Amused to Death
Footballguy
And if you need to rely on public transportation, you may need to walk a couple of miles to get the only polling place in your district.
But hey! It applies to white people too!
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Voting restrictions and the “For the People Act” (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
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But hey! It applies to white people too!
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
A few decades ago, the parties took a look at the demographic trends in our country and both realized their traditional voting bases were changing and that what got them to that point would not carry them into the future. The Democratic party decided to buy votes through social programs, entitlements and marketing in minority communities. The Republican party decided to secure their power through voting legislation and the Courts. Both parties use gerrymandering where possible. Neither makes any real effort to disguise their agenda. Neither party has the spine to do the hard thing - develop a platform that actually appeals to a broad array of people, young and old, across social lines and actually win a majority of votes by appealing to a majority of voters. I don't think that's possible given the funding sources.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
“There’s a fundamental difference between Democrats and Republicans,” he told CNN. “Democrats value as many people as possible voting, and they’re willing to risk fraud. Republicans are more concerned about fraud, so we don’t mind putting security measures in that won’t let everybody vote — but everybody shouldn’t be voting
*Trump's commission on voter fraud found no voter fraud
supermike80
Footballguy
Exactly!!! Everyone is equal. Whats the problem here? If a white guy is given a sandwich in line while a black guy isn't, I will not be happy.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/30/trump-voting-republicans/
“The things they had in there were crazy,” Trump said. “They had things — levels of voting that, if you ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.”
Amused to Death
Footballguy
To the bolded:
Partisan gerrymandering would be expressly banned
H.R. 1 would give voters an important advantage by creating the first ban against partisan gerrymandering in federal statutory law.
This statutory ban would let voters use H.R. 1 to challenge gerrymandered maps under H.R. 1 instead of having to rely, as is the case presently, on claims brought under various parts of the Constitution. Having a statutory remedy could be an especially important tool for voters given uncertainty about how far the Supreme Court will go in allowing partisan gerrymandering claims brought under the Constitution.
Importantly, the ban could be implemented for maps drawn in 2021, even the passage of H.R. 1 does not come in time for independent commissions to be set up.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
The bolded is a pretty odd spin on what is actually being said...and often done to try and paint those fighting for voting rights as believing such nonsense.
The problem is...that people have changed things to try and ensure that poor people and people of color have a harder time obtaining such things that are easier for those who are more well off or white.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
show me what that means please
I know of no instances in the past decades of people being kept from voting - and I doubt you do either
Amused to Death
Footballguy
"Republicans are more concerned about fraud, so we don’t mind putting security measures in that won’t let everybody vote — but everybody shouldn’t be voting" - AZ Republican John Kavanagh
moleculo
Footballguy
Prior to 2018, felons in Florida and 3 other states did not have the right to vote. There's one concrete example of people being kept from voting.
But to be more on point, I said "try" - as in, enact laws making voting more difficult. If you aren't aware of what that means, I suspect you didn't read the first post of this thread.
ETA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Florida_Amendment_4
hell of an effective way to knock out 21.5 % of a demographic likely to vote democrat, no?
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
example of CHOICES - they can't own guns either, are they being "kept" from it? or is it a consequence of actions ?
its a concrete example of a restriction / rule
why can't I vote in Idaho ? why can't 15 year olds vote? why can't non-citizens vote ?
moleculo
Footballguy
dude, you asked for an example of people being kept from voting. I gave you one. Move on.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
The issue at hand here is in the constitution, the 24th amendment prohibits poll taxes, and paying for a state issued ID in order to vote could be argued as being the same thing. Some states offer free state IDs but in order to prove your identity you may need to pay for other supporting documents.
supermike80
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
In order to register to vote you typically need to provide a SSN# or ID# in addition to proof of residency. How do Republicans think millions of fraudulent ballots are being cast? When I go vote at my polling place, they verify my information and see that I'm on the list of registered voters. Are Republicans claiming that people are making dozens of return trips and providing identifying information about others in order to cast additional ballots? I would think this would be commonly discovered when the actual people come in to cast their ballots. I don't think I've ever heard of this hpapening.
I voted by mail this election for the first time, and my ballot had my own personal bar code on it, and required my signature. Are Republicans claiming that people are going around and stealing other peoples' ballots from their mailboxes? How are people getting these fraudulent ballots? It's not like we vote on a sticky note.
I heard this election that a bunch of ballots came into AZ from CA. Wouldn't this be pretty easy to figure out when these ballots have CA propositions and CA representatives down ballot? The whole thing is ridiculous.
I voted by mail this election for the first time, and my ballot had my own personal bar code on it, and required my signature. Are Republicans claiming that people are going around and stealing other peoples' ballots from their mailboxes? How are people getting these fraudulent ballots? It's not like we vote on a sticky note.
I heard this election that a bunch of ballots came into AZ from CA. Wouldn't this be pretty easy to figure out when these ballots have CA propositions and CA representatives down ballot? The whole thing is ridiculous.
Mile High
Footballguy
All I know to commit fraud like this would involve lots of people. We all know the best crimes are committed when there are multiple conspirators involved. Surprised no conspirator hasn't cut a deal to save themselves from the jail time.
Dickies
Footballguy
Yea, Trump and his most devout supporters claim he won the popular vote if we exclude the fraudulent votes. How are there 8M+ fraudulent votes? I'd like to know how fraudulent votes can even be cast in any way other than on an extremely small scale. I've asked these questions in here before and have been ignored. Trump already set up a voter fraud commission.... which failed to find voter fraud.
Republicans are bending over backwards to find a problem when none exists.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Sounds racist to assume republicans wouldn't go there. Is there a reason to fear AA Churches between 7 and 9 pm?
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
When they do republicans just pass a similar law, or at least that’s my understanding of this article from Texas.
I happen to agree with him.
First, let me differentiate between what I'll call voter inconvenience vs. voter growth. "Inconvenience" includes things like insufficient numbers of polling places which cause long lines, and those things should be resolved. "Growth" encompasses encouraging unregistered people to register, and registered people to vote. This is what I disagree with.
I'm guessing that the persona describing most of the people in the growth category is not consistent with a high-information citizen with a sense of civic duty. If I have to encourage you to vote, let alone register to vote, do us all a favor and sit this one out.
More likely the above persona is one who would vote for free stuff. Somebody above described Democrats as "buying votes with social programs." That is a nice way of saying they are the party of free stuff. I don't think the founding fathers had in mind the encouragement of such people to vote for whoever gives them more free things. Unless you think such people are swayed by the compelling Democratic positions on things like global warming, LGBTQ rights, or international detente.
So yes, I proudly admit that I don't want such growth or encouragement, because I don't think such people should be setting the direction of our government.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
So when I tell my 22 year old son that he should exercise his civic duty and go vote, he would be one of the people that you are referring to that should sit this one out? Because I'm encouraging him to vote?
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
...and the Democrats' argument would be made stronger if there was actual evidence that minorities (specifically blacks) have trouble getting an ID in order to vote.
...and I mean ACTUAL evidence...not some hokey MSM report....
Something like, people of color protesting that they, themselves cannot get an ID
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knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Many of their arguments reveal the deep seated racists beliefs of many on the left.
Last fall in St Paul I encouraged my daughter to vote early rather than wait in a long line on the day of the election. She opted to to vote with the mail in ballot but said in order to do that she had to have it notarized. She had never had anything notarized before and was asking how to go about doing that. Pretty difficult to run around voting with a fake name or multiple times if you have to go through that process. In hind sight it would have been simpler to vote early with an absentee ballot.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I used to think this way. In a lot of ways, I still do. Most people aren't nearly informed enough to vote intelligently. However, I think the millions of Q adherents have proven that "motivation to vote" is definitely not positively correlated to "informed voter", and may well be negatively correlated, so this is no longer a factor for me.
sho nuff
Footballguy
No they don't....only when its spun beyond what is actually being said. LIke when people try claiming that if the left argues that statistically poor people and african americans don't have IDs..that the left is claiming they are too stupid to get one or are incapable without the white man...its a bogus spin on the actual argument.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
nobody is "keeping" them ... they are choosing to break the laws and thus, the requirements
do you feel like you're being kept from voting in other states? Why, yes, you actually ARE because its not legal to do it
that's not discrimination - its a requirement not met
do you see the difference ?
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
every born citizen in the USA is given that, correct ?
OK did you provide your SS# when you cast that ballot ?
Some fear that millions of illegals will get ballots and be able to cast them. People not legally allowed to vote (you've moved to another state or you have a felony arrest etc) could be voting. People who died could get those mail in ballots too. Of course, we live in a day too where you can take any good printer and make really good looking counterfeit currency ... it would be easy enough to make counterfeit ballots too.
How much happened? Nobody knows. What we DO know is Democrats got way way more mail in votes which wasn't supposed to happen.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/20/mail-in-voting-us-election-the-facts
Will mail-in voting hurt Trump’s chances of being re-elected?
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There’s no evidence that mail-in voting benefits either Democrats or Republicans. One study by Stanford researchers found that vote by mail does not benefit one party over the other.
and what happened ?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-absentee-voting-looked-like-in-all-50-states/
Biden won the Presidential election because of mail in voting. That wasn't supposed to happen, and either Democrats are very very lazy and won't go to the poll's to vote (Republicans are just as lazy fyi) .... or something else happened.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Whether justified or not, Democrats have been much more scared of Covid than Republicans. They have worn masks at higher rates, they have been getting vaccinated at higher rates. It would not surprise me if Democrats were more likely to avoid in-person voting for the same reason.Stealthycat said:
moleculo
Footballguy
you didn't ask if they "chose" to break a law, you asked for examples of people being kept from voting. I gave you one, and now you are trying to say that doesn't count because of reasons. I'm not going to play this game with you - any other example I give, you will find another reason to move the goal post.Stealthycat said:
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Utah votes 80% by mail and have been doing so for decades. Are you calling them lazy? Also, Florida spent years building up their mail in voting - is it because Florida voters are lazy?Stealthycat said:
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I assume this ?Amused to Death said:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/542796-arizona-house-republican-says-party-thinks-everybody-shouldnt-be-voting
He isn't wrong. Dead people, people who've moved, illegally here people, felons, people under age .... "everybody" doesn't get to vote, he's right
isn't he ?
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
So that’s all you have or is that random “m” in your post the start of some enlightened response that got away?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
can you link anything that they've worn masks at higher rates or been vaccinated at higher rates?
my point was, it was predicted mail in balloting wouldn't one sided - and it was, greatly
If in 2024 Trump runs again and he get 105,000,000 votes .... and 35 million more mail in's ... will you question those numbers ?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
He makes no qualifiers. His full quote:
"There's a fundamental difference between Democrats and Republicans," he said. "Democrats value as many people as possible voting, and they're willing to risk fraud. Republicans are more concerned about fraud, so we don't mind putting security measures in that won't let everybody vote — but everybody shouldn't be voting."
Stealthycat
Footballguy
the numbers speak for themselves - Biden gained huge mail in numbers and Trump didn't
it was projected NOT to be like that
so why was it ? fraud ? Democrats were more scared than Republican's to vote at the polls ? ballot harvesting ?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
He continues:
"Not everybody wants to vote, and if somebody is uninterested in voting, that probably means that they're totally uninformed on the issues," he said. "Quantity is important, but we have to look at the quality of votes, as well."
“you can greatly influence the outcome of the election if one side pays people to actively and aggressively go out and retrieve those ballots."
Stealthycat
Footballguy
he absolutely did
Arizona House Rep. John Kavanagh (R) told CNN that Republican lawmakers are concerned ballots sent without being requested to people who have died or moved could contribute to voter fraud, while accusing Democrats of being “willing to risk fraud” to get more votes.
fraud would include all illegally harvested ballots
sho nuff
Footballguy
You brought to the table a conservative activists’s youtube video in declaring something is debunked. I don’t need much to counter that when it comes to what has been said here on this board and the arguments actually made about voter ID
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Biden gained huge mail in numbers because the Dems pushed hard for mail in voting while Trump greatly discouraged it. Only logical the Dems would have a decided edge in the mail in numbers. You're looking for something that isn't there.
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