What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Bipartisan infrastructure deal now looks likely to happen? (1 Viewer)

Dead in the house. Nancy said they wont pass it if they dont get a bunch of their "human infrastructure" added in. Dems Pres announces an agreement. Dem house not going to honor it. What a mess of a party, they cant even get on the same page. 

 
tonydead said:
Dead in the house. Nancy said they wont pass it if they dont get a bunch of their "human infrastructure" added in. Dems Pres announces an agreement. Dem house not going to honor it. What a mess of a party, they cant even get on the same page. 
Click to expand...
That’s not what she said. That’s not going to happen. Your info is wrong. 
 

There seems to be more than one person here who (a) really doesn’t want this deal to happen and (b) want to be able to blame the Democrats if it doesn’t. 
 

 
timschochet said:
That’s not what she said. That’s not going to happen. Your info is wrong. 
 

There seems to be more than one person here who (a) really doesn’t want this deal to happen and (b) want to be able to blame the Democrats if it doesn’t. 
 
Click to expand...
You're right. I said it more eloquently than she did.

"There ain't gonna be no bipartisan bill, unless we have a reconciliation bill," she said. "As I said, there won't be an infrastructure bill, unless we have a reconciliation bill. Plain and simple. In fact, I use the word ain't. There ain't going to be an infrastructure bill, unless we have the reconciliation bill passed by the United States Senate,"
Click to expand...

 
tonydead said:
Dead in the house. Nancy said they wont pass it if they dont get a bunch of their "human infrastructure" added in. Dems Pres announces an agreement. Dem house not going to honor it. What a mess of a party, they cant even get on the same page. 
Click to expand...
Art of the deal, Pelosi style.

 
timschochet said:
There seems to be more than one person here who (a) really doesn’t want this deal to happen and (b) want to be able to blame the Democrats if it doesn’t. 
 
Click to expand...
No and no.

What you evidently don't comprehend is that there is no longer a "infrastructure deal" as we knew it. Now there is only a single, combined mega-deal. That is what "tied together" means.

Absolutely most people wanted the stand-alone deal to happen. Disingenuous to suggest otherwise. But that deal only had a lifespan of two hours. It is gone.

 
Stoneworker said:
No and no.

What you evidently don't comprehend is that there is no longer a "infrastructure deal" as we knew it. Now there is only a single, combined mega-deal. That is what "tied together" means.

Absolutely most people wanted the stand-alone deal to happen. Disingenuous to suggest otherwise. But that deal only had a lifespan of two hours. It is gone.
Click to expand...
Pelosi will get closer to what she wants out of the deal. She gets to play the bad guy Manchin and Snema and to some extent Biden get to step back.

 
Mitch McConnell 

"What it does is put my members, including myself, who were optimistic about doing a bipartisan infrastructure bill in a position of our Democratic friends having to guarantee that the 2017 tax bill is unwound. That's our one red line,"
Click to expand...
:thumbup: . Hold the line Mitch. 

 
I get people hate Pelosi. She’s a political beast. She also knows how this #### works. 

She absolutely smoked Don with the government shutdown a few years ago. Made him look like a complete fool.

Carried Schumer along with her because she’s good that way. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
If Republicans walk away from a deal they negotiated, and which most of the Republican base agrees with, because later on the Democrats will pass other stuff on their own, Republicans will lose that public opinion war, badly. And they know it. 
 

Which is why it won’t happen. Republicans will work with the Democrats on the bipartisan bill, then oppose the reconciliation bill, and then they will run against the latter, probably successfully. 
Click to expand...
Is this a joke?  

They negotiated infrastructure, correct?  And now Biden comes out saying "Give my side everything we want, or I'll veto the parts you can agree with us on."  

But hey, he's going to bring the sides together.  Eventually.  Maybe.  

 
Just a disgusting bait and switch by Biden.  And all for political theatre.  "Welp, Mitch and the boys even endorsed it and still refuse to work with us."  AND in doing so, potentially again prevents anything from being done.  There's nothing wrong with passing the infrastructure as a standalone bill.  It would benefit America.  But he's going to use "helping America" as a bargaining chip to executing more of his own agenda.  

I think it's a big spit in the face of the Republicans and the American people.  He gets Republicans to endorse the physical infrastructure plan.  He does a nice photo op.  We're all friends.  Yay bipartisanship.  

But LOL We aint doin this if I can't get all the Dems to do my bidding on this other thing.  He somehow took a victory lap and stopped the race all in 1 day.  Really really something else.  

I know some are going to say "those gosh darn Republicans, bein obstructionist and all."  But this is the opposite of Bipartisanship and good faith.  I really do think the Dems are hoping the Republicans refuse to play ball and nothing gets done.  As some of the more rational posters have said--it's more important to beat the other side than it is to win for America.  

 
I don’t think Republicans are going to walk away from the deal. They knew about the reconciliation bill all along. This is just talk. It’s going to happen. 

 
jm192 said:
Just a disgusting bait and switch by Biden.  And all for political theatre.  "Welp, Mitch and the boys even endorsed it and still refuse to work with us."  AND in doing so, potentially again prevents anything from being done.  There's nothing wrong with passing the infrastructure as a standalone bill.  It would benefit America.  But he's going to use "helping America" as a bargaining chip to executing more of his own agenda.  

I think it's a big spit in the face of the Republicans and the American people.  He gets Republicans to endorse the physical infrastructure plan.  He does a nice photo op.  We're all friends.  Yay bipartisanship.  

But LOL We aint doin this if I can't get all the Dems to do my bidding on this other thing.  He somehow took a victory lap and stopped the race all in 1 day.  Really really something else.  

I know some are going to say "those gosh darn Republicans, bein obstructionist and all."  But this is the opposite of Bipartisanship and good faith.  I really do think the Dems are hoping the Republicans refuse to play ball and nothing gets done.  As some of the more rational posters have said--it's more important to beat the other side than it is to win for America.  
Click to expand...
Not a spit in the face at all. The Republicans knew about this all along, and they agreed to it. 

The Republicans will vote for the first plan, oppose the reconciliation, and run against it. But it’s all going to happen. This will be a big win for Biden and bipartisanship. 

 
jm192 said:
Just a disgusting bait and switch by Biden.  And all for political theatre.  "Welp, Mitch and the boys even endorsed it and still refuse to work with us."  AND in doing so, potentially again prevents anything from being done.  There's nothing wrong with passing the infrastructure as a standalone bill.  It would benefit America.  But he's going to use "helping America" as a bargaining chip to executing more of his own agenda.  

I think it's a big spit in the face of the Republicans and the American people.  He gets Republicans to endorse the physical infrastructure plan.  He does a nice photo op.  We're all friends.  Yay bipartisanship.  

But LOL We aint doin this if I can't get all the Dems to do my bidding on this other thing.  He somehow took a victory lap and stopped the race all in 1 day.  Really really something else.  

I know some are going to say "those gosh darn Republicans, bein obstructionist and all."  But this is the opposite of Bipartisanship and good faith.  I really do think the Dems are hoping the Republicans refuse to play ball and nothing gets done.  As some of the more rational posters have said--it's more important to beat the other side than it is to win for America.  
Click to expand...
It’s a tool in the bag. Don’t hate the player. The deal will get done.

Republicans can whine about the budget after the fact. 

 
The General said:
It’s a tool in the bag. Don’t hate the player. The deal will get done.

Republicans can whine about the budget after the fact. 
Click to expand...
Exactly. Notice how McConnell complained but didn’t declare his opposition. Also notice that while Pelosi and Biden both swore that there would absolutely be a reconciliation bill, neither of them mentioned what would or would not be in it. 

There’s going to be a lot of negotiating left- I’m guessing that, in the end the tax cuts aren’t going to happen, or not happen by much. But there’s going to be a deal. 

 
timschochet said:
Exactly. Notice how McConnell complained but didn’t declare his opposition. Also notice that while Pelosi and Biden both swore that there would absolutely be a reconciliation bill, neither of them mentioned what would or would not be in it. 

There’s going to be a lot of negotiating left- I’m guessing that, in the end the tax cuts aren’t going to happen, or not happen by much. But there’s going to be a deal. 
Click to expand...
It appears that way to me.

Dems will wring a bit more out of the deal.

Allows human blobfish Mitch room to blather on about whatever he does.

Manchin’s ego gets more oxygen.

Pelosi having quite the day today with this and the Jan 6th announcement.

 
Who came up with the term "human infrastructure"?  Are we going to start having "human defense bill" where we just pay for good stuff instead of bombs?

 
This is my first post in this thread, although I've been following along.  One question: how many times has @timschochet changed the title already?  Yet you're all arguing over the latest development as if there will be no more developments...

 
Rich Conway said:
This is my first post in this thread, although I've been following along.  One question: how many times has @timschochet changed the title already?  Yet you're all arguing over the latest development as if there will be no more developments...
Click to expand...
Hes changed the title at least as many times as hes chaged his prediction.

How an earth did you come up with the idea that nobody thinks there wont be anymore developments?  Just about every single post is about what people think is going to happen next. 

 
So we have a deal but we don't have a deal.  This makes no sense at all.    :loco:

For once I thought our govt. had gotten its act together to act like adults.  I guess I was wrong.

 
Osaurus said:
To be fair, several Presidents have kicked this can down the road as well as many Congresses.
Click to expand...
Sure. Who knows what this will even do. But like start of health care leave it to the Dems to get stuff done.

Don could have used these same mechanisms.

 
timschochet said:
Not a spit in the face at all. The Republicans knew about this all along, and they agreed to it. 
Click to expand...
Wrong. Again. Source: Washington Post. Where's your source?

Senators who were part of the bipartisan group were never told of such an explicit linking of the two packages, the two people familiar with the discussions said.

It never came up in their talks with the White House advisers or with Biden himself during Thursday’s meeting of the group of 10 key negotiators, they said.

Senators were described as “stunned,” “floored” and “frustrated” after Biden later put the conditions on accepting their deal, according to people familiar with the private conversations and granted anonymity to discuss them.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/blindsided-gop-senators-put-infrastructure-deal-in-doubt/ar-AALsaog?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stoneworker said:
Wrong. Again. Source: Washington Post. Where's your source?

Senators who were part of the bipartisan group were never told of such an explicit linking of the two packages, the two people familiar with the discussions said.

It never came up in their talks with the White House advisers or with Biden himself during Thursday’s meeting of the group of 10 key negotiators, they said.

Senators were described as “stunned,” “floored” and “frustrated” after Biden later put the conditions on accepting their deal, according to people familiar with the private conversations and granted anonymity to discuss them.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/blindsided-gop-senators-put-infrastructure-deal-in-doubt/ar-AALsaog?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz
Click to expand...
What bunk. 
My source is myself. I heard about the linking of the two over a month ago. I heard both Nancy and Schumer talk about it over and over again. “Anything we can’t get in the infrastructure agreement we’ll get through reconciliation”. I heard this numerous times: in interviews, on Meet the Press, on the news, everywhere. 
 

The notion that I was aware of it and somehow Republicans in Washington weren’t is complete and total nonsense. They’re lying in order to try and blackmail the Democrats against reconciliation, or at the very least try and split the moderates. But I don’t think it will work, and I don’t believe Republicans will walk away from this deal either. 

 
timschochet said:
What bunk. 
My source is myself. I heard about the linking of the two over a month ago. I heard both Nancy and Schumer talk about it over and over again. “Anything we can’t get in the infrastructure agreement we’ll get through reconciliation”. I heard this numerous times: in interviews, on Meet the Press, on the news, everywhere. 
 

The notion that I was aware of it and somehow Republicans in Washington weren’t is complete and total nonsense. They’re lying in order to try and blackmail the Democrats against reconciliation, or at the very least try and split the moderates. But I don’t think it will work, and I don’t believe Republicans will walk away from this deal either. 
Click to expand...
So what's the purpose of negotiating?  If you are going to take everything you want anyway, why would the other side even bother to negotiate?  It literally makes no sense.

 
timschochet said:
What bunk. 
My source is myself. I heard about the linking of the two over a month ago. I heard both Nancy and Schumer talk about it over and over again. “Anything we can’t get in the infrastructure agreement we’ll get through reconciliation”. I heard this numerous times: in interviews, on Meet the Press, on the news, everywhere. 
 

The notion that I was aware of it and somehow Republicans in Washington weren’t is complete and total nonsense. They’re lying in order to try and blackmail the Democrats against reconciliation, or at the very least try and split the moderates. But I don’t think it will work, and I don’t believe Republicans will walk away from this deal either. 
Click to expand...
You win.

I follow the rules of the forum and cite direct quotes from multiple corroborating sources actually inside the negotiating room from the most reputable media outlet in Washington.

You call them liars and cite yourself.

Can't compete with that.

 
Shula-holic said:
So what's the purpose of negotiating?  If you are going to take everything you want anyway, why would the other side even bother to negotiate?  It literally makes no sense.
Click to expand...
Seems to me that there was one bill with, for simplicity sake two components: 

  1. the infrastructure piece
  2. the "human infrastructure piece".
There was some agreement on the appropriateness of the infrastructure piece and none on the rest.  While the need for infrastructure spending was shared there was a difference on the details, especially how to pay for it.  

I don't know if this is what actually happened, but it makes complete sense to separate the two parts and work out a deal on the components where a deal is possible.  

Assuming that the democrats don't just put everything they want back into the reconciliation bill then it makes sense for Republicans to negotiate to prioritize what is spent and I'd presume for them the no tax hikes to pay for it.

I've tried and failed to find what would be in the reconciliation bill or how it would be paid for.  I've seen elder and  childcare.  And I've seen tax credits for climate change  But that's about it.  Even if they hate everything about this aspect, the republicans would seem to be big winners if there are only modest changes to tax rates to pay for the second bill.

Since Tim is correct and the notion that the Republicans were blindsided is :bs:   (link - all that matters with this link is the date), then either the Republicans saw value in negotiating or they are plain stupid.  

 
timschochet said:
What bunk. 
My source is myself. I heard about the linking of the two over a month ago. I heard both Nancy and Schumer talk about it over and over again. “Anything we can’t get in the infrastructure agreement we’ll get through reconciliation”. I heard this numerous times: in interviews, on Meet the Press, on the news, everywhere. 
 

The notion that I was aware of it and somehow Republicans in Washington weren’t is complete and total nonsense. They’re lying in order to try and blackmail the Democrats against reconciliation, or at the very least try and split the moderates. But I don’t think it will work, and I don’t believe Republicans will walk away from this deal either. 
Click to expand...
No you didnt. :lol: . Your own posts in this thread demonstrate otherwise.  Your back alarm is beeping. Beep, beep, beep. Good Grief!   

 
tonydead said:
So what, other than a gotcha on a FF message board. They wont get the vote to repeal the taxes. That's 3D chess right there and Biden & Co. fell into it face first.  
Click to expand...
Pretty much all that matters, huh?  
 

Regardless of the tactics that the Dems might or might not use down the road, the infrastructure deal is good for the country.

 
timschochet said:
What bunk. 
My source is myself. I heard about the linking of the two over a month ago. I heard both Nancy and Schumer talk about it over and over again. “Anything we can’t get in the infrastructure agreement we’ll get through reconciliation”. I heard this numerous times: in interviews, on Meet the Press, on the news, everywhere. 
 

The notion that I was aware of it and somehow Republicans in Washington weren’t is complete and total nonsense. They’re lying in order to try and blackmail the Democrats against reconciliation, or at the very least try and split the moderates. But I don’t think it will work, and I don’t believe Republicans will walk away from this deal either. 
Click to expand...
LOL.

As others have said:  The norm is "cite your sources."  Now, that's bunk.  You heard it and shouldn't have to cite it.  How dare anyone question you.  

Let's have a discussion other than "this is what I think, you're insane if you question it, and I'm above sharing my sources."

Is it possible they talked about reconciliation--and Mitch and crew were under the impression that if they could come to an agreement--there wouldn't be a second reconciliation package?  Maybe Pelosi and Schumer implied that reconciliation wasn't a "must" after all.  Politicians say a lot of things and then change their minds rather rapidly.  

As others have pointed out--why bother negotiating anything--if the other side is just going to cram through everything they want on the other side?  To pass something bipartisan?!  

It's a big farce if you're saying "We still get everything we want, you just get to help us decide which goes in which bill."  That's not negotiating.  That's a gigantic patronizing waste of time.  

 
jm192 said:
LOL.

As others have said:  The norm is "cite your sources."  Now, that's bunk.  You heard it and shouldn't have to cite it.  How dare anyone question you.  

Let's have a discussion other than "this is what I think, you're insane if you question it, and I'm above sharing my sources."

Is it possible they talked about reconciliation--and Mitch and crew were under the impression that if they could come to an agreement--there wouldn't be a second reconciliation package?  Maybe Pelosi and Schumer implied that reconciliation wasn't a "must" after all.  Politicians say a lot of things and then change their minds rather rapidly.  

As others have pointed out--why bother negotiating anything--if the other side is just going to cram through everything they want on the other side?  To pass something bipartisan?!  

It's a big farce if you're saying "We still get everything we want, you just get to help us decide which goes in which bill."  That's not negotiating.  That's a gigantic patronizing waste of time.  
Click to expand...
I posted a link that explained the GOP strategy, or at least assigned one to them above.  Even if you dismiss the accuracy of the article, the timing 12 days ago and the basic premise shows that the "sources" claiming the GOP negotiators were hoodwinked are not being truthful,  Tim's understanding might not be 100% but his assertion that the reconciliation bill for the non infrastructure was part of the public plan all along.  At least enough for articles to discuss GOP strategies within that context to be written.

 
The only thing surprising was how quickly Biden tied the 2 together.  But was apparent all along that bipartisan bill would be followed by another through reconciliation. 

 
One of the 11 GOP "liars" (Cassidy) now on record saying direct linkage never part of private agreement with Biden.

When asked whether he would back away if Biden and Congress create linkage, Cassidy says flatly "the bill won't pass."

Cassidy went further in a tweet on Friday. Sharing a video of his comments, he wrote: "Democratic leadership and @POTUS holding the historic bipartisan infrastructure agreement hostage was never discussed with us & was not part of the deal we agreed to."

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-accused-holding-infrastructure-deal-hostage-fresh-gop-showdown-1604386

https://twitter.com/Sabrinafox8news/status/1408526896078405638?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1408602397367312390|twgr^|twcon^s3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fjoe-biden-accused-holding-infrastructure-deal-hostage-fresh-gop-showdown-1604386

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GordonGekko
Will The GOP Push For A Nation Wide Federal Abortion Ban When It Attains Needed Majorities? (7/2/22 12:11 PST)
Replies
0
Views
235
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
Did Democrats Transition From Complacent 'Pro-Choice' To No Limit Pro Abortion Extremists? (6/28/22 21:38 PST)
Replies
11
Views
467
jon_mx
J
GordonGekko
The Atlantic: "Democrats Really Are That Dense About Climate Change" (6/23/22 01:00 PST)
Replies
47
Views
1K
Maggot Brain
Maggot Brain

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top