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Remember when, around a year ago, a lot of people complained that this forum skewed left? (1 Viewer)

“Be excellent to each other” is a motto that seems to have been forgotten in this thread. In the last 24 hours, various posters have written that: 

1. My posts are garbage. 
2. I should quit the forum. 
3. @Joe Bryant should ban me from the forum. 
4. Zero respect for what I post. 
 

I don’t take any of this personally. None of you know me, or really very much about me, and you’re entitled to your opinions. But I do sense there’s an increasing anger here, and again I suspect that in most cases (not all)  it’s not with me so much as it is the substance of my arguments. So my advice is: calm down. It’s only a message board. Take a few deep breaths. If and when you want to have a civil discussion, I’m game. 

 
Well, I guess I’ll have to fondly remember pages 8-10 where some civil dissenting conversation broke through the detritus for a bit. Thank you PSF for that moment.

Now back to the regularly scheduled show the debate about denying deniers denying denying and the people that love them.  

 
timschochet said:
“Be excellent to each other” is a motto that seems to have been forgotten in this thread. In the last 24 hours, various posters have written that: 

1. My posts are garbage. 
2. I should quit the forum. 
3. @Joe Bryant should ban me from the forum. 
4. Zero respect for what I post. 
 

I don’t take any of this personally. None of you know me, or really very much about me, and you’re entitled to your opinions. But I do sense there’s an increasing anger here, and again I suspect that in most cases (not all)  it’s not with me so much as it is the substance of my arguments. So my advice is: calm down. It’s only a message board. Take a few deep breaths. If and when you want to have a civil discussion, I’m game. 
Click to expand...
As long as we agree with you.  

 
supermike80 said:
As long as we agree with you.  
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I’d prefer if you didn’t. 
 

Let’s start over shall we? Tell me what your biggest point of disagreement with me is, and why, and I will respond to you, and we can have a civil debate and discussion. You’re a smart guy; it would be enjoyable to have a debate and discussion with you, minus the insults and misrepresentation. 

 
timschochet said:
“Be excellent to each other” is a motto that seems to have been forgotten in this thread. In the last 24 hours, various posters have written that: 

1. My posts are garbage. 
2. I should quit the forum. 
3. @Joe Bryant should ban me from the forum. 
4. Zero respect for what I post. 
 

I don’t take any of this personally. None of you know me, or really very much about me, and you’re entitled to your opinions. But I do sense there’s an increasing anger here, and again I suspect that in most cases (not all)  it’s not with me so much as it is the substance of my arguments. So my advice is: calm down. It’s only a message board. Take a few deep breaths. If and when you want to have a civil discussion, I’m game. 
Click to expand...
I deny saying any of these.  

 
dkp993 said:
Well, I guess I’ll have to fondly remember pages 8-10 where some civil dissenting conversation broke through the detritus for a bit. Thank you PSF for that moment.

Now back to the regularly scheduled show the debate about denying deniers denying denying and the people that love them.  
Click to expand...
This is a valid criticism. For my part I apologize to you. 

 
timschochet said:
I’d prefer if you didn’t. 
 

Let’s start over shall we? Tell me what your biggest point of disagreement with me is, and why, and I will respond to you, and we can have a civil debate and discussion. You’re a smart guy; it would be enjoyable to have a debate and discussion with you, minus the insults and misrepresentation. 
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I appreciate the olive branch if that is what it is.  I think that ship has sailed for us however.

 
jon_mx said:
I deny saying any of these.  
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I wasn’t referring to you. 
I strongly disagree with you much of the time but you’re rarely personally rude. You maintain a civil discussion and I appreciate that. 
 

I also want to add that I really appreciated your story of personal hardships growing up. It’s true that I rejected it in terms of it being used as an argument against white privilege, but that doesn’t mean your story didn’t move me; it did. I admire the achievements you have reached in your life. 

 
timschochet said:
“Be excellent to each other” is a motto that seems to have been forgotten in this thread. In the last 24 hours, various posters have written that: 

1. My posts are garbage. 
2. I should quit the forum. 
3. @Joe Bryant should ban me from the forum. 
4. Zero respect for what I post. 
 

I don’t take any of this personally. None of you know me, or really very much about me, and you’re entitled to your opinions. But I do sense there’s an increasing anger here, and again I suspect that in most cases (not all)  it’s not with me so much as it is the substance of my arguments. So my advice is: calm down. It’s only a message board. Take a few deep breaths. If and when you want to have a civil discussion, I’m game. 
Click to expand...
On #4 above, it's a bit comical to see this just one day after you implied that you have zero respect for the individual experiences of a bunch of people in here.

On the rest, I'm a big fan of Joe's motto of being excellent to each other.   I've tried to engage you respectfully the past 24 hours.  Candidly, I don't feel like that approach was reciprocated.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
As long as we let him dictate the terms of the discussion he's game.  It's a joke.  That post was a joke; third time in 24 hours he's begging to make himself some victim here. 
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I’m not a victim. And I’m going to respond to you too.  I’ll simply put aside our past encounters. Call it an olive branch if you will. We can have a discussion if you’d like, and I’ll let you dictate the terms. 

 
timschochet said:
I’d prefer if you didn’t. 
 

Let’s start over shall we? Tell me what your biggest point of disagreement with me is, and why, and I will respond to you, and we can have a civil debate and discussion. You’re a smart guy; it would be enjoyable to have a debate and discussion with you, minus the insults and misrepresentation. 
Click to expand...
There are generally two types of posts.  1)  Posts that are clearly trolls or just gotchas / zingers.  2) Posts that are intended to be thoughtful and have a civil discussion.

In my observation you generally don't post #1.  But you think you are posting #2 and it has many of the elements of #1 in a poorly executed way that is pretty transparent.  The must frustrating element of your posts is that in nearly every argument I see you participate in you mischaracterize other's viewpoint to fit your view of "here's what I'd like to fight".

 
Alex P Keaton said:
On #4 above, it's a bit comical to see this just one day after you implied that you have zero respect for the individual experiences of a bunch of people in here.

On the rest, I'm a big fan of Joe's motto of being excellent to each other.   I've tried to engage you respectfully the past 24 hours.  Candidly, I don't feel like that approach was reciprocated.
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I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m also sorry you feel that I have zero respect for the individual experiences related here. Hopefully my post just now to @jon_mx will correct that impression. Again, I simply rejected them as a political argument against white privilege; that’s all. 

 
djmich said:
There are generally two types of posts.  1)  Posts that are clearly trolls or just gotchas / zingers.  2) Posts that are intended to be thoughtful and have a civil discussion.

In my observation you generally don't post #1.  But you think you are posting #2 and it has many of the elements of #1 in a poorly executed way that is pretty transparent.  The must frustrating element of your posts is that in nearly every argument I see you participate in you mischaracterize other's viewpoint to fit your view of "here's what I'd like to fight".
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I think this is a reasonable criticism. The easiest thing to do is to mischaracterize the other side. Everybody does it all of the time; I’m certainly no exception, though it’s something I try not to do, and often fail. Your point is a good one; I need to try harder. 

 
timschochet said:
I’d prefer if you didn’t. 
 

Let’s start over shall we? Tell me what your biggest point of disagreement with me is, and why, and I will respond to you, and we can have a civil debate and discussion. You’re a smart guy; it would be enjoyable to have a debate and discussion with you, minus the insults and misrepresentation. 
Click to expand...
Well, we've posted ad-nauseum over the last 6 pages with documentation, links and experiences. 

Pray tell, what EXACTLY don't you understand by now?  You and @Rich Conway are both continuing to use the same baseless and incorrect terms to describe people that hold views that are absolutely nuanced and layered and you guys keep saying they aren't DESPITE everything we've posted (from my first sentence).

And then you guys are also claiming that "denier" is in no way shape or form means "Nazi's" or "Holocust Deniers".  It's absurd and that is EXACTLY how that term is being used by the American Left - as a weapon to shut down any and all conversations.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
“Be excellent to each other” is a motto that seems to have been forgotten in this thread. In the last 24 hours, various posters have written that: 

1. My posts are garbage. 
2. I should quit the forum. 
3. @Joe Bryant should ban me from the forum. 
4. Zero respect for what I post. 
 

I don’t take any of this personally. None of you know me, or really very much about me, and you’re entitled to your opinions. But I do sense there’s an increasing anger here, and again I suspect that in most cases (not all)  it’s not with me so much as it is the substance of my arguments. So my advice is: calm down. It’s only a message board. Take a few deep breaths. If and when you want to have a civil discussion, I’m game. 
Click to expand...
Many from those who complain about me or others being board cops.

As often happens...complaints about things many do themselves.  
 

Seems like a normal day I guess.

 
BladeRunner said:
Well, we've posted ad-nauseum over the last 6 pages with documentation, links and experiences. 

Pray tell, what EXACTLY don't you understand by now?  You and @Rich Conway are both continuing to use the same baseless and incorrect terms to describe people that hold views that are absolutely nuanced and layered and you guys keep saying they aren't DESPITE everything we've posted (from my first sentence).

And then you guys are also claiming that "denier" is in no way shape or form means "Nazi's" or "Holocust Deniers".  It's absurd and that is EXACTLY how that term is being used by the American Left - as a weapon to shut down any and all conversations.
Click to expand...
All right. 
I disagree strongly with you about this. But I will stop using the terms denier or denial. 
 

I will however continue to argue the point that there are some issues that lack nuance. 

 
timschochet said:
“Be excellent to each other” is a motto that seems to have been forgotten in this thread. In the last 24 hours, various posters have written that: 

1. My posts are garbage. 
2. I should quit the forum. 
3. @Joe Bryant should ban me from the forum. 
4. Zero respect for what I post. 
 

I don’t take any of this personally. None of you know me, or really very much about me, and you’re entitled to your opinions. But I do sense there’s an increasing anger here, and again I suspect that in most cases (not all)  it’s not with me so much as it is the substance of my arguments. So my advice is: calm down. It’s only a message board. Take a few deep breaths. If and when you want to have a civil discussion, I’m game. 
Click to expand...
I might have missed.     I didnt see anybody say any of these things.    Ill take your word.

 
When a thread gets to the point that it's just a handful of guys talking about moderation and tone, maybe it's time just to walk away from the keyboard for a while?  You can always come back in a couple of hours and tell someone what a jerk they are if you still feel like it, but there's nothing wrong with a brief cooling off period first.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
When a thread gets to the point that it's just a handful of guys talking about moderation and tone, maybe it's time just to walk away from the keyboard for a while?  You can always come back in a couple of hours and tell someone what a jerk they are if you still feel like it, but there's nothing wrong with a brief cooling off period first.  
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YEAH?

Well the ocean called.....

 
IvanKaramazov said:
When a thread gets to the point that it's just a handful of guys talking about moderation and tone, maybe it's time just to walk away from the keyboard for a while?  You can always come back in a couple of hours and tell someone what a jerk they are if you still feel like it, but there's nothing wrong with a brief cooling off period first.  
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Kind of like a ceasefire in the Middle East.

Except that will last longer than the one in here.

Some things NEVER change here.

😢

 
IvanKaramazov said:
When a thread gets to the point that it's just a handful of guys talking about moderation and tone, maybe it's time just to walk away from the keyboard for a while?  You can always come back in a couple of hours and tell someone what a jerk they are if you still feel like it, but there's nothing wrong with a brief cooling off period first.  
Click to expand...
More good advice! 
 

I’m taking a week off. See you guys after Memorial Day. 

 
timschochet said:
“Be excellent to each other” is a motto that seems to have been forgotten in this thread. In the last 24 hours, various posters have written that: 

1. My posts are garbage. 
2. I should quit the forum. 
3. @Joe Bryant should ban me from the forum. 
4. Zero respect for what I post. 
 

I don’t take any of this personally. None of you know me, or really very much about me, and you’re entitled to your opinions. But I do sense there’s an increasing anger here, and again I suspect that in most cases (not all)  it’s not with me so much as it is the substance of my arguments. So my advice is: calm down. It’s only a message board. Take a few deep breaths. If and when you want to have a civil discussion, I’m game. 
Click to expand...
Meh, that's just another day at the office here for me.   :coffee:

 
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Joe Bryant said:
When we talk about shots at the other poster with zero comment on the actual topic, this is what we're talking about.

I have no idea what Jon said but I doubt he's saying he speaks for Jesus. 

But it's not difficult to say whether something would be in line or not with Jesus' (or anyone's) teachings. I'm guessing that's we meant. I'm guessing you know that. 

Everyone please take less shots at the other posters and do more talking on the subject. And please excuse me for doing that here but the topic I'm trying to address is how I'd like to see us communicate here on the forum.

Thanks. 
Click to expand...
So did you not read the post he was replying to?

 
BladeRunner said:
Of course you don't.  :doh:

I'll just repurpose your previous post:

"For example, I just asked @timschochet stop using "denier" terms because I find them offensive. I’m not upset with him because I don’t think he mean to be offensive. But if he does it again in response to me then I will know that it’s his intent to be offensive. "
Click to expand...
I am offended that you are offended.  If you are offended again, I will know that it was your intent to offend me.

 
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