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Driving the speed limit? (1 Viewer)

Otis

Footballguy
I’m always confounded by the lunatics who drive exactly the speed limit.  A speed limit automatically to me says we should be driving a good 5-10mph above that figure, without hesitation.  So when someone in front of me is driving 35 in a 35, I find it maddening.

Am I wrong about this? 

O

 
depends on the road. If it's a  through street, 5 to 10 over. If it's inside a residential development,  yeah I try not to speed. That's basically telling the neighbors I don't care if your kids are outside or you're trying to back out of your driveway, I got somewhere to be.

 
depends on the road. If it's a  through street, 5 to 10 over. If it's inside a residential development,  yeah I try not to speed. That's basically telling the neighbors I don't care if your kids are outside or you're trying to back out of your driveway, I got somewhere to be.
I should have noted the only caveat - school zones, I basically stay right around the speed limit.  You don’t mess with kids.  

 
I’m always confounded by the lunatics who drive exactly the speed limit.  A speed limit automatically to me says we should be driving a good 5-10mph above that figure, without hesitation.  So when someone in front of me is driving 35 in a 35, I find it maddening.

Am I wrong about this? 

O
When I was teaching my boys how to drive, I told them “don’t drive the exact speed limit, It means you’re hiding something and people will think you’re weird. Go 5 over.”

 
Its bizarre how we handle speed limits as a country. 

The speed limit is supposed to be an upper limit, not a lower limit.  But enforcement is haphazard so people treat it as a lower limit like you do, knowing that most cops won't pull someone over for going 5 over, even if they do, you're playing the odds that it won't be you who gets pulled over, and then that you'll be able to talk your way out of it or beat it in court.

At no point in the average person's calculus does the risk of death or serious accident even play a part - it's the ticket. 

And the state has zero motivation to change this because they literally build their budget around a certain number of tickets and the cost of enforcing them.  We pay the state to hire officers, buy cars and radar and sometimes even aircraft, build court rooms and hire judges and mail tickets and process fines and report to car insurance companies so we can have the speed limits we refuse to obey. 

And we just kind of accept it because we know if there were no speed limits, more people would drive recklessly at ridiculous speeds around other people who aren't skilled enough to share the road with them.  

The lawmakers are not unaware of this, and know that if they raise the speed limit from 65 to 70 then people will go 75-80 instead of 70-75.  So their decisions are based around the data for people going 75 vs 80, not 65 vs 70, because they know people will speed. 

And the cops know that all of this is true so most of them treat the speed limit of 65 as 70-75 but when you're driving, you don't know which because you don't know if there's any cop ahead, let alone what their personal interpretation of the speed limit is.  

So you're in this weird prisoner's dilemma where you really should treat the speed limit as an upper limit if everyone else did too but it's so clear that they won't that you are wasting time if you don't speed. But then because everyone is forced into speeding, it's maybe even more dangerous to other cars if you actually obey the speed limit, because a cluster of cars going 70 catching up to a guy going 65 is going to mean a lot of braking and lane changing and that's the most dangerous thing on a highway. 

So the right answer is really flow of traffic, and 5 to 10 over the limit unless you see a cop, see brake lights ahead, or traffic conditions suck.

With three exceptions.

One, if you are in the middle of nowhere and there's no cars nearby you should always assume there's a cop because you don't have the protection of other cars to keep you from being the one who gets the ticket if you do get caught on radar. Wait for someone speeding way more than you to pass you, then follow them about a half mile back and slightly slower so they're the ones who get tagged. 

Two, if there's a change in speed limit, like a smaller highway that goes through a town center and the speed limit drops from 50 to 30, there will always be a cop waiting. Same thing with work zones where they double fines.  Just not worth the risk to shave ten seconds off your trip. 

And three if there's people at risk- a residential neighborhood, school zone, work zone with actual work being done, a cop outside their car, a big truck with an oversized load, a possibly drunk driver, a student driver, people who seem uncomfortable driving in the rain even though its only rain... whatever... just ####### slow down.  

Man I am really procrastinating going for this run 

 
Speed limit is really more of a suggestion, right? 

I'm typically 5-9 over on a highway. I have no reason to speed on a residential road, the  twenty seconds I would save isn't that important. 

ETA: my general rule is simply don't be the fastest car on the road so I'm not the one that gets the ticket (if there is a cop, I hope there is only one). 

 
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If cities really wanted to defund the police and better use their assets - use more cameras and use the police to fight crime.

 
At no point in the average person's calculus does the risk of death or serious accident even play a part - it's the ticket. 
I’ll be honest Gb, I ain’t reading all that. But I got to here. And I strongly disagree. 
 

I drive smart, safely, and defensively. You can drive very fast in today’s modern vehicles and still be very safe.  I’m not one of these idiots who tailgates at 80mph, drives 20 over the limit in town alongside a bunch of parked cars, where a door could open or a kid could run out where I can’t see.  Speed has little to do with safety if you’re smart.  The idiots who don’t signal and tailgate and don’t understand the laws of physics or account for risks?  I wish they would all perish in a big fire.  But I’ve never had an accident in my life (knock wood), and I rarely drive the speed limit. 

 
Glorified meter maids, collecting cute little fines for the local muni. 
Not disagreeing with you, but it't basically free money.  Now as a trucker, I'll drive the spoeed limit or 5 MPH over max.  The police would rather stop me than you, the fines are much larger.

 
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At no point in the average person's calculus does the risk of death or serious accident even play a part - it's the ticket. 
I’ll be honest Gb, I ain’t reading all that. But I got to here. And I strongly disagree. 
I'm not going to read past this then. How do you feel?   Guess what, I'll never know because I'm not going to read your answer either.  I bet you had a strong rebuttal too but I dooonnnnnt caaaaaarrrreeeeee

 
I just did a cross (half) country trip and have done a ton of road-tripping since the pandemic.

By far the widest ranging problem is the sheer amount of drivers that stay in the left lane, making others find a way around them.  Many oblivious.  They need to educate the public more, you rarely see the "slower traffic keep right" signs anymore.  And cops need to start doling out tickets for it.  I know they are in some states but no idea how that's going.

As for the drivers that stay in the left lane, all the while knowing cars are behind them waiting to get by?  That's a special kind of #######.  One in particular I would notice was massive truck guy.  Of no surprise.  It's his world, his highway.

 
As a Dad who is currently teaching his 16 year old to drive and prepping him to take his driving test, I would just say that rather than get angry at someone going exactly the speed limit, perhaps consider that there may be circumstances that you aren't aware of that are a factor in that person not driving 5-10 MPH over the limit. 

 
As a Dad who is currently teaching his 16 year old to drive and prepping him to take his driving test, I would just say that rather than get angry at someone going exactly the speed limit, perhaps consider that there may be circumstances that you aren't aware of that are a factor in that person not driving 5-10 MPH over the limit. 
I’m cool with that. Just take those circumstances into the right lane at least?

 
I’ve gone to “traffic school” 3 times, including once in person.  All because of “speeding.”  Our speed limit enforcement is absurd.

(note:  except for some of the special situations mentioned in here, e.g. school zones)

 
After a few tickets in a very short time span for things like 3 to 4 mph over the speed limit (small town at the time), I became that guy. Sorry, but I'm just no longer interested in having to go by the police substation to pay a ticket, nor sit through an online driving course so my rates don't go up. I bet it costs my 30 seconds a day if that. Though I do admit I find it entertaining  to watch people drag race between street lights, only to have me end up side by side with them at each and every one.

 
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After a few tickets in a very short time span for things like 3 to 4 mph over the speed limit (small town at the time), I became that guy. Sorry, but I'm just no longer interested in having to go by the police substation to pay a ticket, nor sit through an online driving course so my rates don't go up. I bet it costs my 30 sends a day if that. Though I do admit I find it entertaining  to watch people drag race between street lights, only to have me end up side by side with them at each and every one.
Imagine going to an 8-hour in person traffic school.   That experience got me to today, where I rarely go more than 5mph above the speed limit.

 
My advice is don’t speed when you’re driving in a residential area. My friend’s mother lives in my neighborhood and she was just killed a few weeks ago while out on a walk by a driver who was speeding in the neighborhood. My friend and her entire family are absolutely devastated. And the 17-year-old who was speeding?  His life is changed forever.  It’s just not worth it. And it’s certainly not worth it to be annoyed with other people who obey the speed limit while driving through a residential area.

p.s. He was not on his phone in case people are thinking that. The police confirmed that the battery in his phone had died earlier in the evening. 

 
I should have noted the only caveat - school zones, I basically stay right around the speed limit.  You don’t mess with kids.  
Kids play in neighborhoods as well. And Grandmothers go for walks. Apologies if I’m a touch overly sensitive to this topic. I just went to her memorial service a couple weeks ago. 

 
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I’m cool with that. Just take those circumstances into the right lane at least?
Oh yeah, obviously.  You'd be amazed though at the number of a-holes who come bombing up on a kid driving the speed limit in the right lane.  

 
Other drivers driving the speed limit doesn't bother me. It is the drivers that insist on driving below the speed limit that irk me. I used to work with a lady that would say it is a speed "limit" that should only apply to 100% confident drivers during 100% perfect road conditions. She was a nervous driver, so was always driving below the speed limit.

 
I just did a cross (half) country trip and have done a ton of road-tripping since the pandemic.

By far the widest ranging problem is the sheer amount of drivers that stay in the left lane, making others find a way around them.  Many oblivious.  They need to educate the public more, you rarely see the "slower traffic keep right" signs anymore.  And cops need to start doling out tickets for it.  I know they are in some states but no idea how that's going.

As for the drivers that stay in the left lane, all the while knowing cars are behind them waiting to get by?  That's a special kind of #######.  One in particular I would notice was massive truck guy.  Of no surprise.  It's his world, his highway.
Fyi, 80 plus percent of the time slow drivers in left lane are messing with their phones.  As someone who commutes to work 60 miles a day.  The worst is when you pass them, they probably get off their phone and ride your tail.

 
Its bizarre how we handle speed limits as a country. 

The speed limit is supposed to be an upper limit, not a lower limit.  But enforcement is haphazard so people treat it as a lower limit like you do, knowing that most cops won't pull someone over for going 5 over, even if they do, you're playing the odds that it won't be you who gets pulled over, and then that you'll be able to talk your way out of it or beat it in court.

At no point in the average person's calculus does the risk of death or serious accident even play a part - it's the ticket. 

And the state has zero motivation to change this because they literally build their budget around a certain number of tickets and the cost of enforcing them.  We pay the state to hire officers, buy cars and radar and sometimes even aircraft, build court rooms and hire judges and mail tickets and process fines and report to car insurance companies so we can have the speed limits we refuse to obey. 

And we just kind of accept it because we know if there were no speed limits, more people would drive recklessly at ridiculous speeds around other people who aren't skilled enough to share the road with them.  

The lawmakers are not unaware of this, and know that if they raise the speed limit from 65 to 70 then people will go 75-80 instead of 70-75.  So their decisions are based around the data for people going 75 vs 80, not 65 vs 70, because they know people will speed. 

And the cops know that all of this is true so most of them treat the speed limit of 65 as 70-75 but when you're driving, you don't know which because you don't know if there's any cop ahead, let alone what their personal interpretation of the speed limit is.  

So you're in this weird prisoner's dilemma where you really should treat the speed limit as an upper limit if everyone else did too but it's so clear that they won't that you are wasting time if you don't speed. But then because everyone is forced into speeding, it's maybe even more dangerous to other cars if you actually obey the speed limit, because a cluster of cars going 70 catching up to a guy going 65 is going to mean a lot of braking and lane changing and that's the most dangerous thing on a highway. 

So the right answer is really flow of traffic, and 5 to 10 over the limit unless you see a cop, see brake lights ahead, or traffic conditions suck.

With three exceptions.

One, if you are in the middle of nowhere and there's no cars nearby you should always assume there's a cop because you don't have the protection of other cars to keep you from being the one who gets the ticket if you do get caught on radar. Wait for someone speeding way more than you to pass you, then follow them about a half mile back and slightly slower so they're the ones who get tagged. 

Two, if there's a change in speed limit, like a smaller highway that goes through a town center and the speed limit drops from 50 to 30, there will always be a cop waiting. Same thing with work zones where they double fines.  Just not worth the risk to shave ten seconds off your trip. 

And three if there's people at risk- a residential neighborhood, school zone, work zone with actual work being done, a cop outside their car, a big truck with an oversized load, a possibly drunk driver, a student driver, people who seem uncomfortable driving in the rain even though its only rain... whatever... just ####### slow down.  

Man I am really procrastinating going for this run 
Great post, and I agree with most of what you've said. Some of you arguments also apply to our high (relative) BAC limits, but I'll save that discussion for another thread.

The one caveat I'll add is car technology has improved significantly since many speed limits were set - initially with things like ABS, airbags and traction control, and more recently with smart collision avoidance features, blind spot sensors, autopilot, etc. While there probably is an absolute number commensurate with human reaction times, I'll argue safety features may warrant revision of speed limits in some places.

As for the OP, I hate driving the speed limit, and HI has the lowest max (60 MPH, on a single road) in the country. I typically go 5-10 MPH over on smaller roads, up to 15 on the highway. There was a period earlier in my life when I'd routinely go 20+ over the limit, and just accepted speeding tickets as a cost of living. But with maturity and declining vision/reaction times, I've slowed down quite a bit.

 
After a few tickets in a very short time span for things like 3 to 4 mph over the speed limit (small town at the time), I became that guy. Sorry, but I'm just no longer interested in having to go by the police substation to pay a ticket, nor sit through an online driving course so my rates don't go up. I bet it costs my 30 seconds a day if that. Though I do admit I find it entertaining  to watch people drag race between street lights, only to have me end up side by side with them at each and every one.
You’ve gotten a ticket for 3mph over the limit?  Where do you live?

 
I typically go 5-10 MPH over on smaller roads, up to 15 on the highway. There was a period earlier in my life when I'd routinely go 20+ over the limit, and just accepted speeding tickets as a cost of living. But with maturity and declining vision/reaction times, I've slowed down quite a bit.
This is about where I am. 

 
Kids play in neighborhoods as well. And Grandmothers go for walks. Apologies if I’m a touch overly sensitive to this topic. I just went to her memorial service a couple weeks ago. 
Sorry for your loss and the family’s loss GB. Sounds awful, and tragic.  I don’t think it’s inconsistent with any of my points in here. People should drive safely, for sure, and that means a lot of different things that are very context specific.  

 
I just did a cross (half) country trip and have done a ton of road-tripping since the pandemic.

By far the widest ranging problem is the sheer amount of drivers that stay in the left lane, making others find a way around them.  Many oblivious.  They need to educate the public more, you rarely see the "slower traffic keep right" signs anymore.  And cops need to start doling out tickets for it.  I know they are in some states but no idea how that's going.

As for the drivers that stay in the left lane, all the while knowing cars are behind them waiting to get by?  That's a special kind of #######.  One in particular I would notice was massive truck guy.  Of no surprise.  It's his world, his highway.
Many truckers stay in the middle lane in freeways where there are a lot of exits.  If they are in the right lane all of the time, cars do not let him move over a lane so merging traffic can enter.  That is a potential accident right there.  Ive seen many cars try to speed around me, figuring I can just stop.

 
Many truckers stay in the middle lane in freeways where there are a lot of exits.  If they are in the right lane all of the time, cars do not let him move over a lane so merging traffic can enter.  That is a potential accident right there.  Ive seen many cars try to speed around me, figuring I can just stop.
do truckers have gps that tracks how fast they go because sometimes they get in the fast left lane and only go like 1 or 2 over to get around another truck before moving back over and i have always wondered why they do not just speed up for a bit thanks for answering of you can take that to the bank brohan

 
Sorry for your loss and the family’s loss GB. Sounds awful, and tragic.  I don’t think it’s inconsistent with any of my points in here. People should drive safely, for sure, and that means a lot of different things that are very context specific.  
Thanks man. Appreciate the kind words. But I’ll note that your OP wasn’t context specific - you stated that a “speed limit automatically to me says we should be driving a good 5-10mph above that figure, without hesitation.”  Automatically, and without hesitation. That’s not a context specific statement, at least with respect to speed. You did acknowledge your “only” caveat - school zones, because you “don’t mess with kids.” My point is that when you’re driving in a neighborhood, kids are very much a concern (as are adult pedestrians).  So maybe consider adding neighborhoods as an additional caveat to your automatically drive 5-10 mph above the speed limit guideline?  But even if you don’t, you shouldn’t be getting annoyed at people who do drive the speed limit in neighborhoods and calling them lunatics. My two cents. 

Edit to add:  Default neighborhood speed limit in Texas is 30mph. You’re correct that people regularly drive 35-40 down neighborhood streets.

 
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You’ve gotten a ticket for 3mph over the limit?  Where do you live?
At the time, Schertz/Cibolo, TX. It may have been retaliation for the lack of a gun rack in my rear window, I don't know. But I've driven the speed limit ever since. Unless I'm being tailgated, in which case I'll begin slowing down until the message is received.

 
As others have said, definitely go closer to the speed limit in residential areas. 

I almost hit a dog last night that was in the middle of the road.  It was at night and the idiotic owner was walking the dog without a leash. 

 
There are many places where the left lane exists onto another interstate. If you don't get into the "fastlane" soon enough, your SOL.

 
As others have said, definitely go closer to the speed limit in residential areas. 

I almost hit a dog last night that was in the middle of the road.  It was at night and the idiotic owner was walking the dog without a leash. 
And you probably got a dirty look from the dog's owner for almost hitting the dog, right?

 
And you probably got a dirty look from the dog's owner for almost hitting the dog, right?
Actually, didn't see the guy's face or talk to him after the event.  I swerved/slammed on brakes and after I thought didn't hit the dog, I pulled over to make sure.  The dog was running up the road in the distance with the owner.  He seemed to not give two #####. 

And @Otis, it was a pitbull.  See.....it's more the owner than the breed.  :hijack:

 
As for better technology in vehicles, when in my daily driver, it's fine to go faster. I drive a 2005 F350 diesel when I take my RV to the mountains,  and then situations change. I have great trailer brakes and the pickup is in great condition. I'm still not going to go over the speed limit. Probably 5 miles under in most situations. 

 
Thanks man. Appreciate the kind words. But I’ll note that your OP wasn’t context specific - you stated that a “speed limit automatically to me says we should be driving a good 5-10mph above that figure, without hesitation.”  Automatically, and without hesitation. That’s not a context specific statement, at least with respect to speed. You did acknowledge your “only” caveat - school zones, because you “don’t mess with kids.” My point is that when you’re driving in a neighborhood, kids are very much a concern (as are adult pedestrians).  So maybe consider adding neighborhoods as an additional caveat to your automatically drive 5-10 mph above the speed limit guideline?  But even if you don’t, you shouldn’t be getting annoyed at people who do drive the speed limit in neighborhoods and calling them lunatics. My two cents. 

Edit to add:  Default neighborhood speed limit in Texas is 30mph. You’re correct that people regularly drive 35-40 down neighborhood streets.
Didn’t intend for my words to be dissected at that level. I’m thinking mostly about highway or main road driving. Even in neighborhoods I think it can be fine to go over the limit under the right circumstances—ie, clear day, wide open roads where I could spot way into advance anyone coming into the street, etc. Yes there are idiots who fly recklessly around my local neighborhood too, and that’s super annoying. But that’s a different beast altogether. 
 

My main point, don’t be the annoying guy driving 35 in a 35 when there are 5 cars lined up behind you and it’s plenty safe to do 40 or 45. Do people even use their mirrors?
 

But of course, don’t drive like an idiot either. I’m willing to bet 90% or accidents are not a result of speed, but a result of poor driving. Drive defensively. Give yourself and others plenty of room to stop quickly, to react to a kid running into a street or a car door opening. It’s really not that difficult. But people are stupid and consider none of these things and just drive like meatheads. Hence accidents. 

 
Our neighborhood speed limit is 25mph.  We are a small neighborhood,  you know  bunch of kids out playing etc.  It drives me nuts when people live here drive fast, and tbh 25 is way too fast through the neighborhood
I also believe there are situations where the posted speed limit is way too fast. If it’s a narrow road with lots of parked cars blocking your view; if it’s poor weather conditions etc; those posted limits may be way too high.  
 

In this thread I’m not talking about the 2 minutes of local residential road driving it takes to get to the main roads.  It’s driving on the main roads/highways/etc. That’s what drives me batty. I was just out of a 3 hour drive home on highways yesterday, and that’s what I had in mind. 

 
Actually, didn't see the guy's face or talk to him after the event.  I swerved/slammed on brakes and after I thought didn't hit the dog, I pulled over to make sure.  The dog was running up the road in the distance with the owner.  He seemed to not give two #####. 

And @Otis, it was a pitbull.  See.....it's more the owner than the breed.  :hijack:
The owner and breed were made for each other. 

 
At the time, Schertz/Cibolo, TX. It may have been retaliation for the lack of a gun rack in my rear window, I don't know. But I've driven the speed limit ever since. Unless I'm being tailgated, in which case I'll begin slowing down until the message is received.
That’s absurd. I would laugh at an officer if he pulled me over for 3mph over the limit. 
 

In the Northeast, you’re absolutely safe and will never be pulled over at 10mph over the posted limit, absent some extenuating circumstance (busted tail lights; ripping through a 20mph school zone; etc).  I set my cruise at 10 over, sometimes 15 or 20 over, but I’ll slow down to 10 over if my radar detector triggers. 

 
I also believe there are situations where the posted speed limit is way too fast. If it’s a narrow road with lots of parked cars blocking your view; if it’s poor weather conditions etc; those posted limits may be way too high.  
 

In this thread I’m not talking about the 2 minutes of local residential road driving it takes to get to the main roads.  It’s driving on the main roads/highways/etc. That’s what drives me batty. I was just out of a 3 hour drive home on highways yesterday, and that’s what I had in mind. 
I was just making a general statement about our neighborhood since that was being discussed, I wasn't suggesting anything about you :).  I'm also a guy that does 100 regularly so yeah. I adjust accordingly :)

 
That’s absurd. I would laugh at an officer if he pulled me over for 3mph over the limit. 
 

In the Northeast, you’re absolutely safe and will never be pulled over at 10mph over the posted limit, absent some extenuating circumstance (busted tail lights; ripping through a 20mph school zone; etc).  I set my cruise at 10 over, sometimes 15 or 20 over, but I’ll slow down to 10 over if my radar detector triggers. 
My magic number is 9 over. I’m talking about major roads though. Neighborhoods I go speed limit or slightly under depending on conditions.
 

Also, I’ve never heard anyone getting a ticket 3-4 over. Crazy. 

 
In the Northeast, you’re absolutely safe and will never be pulled over at 10mph over the posted limit, absent some extenuating circumstance (busted tail lights; ripping through a 20mph school zone; etc).  I set my cruise at 10 over, sometimes 15 or 20 over, but I’ll slow down to 10 over if my radar detector triggers. 
If you drive through Wisconsin with an Illinois license plate......at 10-20 over......you will get ticketed a lot.   Somewhere between 5-10 over is safe in a lot of the Midwest (at least in my experience).   15-20 over definitely gets you a ticket.   When I was younger the rule of thumb was don't go more than 7mph over the limit.

 
I drive like a grandma. Speed limit in the city and probably 5 over on the highway. But I always stay in the right lane.  Got plenty of tickets as a young driver and it's just not worth it anymore. Plus I need to set an example for my kids to be respectful on the road.

On a side note, the people that walk in the street when there is a perfectly good sidewalk 5 feet away can walk the treadmill in hell for eternity.

 
The majority of accidents aren't due to speed (you are correct), they are due to distracted driving in one form or another.
That would not surprise me. I also believe, without hard data to back it up, that most of the accidents that did NOT result from distracted driving could have been prevented with good sound defensive driving, i.e., one car length between you and the guy in front of you at 80mph is a terrible idea, dummy. 

 
And by the way, there is a special place in the universe for the people who drive the speed limit in the left lane.  What I don’t get is that everyone seems to universally agree on this point—so then who the heck are those people??!

 

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