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Voting restrictions and the “For the People Act” (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
This appears to be the central issue these days (some are arguing it’s the central issue of our times!) so it deserves its own thread. 
Here are the facts; I will save my opinions for later: 

1. All over America Republican controlled state and local legislatures are passing new laws that restrict voting. The most stringent of these are taking place in Georgia, Arizona, and Texas. Republicans argue that these new restrictions are necessary to combat voter fraud. Democrats are that they are designed to restrict minorities from voting. 
2. In the House, Democrats narrowly passed the “For the People Act”, a voting rights law that would negate most of these local voting restrictions from a federal level. In the senate it’s opposed by every Republican, and supported by every Democrat except Joe Manchin, who has stated that he approves of the bill but is concerned that it has no bipartisan support. The bill would also not survive the Senate filibuster unless Manchin amd Krysten Sinema are willing to break it over this issue; so far they have shown no willingness to do so. Last night in his speech Biden publicly called them out, though not by name: “two senators.” 
 

Both sides are are behaving like this is the crucial issue of our times. 

 
Now for my own thoughts: first, this appears to be all about power. Obviously with the House separated by 4 votes and the Senate a tie, we’re as politically divided as we’ve ever been. A few restrictions here and there will tip the scales to the Republicans- temporarily. Long term, it seems like stupid politics to me. Demographics are changing, black and Hispanic populations are growing, and the future of the Republican Party is contingent upon courting their votes, not keeping them from voting. As Karl Rove and many other conservatives have pointed out since the GOP “autopsy” of early 2013, the Republican Party needs to change to attract these new voters. Instead it chose Donald Trump and now it appears to be doubling down with these voting restrictions.

On the other hand, the Democrats are doing a lot of panicking here and I’m not sure it’s warranted. When I read the actual new laws in question, I don’t agree with them, but aI also don’t find them so egregious as to demand such an emergency response. Most of them seem rather mild, though perhaps there are hidden consequences I’m not considering. Certain progressives are warning Biden that they won’t proceed on anything else, including infrastructure, until this issue is dealt with. That seems wrong to me. 

On the third hand, it appears that either the filibuster is going to have to be broken or that’s the end of Biden’s agenda- nothing else is going to be passed. So I guess it’s all up to Manchin and Sinema. 

 
Republicans aren't restricting voting, please show me a law that was passed that makes blacks, gays, or tran genders not allowed to vote. Republicans are passing laws to make elections fair and secure, something Dems don't want so they can cheat and make ballots appear 2-3 days later and say they were mailed in. There is no need to hand out food when you are waiting in line to vote, there is no need to have drop off boxes of more then 5 miles apart, dems want them all over the place, which makes fraud easier.

 
Republicans aren't restricting voting, please show me a law that was passed that makes blacks, gays, or tran genders not allowed to vote. Republicans are passing laws to make elections fair and secure, something Dems don't want so they can cheat and make ballots appear 2-3 days later and say they were mailed in. There is no need to hand out food when you are waiting in line to vote, there is no need to have drop off boxes of more then 5 miles apart, dems want them all over the place, which makes fraud easier.
Your arguments would be made stronger if there was actual evidence of fraud. And what caused you to bring up gay and transgenders? Neither have anything to do with this topic. 

 
Your arguments would be made stronger if there was actual evidence of fraud. And what caused you to bring up gay and transgenders? Neither have anything to do with this topic. 
It does, when you say they are restricting voting, it makes it sound like the Republicans are passing laws making it harder or outlawing a certain person to vote.. None of that is true. There is nothing in any of these bills and laws that are restricting people to vote.

Stop with this stuff cause it's making your party look bad.

 
It does, when you say they are restricting voting, it makes it sound like the Republicans are passing laws making it harder or outlawing a certain person to vote.. None of that is true. There is nothing in any of these bills and laws that are restricting people to vote.

Stop with this stuff cause it's making your party look bad.
I think you’re having a problem with the term restricting- it doesn’t mean preventing. It DOES mean making it harder, and these laws certainly do that. 
For example the Texas bill, among other things, removes ALL drop boxes, not just those 5 miles apart. It severely limits voting on Sundays, in a pretty transparent attempt to reduce black voting “souls to the polls”. 

 
Maybe some of the voting is just behind the times a little and we should accept it and move onto to more important discussions

 
When I started this thread I deliberately did not use the term “voter suppression” since I was trying to be as fact based as possible in the OP. But I think the word restriction is fair. Certainly these laws are not designed to increase voting. 

 
Tim is making statements about bills he hasn't even read.   :D
Did I get something wrong? You’re correct I haven’t read these bills, only descriptions of them in the mainstream media, which I trust (sucks that I have to even mention that). But if I got something specific wrong please correct me. 

 
Maybe some of the voting is just behind the times a little and we should accept it and move onto to more important discussions
Wouldn’t mail in voting, drive through voting, and expanded voting times be catching up to the times? How would new, effective measures at getting more of the populace to vote be behind the times? Maybe I’m just not understanding your usage of the phrase in this instance. 

 
Did I get something wrong? You’re correct I haven’t read these bills, only descriptions of them in the mainstream media, which I trust (sucks that I have to even mention that). But if I got something specific wrong please correct me. 
The only thing you have wrong is your conclusion, which I assume you also got from the MSM.  But you don't mention any specific issues you have with the bills, probably because the MSM generally doesn't either.  They just throw around platitudes and accusations about how the GOP is trying to destroy voting rights.

 
I struggle with this.   Because I have a very hard time with the excuse that people of color are too pathetic to be able to get the same things whites are able to get to vote.  

I tire of making excuses or changing things because of the poor sad pathetic people of color who just are not capable of taking care of themselves and being responsible and instead need white people to make sure they have everything they need.

Isn't part of being independent being, NON dependent on white people to grease the wheels? 

 
I think you’re having a problem with the term restricting- it doesn’t mean preventing. It DOES mean making it harder, and these laws certainly do that. 
For example the Texas bill, among other things, removes ALL drop boxes, not just those 5 miles apart. It severely limits voting on Sundays, in a pretty transparent attempt to reduce black voting “souls to the polls”. 
I have a hard time believing that people are only able to vote on Sunday?  Drop boxes are a bad idea.   Voting stations should be monitored.   Russia could begin a drop box stuffing program.  

 
I have a hard time believing that people are only able to vote on Sunday?  Drop boxes are a bad idea.   Voting stations should be monitored.   Russia could begin a drop box stuffing program.  
Drop boxes are a bad idea?  What are they going to stuff it with? 

 
Can we discuss getting rid of the highway system next.

I understand there is a national discussion on the matter.

 
I have a hard time believing that people are only able to vote on Sunday?  Drop boxes are a bad idea.   Voting stations should be monitored.   Russia could begin a drop box stuffing program.  
Why are drop boxes a bad idea? Has there been any evidence to support your claim? Please explain the process by which Russia initiates a ballot stuffing program.

Why should we restrict mail in voting when Utah and Florida had expanded mail in balloting? Utah's been doing primarily (80%) mail in for decades. Why shouldn't the rest of the country follow their lead instead of making it more difficult? Is anyone calling for Utah to change their mail in laws? 

 
Why are drop boxes a bad idea? Has there been any evidence to support your claim? Please explain the process by which Russia initiates a ballot stuffing program.

Why should we restrict mail in voting when Utah and Florida had expanded mail in balloting? Utah's been doing primarily (80%) mail in for decades. Why shouldn't the rest of the country follow their lead instead of making it more difficult? Is anyone calling for Utah to change their mail in laws? 
Ok listen.  Your handle says amused to death and you are so darn angry like ALL THE TIME...Why?

 
I struggle with this.   Because I have a very hard time with the excuse that people of color are too pathetic to be able to get the same things whites are able to get to vote.  

I tire of making excuses or changing things because of the poor sad pathetic people of color who just are not capable of taking care of themselves and being responsible and instead need white people to make sure they have everything they need.

Isn't part of being independent being, NON dependent on white people to grease the wheels? 
I mean this with no disrespect, and I'm sure this will be taken the wrong way but this is what white privilege looks like. 

Have you ever waited 2+ hours to vote?  Me neither.  My polling station is right down the road, easy access, well staffed.  In/out in 5 minutes.  It's not the same experience everywhere.

Do you have a valid drivers license and can therefore provide photo ID?  I do, as do the vast majority of people I know.  That's not necessarily true for all demographics.

Southern states have a long history, going back to the 1860's, of making up laws to disenfranchise minorities.  They have been toeing the line for a really long time between outright descrimination and "common sense reform".  Things like preventing felons from voting (knowing blacks have a higher rate of incarceration), poll tax, literacy tax, etc.

If you were to go way back to the mid 2000's, and if the thread wasn't purged, you would find me arguing for voter ID requirements.  I mean, why can't everyone just get a voter ID?  I have since changed my mind on that one - basically, it's not my place to ask why.  If you truly value libertarian views, you shouldn't require anyone to show papers to vote.

 
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WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — Access to the ballot box in November will be more difficult for some people in Dodge City, where Hispanics now make up 60 percent of its population and have remade an iconic Wild West town that once was the destination of cowboys and buffalo hunters who frequented the Long Branch Saloon.

At a time when many rural towns are slowly dying, the arrival of two massive meatpacking plants boosted Dodge City’s economy and transformed its demographics as immigrants from Mexico and other countries flooded in to fill those jobs.

But the city located 160 miles (257 kilometers) west of Wichita has only one polling site for its 27,000 residents. Since 2002, the lone site was at the civic center just blocks from the local country club — in the wealthy, white part of town. For this November’s election, local officials have moved it outside the city limits to a facility more than a mile from the nearest bus stop, citing road construction that blocked the previous site.

 
I mean this with no disrespect, and I'm sure this will be taken the wrong way but this is what white privilege looks like. 

Have you ever waited 2+ hours to vote?  Me neither.  My polling station is right down the road, easy access, well staffed.  In/out in 5 minutes.  It's not the same experience everywhere.

Do you have a valid drivers license and can therefore provide photo ID?  I do, as do the vast majority of people I know.  That's not necessarily true for all demographics.

Southern states have a long history, going back to the 1860's, of making up laws to disenfranchise minorities.  They have been toeing the line for a really long time between outright descrimination and "common sense reform".  Things like preventing felons from voting (knowing blacks have a higher rate of incarceration), poll tax, literacy tax, etc.

If you were to go way back to the mid 2000's, and if the thread wasn't purged, you would find me arguing for voter ID requirements.  I mean, why can't everyone just get a voter ID?  I have since changed my mind on that one - basically, it's not my place to ask why.  If you truly value libertarian views, you shouldn't require anyone to show papers to vote.
This!  So much this

I have no problem with voter id's when they are intended to actually secure an election.  Bring them in but then fan workers out across each City and make dang sure every person gets one for free

 
WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — Access to the ballot box in November will be more difficult for some people in Dodge City, where Hispanics now make up 60 percent of its population and have remade an iconic Wild West town that once was the destination of cowboys and buffalo hunters who frequented the Long Branch Saloon.

At a time when many rural towns are slowly dying, the arrival of two massive meatpacking plants boosted Dodge City’s economy and transformed its demographics as immigrants from Mexico and other countries flooded in to fill those jobs.

But the city located 160 miles (257 kilometers) west of Wichita has only one polling site for its 27,000 residents. Since 2002, the lone site was at the civic center just blocks from the local country club — in the wealthy, white part of town. For this November’s election, local officials have moved it outside the city limits to a facility more than a mile from the nearest bus stop, citing road construction that blocked the previous site.
If the Dems wanted to play dirty like the R's in places like Virginia they would put voting booths only downtown in African American churches only in the evenings from 7-9pm.  No parking within miles.    ELECTION SECURITY!!!!!

 
Republicans aren't restricting voting, please show me a law that was passed that makes blacks, gays, or tran genders not allowed to vote. Republicans are passing laws to make elections fair and secure, something Dems don't want so they can cheat and make ballots appear 2-3 days later and say they were mailed in. There is no need to hand out food when you are waiting in line to vote, there is no need to have drop off boxes of more then 5 miles apart, dems want them all over the place, which makes fraud easier.
Moving back voting to one o'clock on Sunday for instance is specifically designed to counteract traditional black and latino "souls to the polls" efforts.  

 
Moving back voting to one o'clock on Sunday for instance is specifically designed to counteract traditional black and latino "souls to the polls" efforts.  
For those saying these are all common sense measures, I would like them to explain this one.  I think Texas really got carried away here.

 
Moving back voting to one o'clock on Sunday for instance is specifically designed to counteract traditional black and latino "souls to the polls" efforts.  
Now they're saying it was a mistake and they meant it to be 11:00 am despite the bill's sponsor standing by the 1:00 pm start saying "It says 1 p.m. and no later than 9 p.m. You can make Sunday service and go after that."

So tell me how this proposed change was designed to reduce fraud.

 
I mean this with no disrespect, and I'm sure this will be taken the wrong way but this is what white privilege looks like. 

Have you ever waited 2+ hours to vote?  Me neither.  My polling station is right down the road, easy access, well staffed.  In/out in 5 minutes.  It's not the same experience everywhere.

Do you have a valid drivers license and can therefore provide photo ID?  I do, as do the vast majority of people I know.  That's not necessarily true for all demographics.

Southern states have a long history, going back to the 1860's, of making up laws to disenfranchise minorities.  They have been toeing the line for a really long time between outright descrimination and "common sense reform".  Things like preventing felons from voting (knowing blacks have a higher rate of incarceration), poll tax, literacy tax, etc.

If you were to go way back to the mid 2000's, and if the thread wasn't purged, you would find me arguing for voter ID requirements.  I mean, why can't everyone just get a voter ID?  I have since changed my mind on that one - basically, it's not my place to ask why.  If you truly value libertarian views, you shouldn't require anyone to show papers to vote.
I'm tired of this argument.  You just reinforced that with which I am sick of.  You can call it white privlilege, whatever that means.  Go get a damn ID.  Period.  Stop with the excuses.  Stop with the "you are not white therefore you should get special treatment"

 
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https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gop-warns-hr-absolutely-devastating-republicans/story?id=76555647

look we can google and discuss all we want but this is about one thing and one thing only

Democrats have power and they're using it to assure themselves getting as many votes as possible in the future any and every way they can.

Republicans are fighting them on it

bottom line
H.R. 1, known as the For the People Act, seeks to abolish hurdles to voting, reform the role of money in politics and tighten federal ethics rules. Among the key tenets of the bill to overhaul the nation's election system: allowing for no-excuse mail voting, at least 15 days of early voting, automatic voter registration and restoring voting rights to felons who have completed their prison sentences.

But it faces steep opposition from the GOP over its potential implications for future elections, including the 2022 midterms, with some Republicans openly fretting that broader access to voting will harm the party's chances.

 
Dems wants HR1 cause it will help them cheat, it adds more boxes, more mail in voting, makes election a monthly thing.. It is ridiculous.. Thank God SCOTUS will strike it down.

 
Dems wants HR1 cause it will help them cheat, it adds more boxes, more mail in voting, makes election a monthly thing.. It is ridiculous.. Thank God SCOTUS will strike it down.
Why is the bolded a bad thing? Red state Utah's been doing it for decades. Maybe a better solution is to follow what Utah does. Also, prior to 2020, Florida was greatly expanding their mail in ballot program. Now some in the FL GOP are worried the recent restrictions on mail in ballots will backfire and hurt the Republicans.

Or are mail in ballots only bad in states Trump lost?

 
Why is the bolded a bad thing? Red state Utah's been doing it for decades. Maybe a better solution is to follow what Utah does. Also, prior to 2020, Florida was greatly expanding their mail in ballot program. Now some in the FL GOP are worried the recent restrictions on mail in ballots will backfire and hurt the Republicans.

Or are mail in ballots only bad in states Trump lost?
Mail in Voting is bad all over.. Voting should be done at the polls on Election Day.

 
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gop-warns-hr-absolutely-devastating-republicans/story?id=76555647

look we can google and discuss all we want but this is about one thing and one thing only

Democrats have power and they're using it to assure themselves getting as many votes as possible in the future any and every way they can.

Republicans are fighting them on it

bottom line
it would be nice if Republicans would work to get votes for themselves instead of trying to keep people from voting for democrat.  

It seems obvious that the republican strategy is to discourage likely democrat voters from voting.  Doesn't that seem unAmerican to you? 

 
Republicans: we love the working man!  

Also Republicans: The only time you can vote is this specific place, miles from where you live, between 8:00AM and 7:00PM and no you cannot have time off.  If there happens to be a long line, you are not allowed to be served food or water.

 
Wait, I got this one - from SC's link:

Republicans openly fretting that broader access to voting will harm the party's chances.
We all know that's the reason.  Time and time again they have let these things slip from their mouths.  They can't win on their own.  That's why Trumps approval was always low 40s and high 30s depending on when you looked

It's amazing to me that anyone can see fraud when a guy with that kind of losing track record actually loses.  

 

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