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Maricopa County Recount: Nightmare or Farce? (1 Viewer)

Godsbrother said:
It sounds like they do t want him involved in the process, they just want him to sign off on it.  
 

I don’t blame him for resigning, I wouldn’t put my name on something I had nothing to do with either 
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He’s back now, guess they agreed to give him access again. What a mess.

 
dkp993 said:
Because that’s not how audits work.  Those 2 ingredients are extremely important.  One MUST be able to trust the results of an audit, especially one of this importance, and we simply can’t because of exactly the bolded. 
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I have overtly limited my engagement on all things voter fraud ever since Joe's initial thread. Its content surrounded how much voter fraud we feel happened. And that basis unintentionally summarized all that I think is wrong with us. It was based on feelings; not facts. No rational person cares about one's feelings when it comes to policy. Nor should they. But that's where we are because that's who are. 

There are no feelings when it comes to a good audit. There is no bias. And there is certainly experience. But it all gets explained away because what they're saying is consistent with a segment of our society's bias. I'd like to be surprised, but it's the expectation. Cause it aligns with their feelings. What they want to believe is true. That's all that matters. And why we have the representation that we do. 

 
dozer said:
The America Project put in more than half of the money for Arizona's audit.
 

it’s a bunch of #StopTheSteal groups, who collectively pitched in $5.7m.

The $150k the Senate spent is less than any of these groups contributed.
 

The America Project, Inc. is a Delaware corporation formed in late April, whose registration appears to list no officers. Its contact address is a UPS Store in Tampa.
 
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So the company doing the “audit” is run by a pro-Trump conspiracy theorist that has public ally stated the election was stolen and the group largely financing it is unknown with a bogus address.

Nothing fishy here…

 
Godsbrother said:
So the company doing the “audit” is run by a pro-Trump conspiracy theorist that has public ally stated the election was stolen and the group largely financing it is unknown with a bogus address.

Nothing fishy here…
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And the "lab work" was done in an unknown cabin in MT.

"whAt ArE DEmS aFrAId oF??"

 
dozer said:
The America Project put in more than half of the money for Arizona's audit.
 

it’s a bunch of #StopTheSteal groups, who collectively pitched in $5.7m.

The $150k the Senate spent is less than any of these groups contributed.
 

The America Project, Inc. is a Delaware corporation formed in late April, whose registration appears to list no officers. Its contact address is a UPS Store in Tampa.
 
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America's Future, which kicked in almost $1 million for Arizona's audit, says on its website that Mike Flynn is the chairman of its board of directors.
 

Mike Flynn urged Trump to use the military to seize voting machines or force new elections.

Mike Flynn is a disgrace.

 
dozer said:
America's Future, which kicked in almost $1 million for Arizona's audit, says on its website that Mike Flynn is the chairman of its board of directors.
 

Mike Flynn urged Trump to use the military to seize voting machines or force new elections.

Mike Flynn is a disgrace.
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Hey, you gotta spend money to make money.

 
knowledge dropper said:
Great article  
 

https://pjmedia.com/election/kevindowneyjr/2021/07/28/if-there-was-no-election-fraud-why-are-dems-trying-to-stop-nationwide-audits-n1465312
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If there was no big deal about January 6th...why are Republicans trying to stop bi-partisan investigations into that day?

See how that works?

BTW...Democrats are against these shams of audits because of what they are.  Because they aren't bipartisan, they aren't legitimate audits.  There have been recounts and audits actually performed...because there is no fraud, there is no reasonable doubt about the election at this point.  There is zero evidence leading any reasonable person to think another audit is needed.  Its over...the election was secure, it was legit, Biden won.

Better to now work on how to make our elections even more secure going forward...make it even better to have more people voting safely.  Rather than the looking back that has zero to do with fraud or security.

ETA:...Calling an article great that calls the other side "commies" is ridiculous and I don't think the type of article anyone here should be looking for. And if someone wants to report this as snarky or condescending or dismissive...realize I discussed the content as well...and that type of writing in that article seems the exact point that was trying to be made by this thread.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/798249-i-wish-we-as-society-would-do-less-criticizing-just-for-being-a-member-of-a-political-party/

Isn't that the type of thing we should be dismissive of coming out of any media?

 
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sho nuff said:
If there was no big deal about January 6th...why are Republicans trying to stop bi-partisan investigations into that day?

See how that works?

BTW...Democrats are against these shams of audits because of what they are.  Because they aren't bipartisan, they aren't legitimate audits.  There have been recounts and audits actually performed...because there is no fraud, there is no reasonable doubt about the election at this point.  There is zero evidence leading any reasonable person to think another audit is needed.  Its over...the election was secure, it was legit, Biden won.

Better to now work on how to make our elections even more secure going forward...make it even better to have more people voting safely.  Rather than the looking back that has zero to do with fraud or security.

ETA:...Calling an article great that calls the other side "commies" is ridiculous and I don't think the type of article anyone here should be looking for. And if someone wants to report this as snarky or condescending or dismissive...realize I discussed the content as well...and that type of writing in that article seems the exact point that was trying to be made by this thread.

https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/798249-i-wish-we-as-society-would-do-less-criticizing-just-for-being-a-member-of-a-political-party/

Isn't that the type of thing we should be dismissive of coming out of any media?
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Whataboutisms + talking points + SOURCING!! + snark.  Well done.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
Whataboutisms + talking points + SOURCING!! + snark.  Well done.  
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 I talked directly about your article that you claimed was great.

One that called the opposition commies right from the start.

It got the snark deserving of posting something like that after being snarky and dismissive of anything from any source even slightly left biased.

Care to address any of the points made?

Or start with saying what part of that article was great...because I found much of it to be the same bogus talking point about "why are democrats scared" which seems to be a false representation of the opposition to this audit and others.

 
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knowledge dropper said:
Great article  
 

https://pjmedia.com/election/kevindowneyjr/2021/07/28/if-there-was-no-election-fraud-why-are-dems-trying-to-stop-nationwide-audits-n1465312
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Just reading the title in the link - not wasting time on the article - I would like for people to stop wasting time on whether or not Trump got trounced - cause he did - and move on from the fear and hate tactics employed by the pro audit group.

That's why I - having voted Dem - want the nonsense audits to stop.

 
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The Dude said:
Just reading the title in the link - not wasting time on the article - I would like for people to stop wasting time on whether or not Trump got trounced - cause he did - and move on from the fear and hate tactics employed by the pro audit group.

That's why I - having voted Dem - want the nonsense audits to stop.
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Takes a lot of guts to admit that after what we are seeing now with Biden/Harris.

 
sho nuff said:
 I talked directly about your article that you claimed was great.

One that called the opposition commies right from the start.

It got the snark deserving of posting something like that after being snarky and dismissive of anything from any source even slightly left biased.

Care to address any of the points made?
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What points?  It’s the same thing.  The states and counties performed reviews on samples themselves and these were not done by a third party in many cases.  You are satisfied.  Many people like myself would like to see a deeper dive by a third party.  
 

Republicans and others worried about election security have been doing good work in that area.  However, many Americans do not trust the results of the 2020 election and would like to have this investigated further as a way to unify our country behind a legitimately elected leader.  Fighting that just prolongs the division. Maybe that’s what Democrats want?

 
knowledge dropper said:
What points?  It’s the same thing.  The states and counties performed reviews on samples themselves and these were not done by a third party in many cases.  You are satisfied.  Many people like myself would like to see a deeper dive by a third party.  
 

Republicans and others worried about election security have been doing good work in that area.  However, many Americans do not trust the results of the 2020 election and would like to have this investigated further as a way to unify our country behind a legitimately elected leader.  Fighting that just prolongs the division. Maybe that’s what Democrats want?
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They were done by bipartisan groups.  Which have all come to the same conclusion.  BipartIsan Groups have ripped this cyber ninja stuff to shreds.  Seems those not satisfied will not be satisfied by anything.

What good work on actual election security has been done?  These bills in places like GA and Texas that don’t really address real election security?

Continuing to distrust everyone except Trump or Trump allies and pushing such misinformation is what continues to divide us.

Most Americans know it was a legit election and it is well passed the time to move on.  Looking back more does not help us move forward.  What you are advocating for is holding the country back.

 
sho nuff said:
They were done by bipartisan groups.  Which have all come to the same conclusion.  BipartIsan Groups have ripped this cyber ninja stuff to shreds.  Seems those not satisfied will not be satisfied by anything.

What good work on actual election security has been done?  These bills in places like GA and Texas that don’t really address real election security?

Continuing to distrust everyone except Trump or Trump allies and pushing such misinformation is what continues to divide us.

Most Americans know it was a legit election and it is well passed the time to move on.  Looking back more does not help us move forward.  What you are advocating for is holding the country back.
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I am advocating fair, safe and legitimate elections.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
I am advocating fair, safe and legitimate elections.  
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We just had one...there has been no legitimate information saying otherwise.

Bipartisan audits done...confirmed the election.  Election security experts said it was the most secure in our history.

Yet...still we see this thread and Trump fighting the results 8 months later?  And an article you called "great" calling the other side commies.

 
knowledge dropper said:
What points?  It’s the same thing.  The states and counties performed reviews on samples themselves and these were not done by a third party in many cases.  You are satisfied.  Many people like myself would like to see a deeper dive by a third party.  
 

Republicans and others worried about election security have been doing good work in that area.  However, many Americans do not trust the results of the 2020 election and would like to have this investigated further as a way to unify our country behind a legitimately elected leader.  Fighting that just prolongs the division. Maybe that’s what Democrats want?
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Many Americans do not trust the results of the 2020 election because political operatives on one side have been working to undermine that trust since before the election.

 
sho nuff said:
We just had one...there has been no legitimate information saying otherwise.

Bipartisan audits done...confirmed the election.  Election security experts said it was the most secure in our history.

Yet...still we see this thread and Trump fighting the results 8 months later?  And an article you called "great" calling the other side commies.
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YOU are satisfied because YOU spent the last 5 years chasing any flimsy thing that can feed your confirmation bias on Trump.  Many are not satisfied.  See the difference?

 
knowledge dropper said:
YOU are satisfied because YOU spent the last 5 years chasing any flimsy thing that can feed your confirmation bias on Trump.  Many are not satisfied.  See the difference?
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I find your opening premise false.

I am satisfied because of years of studies citing the lack of statistically significant voter fraud.  Im satisfied because every bipartisan audit and recount of the election has confirmed the results as true.  Im satisfied because those in charge of election security stated clearly that it was the most secure election in our history.  Im satisfied because the opposition to it being fair and secure have failed for months in providing anything to actually dispute the result.  That time after time their attempts were slapped down in court to the point some are being disciplined by the courts for their own unethical behavior.

So saying that…yes, I see the difference.  I am relying on history, statistics, expert opinion, fact and court results.  I am not relying on opinions of far right wing sources who call those who believe in the results of the election commies.

 
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8 months later, more than 60 cases dismissed or lost cases, and still not a shred of proof.  

Don't you think the GOP are giving the Democrats too much credit here?  There is no way they could be smart enough to pull off a landslide victory AND conceal all of the fraud necessary to do it.

 
sho nuff said:
I find your opening premise false.

I am satisfied because of years of studies citing the lack of statistically significant voter fraud.  Im satisfied because every bipartisan audit and recount of the election has confirmed the results as true.  Im satisfied because those in charge of election security stated clearly that it was the most secure election in our history.  Im satisfied because the opposition to it being fair and secure have failed for months in providing anything to actually dispute the result.  That time after time their attempts were slapped down in court to the point some are being disciplined by the courts for their own unethical behavior.

So saying that…yes, I see the difference.  I am relying on history, statistics, expert opinion, fact and court results.  I am not relying on opinions of far right wing sources who call those who believe in the results of the election commies.
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Great.  How many posts are you going to spend arguing with everyone that disagrees with you?  You've probably said the same thing at least 100 times in this thread. 

 
sho nuff said:
I find your opening premise false.

I am satisfied because of years of studies citing the lack of statistically significant voter fraud.  Im satisfied because every bipartisan audit and recount of the election has confirmed the results as true.  Im satisfied because those in charge of election security stated clearly that it was the most secure election in our history.  Im satisfied because the opposition to it being fair and secure have failed for months in providing anything to actually dispute the result.  That time after time their attempts were slapped down in court to the point some are being disciplined by the courts for their own unethical behavior.

So saying that…yes, I see the difference.  I am relying on history, statistics, expert opinion, fact and court results.  I am not relying on opinions of far right wing sources who call those who believe in the results of the election commies.
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So you choose to have no skepticism when the results go your way.  Cool.  I would rather be certain and there is a lot of smoke with this election. 

 
knowledge dropper said:
What points?  It’s the same thing.  The states and counties performed reviews on samples themselves and these were not done by a third party in many cases.  You are satisfied.  Many people like myself would like to see a deeper dive by a third party.  
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The post-election procedures following 2020 were the same or more stringent than any other election. What makes the 2020 election worthy of suspicion? Why now, especially given the lack of any evidence and the declaration of Trump's own guy calling it the most secure election in history?

Why is there so much suspicion on the 2020 election?

ETA: if Trump had won, would you still be calling for more scrutiny? 

 
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Amused to Death said:
The post-election procedures following 2020 were the same or more stringent than any other election. What makes the 2020 election worthy of suspicion? Why now, especially given the lack of any evidence and the declaration of Trump's own guy calling it the most secure election in history?

Why is there so much suspicion on the 2020 election?
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The support for Biden was very soft. States circumvented normal voting procedures due to the virus.  Ballot harvesting and mailed ballots were very prevalent.  Statistical anomalies were seen in many places.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
The support for Biden was very soft. States circumvented normal voting procedures due to the virus.  Ballot harvesting and mailed ballots were very prevalent.  Statistical anomalies were seen in many places.  
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And yet zero evidence of fraud. Bill Barr said so himself. Trump's own DHS called it the most secure in history.

I'd fully support a nationwide "forensic audit" if there had been even one piece of evidence presented in the 60+ court challenges.

 
knowledge dropper said:
I was very skeptical.  Trump won by a MUCH larger margin than reported.  Just not worth it since he rightfully took office.  
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So, you got the results you wanted so no need for investigations.

Got it. But now Biden won, and you can't accept it. So there MUST be fraud, you just haven't found it yet.

"Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic... that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I'd have produced that key if they hadn't of pulled the Caine out of action."

 
Amused to Death said:
And yet zero evidence of fraud. Bill Barr said so himself. Trump's own DHS called it the most secure in history.

I'd fully support a nationwide "forensic audit" if there had been even one piece of evidence presented in the 60+ court challenges.
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Your crew said Bill Barr cannot be trusted.  Now he’s okay?  Wasn’t the most secure quote related to hacking and not illegal voters, ballots and tabulations?  

 
Amused to Death said:
So, you got the results you wanted so no need for investigations.

Got it. But now Biden won, and you can't accept it. So there MUST be fraud, you just haven't found it yet.

"Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic... that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I'd have produced that key if they hadn't of pulled the Caine out of action."
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Many feel the election fraud in 2020 determined the winner.  Nobody thinks election fraud determined the winner in 2016.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
Many feel the election fraud in 2020 determined the winner.  Nobody thinks election fraud determined the winner in 2016.  
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And why do people think that? Because they have evidence or because Trump told them there was fraud? Trump started the fraud narrative in August, before a single vote had been cast. He cried fraud when Cruz beat him in the Iowa caucus. He cried fraud when Obama won in '08. He's the boy who cries wolf, only this time he has followers who all too willing to believe him strictly because its the word of Trump.

They believe him with zero evidence. None. But continue searching...you'll find that extra key, Captain Queeg.

 
knowledge dropper said:
So you choose to have no skepticism when the results go your way.  Cool.  I would rather be certain and there is a lot of smoke with this election. 
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It wasn't about the results going my way.  I think that is clear from what I posted.

There is no smoke.  None.  That has been shown by every legitimate recount, court case, and audit already done.

 
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