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Bipartisan infrastructure deal now looks likely to happen? (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
McConnell went on to say that, although Joe Biden won the nomination, Bernie Sanders’ ideas won. He failed to offer any specifics. 
 

This is just so depressing. The Republicans’ strategy, ever since 2009, has been: 

1. Refuse to work with Democrats on any issue, whatsoever. 
2. Paint all Democrats as socialists, and all Democratic proposals as socialistic. 
 

Certainly, Donald Trump fit well into this strategy, but he wasn’t the one who originated it. Mitch did. And it’s worked very well for him, and the GOP, it must be said. But how bad has it been for the country? 

 
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And the thing is, Joe Biden is hardly a socialist. Do I agree with all of his ideas? No. But they’re in keeping with the old, traditional, 20th century Democratic Party- the New Deal, the Great Society. They’re not radical by any means. Real radicals, like the “Squad” for example, can barely tolerate them. 

 
But, but, but the people want a universal basic income like some irrelavant european countries.
Some of the reasons they can afford to do that is because the US foots the bill for their defense and pharmaceuticals for them and the rest of the world.

I say we pull all that funding and make them decide if they want defense or UBI for their people.

 
We need to get our people off the government nipple.   Sick of supporting too many people who won't find work when there are many jobs available.
IMO we will need to at some point.   Technology will get us to a point where we need less and less physical workers, and I think COVID has shown many businesses that work from home is an option and less wasteful (but will also be a detriment to local businesses - restaurants, bars, etc..)  

Tech has been a double whammy - takes the place of jobs, and provides a really cheap form of entertainment for a lot of people.  What more do you need than your phone/console and a couple streaming services?  

Also, the jobs people are complaining that people aren't doing are pretty crappy jobs for the most part aren't they? ( I work in such an industry).   Not sure what the answer is there to make jobs more enticing to sign up for.  

 
We have more pressing concerns that money can be used for.  Like paying off the national debt.

We shouldn't be paying lazy ###  people to stay home.
Like that will ever be a priority.   

I love how you assume everybody at home are lazy ### people too.  ;)  

 
McConnell went on to say that, although Joe Biden won the nomination, Bernie Sanders’ ideas won. He failed to offer any specifics. 
 

This is just so depressing. The Republicans’ strategy, ever since 2009, has been: 

1. Refuse to work with Democrats on any issue, whatsoever. 
2. Paint all Democrats as socialists, and all Democratic proposals as socialistic. 
 

Certainly, Donald Trump fit well into this strategy, but he wasn’t the one who originated it. Mitch did. And it’s worked very well for him, and the GOP, it must be said. But how bad has it been for the country? 
Does this on any level give you pause to reconsider your stance on term limits?  Because it should.

 
IMO we will need to at some point.   Technology will get us to a point where we need less and less physical workers, and I think COVID has shown many businesses that work from home is an option and less wasteful (but will also be a detriment to local businesses - restaurants, bars, etc..)  

Tech has been a double whammy - takes the place of jobs, and provides a really cheap form of entertainment for a lot of people.  What more do you need than your phone/console and a couple streaming services?  

Also, the jobs people are complaining that people aren't doing are pretty crappy jobs for the most part aren't they? ( I work in such an industry).   Not sure what the answer is there to make jobs more enticing to sign up for.  
No doubt the service industry is taking a hit.  Small business is taking a bigger hit.  

 
Were the Democrats as obstructionist, during the Trump years, as the Republicans have been before and since? That seems to be the argument being made here, but I’m not buying it. During the Trump years the Dems tried to reach bipartisan agreements on immigration, on spending, on Infrastructure. In each case they believed they had White House approval only to have Trump bail out each time whenever the far right objected. 
Is Biden proposing anything particularly controversial? Not really; it’s all stuff that the majority of Republicans, based on polling, is pretty strongly in favor of. So it appears that the GOP in Congress is only opposing him because they think it will help them regain power. 

 
We have more pressing concerns that money can be used for.  Like paying off the national debt.
If you truly believe this, you would never have supported Trump or any Republican who supported Trump’s tax cut and spending plan. 
 

The fact that you did makes me think that you (and other conservatives who talk about the debt) are being both disingenuous and hypocritical. 

 
I don't assume all, but I believe at least 50% are.  Unfortunately, unless we can identify who they are then EVERYONE has to work.
:lol:   I would love to hear you are for determining who lazy or not as well.   

I guess I just never understood or agreed with the mentality of productive member of society = work 40-50hrs/week and buy crap.   At the very least I know that our household ran better when I was stay at home dadding, and UBI would for sure help us and a couple other families I know go this route.  

 
No doubt the service industry is taking a hit.  Small business is taking a bigger hit.  
I am not 100% sure the reasons, but on our little corner of the interstate - McDonald's, BK, and Taco Bell are constantly closing early (8 or so) or doing DT only at night.  We hired a worker from BK, and she said that they were constantly having trouble keeping people.   

We are OK, but are struggling a little keeping kitchen staff.  However, b/c of the other places around us closing early, we are busy as #### at night and are actually quite busy compared to pre-covid numbers.    We do struggle a little with retention, and do lose workers to factories or places like Target/Walmart a bit too.  

 
I am not 100% sure the reasons, but on our little corner of the interstate - McDonald's, BK, and Taco Bell are constantly closing early (8 or so) or doing DT only at night.  We hired a worker from BK, and she said that they were constantly having trouble keeping people.   

We are OK, but are struggling a little keeping kitchen staff.  However, b/c of the other places around us closing early, we are busy as #### at night and are actually quite busy compared to pre-covid numbers.    We do struggle a little with retention, and do lose workers to factories or places like Target/Walmart a bit too.  
My BIL is one of the guys sitting at home making more with the stepped up unemployment.  He's making more sitting at home, I mean I guess I can't blame him.  We are giving him a raise if he doesn't work.

 
My BIL is one of the guys sitting at home making more with the stepped up unemployment.  He's making more sitting at home, I mean I guess I can't blame him.  We are giving him a raise if he doesn't work.
I guess what I am saying is that I don't automatically equate this with something bad.   Does he do anything instead?  Is staying at home more beneficial for his family if he has one? 

I get that there are some people who do this and watch Netflix all day.  Just saying that IMO we as a society talk out of both sides of our mouths when we bemoan the crumbling family unit, but we also promote everybody working jobs and paying for other people to raise our kids while we work our jobs.   I think a UBI and for sure getting health care untethered to employers and cheaper would go a long way to help some of our problems.  

 
My BIL is one of the guys sitting at home making more with the stepped up unemployment.  He's making more sitting at home, I mean I guess I can't blame him.  We are giving him a raise if he doesn't work.
The level of shortsightedness of people like your BIL is staggering.  What all of them are missing is the opportunity presented to themselves right now to stand out for businesses in a time of need.  That’s a great way to advance oneself and their future earning power.   It’s mind blowing to me how unambitious people can be. 

 
I guess what I am saying is that I don't automatically equate this with something bad.   Does he do anything instead?  Is staying at home more beneficial for his family if he has one? 

I get that there are some people who do this and watch Netflix all day.  Just saying that IMO we as a society talk out of both sides of our mouths when we bemoan the crumbling family unit, but we also promote everybody working jobs and paying for other people to raise our kids while we work our jobs.   I think a UBI and for sure getting health care untethered to employers and cheaper would go a long way to help some of our problems.  
Well he's off hunting some, watching tv, driving around a little.  My in laws take their son to school each day for them so he really just sits at home on his own.  I realize this is anecdotal but I hardly think he's a rare case.  And let's be honest with ourselves that he has no financial incentive to do otherwise.  I wish I could sit here and blame him, but we have created the situation he's just accepting it.

 
The level of shortsightedness of people like your BIL is staggering.  What all of them are missing is the opportunity presented to themselves right now to stand out for businesses in a time of need.  That’s a great way to advance oneself and their future earning power.   It’s mind blowing to me how unambitious people can be. 
The bolded would be a perfect one word definition for my BIL and SIL

 
Just saying that IMO we as a society talk out of both sides of our mouths when we bemoan the crumbling family unit, but we also promote everybody working jobs and paying for other people to raise our kids while we work our jobs
These things are not mutually exclusive.  You can work and raise good kids.  You can also stay at home and raise ####ty ones.  The two things aren’t tied together.  

 
The level of shortsightedness of people like your BIL is staggering.  What all of them are missing is the opportunity presented to themselves right now to stand out for businesses in a time of need.  That’s a great way to advance oneself and their future earning power.   It’s mind blowing to me how unambitious people can be. 
I guess, if that was their mentality they probably would be doing that with or without a bumped up UI.   That's not for everybody (me), and frankly it's makes some people and families miserable.  I don't know what %s are, but maybe it's my more hippy/liberal tendencies peeking out when I see extra money for people as more family time, maybe a way to keep a parent home more, let people explore things they love more (increasing mental health), etc.    For sure give me that choice of working a crap repetitive job with little mobility and staying home with my family and it's a no-brainer.  

 
These things are not mutually exclusive.  You can work and raise good kids.  You can also stay at home and raise ####ty ones.  The two things aren’t tied together.  
Well aware, and that was not my suggestion with that post.    

Like I said, JMO - but I think our country's mentality of "work, work, work" does more harm than good.   Personally, I just know too many people that have to have one of the parents work just to pay for health care as it gets to $1K/month or more, or b/c they can't afford to ditch their job and lose a decent plan.  Parents have to juggle multiple jobs, which leads to stress, less family time etc.   I get that is not for everybody, I just wish we were to the point economically where we had more options.  

 
I guess, if that was their mentality they probably would be doing that with or without a bumped up UI.   That's not for everybody (me), and frankly it's makes some people and families miserable.  I don't know what %s are, but maybe it's my more hippy/liberal tendencies peeking out when I see extra money for people as more family time, maybe a way to keep a parent home more, let people explore things they love more (increasing mental health), etc.    For sure give me that choice of working a crap repetitive job with little mobility and staying home with my family and it's a no-brainer.  
While in theory I don’t necessarily disagree with your position. The problem is the practical reality with which we are currently experiencing says otherwise. Businesses are getting hammered with the inability to hire people right now, I know this firsthand because I’m living it. The inability to hire is rampant right now. There is simply not enough people willing to work right now to fill positions across all kinds of industries. 

There were elements of the UBI talk that I was very much behind (I was and still am #yanggang) but experiencing what I’m am now I’m having serious doubts.  

 
McConnell went on to say that, although Joe Biden won the nomination, Bernie Sanders’ ideas won. He failed to offer any specifics. 
 

This is just so depressing. The Republicans’ strategy, ever since 2009, has been: 

1. Refuse to work with Democrats on any issue, whatsoever. 
2. Paint all Democrats as socialists, and all Democratic proposals as socialistic. 
 

Certainly, Donald Trump fit well into this strategy, but he wasn’t the one who originated it. Mitch did. And it’s worked very well for him, and the GOP, it must be said. But how bad has it been for the country? 
Please provide a link supporting the above. 

 
Well aware, and that was not my suggestion with that post.    

Like I said, JMO - but I think our country's mentality of "work, work, work" does more harm than good.   Personally, I just know too many people that have to have one of the parents work just to pay for health care as it gets to $1K/month or more, or b/c they can't afford to ditch their job and lose a decent plan.  Parents have to juggle multiple jobs, which leads to stress, less family time etc.   I get that is not for everybody, I just wish we were to the point economically where we had more options.  
Totally get it. I was raised dirt poor with a mother that worked 2-3 jobs at a time to make ends meet and put food on the table. I lived what you’re describing and understand it first hand.  Unfortunately there are also just to many people who will game the system and the only reason we have the ability to do what you describe is because of people like myself who work 6 days a week to pay for it.  I’m way down to help with my share for people like you are describing, but I’m not for the lazy 30yr who wants to sit on the couch smoke pot and play video games.   When a good system comes along to support the situation you describe without supporting the one I did I’ll be happy to listen. 

 
While in theory I don’t necessarily disagree with your position. The problem is the practical reality with which we are currently experiencing says otherwise. Businesses are getting hammered with the inability to hire people right now, I know this firsthand because I’m living it. The inability to hire is rampant right now. There is simply not enough people willing to work right now to fill positions across all kinds of industries. 

There were elements of the UBI talk that I was very much behind (I was and still am #yanggang) but experiencing what I’m am now I’m having serious doubts.  
Yeah, we aren't far off, and like I said - I am seeing it too.     I can't speak for everywhere, but I look across the street at those places, and they are crappy places to work for.    Given the choice to work at a place like that or sit at home (hell, even for less money), and I don't blame people for making that choice.     I think there has to be a balance (and from the plans I've seen for UBI it tries to strike this balance) so there is more of a financial incentive to work.   

These companies having trouble hiring people are also notorious for letting people go so they don't have to pay them more, not being honest that it's seasonal work, slowly replacing workers with self checkouts, kiosks, etc..   So I think a bit of this has to be some self reflection about what these companies are doing and how they are treating people.  

Like I said, at the end of the day, I think it's just inevitable as we lose jobs to automation and stay at home work,  and see the ramifications of that. 

 
Totally get it. I was raised dirt poor with a mother that worked 2-3 jobs at a time to make ends meet and put food on the table. I lived what you’re describing and understand it first hand.  Unfortunately there are also just to many people who will game the system and the only reason we have the ability to do what you describe is because of people like myself who work 6 days a week to pay for it.  I’m way down to help with my share for people like you are describing, but I’m not for the lazy 30yr who wants to sit on the couch smoke pot and play video games.   When a good system comes along to support the situation you describe without supporting the one I did I’ll be happy to listen. 
0% chance that happens, there will always be these people and people gaming the system.   The reasons why I am more interested in UBIs is because it benefits everybody, so IMO it will be more likely to help the people I have in mind or people like your mother, because the other people are probably already gaming the system.  

 
Right?  I remember when being obstructionist was actually cheered by the left.

If only there was a word to describe someone who says one thing but does another.  🤔
What GOP legislative proposals were obstructed by the left during the Trump administration? It seems like the big legislative efforts were as follows:

1) Tax cuts - passed

2) Obamacare repeal - failed to pass

3) Stimulus bill - passed

Were there any other major bills that were introduced and ultimately obstructed by the left?  It’s an honest question - I suspect there may be some, but I’m just not remembering them. The Obamacare repeal is the primary example, though it didn’t actually include a replacement health care plan. I don’t recall the GOP introducing a health care bill, or an infrastructure bill, or an immigration bill. I guess there was the issue of funding for the wall. Did an actual bill get out of committee on on that?

 
What GOP legislative proposals were obstructed by the left during the Trump administration? It seems like the big legislative efforts were as follows:

1) Tax cuts - passed

2) Obamacare repeal - failed to pass

3) Stimulus bill - passed

Were there any other major bills that were introduced and ultimately obstructed by the left?  It’s an honest question - I suspect there may be some, but I’m just not remembering them. The Obamacare repeal is the primary example, though it didn’t actually include a replacement health care plan. I don’t recall the GOP introducing a health care bill, or an infrastructure bill, or an immigration bill. I guess there was the issue of funding for the wall. Did an actual bill get out of committee on on that?
It did not. There was a proposal, that Trump signaled he would accept, which essentially traded funding for the wall for extending the Dream Act. Trump stated he was for this, and Shumer did too. But then the far right apparently could not tolerate a path to citizenship even for US veterans, and suddenly Trump did a 180. 
 

On infrastructure, the Democrats repeatedly asked for a proposal from the White House. When none was forthcoming they offered their own, but the Republicans refused to consider it. McConnell never offered his own proposal. 
 

So what @BladeRunner asserted is simply false. 

 
Yeah, we aren't far off, and like I said - I am seeing it too.     I can't speak for everywhere, but I look across the street at those places, and they are crappy places to work for.    Given the choice to work at a place like that or sit at home (hell, even for less money), and I don't blame people for making that choice.     I think there has to be a balance (and from the plans I've seen for UBI it tries to strike this balance) so there is more of a financial incentive to work.   

These companies having trouble hiring people are also notorious for letting people go so they don't have to pay them more, not being honest that it's seasonal work, slowly replacing workers with self checkouts, kiosks, etc..   So I think a bit of this has to be some self reflection about what these companies are doing and how they are treating people.  

Like I said, at the end of the day, I think it's just inevitable as we lose jobs to automation and stay at home work,  and see the ramifications of that. 
Don’t take this the wrong way but your place is probably considered a crappy place to work at also (the type of job only)  When a bigger chain offers your cooks a $200 sign up bonus, you will lose them.  All everyone does is poach each other’s workers now.  The low-skilled and bad workers have all the power, they will have their pick of jobs like your place.   when things don’t go their way, they will go to the next place.   Give a UBI to these people?  Oh hell no.  

Welcome to Biden’s America.

 
Does anyone ever consider the people who the left want to come here from other countries come to better themselves.  They can just skate by at home.  This UBI BS is just that - BS.  People come here for the chance they don't or can't get at home.  That is all they want.  They are going to a med school here to hear about racial studies and radical thinking.

 
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