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Israel Under Attack : Iron Dome Failing under onslaught of rockets


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1 hour ago, [icon] said:

I'm trying to figure out if this is near the Palestinian West Bank border (what I think is most likely) or some other point along the Israeli-Jordan border.

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35 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

I'm trying to figure out if this is near the Palestinian West Bank border (what I think is most likely) or some other point along the Israeli-Jordan border.

Looks like they are marching to the West Bank, not directly into Israel.

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Kind of surprised this thread isn't getting more action. This is WW3 level stuff going on here.

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2 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

Kind of surprised this thread isn't getting more action. This is WW3 level stuff going on here.

"War is meant to kill people and destroy things"   So if you are going to get into conflicts you better have the belly for it.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2021 at 3:13 PM, Jayrod said:

Israel refuses to cede control because they fear if they do, they will not be allowed access.

Or becomes the new rocket launch points.

Edited by Sand
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Israel leveled the building holding the AP, Al-Jazeera and other media outlets today.  Gave them an hour warning and then razed it to the ground.

The press was already sympathetic to the Palestinians and this will just push most of them to full blown Palestinian supporters.  Israel is treating this like a war already and treating the Gaza strip as an enemy nation.  I believe they will take complete control and occupy the entire Gaza region when this is over, leaving just pockets of the West Bank under full Palestinian control.  They have refused all calls for a cease fire and are doing whatever they think is best.

The thing I'm most confused about is Egypt.  They seem to be providing the bare minimum of support by only allowing the injured to cross their border from Gaza.  It would be a good idea to evacuate the whole area, but Egypt won't allow it and a lot of Palestinians are simply refusing to leave.  The Egyptians have had their border with Gaza closed for years now.

I read that their birth rates are astounding there, like some of the highest in the world.  It has made Gaza City and the region as a whole very densely populated.  The fact that they are reproducing like rabbits and Egypt won't let them leave seems odd to me.  There appears to be a concerted effort to make the whole Gaza strip some kind of breeding ground for militant Muslims.  Over 1 million of them are still living in the "refugee camps" opened in 1948 & 1967.  There is essentially this belief that they will eventually move back into Israel.  I don't think Israel is agreeing to that plan anytime soon.

 

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10 hours ago, Jayrod said:

The press was already sympathetic to the Palestinians and this will just push most of them to full blown Palestinian supporters.  Israel is treating this like a war already and treating the Gaza strip as an enemy nation.  I believe they will take complete control and occupy the entire Gaza region when this is over, leaving just pockets of the West Bank under full Palestinian control.  They have refused all calls for a cease fire and are doing whatever they think is best.

I am not that tuned in to this, but I dont understand this paragraph. 

How is israel treating this like war, but the people firing rockets at them not? 

Has the other side stopped firing at them and agreed to a cease fire? 

 

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11 hours ago, Jayrod said:

Israel leveled the building holding the AP, Al-Jazeera and other media outlets today.  Gave them an hour warning and then razed it to the ground.

The press was already sympathetic to the Palestinians and this will just push most of them to full blown Palestinian supporters.  Israel is treating this like a war already and treating the Gaza strip as an enemy nation.  I believe they will take complete control and occupy the entire Gaza region when this is over, leaving just pockets of the West Bank under full Palestinian control.  They have refused all calls for a cease fire and are doing whatever they think is best.

The thing I'm most confused about is Egypt.  They seem to be providing the bare minimum of support by only allowing the injured to cross their border from Gaza.  It would be a good idea to evacuate the whole area, but Egypt won't allow it and a lot of Palestinians are simply refusing to leave.  The Egyptians have had their border with Gaza closed for years now.

I read that their birth rates are astounding there, like some of the highest in the world.  It has made Gaza City and the region as a whole very densely populated.  The fact that they are reproducing like rabbits and Egypt won't let them leave seems odd to me.  There appears to be a concerted effort to make the whole Gaza strip some kind of breeding ground for militant Muslims.  Over 1 million of them are still living in the "refugee camps" opened in 1948 & 1967.  There is essentially this belief that they will eventually move back into Israel.  I don't think Israel is agreeing to that plan anytime soon.

 

Or maybe Egypt just doesn't want the crazy seeping into their country.  Keep the militant fundamentalists contained within their own borders.

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Israel has always received bipartisan support from this country, with the left and right firmly convinced that the Israelis are the good guys. The history of the Holocaust helped this along but also created a false, unpleasant meme: that any criticism of Israel was a form of anti-semitism. 
 

Now all of this is ending. As Israel becomes more and more a nation that kills civilians, whether justified or not) while at the same time expanding its settlements under the leadership of it’s right wing political party, support for the Jewish State in this country is dividing between liberals and conservatives. And in today’s Democratic Party, old timers like Biden won’t be able to hold back the sea change of anti-Israel critics much longer, neither will the false charge of anti-semitism. 
 

None of this is good for Israel. They need to finally dump Netanyahu and put in a moderate who will stop with the settlements before it’s too late. Otherwise they’re heading to become the Apartheid South Africa of the 21st century. Despite leftist rhetoric, that hasn’t happened yet. But if and when it does Israel is doomed. 

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On 5/13/2021 at 4:13 PM, Jayrod said:

The more I read about the goings on, the more I'm convinced that the root cause of all of this is the fight over East Jerusalem.  That is really the heart of the whole fight.  According to the UN and the international community, no one is currently "in charge" of the area.  There was supposed to be some international governing body, but none was ever formed.  In reality, Israel seized control in 1967 after the 6-day war and has been actually running it ever since.  However, the Palestinians (and by extension, the entire Muslim world) call this an illegal occupation and claim the area as their capital, but they have no control there and don't have a military or an actual official governing body over both the West Bank and Gaza.

The main reason for this recent flare up was the threat of evicting a few Arab families (I've read both 4 & 6, so not sure on total count here) and restoring the property to Jewish families who have legal claims dating back to 1947.  The Muslim world is up in arms about it because it cedes more control of East Jerusalem to Israel, they started protesting more and more and the protests became physical confrontations which then Hamas has used as an excuse to start firing 100's of rockets from the Gaza strip.  The Arab world refuses to cede control of the city (despite Israel's willingness to practically share it).  Israel refuses to cede control because they fear if they do, they will not be allowed access.

I think the bolded is a hot-button issue because of years of policy of displacing Arab families in favor of Jewish settlers.  I don't have a details of this exact dispute so can't speak to it but think there has been a fundamental policy of displacing Palestanians and moving in settlers that goes back to 1948.  Just go look at the history of Lod during the 1948 war as a great example (Lod is a current flashpoint of protests).  

Clearly the Arab world has not been blameless and are equal (if not more so at blame for never ending conflict especially for starting the 1948 war and not accepting the 1947 UN proposal (which they would love to have now)).  

This current fighting has basically been an overaction by both sides.  Isreal was clearly wrong in clearing the Al-Aqsa mosque with rubber bullets and stun grenades over protest regarding Isreal settlers.  Hamas then launching rockets like crazy throughout Isreali was a gross overaction and current bombing by Isreali is the same.  Every few years things just spiral out of control and Hamas and Benjamin Netanyahu are really the only beneficiaries as they both struggle to remain in power.  Hamas needs the fighting to keep an iron grip on Gaza and Netanyahu needs it just as much to keep hanging on to Prime Minister as Isreal has been in political deadlock for years.  

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5 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

I am not that tuned in to this, but I dont understand this paragraph. 

How is israel treating this like war, but the people firing rockets at them not? 

Has the other side stopped firing at them and agreed to a cease fire?

You make good points.  The vast majority of the reports call it a clash or conflict or incident.  No one is calling it a war.  The sentiment is that because Israel is so much more capable, that they are responsible to stop first.  I don't agree with that, but it is what most media is saying.

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2 hours ago, Redwes25 said:

This current fighting has basically been an overaction by both sides.  Isreal was clearly wrong in clearing the Al-Aqsa mosque with rubber bullets and stun grenades over protest regarding Isreal settlers.  Hamas then launching rockets like crazy throughout Isreali was a gross overaction and current bombing by Isreali is the same.  Every few years things just spiral out of control and Hamas and Benjamin Netanyahu are really the only beneficiaries as they both struggle to remain in power.  Hamas needs the fighting to keep an iron grip on Gaza and Netanyahu needs it just as much to keep hanging on to Prime Minister as Isreal has been in political deadlock for years.  

This nails the majority of the current situation.  A lot of these events are crazy escalations in a vacuum, and I'm not sure more context is enough to justify what has happened.  Israel is losing a lot of their global support this week as Tim mentioned above.

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28 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

This nails the majority of the current situation.  A lot of these events are crazy escalations in a vacuum, and I'm not sure more context is enough to justify what has happened.  Israel is losing a lot of their global support this week as Tim mentioned above.

Yep.  But when you kill 50+ children in one day, it is inevitable.   This conflict is ridiculous.  Shame on both of them. 

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6 hours ago, zoonation said:

Yep.  But when you kill 50+ children in one day, it is inevitable.   This conflict is ridiculous.  Shame on both of them. 

Yeah, it's just such an impossible situation.  Both sides have valid gripes, so neither side will yield.  I put a heavier amount of blame on Israel for continuing to expand settlements through the years, knowing that doing so was just adding more tension and anger.

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26 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

Yeah, it's just such an impossible situation.  Both sides have valid gripes, so neither side will yield.  I put a heavier amount of blame on Israel for continuing to expand settlements through the years, knowing that doing so was just adding more tension and anger.

I think some Jews have the attitude that the Muslim world will hate them regardless, so F it, let's just take the whole thing.  Others think it is their birthright as God's chosen people and others simply like the idea of being in charge of somewhere for a change (or some mixture of all that).

The Holocaust was just 80 years ago.  There are still people alive that experienced that ####.  I honestly can't blame them for being a little land grabby after that plus wars in 1947 and 1967 and non-stop threats by extremist Muslims both outside and within their own borders.

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5 hours ago, bcat01 said:

Biden needs to step up and lead.  He needs to denounce Hamas and the terrorist "squad" that supports them.  This would have never happened under Trump.

It happened in part, because of Trump. 
 

But putting that argument aside, of all the claims that fans of Donald Trump have made about him over the last few years, by far the most ridiculous is that he is “Mr. Tough Guy” when it comes to foreign affairs. Quite seriously I don’t believe we have ever in our nation’s history had a bigger wimp as President. 

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12 hours ago, bcat01 said:

Biden needs to step up and lead.  He needs to denounce Hamas and the terrorist "squad" that supports them.  This would have never happened under Trump.

Denouncing, huh? 

Would  you be for Biden sending troops to the ME to help Israel?

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7 hours ago, timschochet said:

It happened in part, because of Trump. 
 

But putting that argument aside, of all the claims that fans of Donald Trump have made about him over the last few years, by far the most ridiculous is that he is “Mr. Tough Guy” when it comes to foreign affairs. Quite seriously I don’t believe we have ever in our nation’s history had a bigger wimp as President. 

Putin's lapdog? Who has managed to literally turn the GOP pro-Russia. Bet you didn't have that on your bingo card. Especially rich is the meme that the world sees Biden as soft and that's why we had the pipeline hack. Again one of those I don't know if they are disingenuous or just plain ****.

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8 hours ago, timschochet said:

It happened in part, because of Trump. 
 

But putting that argument aside, of all the claims that fans of Donald Trump have made about him over the last few years, by far the most ridiculous is that he is “Mr. Tough Guy” when it comes to foreign affairs. Quite seriously I don’t believe we have ever in our nation’s history had a bigger wimp as President. 

I hate Trump but this fighting is not because of Trump.  

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Just now, Redwes25 said:

I hate Trump but this fighting is not because of Trump.  

In part it certainly is. 
 

Trump and Kushner essentially gave Netanyahu a green light on new settlements in old Jerusalem , saying that unlike Obama and every other administration since 1967, the United States would no longer pressure the Israelis to refrain from perceived ethnic cleansing in the Jerusalem area. That’s why moving our embassy there was so unwise. 
It was these new settlements, started during the Trump administration with his acquiescence (if not outright approval) which created the most recent tensions and led to this current outbreak of violence. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Jayrod said:

I think some Jews have the attitude that the Muslim world will hate them regardless, so F it, let's just take the whole thing.  Others think it is their birthright as God's chosen people and others simply like the idea of being in charge of somewhere for a change (or some mixture of all that).

The Holocaust was just 80 years ago.  There are still people alive that experienced that ####.  I honestly can't blame them for being a little land grabby after that plus wars in 1947 and 1967 and non-stop threats by extremist Muslims both outside and within their own borders.

Dearborn MI is home to probbly the biggest ME population in the country. Ford World Heaquarters are located in Dearborn where I used to work.   Having become friends with many people from the ME that statement is pretty accurate.  

If people here think there is a white-black hate issue that is nothing compared to Muslim-Jews.  The hate I have heard from Muslim-Jew talk is way..way worse. Some really believe Israel should be wiped off the earth and have no problem it is was.  To the point you can`t even talk about it. Rashida Tlaib has been openly anti-semetic, the hate is ingrained into her soul.  At times she tones it down a little for politcal reasons but make no mistake the hate is still there.  

Edited by Da Guru
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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

In part it certainly is. 
 

Trump and Kushner essentially gave Netanyahu a green light on new settlements in old Jerusalem , saying that unlike Obama and every other administration since 1967, the United States would no longer pressure the Israelis to refrain from perceived ethnic cleansing in the Jerusalem area. That’s why moving our embassy there was so unwise. 
It was these new settlements, started during the Trump administration with his acquiescence (if not outright approval) which created the most recent tensions and led to this current outbreak of violence. 

Israel has been building settlements since the end of the 6 day war.  No matter who was the last President they would have been building settlements.  It is naive to think otherwise.  Just look at Netanyahu's actions during 2009/2010 when he refused to stop building settlements in Jerusalem when he said he was trying to negotiate a peace process even with the whole world (and the U.S. President) condemned him for it.  

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4 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Israel has been building settlements since the end of the 6 day war.  No matter who was the last President they would have been building settlements.  It is naive to think otherwise.  Just look at Netanyahu's actions during 2009/2010 when he refused to stop building settlements in Jerusalem when he said he was trying to negotiate a peace process even with the whole world (and the U.S. President) condemned him for it.  

Israel has hesitated at times, even Netanyahu when we pressured him to refrain. Trump gave him a green light. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

Israel has hesitated at times, even Netanyahu when we pressured him to refrain. Trump gave him a green light. 

What a joke, you are too blinded by hatred of Trump to have any logical discussion around it.  Go look at the entire time Netanyahu has been Prime Minister and he has not once stopped building settlements.  He put a 10 month pause on Settlements (other than Jersusalem, which is the most controversial) but that is it. This dispute goes back decades and to go blame Trump for stuff happening now is stupid.  I don't blame Biden for it either as this predates either one of them being President.     

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Just now, Redwes25 said:

What a joke, you are too blinded by hatred of Trump to have any logical discussion around it.  Go look at the entire time Netanyahu has been Prime Minister and he has not once stopped building settlements.  He put a 10 month pause on Settlements (other than Jersusalem, which is the most controversial) but that is it. This dispute goes back decades and to go blame Trump for stuff happening now is stupid.  I don't blame Biden for it either as this predates either one of them being President.     

This has nothing to do with my dislike for Trump (I don’t hate him.) I’d credit him if I could; I was talking to an Indian friend of mine the other day and I learned that Trump’s policy with regard to India and Pakistan was actually very good and an improvement on Obama’s which was more one-sided towards Pakistan. That’s something that hasn’t received much attention, so kudos go to Trump for that issue. 
But this one is the opposite. Here Trump encouraged Netanyahu, it was significantly different not just from Obama but from all previous administrations since 1967, and therefore Trump must take part of the blame here IMO. I call it as I see it. 

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https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-ex-ambassador-media-equating-israel-to-hamas-is-like-claiming-moral-equivalency-between-us-al-qaeda

I'd like to hear other's thoughts on this.  Obviously it's from an Israeli source.  But my understanding of the situation is Hamas, a terrorist organization, is blasting hundreds of rockets into Israel.  And Israel has defended themselves.  And they've started striking back--1 to slow down/weaken their attack capability and--2--to provide some degree of deterrence to future attacks.  Which--I feel like the US would do if terrorists were launching rockets into our cities.  

And I thought his take about the moral equivalent was well put.  People are quick to say Israel killed 50 Palestenians.  But Hamas is placing all of their military targets in heavily populated areas.  So Israel is trapped into having casualties by firing back.  Hamas could of course not put their weapons and other things NOT in heavily populated areas, but they choose to do so--and the media in turn is quick to say Israel should be concerned for the citizens.  But Hamas isn't.  

Feel free to educate me if I've gotten this wrong.  

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

This has nothing to do with my dislike for Trump (I don’t hate him.) I’d credit him if I could; I was talking to an Indian friend of mine the other day and I learned that Trump’s policy with regard to India and Pakistan was actually very good and an improvement on Obama’s which was more one-sided towards Pakistan. That’s something that hasn’t received much attention, so kudos go to Trump for that issue. 
But this one is the opposite. Here Trump encouraged Netanyahu, it was significantly different not just from Obama but from all previous administrations since 1967, and therefore Trump must take part of the blame here IMO. I call it as I see it. 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-ex-ambassador-media-equating-israel-to-hamas-is-like-claiming-moral-equivalency-between-us-al-qaeda

I listened to this interview last night.  This guy actually felt that Trump's actions towards Iran and helped provide stability.  He fears a nuclear deal with Iran will only push back their nuclear capabilities by 2 or 3 years--and ultimately allow them to continue to further destabilize the region.

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On 5/13/2021 at 12:30 AM, Jayrod said:

It sounds exactly like what the far right members of Israel want and already do in part.  They ultimately want to have complete control over the entire region (aka the "Promised Land") which includes Gaza and the West Bank.  Not sure what they would do with the Palestinians that lived there, but the continued establishment of settlements and increasing occupation of those areas is already taking place.

Plan Dalet comes to mind.  

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On 5/13/2021 at 1:52 PM, Godsbrother said:

What a friggin' mess.    Those blaming Trump, Biden or any other US president for this mess are out of line.   

There will never be peace in this region and neither the Palestinians nor Israelis are free from blame.   

What if you blame all of them.  The US has been enabling this for decades

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45 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

It's not occupation any more if they just annex the whole thing.

Assuming they boot the current occupants, that would be an ethnic cleansing, and a crime against humanity.  If they annex and allow Palestinians to stay and don't grant them equal rights, that's apartheid.  If they bring them in and grant them equal rights, it's not a Jewish state any longer.

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Assuming they boot the current occupants, that would be an ethnic cleansing, and a crime against humanity.  If they annex and allow Palestinians to stay and don't grant them equal rights, that's apartheid.  If they bring them in and grant them equal rights, it's not a Jewish state any longer.

So which of these have they been doing the past 73 years?

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6 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

So which of these have they been doing the past 73 years?

A very, very slow Annexation and ethnic cleansing (where there are Palestinians).  Where no Palestinians are living, it is simple land annexation of a weaker country.

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2 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

A very, very slow Annexation and ethnic cleansing (where there are Palestinians).  Where no Palestinians are living, it is simple land annexation of a weaker country.

Why does the rate at which a crime against humanity occurs a consideration?

I think most places where no Palestinians live is due to occupying forces bullying them out.

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6 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

Why does the rate at which a crime against humanity occurs a consideration?

The scale always matters when it comes to holding entire nations accountable vs. individuals.

8 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

I think most places where no Palestinians live is due to occupying forces bullying them out.

I don't know the situations of the settlement areas before they become settlement areas.  I am not educated on that topic.

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7 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

Assuming they boot the current occupants, that would be an ethnic cleansing, and a crime against humanity.  If they annex and allow Palestinians to stay and don't grant them equal rights, that's apartheid.  If they bring them in and grant them equal rights, it's not a Jewish state any longer.

The Jews have been "ethnically cleansed" from the vast majority of Muslim nations around Israel before anybody gave a crap about that kind of stuff.  Their homeland was taken from them centuries ago and they have been driven out of various nations for thousands of years, including the largest true genocide in history.

As a result, they are out for revenge and are asserting their authority whenever and wherever they can.

In 2018, they passed the "Nation State Law" which basically said Israel is Jewish, the national language is Hebrew and we are encouraging the expansion of Jewish settlements.

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5 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

The Jews have been "ethnically cleansed" from the vast majority of Muslim nations around Israel before anybody gave a crap about that kind of stuff.  Their homeland was taken from them centuries ago and they have been driven out of various nations for thousands of years, including the largest true genocide in history.

As a result, they are out for revenge and are asserting their authority whenever and wherever they can.

In 2018, they passed the "Nation State Law" which basically said Israel is Jewish, the national language is Hebrew and we are encouraging the expansion of Jewish settlements.

As a grandchild of Holocaust victims, I was sort of hoping the words “Never forget” didn’t translate to “now we have the right to treat others badly.” 

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7 hours ago, Navin Johnson said:

Why does the rate at which a crime against humanity occurs a consideration?

I think most places where no Palestinians live is due to occupying forces bullying them out.

I don't think it is a settled fact that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing.  I think they are engaging in what is more of a corporate style hostile takeover. 

In the West Bank, they are attempting to lay claim to as much of the land as possible so as to both make the Palestinians uncomfortable (so they leave) and make it nearly impossible to toss Israel out without a full blown war.  In the Gaza strip, they are simply exercise as much control as possible and cut off anything besides the very basics so as to make the Palestinians miserable so they want to leave.  I don't think Israel is all that interested in possessing Gaza, but it is more of a strategy to divide Palestine and weaken them as a whole so they don't fight their efforts in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

To be considered "ethnic cleansing" I think there would need to be an actual direct effort to forcibly remove Arabs from the region, which I don't see as actually happening.  They would like for the Palestinians to leave and are making things uncomfortable but there is no direct force applied to make them leave.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, jm192 said:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-ex-ambassador-media-equating-israel-to-hamas-is-like-claiming-moral-equivalency-between-us-al-qaeda

I'd like to hear other's thoughts on this.  Obviously it's from an Israeli source.  But my understanding of the situation is Hamas, a terrorist organization, is blasting hundreds of rockets into Israel.  And Israel has defended themselves.  And they've started striking back--1 to slow down/weaken their attack capability and--2--to provide some degree of deterrence to future attacks.  Which--I feel like the US would do if terrorists were launching rockets into our cities.  

And I thought his take about the moral equivalent was well put.  People are quick to say Israel killed 50 Palestenians.  But Hamas is placing all of their military targets in heavily populated areas.  So Israel is trapped into having casualties by firing back.  Hamas could of course not put their weapons and other things NOT in heavily populated areas, but they choose to do so--and the media in turn is quick to say Israel should be concerned for the citizens.  But Hamas isn't.  

Feel free to educate me if I've gotten this wrong.  

Here are my thoughts. If those civilians and children were Jewish, the government would not be blowing them up. It is not acceptable to kill civilians to take out terrorists in most civilized countries. I don't accept that the Israeli government is "trapped into having casualties". They have a choice. I understand it is a tough choice. I think they do more harm to their own cause by firing into populated areas than not. It seems that Palestinian children are worth less than Jewish children to the Israeli government. I realize this opinion will probably bring a firestorm, but that is what had been going through my mind and you asked for others thoughts. Please do not take this as an endorsement of Hamas or terrorism in any way.

Edited by tymarsas
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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

As a grandchild of Holocaust victims, I was sort of hoping the words “Never forget” didn’t translate to “now we have the right to treat others badly.” 

They don't translate to that.

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29 minutes ago, identikit said:

They don't translate to that.

Sorry but the Holocaust is brought up constantly as a justification for Israeli “tough behavior.” It’s been brought up a few times in this thread. It’s practically in every Netanyahu speech. 
The Holocaust ended 76 years ago. It’s not a justification for anything. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

Sorry but the Holocaust is brought up constantly as a justification for Israeli “tough behavior.” It’s been brought up a few times in this thread. It’s practically in every Netanyahu speech. 
The Holocaust ended 76 years ago. It’s not a justification for anything. 

Still doesn't translate to what you wrote.

 

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3 hours ago, Jayrod said:

I don't think it is a settled fact that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing

To be considered "ethnic cleansing" I think there would need to be an actual direct effort to forcibly remove Arabs from the region, which I don't see as actually happening.  They would like for the Palestinians to leave and are making things uncomfortable but there is no direct force applied to make them leave.

You mean like in Deir Yassin? 

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10 hours ago, Jayrod said:

The Jews have been "ethnically cleansed" from the vast majority of Muslim nations around Israel before anybody gave a crap about that kind of stuff.  Their homeland was taken from them centuries ago and they have been driven out of various nations for thousands of years, including the largest true genocide in history.

As a result, they are out for revenge and are asserting their authority whenever and wherever they can. 

In 2018, they passed the "Nation State Law" which basically said Israel is Jewish, the national language is Hebrew and we are encouraging the expansion of Jewish settlements.

I totally disagree about the revenge  comment.

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10 hours ago, Jayrod said:

The Jews have been "ethnically cleansed" from the vast majority of Muslim nations around Israel before anybody gave a crap about that kind of stuff.  Their homeland was taken from them centuries ago and they have been driven out of various nations for thousands of years, including the largest true genocide in history.

As a result, they are out for revenge and are asserting their authority whenever and wherever they can.

In 2018, they passed the "Nation State Law" which basically said Israel is Jewish, the national language is Hebrew and we are encouraging the expansion of Jewish settlements.

Past history does not allow for present day acts of revenge.  That's not a good world to live in.

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