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Remember when, around a year ago, a lot of people complained that this forum skewed left? (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
A lot of people agreed that this forum was too heavy to the left, including the owner of the website. I never bought into it. I argued at the time that it was might have been at most 60-40, and then not left, but anti-Trump- there were plenty of moderates and conservatives that were anti-Trump as well. But the prevalent point of view was that conservatives were surrounded by leftists in here. 
 

Well, if that was ever true it’s certainly changed now. Read any thread in this forum and if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices. Which is fine, I don’t care what the proportion is. Just noting the change for future reference. 
 

 
A lot of people agreed that this forum was too heavy to the left, including the owner of the website. I never bought into it. I argued at the time that it was might have been at most 60-40, and then not left, but anti-Trump- there were plenty of moderates and conservatives that were anti-Trump as well. But the prevalent point of view was that conservatives were surrounded by leftists in here. 
 

Well, if that was ever true it’s certainly changed now. Read any thread in this forum and if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices. Which is fine, I don’t care what the proportion is. Just noting the change for future reference. 
 
This simply isn't true

 
A lot of people agreed that this forum was too heavy to the left, including the owner of the website. I never bought into it. I argued at the time that it was might have been at most 60-40, and then not left, but anti-Trump- there were plenty of moderates and conservatives that were anti-Trump as well. But the prevalent point of view was that conservatives were surrounded by leftists in here. 
 

Well, if that was ever true it’s certainly changed now. Read any thread in this forum and if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices. Which is fine, I don’t care what the proportion is. Just noting the change for future reference. 
 
So there are 6 conservative voices, and that's now the majority?  

 
A lot of people agreed that this forum was too heavy to the left, including the owner of the website. I never bought into it. I argued at the time that it was might have been at most 60-40, and then not left, but anti-Trump- there were plenty of moderates and conservatives that were anti-Trump as well. But the prevalent point of view was that conservatives were surrounded by leftists in here. 
 

Well, if that was ever true it’s certainly changed now. Read any thread in this forum and if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices. Which is fine, I don’t care what the proportion is. Just noting the change for future reference. 
 
Because a lot of people have decided that attempting to engage here just isn't worth it, for various reasons... To me it seems pointless to argue with trolls, the drunk guy at the end of the bar, or those who are otherwise unreachable. It also feels like this is the intended direction for the board, so fine. Have fun with that.

 
Because a lot of people have decided that attempting to engage here just isn't worth it, for various reasons... To me it seems pointless to argue with trolls, the drunk guy at the end of the bar, or those who are otherwise unreachable. It also feels like this is the intended direction for the board, so fine. Have fun with that.
I have a lot of people on 'ignore' mostly because they don't debate anything of  value.  It's the same insane talking points over and over again.

 
Because a lot of people have decided that attempting to engage here just isn't worth it, for various reasons... To me it seems pointless to argue with trolls, the drunk guy at the end of the bar, or those who are otherwise unreachable. It also feels like this is the intended direction for the board, so fine. Have fun with that.
It's the same stuff over and over.  I enjoy being able to have a discussion.  I don't enjoy repeating the same discussion.  A lot of things quickly devolve into Trump bad and we're 8 tangents away from the first 3 tangents.  Instead of climate change there's a 3 page argument about 1 point someone took exception with that has nothing to do with the actual subject.  

A lot of discussion is "This person did dumb thing," and then a bunch of people rush to say "Well you didn't call out Trump when he said xyz but now you wanna clutch pearlz LOL OMG PEARL CLUTCHER."  Like, there is nothing that we're allowed to discuss without it being Trump and "did you criticize Trump for what you're criticizing this Democrat for?"

And most threads are just a countdown until they devolve into that. 

 
I’ve started to rethink my involvement in the PSF because it appears that there is more interest in trading insults and zingers than legitimate discussions of policy and politics. Or when there is legitimate discussion of policy and politics, it is still laced with a healthy dose of ugliness. I think the universe of folks who continue to be interested in those kinds of exchanges is more limited than the broader audience who used to frequent those discussions. 

 
I’ve started to rethink my involvement in the PSF because it appears that there is more interest in trading insults and zingers than legitimate discussions of policy and politics. Or when there is legitimate discussion of policy and politics, it is still laced with a healthy dose of ugliness. I think the universe of folks who continue to be interested in those kinds of exchanges is more limited than the broader audience who used to frequent those discussions. 
Do you think this is different than it used to be in the PSF?  

 
It's the same stuff over and over.  I enjoy being able to have a discussion.  I don't enjoy repeating the same discussion.  A lot of things quickly devolve into Trump bad and we're 8 tangents away from the first 3 tangents.  Instead of climate change there's a 3 page argument about 1 point someone took exception with that has nothing to do with the actual subject.  

A lot of discussion is "This person did dumb thing," and then a bunch of people rush to say "Well you didn't call out Trump when he said xyz but now you wanna clutch pearlz LOL OMG PEARL CLUTCHER."  Like, there is nothing that we're allowed to discuss without it being Trump and "did you criticize Trump for what you're criticizing this Democrat for?"

And most threads are just a countdown until they devolve into that. 
Regarding the bolded, I made a point a while back that the PSF would be dramatically improved if we simply eliminated the accusations of hypocrisy and simple debated the topic on its own merits. 

 
I have certainly noticed since I returned from a long hiatus that the moderation is absolutely allowing way more than they did prior to the election. And IMO, they're letting people say things regularly that would have gotten posters axed for extended periods last year. One poster alone has been writing multiple posts daily that would have gotten timeouts prior. The level of discourse is actually worse than it was when Trump was still in office.

 
Regarding the bolded, I made a point a while back that the PSF would be dramatically improved if we simply eliminated the accusations of hypocrisy and simple debated the topic on its own merits. 
I find it very hard.

Take climate change.  I'm very interested in addressing climate change and I'm open to hearing a variety of ways to deal with it.  I hardly post because I'm not interested in hearing the Joe Biden stutters and climate change is a ploy by the UN to put 5G in our brain and install jewish space lasers on the moon.

 
Regarding the bolded, I made a point a while back that the PSF would be dramatically improved if we simply eliminated the accusations of hypocrisy and simple debated the topic on its own merits. 
Yep.  It's like a 5 year old

"Oh, are you being a hypocrite!   I caught you!  Do you see it?!  Are you embarrassed, hypocrite?  I win the argument because I've caught you!  Yayy!"

That's how it reads to me.  And we have to go through that exercise time and time again.  
 

 
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He didn't say that.
"Liberal points are countered by a half dozen conservative voices"

I think the forum is still firmly Democrat by the numbers.  I think it was most accurate to say the PSF was anti-Trump.  Without looking into numbers--I assume people post a lot less since Biden has brought normalcy back.  Trump was a lightning rod for criticism.  

A lot of posters who had a lot to say about Trump are probably pretty moderate.  With Trump gone, perhaps some of the team left posts have moved more towards the middle.

 
"Liberal points are countered by a half dozen conservative voices"

I think the forum is still firmly Democrat by the numbers.  I think it was most accurate to say the PSF was anti-Trump.  Without looking into numbers--I assume people post a lot less since Biden has brought normalcy back.  Trump was a lightning rod for criticism.  

A lot of posters who had a lot to say about Trump are probably pretty moderate.  With Trump gone, perhaps some of the team left posts have moved more towards the middle.
Democrat =/= left.

 
"Liberal points are countered by a half dozen conservative voices"

I think the forum is still firmly Democrat by the numbers.  I think it was most accurate to say the PSF was anti-Trump.  Without looking into numbers--I assume people post a lot less since Biden has brought normalcy back.  Trump was a lightning rod for criticism.  

A lot of posters who had a lot to say about Trump are probably pretty moderate.  With Trump gone, perhaps some of the team left posts have moved more towards the middle.
"if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices"

That is a different intent and meaning than what you mis-quoted.

Some of the "left" posts have moved to the middle because they weren't "left" --- they were simply anti-Trump.   Some of the conservative voices who were anti-Trump (but widely perceived as RINOs) are back to being conservative.  Which IMO is a good thing.  I like diversity of thought and opinion.

 
A lot of people agreed that this forum was too heavy to the left, including the owner of the website. I never bought into it. I argued at the time that it was might have been at most 60-40, and then not left, but anti-Trump- there were plenty of moderates and conservatives that were anti-Trump as well. But the prevalent point of view was that conservatives were surrounded by leftists in here. 
 

Well, if that was ever true it’s certainly changed now. Read any thread in this forum and if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices. Which is fine, I don’t care what the proportion is. Just noting the change for future reference. 
It sure has. As they say, be careful what you wish for. In order to make this forum more hospitable to Republicans and those who lean right, it has morphed into The Geek Club V2. 

 
"if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices"

That is a different intent and meaning than what you mis-quoted.

Some of the "left" posts have moved to the middle because they weren't "left" --- they were simply anti-Trump.   Some of the conservative voices who were anti-Trump (but widely perceived as RINOs) are back to being conservative.  Which IMO is a good thing.  I like diversity of thought and opinion.
This is what I was trying to say, but you put it better.  

 
It's the same stuff over and over.  I enjoy being able to have a discussion.  I don't enjoy repeating the same discussion.  A lot of things quickly devolve into Trump bad and we're 8 tangents away from the first 3 tangents.  Instead of climate change there's a 3 page argument about 1 point someone took exception with that has nothing to do with the actual subject.  

A lot of discussion is "This person did dumb thing," and then a bunch of people rush to say "Well you didn't call out Trump when he said xyz but now you wanna clutch pearlz LOL OMG PEARL CLUTCHER."  Like, there is nothing that we're allowed to discuss without it being Trump and "did you criticize Trump for what you're criticizing this Democrat for?"

And most threads are just a countdown until they devolve into that. 


:lmao:

Try dozens and dozens of the regulars here dogpiling non left posting the last 4 years.

You gotta be ####ting me.
:goodposting:

 
"if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices"

That is a different intent and meaning than what you mis-quoted.

Some of the "left" posts have moved to the middle because they weren't "left" --- they were simply anti-Trump.   Some of the conservative voices who were anti-Trump (but widely perceived as RINOs) are back to being conservative.  Which IMO is a good thing.  I like diversity of thought and opinion.
This x 100

 
Do you think this is different than it used to be in the PSF?  
It absolutely used to be different in political threads. I remember fondly the thread where we discussed drafting a new constitution and what provisions would be included. Great discussion on policy and politics - everything from free speech rights to apportionment of representation among the states. Heady stuff. 

 
A lot of people agreed that this forum was too heavy to the left, including the owner of the website. I never bought into it. I argued at the time that it was might have been at most 60-40, and then not left, but anti-Trump- there were plenty of moderates and conservatives that were anti-Trump as well. But the prevalent point of view was that conservatives were surrounded by leftists in here. 
 

Well, if that was ever true it’s certainly changed now. Read any thread in this forum and if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices. Which is fine, I don’t care what the proportion is. Just noting the change for future reference. 
 
Problem is, as it has been stated so many times it gets old, you don't know what left is. 

 
A lot of people agreed that this forum was too heavy to the left, including the owner of the website. I never bought into it. I argued at the time that it was might have been at most 60-40, and then not left, but anti-Trump- there were plenty of moderates and conservatives that were anti-Trump as well. But the prevalent point of view was that conservatives were surrounded by leftists in here. 
 

Well, if that was ever true it’s certainly changed now. Read any thread in this forum and if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices. Which is fine, I don’t care what the proportion is. Just noting the change for future reference. 
 
Thats what happens when the other side starts playing by the same rules.

 
It absolutely used to be different in political threads. I remember fondly the thread where we discussed drafting a new constitution and what provisions would be included. Great discussion on policy and politics - everything from free speech rights to apportionment of representation among the states. Heady stuff. 
That's refreshing to hear.   I haven't experienced any of that.   Most intelligent discussion is just shut down by partisan bickering nowadays.

 
A lot of people agreed that this forum was too heavy to the left, including the owner of the website. I never bought into it. I argued at the time that it was might have been at most 60-40, and then not left, but anti-Trump- there were plenty of moderates and conservatives that were anti-Trump as well. But the prevalent point of view was that conservatives were surrounded by leftists in here. 
 

Well, if that was ever true it’s certainly changed now. Read any thread in this forum and if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices. Which is fine, I don’t care what the proportion is. Just noting the change for future reference. 
 
These people aren’t conservative. They are anti-liberal or pro trump. Anything discussing right wing issues gets a reply along the lines of “but what about the left” its boring, its tedious and does not foster good discussion.

I’ve started to rethink my involvement in the PSF because it appears that there is more interest in trading insults and zingers than legitimate discussions of policy and politics. Or when there is legitimate discussion of policy and politics, it is still laced with a healthy dose of ugliness. I think the universe of folks who continue to be interested in those kinds of exchanges is more limited than the broader audience who used to frequent those discussions. 
Its clear that good posting and honest discussion has been cast aside for many reasons. The right wing festering trolls ramp everything up to 10 and what used to attract time outs now just gets passed by. Ugly is the right word. Maybe the anti trump/left wing groups simply do not report stuff or get told to get a thicker skin and stop wasting moderators time and get the same result. Its not worth engaging here right now. 

It sure has. As they say, be careful what you wish for. In order to make this forum more hospitable to Republicans and those who lean right, it has morphed into The Geek Club V2. 
Joe had honorable intentions to try and give voice to Trump,supporters, but when good faith discussion doesnt happen when giving a little rope, people get a little tired of the same talking points every single effing time. 

 
Wow. Did someone really start this thread?  :doh:

How many times are the board liberals going to rewrite history to fit the narrative?  Skews right?  Get outta' here.

 
"if somebody offers a liberal argument, it is immediately countered by at least a half a dozen conservative voices"

That is a different intent and meaning than what you mis-quoted.

Some of the "left" posts have moved to the middle because they weren't "left" --- they were simply anti-Trump.   Some of the conservative voices who were anti-Trump (but widely perceived as RINOs) are back to being conservative.  Which IMO is a good thing.  I like diversity of thought and opinion.
This is what I was trying to say, but you put it better.  
This

 
A lot of people agreed that this forum was too heavy to the left, including the owner of the website.
I'm assuming you meant me.

I repeatedly posted facts that the approval rating for Donald Trump on the message board was dramatically less than his approval rating in national polls. I backed it with actual poll results.  

I think most everyone agreed the talk was much more the forum leaned "Anti Trump" than it did "Left". Those are not the same thing. 

Please don't put words in my mouth. 

 
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