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Liz Cheney “History is watching us.”


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22 minutes ago, zoonation said:

Anyone who doesn’t realize Trump is in full control of the GOP is being willfully blind.  That display in Congress today was absolutely shameful.  

I think you're giving too much credit to Trump and not enough "credit" to the people who support him.

(And before you MAGA guys reach for the Like button, that's not a compliment!)

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tim's trillion posts have made it quite clear that he is a republican that has some liberal ideas on immigration and climate change. He also has repeatedly admitted when he was wrong and owns up to hi

The GOP is a post-truth party.  Trump destroyed it and the sycophants, driven by their own ambition not only let it happen, but actively participated in its destruction.  It may be called the "Republi

You're basically praising Cheney for not being totally insane.   I agree that it's good to not be totally insane, and we should prefer that our leaders not be totally insane. But I don't think th

15 hours ago, timschochet said:

The GOP is really going to embarrass itself tomorrow. Shameful day to be a Republican. 

The amazing thing is that it’s not just shameful, it’s stupid as well. With Trump underperforming most Republicans down ballot in 2020, continuing to support Trump over other party leadership that is calling out the toxic things that are driving Republican voters away, is literally hitching the cart to a known loser. 

For all the previous talk of winning, Republicans are seeming to do everything they can to associate themselves with a loser.

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6 hours ago, dkp993 said:

Oh I agree, and that’s exactly why they’ve lost me for the foreseeable future.  F-ing spineless cowards.  While I disagree with Bernie’s policies, for example, I don’t for a second doubt he’s a man of his convictions at least.  Same thing with Liz here, she’s too conservative for my taste but has earned my respect though this (and exposed the lion share of the GOP as cowards).  It’s all so disappointing.  

Right there with you :hifive:  Feel the exact same way.

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13 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

The amazing thing is that it’s not just shameful, it’s stupid as well. With Trump underperforming most Republicans down ballot in 2020, continuing to support Trump over other party leadership that is calling out the toxic things that are driving Republican voters away, is literally hitching the cart to a known loser. 

For all the previous talk of winning, Republicans are seeming to do everything they can to associate themselves with a loser.

Trump is still very popular among Republican primary voters.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Trump is still very popular among Republican primary voters.

But what percent of the total electorate is that? 30%?40%?

Edited by lazyike
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3 minutes ago, lazyike said:

But what percent of the total electorate is that? 30%?40%?

They’re not worried about the total electorate. They’re worried about getting primaried.

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28 minutes ago, lazyike said:

But what percent of the total electorate is that? 30%?40%?

By most accounts it's 30ish...the party has shrunk a good bit, though that doesn't mean those who don't label themselves Trump Supporters/Current Day GOPers won't vote for him.  Just by this place, we know that isn't true.

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1 hour ago, bigbottom said:

Did I hear correctly that most of the Republicans walked out before her speech?

Yes - but I am not sure that is as big a deal as it seems.  There were only a handful of people in the chamber when she spoke - which I assume is fairly normal for the time (even if this was not a normal speech).

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Wait, there are people saying with a straight face that the cult of Trump is not responsible for this? It's tough to distinguish between disingenuous and <non-timeout word> sometimes these days.

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Just now, Gilroy34 said:

For one she voted to impeach a President with no valid reason

Do you believe the former president that the election was stolen?

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10 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

 

Do you believe the former president that the election was stolen?

There was definately shenanigans with all the mail in balots and the swing stayes conveniently shutting down counting on election night only to have huge Biden votes come suddenly in the wee hours of the morning.  Not sure I would use the word stolen but if the election was under normal circumstances I think Trump wins.  I would bet my life savings that Biden did not receive 81 million legitimate votes.

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1 minute ago, Gilroy34 said:

There was definately shenanigans with all the mail in balots and the swing stayes conveniently shutting down counting on election night only to have huge Biden votes come suddenly in the wee hours of the morning.  Not sure I would use the word stolen but if the election was under normal circumstances I think Trump wins.  I would bet my life savings that Biden did not receive 81 million legitimate votes.

There was?  With all the mail in ballots?  Are you sure?

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1 minute ago, Gilroy34 said:

There was definately shenanigans with all the mail in balots and the swing stayes conveniently shutting down counting on election night only to have huge Biden votes come suddenly in the wee hours of the morning.  Not sure I would use the word stolen but if the election was under normal circumstances I think Trump wins.  I would bet my life savings that Biden did not receive 81 million legitimate votes.

Which “wee hour of the morning votes” are you talking about?

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10 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

This really seems like this is Much Ado About Nothing. I think the Democrats are amping this up as usual to score points. They don't really give two beans about Liz Cheney as long as they can use something for propaganda.

yep.

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4 minutes ago, Gilroy34 said:

There was definately shenanigans with all the mail in balots and the swing stayes conveniently shutting down counting on election night only to have huge Biden votes come suddenly in the wee hours of the morning.  Not sure I would use the word stolen but if the election was under normal circumstances I think Trump wins.  I would bet my life savings that Biden did not receive 81 million legitimate votes.

Appreciate your honesty here. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Gilroy34 said:

There was definately shenanigans with all the mail in balots and the swing stayes conveniently shutting down counting on election night only to have huge Biden votes come suddenly in the wee hours of the morning.  Not sure I would use the word stolen but if the election was under normal circumstances I think Trump wins.  I would bet my life savings that Biden did not receive 81 million legitimate votes.

In this case then I understand why you want Cheney out.

I fully disagree with your assessment of the election as this has been by far the most scrutinized election in history and there has not been a single valid report of widespread fraud despite numerous recounts, reviews by election boards, court challenges and Trump's own DOJ, Cyber Security teams.

It just seems that some people want to believe what they want to believe.  I'm not going to change your mind so we'll just agree to disagree.

Edited by Godsbrother
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3 minutes ago, The General said:

Why was she booted?

McCarthy has flat out said it's because they need to be unified in message and she's not unifying them.  She continues to speak out against Jan 6.  Is it time to add him to the RINO list since they believe it's not about any of that?  This is what happens when poorly constructed talking points collide.  Everyone ends up being "wrong" while they look for a corner to back into and defend themselves.

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7 minutes ago, The General said:

Why was she booted?

voted to impeach because she thought it was in HER best interest to further her career.  folks on here seem pretty concerned about her.

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3 minutes ago, shadrap said:

voted to impeach because she thought it was in HER best interest to further her career.  folks on here seem pretty concerned about her.

You’re more honest about this than the House Republicans who are claiming that this had nothing whatsoever to do with her impeachment vote...

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Just now, shadrap said:

voted to impeach because she thought it was in HER best interest to further her career.  folks on here seem pretty concerned about her.

I’d think this ends her career in Wyoming politics maybe she becomes a TV person or moves to another state or something. We’ll see. Her voting record was very conservative, she just acknowledges the disaster that is DJT and the election lies. 

Personally I’m more surprised the GOP falling back in line with Don. Huge anchor for them. 

Regardless this is a very big story for political nerds. Lots of layers to this story.

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15 minutes ago, joffer said:

A new bottom.  Keep up the good work QOP :thumbup:

I started the new lows everyday bit in 2016 and it continues to remain true. I don't know why, but it still surprises me.

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What a cult honestly.  it's nothing more than a cult at this point.  

It's embarrassing to be an american.  

There is no turning back from this.  They are just going to go farther and farther down the rabbit hole and they are going to take 35% of the population on the crazy train with them.  

 

 

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19 minutes ago, shadrap said:

voted to impeach because she thought it was in HER best interest to further her career.  folks on here seem pretty concerned about her.

Why did the House Republicans vote to keep her immediately following the impeachment? What changed?

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One point in which I disagree with many of the pundits: they seem to think this will hurt Republican chances to retake the House in 2022. I hope they’re right, but redistricting (gerrymandering?) suggests otherwise. 

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12 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

Why did the House Republicans vote to keep her immediately following the impeachment? What changed?

She didn't fall in line with the "election was stolen" narrative that the former president is still pushing.   In today's GOP you either go along with it or you don't belong.   

Apparently Republicans are on-board with it because they are in agreement with Cheney losing her leadership position and still support the ex-president.    This is what they want the party to be.

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

One point in which I disagree with many of the pundits: they seem to think this will hurt Republican chances to retake the House in 2022. I hope they’re right, but redistricting (gerrymandering?) suggests otherwise. 

Quit watching fake news

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7 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

She didn't fall in line with the "election was stolen" narrative that the former president is still pushing.   In today's GOP you either go along with it or you don't belong.   

Apparently Republicans are on-board with it because they are in agreement with Cheney losing her leadership position and still support the ex-president.    This is what they want the party to be.

I’m watching all this happen, and I still cannot believe that I know people who have made this same choice and chosen to stick with the party.

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3 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Yes - but I am not sure that is as big a deal as it seems.  There were only a handful of people in the chamber when she spoke - which I assume is fairly normal for the time (even if this was not a normal speech).

I think the same can be said for the whole Cheney episode.  As others have pointed out, other prominent Republicans have broken with Trump and not been "purged" from the party.  The bottom line is that if you are in the party leadership and you spend weeks to months talking about how much the party sucks, you're risking your leadership role.  Now, if that's the way she's feels, good on her for following her conscience, but if, e.g., someone high up at Google proclaimed the company a scourge that should be broken up, no one would be surprised if he was fired.

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1 minute ago, Dr_Zaius said:

I think the same can be said for the whole Cheney episode.  As others have pointed out, other prominent Republicans have broken with Trump and not been "purged" from the party.  The bottom line is that if you are in the party leadership and you spend weeks to months talking about how much the party sucks, you're risking your leadership role.  Now, if that's the way she's feels, good on her for following her conscience, but if, e.g., someone high up at Google proclaimed the company a scourge that should be broken up, no one would be surprised if he was fired.

Except that she never talked about how the party sucked. 

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8 minutes ago, Dr_Zaius said:

I think the same can be said for the whole Cheney episode.  As others have pointed out, other prominent Republicans have broken with Trump and not been "purged" from the party.  The bottom line is that if you are in the party leadership and you spend weeks to months talking about how much the party sucks, you're risking your leadership role.  Now, if that's the way she's feels, good on her for following her conscience, but if, e.g., someone high up at Google proclaimed the company a scourge that should be broken up, no one would be surprised if he was fired.

Can you provide an example of the bolded?

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Except that she never talked about how the party sucked. 

You're right, I was being a bit glib, but as far as I can tell the opposition is less to her positions per se and more to her relentless focus on Trump and Jan. 6. 

Remove Trump from the equation, and do a hypothetical of Murkowski, who was against Kavanaugh.  She made clear she was against him, but did not spend the next few months going on talk shows speaking about how shameful it was that the Reps approved him.  Once you start doing that, rightly or wrongly, you are playing with fire.

Edited by Dr_Zaius
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