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Are you pro-Biden or anti-Biden?


Are you pro-Biden or anti-Biden?  

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9 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Sure, you might disagree about some policy stuff, but policy stuff really doesn't matter very much in the grand scheme of things. (Mainly because there's always at least a 40% chance that you're wrong about whatever major policy stuff you disagree with others about. Policy stuff, in that respect, is like team defense in fantasy football. Often it ends up mattering in hindsight, but mostly by random chance, which means it shouldn't be a huge priority up front.)

I don’t want to hijack this thread but this strikes me as pretty out there.  Most policy decisions don’t have clear right and wrong answers, it’s about weighing various competing considerations against one another.  Given my values and my priorities, I think I’m probably at least 95% right about the direction that policy needs to go to achieve those priorities.  Policy debates aren’t akin to choosing a fantasy football team, they’re like designing the rules of your fantasy football league. Your perception of whether a rule is “right” or “wrong” are largely dependent upon what your idiosyncratic preferences are — there are rarely objectively “right” or “wrong” decisions made at that stage.

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13 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:
14 hours ago, lazyike said:

I am pro constitution, pro democracy , pro truth therefore anti Trump. Never believed in this Deep State crap. Think Biden is a decent man but think his spending plans are too much but Trumps tax cuts for billionaires added much to the deficit as well. Have no regrets about voting for Biden.But neither pro or anti Biden

This is a really good summary.

Pretty much this for me.  

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10 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

I've never done a survey or asked anyone at all, but I just assumed that pretty much everyone is a big Biden fan.

Who wouldn't be?

I mean, I know Trump fans aren't also Biden fans. But who among the non-Trump fans wouldn't be Biden fans? The idea is weird to me. Here we have a President who doesn't lie all the time about everything, doesn't obstruct justice, doesn't demand personal loyalty over all else, and wants to uphold democracy without slipping into authoritarianism ... and people aren't huge fans of all that?

Sure, you might disagree about some policy stuff, but policy stuff really doesn't matter very much in the grand scheme of things. (Mainly because there's always at least a 40% chance that you're wrong about whatever major policy stuff you disagree with others about. Policy stuff, in that respect, is like team defense in fantasy football. Often it ends up mattering in hindsight, but mostly by random chance, which means it shouldn't be a huge priority up front.)

When I think "big fan" I think of overwhelming support above and beyond because the individual goes above and beyond and exceeds my expectations.  Biden is getting us back to a sense of normalcy, which I greatly appreciate, but that I also demand/expect.  We can't allow ourselves to shift our bar so low that the basic expectations are now above any beyond expectations.

Vaccine roll out has been pretty well done.  He's crapped his pants at the border adding his name to a laundry list.  The most positive thing he's done is the roll out for sure.  I think the second most positive thing he's done is made his stuttering the pressing issue of the day that apparently is very concerning to a great many.  That's a step up from "does he really have the nuclear codes".

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I'm against just about everything Biden and Democrats stand for so I have to vote anti-Biden

I hope he far exceeds my expectations but so far he's an utter failure so ...

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22 hours ago, dozer said:

I don’t think many thought the election was illegitimate. I think he was just being held accountable for his incompetence and corruption.

It is amazing to see how far this backpedaled from where it started.

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5 minutes ago, matuski said:

It is amazing to see how far this backpedaled from where it started.

Trump was a terrible President, and probably one of the worst Americans ever, but he was elected in a free and fair election.

The attempts to remove him from office were entirely legal and appropriate.

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9 minutes ago, dozer said:

Trump was a terrible President, and probably one of the worst Americans ever, but he was elected in a free and fair election.

The attempts to remove him from office were entirely legal and appropriate.

This is the partisanship I can't ever wrap my head around.

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6 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Most policy decisions don’t have clear right and wrong answers, it’s about weighing various competing considerations against one another.  Given my values and my priorities, I think I’m probably at least 95% right about the direction that policy needs to go to achieve those priorities.

Okay, let's distinguish between policies that have right or wrong answers (they seek to address generally agreed-upon goals and either succeed or fail in doing so), and policies that simply reflect subjective preferences. (And I'm talking about situations where the populace is roughly evenly split, not where there's a 90-10 disparity.)

In the latter category, policy stuff doesn't matter precisely because there are no objectively right or wrong answers, just subjective preferences. Placing a significant emphasis on achieving your own policy goals, simply because they are your own, seems very much like saving your own dog over a human stranger simply because it is your own. Achieving your own subjective preferences is fine if there's no tradeoff against achieving somebody else's instead, but if there's a tradeoff, it seems like a wash.

In the former category, policy stuff doesn't matter because, even though there may be a right or wrong answer (some fantasy defense will outscore some other fantasy defense), you can't rationally be highly confident that you know which answer is the right one.

People generally think that they're way above average at evaluating controversial policy issues, but people also generally think they're all well-above-average drivers. An awful lot of people are deluding themselves.

It's far easier to evaluate fantasy RBs than Team Defenses because, for example, it's a lot easier to predict which RBs will get a lot of snaps and touches. So spend your first-round pick on a running back, not a defense.

It's very hard to evaluate whether a politician should take this foreign policy position or that one. That's rather complicated. But it's relatively easy to evaluate whether a politician should lie a lot, or obstruct justice, or attack the free press, etc. When politicians create separation from their opponents on the easy stuff, that's what should drive our voting preferences. We're far less likely to make mistakes if we focus on the easy stuff. Controversial policy issues are seldom easy (unless you think "dog" is an easy choice).

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11 minutes ago, matuski said:

This is the partisanship I can't ever wrap my head around.

It’s easy if you try.

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I voted neither.  But mostly because I am not American.  I am definitely an anti-Trump guy though.  For al the reasons Maurile has already articulated.  Good character is, in my opinion, a necessary but not sufficient requirement to hold office.  Especially the Presidency.  Trump has the worst character of anyone that has ever run for or held the office, and it is not particularly close.  And, in the four short years he held the office, he may have done irreparable harm to American democracy, which many predicted he would before he "took" the oath of office.  

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, dozer said:

It’s easy if you try.

Politics aren't something I get emotional about.. I can't relate and don't want to relate.

Russian collusion = stolen election.  Nothing burgers meant to rile up a partisan emotional base of voters.  Shocking how many of y'all on both sides take the bait.  It isn't even subtle anymore, it is literally fed to you as a partisan topic.

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