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Campingguys -- Any and all advice welcome for upcoming trip (1 Viewer)

gianmarco

gianmarco

Footballguy
We are sending our 16 year old on a 3 week camping trip/excursion later this month. The trip is up in Wyoming and will include a variety of activities including climbing, hiking, rafting.

There's an extensive packing and equipment list which we've gone through and pretty much gotten at this point. As he's still on the slight side (115 pounds) and will be carrying a decent amount of weight (35-40 pounds to start each week that will go down each day), we tried to focus on getting things that were lightweight.

Anyway, as I have essentially no experience with camping, I'm open to any tips and tricks I can try and pass along for when he leaves. The camp group he will be with will be teaching them everything they need to know, no experience is necessary, but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask here.

One basic question I had with him traveling there was how to even send the backpack. It's a 70L pack. Do we pack it in a suitcase? Fill it with supplies and just check it in as is? Something else?

Will hang up and listen.

 
That's a lot of weight for his frame but understand that it may be required since he's carrying a week of food.  Some random thoughts top of head and I will add more later:

  • Have him immediately start walking/hiking with close to his carry weight around the neighborhood.
  • Did you have his pack professional fitted?  It's worth it and a place like REI will help.  Carrying that much weight it's important to have the pack hitting on the right spots (hips)
  • The best place to carry your water is in your belly - tell him any chances to drink, drink.  If water sources will be plentiful then it may not be necessary to carry a lot of water.
  • Make sure he has a dry sack for his food and clothes - potentially 2.  Also, I line the inside of my pack with a garbage bag for extra rain protection
  • Wool socks, comfortable but sturdy shoes
  • Head lamps are very useful and much better than flashlights
  • He's young so may not need a sleeping pad but as an adult I can't go out without one
  • If it's a large enough group not everyone has to bring each thing (unless they require it) - Thinking things like fire starters, trowel, water filtration - it's potentially good to go ahead just to be safe but maybe discuss with the camp.
  • Not sure how much elevation there will be or what the terrain will be like but potentially hiking sticks can be a life saver (literally).
  • Make sure he knows how to put up and take down his tent easily.
I'm sure I'll think of more.  Sound exciting!

 
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belljr said:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IBVUY6Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_CZTFN61HH680N96JZJT4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
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Absolutely - tell your kid to put it on every morning.  Must take care of feet for them to take care of you.  Blisters suck.

List of high calorie foods - https://www.greenbelly.co/pages/best-high-calorie-backpacking-foods .  Higher the calorie content the less weight.  Chocolate is good, spiking food with olive oil is good, nuts of all types are good.

I assume he'll need a bear canister and bear spray?  https://www.backcountry.com/bear-vault-bv500-bear-resistant-food-canister?CMP_SKU=BRV0004  Depending on where up there it can be grizzly country.  

Oh, and get one of these.  I mean, he's going to sneak one in anyway, might as well make sure it's light.

 
Sand said:
I assume he'll need a bear canister and bear spray?  https://www.backcountry.com/bear-vault-bv500-bear-resistant-food-canister?CMP_SKU=BRV0004  Depending on where up there it can be grizzly country. 
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A canister may also be something that the camp guides can carry and multiple people use.  But this reminds me - if this is bear country then a couple other things that may be important - deodorant, shampoo/soap - get unscented camping specific.  Also, make sure he's faster than at least one of the other kids.  With the way Mrs. Gian runs I think he's safe but maybe he got Dad's running genes.

 
Clothing - light and thin (makes packing easier).  Also think multi-purpose where possible.  He could take an inflatable pillow or he could use his dry sack with his clothes in it as a pillow.

 
AAABatteries said:
A canister may also be something that the camp guides can carry and multiple people use.  But this reminds me - if this is bear country then a couple other things that may be important - deodorant, shampoo/soap - get unscented camping specific.  Also, make sure he's faster than at least one of the other kids.  With the way Mrs. Gian runs I think he's safe but maybe he got Dad's running genes.
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If he's carrying a week's worth of food that will fill a canister.  I would hope they sent something to you on that as dealing with bears is a big item.

Yeah - if memory serves some of WY is grizzly country and some isn't?  Sorry, memory sucks. Where is he going?  I really, really want to go out into the Wind River area - supposed to be amazing.  

 
Sand said:
If he's carrying a week's worth of food that will fill a canister.  I would hope they sent something to you on that as dealing with bears is a big item.

Yeah - if memory serves some of WY is grizzly country and some isn't?  Sorry, memory sucks. Where is he going?  I really, really want to go out into the Wind River area - supposed to be amazing.  
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Yeah - they make some huge ones so maybe they can share.  If they do this all the time they may have something in place to cover that.

@gianmarco - one other thing around that is even close food or sealed bags/dried food it's good to have a large ziplock to carry it all in.  Get a titanium spork for meals.

 
One of the essential pieces of equipment for this old guy is a pair of old, lightweight flip-flops.  After hiking all day the last thing I want to do is where hiking boots at camp all evening.  I normally just hang them off a carabiner on my pack.  When he takes his socks off make sure he lays them out to dry (I'm assuming he won't carry more than one extra pair.

I want to stress again - that's a lot of weight for a kid to carry.  Fill his pack with heavy books or weights and let him get used to carrying it.  I think the recommendation is to be around 20% of your body weight.  He's going to be at 35% if he's carrying 40lbs @ 115.

 
Yikes, that is a lot of weight and a giant bag.  He needs to get out and walk with it every day to see how things hold up... it sounds like trouble for his feet at least. 

The trekking poles recommendation is a good one. 

Are they sleeping in tents or shelters?  My guess is that his tent is way too heavy. 

 
Sand said:
A cheap, light option.  

Also, this may be dumb, but for my next trip (leaving tomorrow), I bought this.  It's going to double as my bowl and while out there amuse myself trying to find gold.  With a group of teens it may be a hit.
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I use this or a version of it.  You can brew coffee in it, heat water for dehydrated meals, use it for oatmeal and most importantly, drink whiskey out of it.

 
Have him pack and unpack his bag multiple times.  Figure out the best way to pack it.  Both from a comfort and easy access to stuff perspective.  I typically always have my sleeping bag on bottom as you don't need it during the day.

Has he pooped in the woods before?  One trick there is to lean your back against a tree.  Dig the hole first - find a sturdy stick to deal with it once done so you don't get crap on your trowel.  When he digs the hole, keep the dirt in a pile close by, don't fling the dirt away.  Take the TP off the roll for easier packing.  Don't bury the TP - haul it out with your gear, pack extra large ziplocks for that.

 
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AAABatteries said:
Have him pack and unpack his bag multiple times.  Figure out the best way to pack it.  Both from a comfort and easy access to stuff perspective.  I typically always have my sleeping bag on bottom as you don't need it during the day.

Has he pooped in the woods before?  One trick there is to lean your back against a tree.  Dig the hole first - find a study stick to deal with it once done so you don't get crap on your trowel.  When he digs the hole, keep the dirt in a pile close by, don't fling the dirt away.  Take the TP off the roll for easier packing.  Don't bury the TP - haul it out with your gear, pack extra large ziplocks for that.
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Re bag: heavier items should be closest to his back and the middle of the bag - he wants the weight on his hips, not on his shoulders. 

Re Poop: tell him to keep his pants above his knees as opposed to around his ankles. 

 
Jaysus said:
Re bag: heavier items should be closest to his back and the middle of the bag - he wants the weight on his hips, not on his shoulders. 

Re Poop: tell him to keep his pants above his knees as opposed to around his ankles. 
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Yep and make sure the bag is as balanced as possible - heavier in middle like Jaysus is saying and try your best to balance the rest.

 
Some great stuff so far, thanks guys.

First of all, he won't be carrying all of his equipment.  The camp leaders/counselors will be carrying stuff for the group that isn't needed to be carried individually.  I also think they'll take turns with some of it.

Bodyglide -- we already have that and already planned on having him use it.  We have the new shoes and he's breaking them in.  Starting today, he's walking 30 minutes each day while wearing the hiking boots and backpack on the treadmill at 15% grade.  I'll start adding weight over the next couple days as he gets used to wearing the pack. 

We still need to get some trekking poles.  We weren't sure one way or the other but it seems it might be good for him to have. 

 
gianmarco said:
We still need to get some trekking poles.  We weren't sure one way or the other but it seems it might be good for him to have. 
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I do not use these, but all the reviews indicate that they punch above their weight class:  https://www.amazon.com/Cascade-Mountain-Tech-Carbon-Trekking/dp/B00EJP43FA

Apparently you can get them cheaper at Costco

ETA: all he would need is the poles, the wrist straps and maybe the small baskets. 

Edit2: when set in the right size, his arms should be at a 90 degree angle on flat ground 

 
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CletiusMaximus said:
From personal experience - make sure the hiking boots are purchased and broken in well before the trip.  Do start hiking in new or nearly-new boots or the blisters could tank the whole trip for him.
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I'd put this at the top of the list. The trip leaders can minimize the negative results of almost every bad decision. But painful footwear will probably be harder to overcome. Especially if it's only discovered when he's already into the hike.

 
gianmarco said:
Some great stuff so far, thanks guys.

First of all, he won't be carrying all of his equipment.  The camp leaders/counselors will be carrying stuff for the group that isn't needed to be carried individually.  I also think they'll take turns with some of it.

Bodyglide -- we already have that and already planned on having him use it.  We have the new shoes and he's breaking them in.  Starting today, he's walking 30 minutes each day while wearing the hiking boots and backpack on the treadmill at 15% grade.  I'll start adding weight over the next couple days as he gets used to wearing the pack. 

We still need to get some trekking poles.  We weren't sure one way or the other but it seems it might be good for him to have. 
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Trekking poles can save you from a nasty fall or worse but lots of young(er) people - read in shape with good balance- don’t use them.  With that much weight on his back just one small misstep and he’ll potentially go down.  I’m old-ish so I’d use them without a pack, no chance with weight on my back I wouldn’t use them.  Also can become a weapon against an animal if needed.

 
something like this is fun for breaking up the monotony of drinking all water all the time... plus, the electrolytes are $Ted.Danson

 
Take care of his feet. Carry some leukotape wrapped around a pen or lighter. The moment he feels a hot spot on his feet he should stop and take care of it. Walking with blisters and a 30# pack is no fun.

I wear Injinji wool liners in addition to wool socks. Wearing toe socks takes a little getting used to, but they help prevent blisters.

 
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GFLjYRB-AEU/US4Zh7wMpPI/AAAAAAAAAPY/RNYxhGzwxlQ/s1600/How+to+Pack+a+Backpack+for+Weight+Distribution.jpg

There's a few variations on this that I've seen over the years but they all suggest the same basic thing, you tend to put heavy stuff at the bottom or most frequently used stuff near the top but you really want to avoid moving lots of weight unnecessarily.

Imagine carrying a medicine ball in front of you for a long walk.  Would you carry it close to your chest or hold it in your hands with your arms out far away from you?  

 
DaVinci said:
Wrap it in a garbage bag or a big nylon duffel.
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If you don’t have a big duffle that fits it,  put a couple contractor grade trash bags around it and duct tape the crap out of it.

other things people may have said already but got me through a similar long backpacking trip:

”camp shoes”- I carabinered a pair of crocs off the back of my pack. As soon as you are off the trail for the day - socks off and crocs on. If your feet break down you will be miserable.

“Something to sit on” - You don’t need a special camp chair, but a chunk of old camping mat or other foam just big enough to plop your butt on is worth 10 times it’s weight.

“Clothing” - Layers. Layers. Layers. Wicking materials. The only cotton you want should be just what you sleep in.  Have maybe two “hiking” outfits and 1 change that you sleep in every night. A decent stuffable rain jacket doubles as a windbreaker if you get chilly. Wool socks are no joke. Again, take care of your feet or the whole thing can become a miserable ordeal.

”Water” - We were in New Mexico high desert (Philmont Scout Ranch) and an internal hydration bladder was a must, plus whatever Nalgene or other water bottles (a plain old Powerade bottle will do just fine). You won’t drink enough if you have to reach for your bottle and just pulling a sip off the bladder without having to stop or think about it is huge. Then you have one bottle for just water (and nothing else) and the other to mix flavored stuff in. Depending on your bear precautions, the “smellable” goes up in the bearline at night (or in canister) and you can keep just the water around in camp.

”Practice” - know your gear and how it fits in your pack. Get as many miles as you can under your belt with a loaded pack, even though it’s a little late to really do a lot of conditioning.

Sounds like an awesome trip!

 
gianmarco said:
Anyone with thoughts here?
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Get a bag or something to put the pack in when flying. Fill the pack with gear. Put the filled pack in the bag. The pack will be ruined if the airport baggage handling machines catch a strap. Nothing should be hanging loose when the bag gets checked. 

I'd suggest knowing what the water filtration situation is going to be. Are they able to refill from potable water? Will they need to filter? Who is supplying the filter. Does he know how to use a filter? My suggestion is to make sure that some sort of back up filter is available anyway. I'd suggest a gravity filter. Pumping multiple liters is a drag. Note: don't check the filter on the plane... the filter membrane doesn't like to be frozen.

Get him walking NOW. Every day. Especially if you live anywhere near sea level. The elevation can hurt. No, walking for school doesn't count. Get climbs in. The trip will be much more enjoyable if he is fit. Being the slowest hiker who pops every day is a drag. Aim to be able to complete 2miles/hr with a full loaded pack over broken ground. 4miles/hr on good trails. This is harder to do than it sounds.

Get good boots and get them fitted. Break them in now, make sure they fit. Blisters will ruin a trip.

I saw the bear canister mention. If going into bear territory (and I'd guess Wyoming is), make sure you know how they are keep the kids safe. Nothing smell-able should be in the tent with him. This includes water bottles that have had anything but water in them. Batteries. Film. Soap. Shampoo. Anything. A bear is a giant walking nose that can smell things at great distance. Learn how to use bear bags or the bear boxes. do not eat in the tent. Do not cook near the tent. Do not clean up near the tent. 200ft minimum.

 
Jaysus said:
Oh, get some Permethrin and treat his clothes with it. 
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How do you treat your stuff? Spray? Soak? Do you treat sleeping bag and other stuff too?

Wife would like as much details on this as possible. And does it wash off?

 
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  • Thanks
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Oh, and I'll second the no cotton thing. NO COTTON! For anything. Ever. Get wicking materials. It will rain. Cotton is a heavy sponge that will never dry out and lose all insulation properties. No cotton.

 
gianmarco said:
Just as is?  No worries it will get damaged being checked in without being in a bag or suitcase?
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Some people wrap them with cellophane, but I just close all the buckles and tie off any loose straps. It may get a little dirty, but those bags are tough and camping will get it even dirtier.

Also be aware some airlines won't let you travel with camp stoves, and none let travel with fuel TMK - hopefully he doesn't have to worry about any of that.

Agree that getting pack fitted, packing the weight appropriately and broken in shoes are critical. Dry bags and lightweight rain gear are a must as well.

While it's great to build his endurance on the treadmill, I'd have him hike outdoors with a loaded pack to get used to carrying a lot of weight on uneven ground.

Headlamp with replacement batteries is also important. This  ain't cheap, but it sits nicely on your head so as not to cause headaches, and can be folded and converted to a hanging camp light.

I'd probably review the first aid supplies the sponsors will be bringing. SAM splints are pretty awesome for serious MSK injuries, and there are a variant of blister bandages that work pretty well (vs. Moleskin for hot spots). And don't forget sunscreen!

If he's hiking in the Wind River Range, he'll probably be at elevation and altitude illness may be an issue. Has he ever been above 6-8K feet before?

 
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