moops said:

tim's trillion posts have made it quite clear that he is a republican that has some liberal ideas on immigration and climate change. He also has repeatedly admitted when he was wrong and owns up to his faults. And IMO, is as honest a person as there is here

I think it has always been difficult for the Trump folks to understand that integrity, honesty, and treating others with respect mean so much to many that they would vote for and support a candidate who exhibited those principals. And in the process would be willing to overlook many policy differences. As a moderate center right policy person who disagrees with Cheney on a many issues I too would vote for her. Have to admit as a 60 something year old guy who likes petite blondes, her hood spa, spunk, honesty and courage kinda of turns me on.

Politically I think this move will end her political career.

Edited by lazyike
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