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Voting restrictions and the “For the People Act”


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Posted (edited)

I am not ready to get behind the stolen election theory.  Multiple reasons.  Election shenanigans have existed since there were elections.  So to think this is new is kind of silly.  I in no way think there were enough suspect actions by either party to flip the election.  

Also, quite frankly,, I don't want to believe it's true.  I want to believe, even if not perfect, the voting system here is sound.  That's an admission of a head in the sand attitude on this topic.

Edited by supermike80
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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

Do you have any evidence at all of the above, or is it just a "feeling"?

Let me long answer

I have always thought UFO's were real. US Govt said no for decades. I think the US Govt covers up anything and everything to preserve its own (and we saw evidence of that with the release of the JFK files right?)  Do you believe the USA invaded and conquered Iraq in retaliation for 9-11 (which was conducted by almost all Saudi nationals) ?  Do you really believe Bill Clinton didn't inhale and did you believe him when he stood in front of the nation and world and said ' I didn't have sexual relations with that woman? What have we learned with the way the Fed Govt runs wars like Korea and Vietnam?  The coverups and operations and exploitations at political and Government levels are incredible - I think everyone knows it 

Its never made sense to me that spraying chemicals on things or people was safe - the Govt finally declared Roundup what it is. Who said for decades it was safe to put talc on people - do you know how talc forms? naturally is is side by side with asbestos which we were told was safe too.

I suppose you could say I've had a "feeling" about a lot of things just not making sense.

Biden getting 16 million more votes, the illegal dispensing of mail in ballots to everyone, the chaos in multiple states with WI, GA and AZ. What was said before the election with Democrats. I know how unpopular Biden was - nobody will ever show me he was 16 million more popular than Hillary, nobody can believe that. The many issues on the Dominion machines. The record mail in ballots that went what, 75% in Biden's favor? 

Democrats would do ANYTHING to get Trump out - they tried impeachments, media warfare, tried to bring women forward, the Russia fake news, the Syria fakeness .... all that ....  and they were not shy about that for 4 years. Could they have influenced the 2020 election and assure that Biden won? I absolutely believe that's what a powerful political party would do

I believe they did it. How can I, in rural Arkansas have "proof" ? Democrats "believed" about Russia and Syria with no proof against Trump. They believe right now the "insurrection" nonsense and many other things. Right? With no more than what the media gives them to 'believe'

 

I guess the same "proof" that tells me things like the 2020 election was rigged is like this

https://i.redd.it/d88y9i6db6t51.jpg

 

 

Edited by Stealthycat
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25 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I am not ready to get behind the stolen election theory.  Multiple reasons.  Election shenanigans have existed since there were elections.  So to think this is new is kind of silly.  I in no way think there were enough suspect actions by either party to flip the election.  

Also, quite frankly,, I don't want to believe it's true.  I want to believe, even if not perfect, the voting system here is sound.  That's an admission of a head in the sand attitude on this topic.

let me ask this - do you think a political party that absolutely HATES the president will stop at nothing to get get rid of that President ?

 

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2 hours ago, Rich Conway said:

Just FYI, I suspect that Opie highlighted that portion of your post where you quoted Godsbrother, then clicked the pop-up Quote Selection button.  I just tried that, and sure enough, it quoted the text and stuck your name on it rather than Godsbrother.

Yep it was directed at me.

I did not serve in the military.   I was 15 in 1974 when the Vietnam war ended and so was not old enough to be drafted.  When I was 18 we weren't at war so didn't feel the need to enlist. 

My Dad served and was wounded in WWII and my grandfather served in WWI.   I have ancestors that came to the US in the 1820's so it is possible that some fought in the civil war but I do not know that for certain.

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

I think many illegal votes were cast through mail in balloting. I don't think anyone audits or monitors those to amount to anything and that allows for casting of ballots illegally. I don't trust the Dominion machines. I think Hillary and Biden both said the truth's .... Hillary warning Biden to not give up in any case (because she thought he'd lose) and then of course Biden saying

 

I believe that Hillary said that because she thought/expected that more democrat voters would use mail in ballots than republican voters ( I assume there is some research to support this) AND that many (most) states don’t allow mail in votes to be counted until election day.

My guess is that it takes a little longer to verify and count the mail in ballots

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Yep it was directed at me.

I did not serve in the military.   I was 15 in 1974 when the Vietnam war ended and so was not old enough to be drafted.  When I was 18 we weren't at war so didn't feel the need to enlist. 

My Dad served and was wounded in WWII and my grandfather served in WWI.   I have ancestors that came to the US in the 1820's so it is possible that some fought in the civil war but I do not know that for certain.

My grandfather was wounded and captured in France and spent 4 months in a German POW camp. I have his war medals including his Purple Heart. I thought it was despicable when 5-deferrment Trump said our POWs weren't heroes.

It was disgusting (to me) when a veteran offered him his Purple Heart and Trump replied he "always wanted to get the Purple Heart — this was much easier" and then had the unmitigated audacity to pin it on his jacket as if he had any right to wear it. He always wanted one but was too afraid to risk what it took to earn it. 

Edited by Amused to Death
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it seems that some people respect America and our institutions: rule of law, due process and the Constitution.  Others call that "clutching pearls".

Count me on the side that loves America and would die to defend the Constitution.  If that's clutching pearls, so be it.  If I'm signaling virtues here, the virtue I hope I'm signaling is a love for what my country stands for.

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5 minutes ago, moleculo said:

it seems that some people respect America and our institutions: rule of law, due process and the Constitution.  Others call that "clutching pearls".

Count me on the side that loves America and would die to defend the Constitution.  If that's clutching pearls, so be it.  If I'm signaling virtues here, the virtue I hope I'm signaling is a love for what my country stands for.

Nah...That's not clutching pearls.  I agree in the importance of the constitution.

The whining about how they can't believe there are people in this country yadda yadda yadda  and how afraid they are fro our future ...Is clutching pearls.

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11 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

No.  I don't.

really ?

what do you think happens behind the scenes in politics ? we know about the Watergate fiasco. Bill and Monica head hunting. We know the Fed Govt lied to get us invading Iraq. We know that Korea and Vietnam were politized often to get elections swayed. We know about JFK obviously. We know about the fakeness now of Russia and Trump.

all that at its roots is to oust the president and get someone in there that more aligns with your party's views

hey, right now, don't think that GOP isn't figuring out how to unseat Biden in 2024 - the problem is media is almost all liberal and that power is incredible to sway public opinions

 

interesting though that you didn't see the last 4 years at all with the hatred towards Trump .....

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Nah...That's not clutching pearls.  I agree in the importance of the constitution.

The whining about how they can't believe there are people in this country yadda yadda yadda  and how afraid they are fro our future ...Is clutching pearls.

if you advocate removing Biden with the military, you do not agree on the importance of the constitution.   Full stop. There is no ambiguity.  There is no provision whereby the US military has the authority to remove it's own commander-in-chief.

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Nah...That's not clutching pearls.  I agree in the importance of the constitution.

The whining about how they can't believe there are people in this country yadda yadda yadda  and how afraid they are fro our future ...Is clutching pearls.

I'll drink to that.

But there are people who genuinely believe Trump will be re-installed or whatever nonsense, that the election was rigged/stolen, etc. I think a lot of the "pearl-clutching" is in response to that noise.

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Just now, moleculo said:

if you advocate removing Biden with the military, you do not agree on the importance of the constitution.   Full stop. There is no ambiguity.  There is no provision whereby the US military has the authority to remove it's own commander-in-chief.

Oh I agree with that completely.   Still not gonna clutch pearls over it however.    

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Just now, Grace Under Pressure said:

I'll drink to that.

But there are people who genuinely believe Trump will be re-installed or whatever nonsense, that the election was rigged/stolen, etc. I think a lot of the "pearl-clutching" is in response to that noise.

There are people who believe aliens live among us too.  And no one is clutching pearls.

There are folks living here that believe in communism.   And we are OK

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, supermike80 said:
13 minutes ago, moleculo said:

if you advocate removing Biden with the military, you do not agree on the importance of the constitution.   Full stop. There is no ambiguity.  There is no provision whereby the US military has the authority to remove it's own commander-in-chief.

Oh I agree with that completely.   Still not gonna clutch pearls over it however.

When there's ten random people advocating it on Instagram/Twitter/insert social media platform of choice, I won't clutch pearls.  When it's large contingents of people, including prominent voices (and let's face it, like it or not, former POTUS Trump, Powell, Flynn, et.al. are prominent voices), AND other prominent conservative voices like McConnell, McCarthy, et.al. aren't willing to stand up and say "Stop it, that's silly", then it's time to take it seriously and admonish those who are saying it and believing it.

Edited by Rich Conway
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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

I suppose you could say I've had a "feeling" about a lot of things just not making sense.

Biden getting 16 million more votes, the illegal dispensing of mail in ballots to everyone, the chaos in multiple states with WI, GA and AZ. What was said before the election with Democrats. I know how unpopular Biden was - nobody will ever show me he was 16 million more popular than Hillary, nobody can believe that. The many issues on the Dominion machines. The record mail in ballots that went what, 75% in Biden's favor? 

Could they have influenced the 2020 election and assure that Biden won? I absolutely believe that's what a powerful political party would do

I believe they did it. How can I, in rural Arkansas have "proof" ?

I guess the same "proof" that tells me things like the 2020 election was rigged is like this

I know I said it will be the last time, but I’ll rephrase it and also extend it to @PennStater77  I’m not asking for any proof or evidence, I simply want to know how you think it’s possible for there to be millions of fraudulent votes.

I have laid out exactly why I think it’s preposterous, so let’s hear how it’s possible. 

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

When there's ten random people advocating it on Instagram/Twitter/insert social media platform of choice, I won't clutch pearls.  When it's large contingents of people, including prominent voices (and let's face it, like it or not, former POTUS Trump, Powell, Flynn, et.al. are prominent voices), AND other prominent conservative voices like McConnell, McCarthy, et.al. aren't willing to stand up and say "Stop it, that's silly", then it's time to take it seriously and admonish those who are saying it and believing it.

The thing is, you really don't know how many are.   It is possible, very possible, that the beloved MSM is making more out of this than there is to fuel the partisan fire and continue to push the lefts agenda. 

Edited by supermike80
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6 minutes ago, Dickies said:

I know I said it will be the last time, but I’ll rephrase it and also extend it to @PennStater77  I’m not asking for any proof or evidence, I simply want to know how you think it’s possible for there to be millions of fraudulent votes.

I have laid out exactly why I think it’s preposterous, so let’s hear how it’s possible. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud

 

Its obvious voter/election fraud is popular world wide. 

googling will show you a history of fraud in the USA too - and if we know of 2 examples or 20 ... how much gets done and not caught ?

How is it possible? well again we know ballot harvesting happened by way of sending everyone in a state ballots even though not legal. Who filled out all those ballots? I don't know, and you don't. Who counted them? I don't know, and you don't. Who ran the machines? I don't know, and you don't.

we know what we're told - and many people just shake their head and say yes

 

I don't do that. When things don't seem right, they just don't. If the GOP candidate gets 100 million votes in 2024 will you question how in the world did that happen or just accept it?

 

 

 

did you know ( I didn't until I read that link ) which is an example of all that happens you and I are not aware of and so, don't think about ....

In 2014–2017, an intruder had control of the state computer in Georgia which programmed vote-counting machines[citation needed] for all counties. The same computer also held voter registration records. The intrusion exposed all election files in Georgia since then to compromise and malware. The FBI studied that computer in 2017, and public disclosure came in 2020 from a court case.[87][88][89] Georgia did not have paper ballots to measure the amount of error in electronic tallies.

In October 2016, Russians accessed the internal computers of VR Systems, which provides election services, including compilation of election results and their release on the web, in 8 states.[90] The intruders damaged 10 computers.[91][92] The NSA prepared a classified report in May 2017, and it was leaked in June 2017. Whether the damage affected vote tallies has not been revealed.[90]

 

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a guy I know just went 7900 miles through 15 states in the last month ... I asked him what he saw and he said

Quote

I saw only a few Biden anything. Signs, bumper stickers, etc. Even through San Francisco. The most I saw was in New Mexico. We also took a month long trip last year in October. Peak political season. Saw very little then too. Both trips west of Arkansas. You can’t count all the Trump signage. I sure thought of Biden every 200 miles though. That’s how far my gas tank would last until I needed to fill up. Gas in California is as high as it’s people.

 

how could such a popular candidate as Biden not have any signs of support at all across 15 states and almost 8000 miles ?

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

a guy I know just went 7900 miles through 15 states in the last month ... I asked him what he saw and he said

 

how could such a popular candidate as Biden not have any signs of support at all across 15 states and almost 8000 miles ?

 

He thought about Biden causing high gas prices in October?

Also I don't think biden was as popular as Trump was hated. Lots of people voted against Trump rather than for Biden, so they probably didn't put up Biden signs.

Edited by tymarsas
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19 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

Its obvious voter/election fraud is popular world wide. 

googling will show you a history of fraud in the USA too - and if we know of 2 examples or 20 ... how much gets done and not caught ?

How is it possible? well again we know ballot harvesting happened by way of sending everyone in a state ballots even though not legal. Who filled out all those ballots? I don't know, and you don't. Who counted them? I don't know, and you don't. Who ran the machines? I don't know, and you don't.

 

 

Ballots were not sent to everyone.  They are sent only to legally registered voters.  How is this "ballot harvesting"?

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9 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

a guy I know just went 7900 miles through 15 states in the last month ... I asked him what he saw and he said

 

how could such a popular candidate as Biden not have any signs of support at all across 15 states and almost 8000 miles ?

 

pRoOF!!1!

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6 minutes ago, tymarsas said:

He thought about Biden causing high gas prices in October?

Also I don't think biden was as popular as Trump was hated. Lots of people voted against Trump rather than for Biden, so they probably didn't put up Biden signs.

Also caused his gas tank to need refilling after 200 miles.  That was Biden's fault too.

I love the "I know a guy" talk and signs.  Always a good bit of "evidence" for voter fraud.  Forget the study after study after study and audit after audit after audit that shows it as statistically insignificant.  Ignore that Trump's own commission dissolved because despite trying really hard, they found nothing.

Signs are the real evidence.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Also caused his gas tank to need refilling after 200 miles.  That was Biden's fault too.

I love the "I know a guy" talk and signs.  Always a good bit of "evidence" for voter fraud.  Forget the study after study after study and audit after audit after audit that shows it as statistically insignificant.  Ignore that Trump's own commission dissolved because despite trying really hard, they found nothing.

Signs are the real evidence.

I wonder how many urban and heavily populated areas the "friend" drove through - you know, the largely Democratic areas. Where the vast majority of people live.

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28 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

a guy I know just went 7900 miles through 15 states in the last month ... I asked him what he saw and he said

 

how could such a popular candidate as Biden not have any signs of support at all across 15 states and almost 8000 miles ?

 

This argument is so silly.  There's a cult-like devotion to Trumpism.  Drive across the country in May of 2001 and you aren't seeing Bush/Cheney signs...or in May of 2005...or *name winning candidate here* in the months after the election.  Your friend's argument is such more a slam on Trump supporters than anything related to Biden.  They just can't let go and its more than a little sad/pathetic.

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3 minutes ago, Uwe Blab said:

This argument is so silly.  There's a cult-like devotion to Trumpism.  Drive across the country in May of 2001 and you aren't seeing Bush/Cheney signs...or in May of 2005...or *name winning candidate here* in the months after the election.  Your friend's argument is such more a slam on Trump supporters than anything related to Biden.  They just can't let go and its more than a little sad/pathetic.

It's creepy

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33 minutes ago, Dickies said:

Ballots were not sent to everyone.  They are sent only to legally registered voters.  How is this "ballot harvesting"?

I don't know who they were sent to - do you? What we are told is one thing, is it the truth?

And it was illegal anyway to do it and yet it was done. 

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6 minutes ago, Uwe Blab said:

This argument is so silly.  There's a cult-like devotion to Trumpism.  Drive across the country in May of 2001 and you aren't seeing Bush/Cheney signs...or in May of 2005...or *name winning candidate here* in the months after the election.  Your friend's argument is such more a slam on Trump supporters than anything related to Biden.  They just can't let go and its more than a little sad/pathetic.

I know a guy who drove 7900 miles through 15 states. He saw over 100 statues of Robert E. Lee, but he didn't see one single statue of William Tecumseh Sherman.

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question to Democrat / Biden / liberal leaning voters and Trump haters

 

if Trump runs in 2024 and gathers 90,000,000 votes, and gets 15 million more mail in votes than the Democrat candidate gets

are ya'll going to ask how that was possible or just shrug and say oh well, and never question it ?

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6 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

question to Democrat / Biden / liberal leaning voters and Trump haters

 

if Trump runs in 2024 and gathers 90,000,000 votes, and gets 15 million more mail in votes than the Democrat candidate gets

are ya'll going to ask how that was possible or just shrug and say oh well, and never question it ?

I will say that would be pretty suspicious, given the GOP candidate has won the popular vote only once since 1988.

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

question to Democrat / Biden / liberal leaning voters and Trump haters

 

if Trump runs in 2024 and gathers 90,000,000 votes, and gets 15 million more mail in votes than the Democrat candidate gets

are ya'll going to ask how that was possible or just shrug and say oh well, and never question it ?

In a non-pandemic environment, I would absolutely expect the Republican candidate to get significantly more mail-in votes.

Logic, science, and history would tend to support that conclusion.

But, also, I don't believe UFOs are real.

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5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

question to Democrat / Biden / liberal leaning voters and Trump haters

 

if Trump runs in 2024 and gathers 90,000,000 votes, and gets 15 million more mail in votes than the Democrat candidate gets

are ya'll going to ask how that was possible or just shrug and say oh well, and never question it ?

I would be interested to hear from experts who could shed light on the plausibility of such a result based on evidence.  My reaction would be informed by that analysis.

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5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I don't know who they were sent to - do you? What we are told is one thing, is it the truth?

And it was illegal anyway to do it and yet it was done. 

Can you find a single person who is claiming they were sent a ballot despite not registering to vote?  Your claim is that this is accounting for millions of illegal votes.  I would think there would have been massive confusion when ballots start arriving at people's homes who have no intent to vote.

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Posted (edited)

The simple litmus test here is generally anything named really patriotically or that puts words like freedom or liberty at the forefront is typically more about restricting freedoms than encouraging them.

If a bill is "for the people act" or "Patriot Act" or something based around "Freedom" it's typically enforcing the complete opposite of that.

"Democratic Republic of North Korea"

"Peoples Republic of China"

"Patriot Act"

etc

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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2 minutes ago, Dickies said:
17 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I don't know who they were sent to - do you? What we are told is one thing, is it the truth?

And it was illegal anyway to do it and yet it was done. 

Can you find a single person who is claiming they were sent a ballot despite not registering to vote?  Your claim is that this is accounting for millions of illegal votes.  I would think there would have been massive confusion when ballots start arriving at people's homes who have no intent to vote.

Not to mention that the ballot would need to be signed and then checked against the signature on record. Also, if someone harvested a ballot and submitted it, when the real person went to vote they'd be told they already did. If either of these scenarios happened millions of times, we'd hear about it. But we haven't - certainly not in the amount needed to flip an election.

People holding onto dreams and being mislead. There is one and only one person claiming fraud and he has a history of doing so every time an election result is not to his liking. He did it with Obama, he did it when Cruz beat him in a primary, and started whining about fraud months before a single ballot was cast in the election he lost. 

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21 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

question to Democrat / Biden / liberal leaning voters and Trump haters

 

if Trump runs in 2024 and gathers 90,000,000 votes, and gets 15 million more mail in votes than the Democrat candidate gets

are ya'll going to ask how that was possible or just shrug and say oh well, and never question it ?

Are Democrats in charge of the voting process saying that's on the up and up?

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15 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

I will say that would be pretty suspicious, given the GOP candidate has won the popular vote only once since 1988.

exactly

and so was Biden getting so many more votes than Hillary - during a pandemic no less - with hardly any rallies and with no visible support in most places people were and went

 

but if the above happened - you'd question it ........... and I'm questioning 2020 similarly

 

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1 minute ago, Thunderlips said:

Are Democrats in charge of the voting process saying that's on the up and up?

anymore I don't know who is in charge of what - so many people say so many things, so many media conflicting reports 

its chaos during elections - I have grown to hate the day of election for presidents in this country 

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3 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

Not to mention that the ballot would need to be signed and then checked against the signature on record. Also, if someone harvested a ballot and submitted it, when the real person went to vote they'd be told they already did. If either of these scenarios happened millions of times, we'd hear about it. But we haven't - certainly not in the amount needed to flip an election.

This has been explained a hundred times in this thread and others. It's not a deterrence.

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

exactly

and so was Biden getting so many more votes than Hillary - during a pandemic no less - with hardly any rallies and with no visible support in most places people were and went

 

but if the above happened - you'd question it ........... and I'm questioning 2020 similarly

 

I honestly think you're underestimating the anti-Trump vote, even among Republicans. There's a reason this was a historic turnout.

And Hillary was only the second most awful candidate in 2016.

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7 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

and then checked against the signature on record

you really think every ballot was checked ?

tens of millions ? can you imagine the time that'd take, manpower AND it was during a pandemic

 

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Just now, Amused to Death said:

I honestly think you're underestimating the anti-Trump vote, even among Republicans. There's a reason this was a historic turnout.

And Hillary was only the second most awful candidate in 2016.

there is truth to the above - the hate towards Trump was incredible and unprecedented 

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

you really think every ballot was checked ?

tens of millions ? can you imagine the time that'd take, manpower AND it was during a pandemic

 

Every? I don't know. But do you really believe a statistically significant randomized sample wasn't?

Now explain the other scenario where people show up to vote and are told they already did.

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I can't believe how long it takes to check the mail-in ballots!  It's totally suspicious that Trump was leading and Biden caught up while they counted the mail-in ballots!

Also, do you have any idea how long it would take to check mail-in ballots?  No way they did that, totally suspicious!

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3 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:
5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

you really think every ballot was checked ?

tens of millions ? can you imagine the time that'd take, manpower AND it was during a pandemic

 

Every? I don't know. But do you really believe a statistically significant randomized sample wasn't?

Now explain the other scenario where people show up to vote and are told they already did.

Per the WSJ:

How Do States Verify Signatures on Mail-In Ballots?

Most states use automated signature-verification applications, but there isn’t a uniform system

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4 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

I can't believe how long it takes to check the mail-in ballots!  It's totally suspicious that Trump was leading and Biden caught up while they counted the mail-in ballots!

Also, do you have any idea how long it would take to check mail-in ballots?  No way they did that, totally suspicious!

You expected rational thinking in their conspiracy theories?

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9 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

anymore I don't know who is in charge of what - so many people say so many things, so many media conflicting reports 

its chaos during elections - I have grown to hate the day of election for presidents in this country 

Your issue with not knowing who is in charge of what is a deliberate attempt to confuse the issue by Trump and Co.  

 

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11 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

exactly

and so was Biden getting so many more votes than Hillary - during a pandemic no less - with hardly any rallies and with no visible support in most places people were and went

 

but if the above happened - you'd question it ........... and I'm questioning 2020 similarly

 

Again - what you saw was as much a vote against Trump as it was for Biden.

I voted for Biden. Not because he was a great candidate but he was a better candidate than Trump in my opinion. I didn’t attend rallies, put up signs, watch speeches, etc but I still voted for Biden.

Regardless of where you fall on various policies or beliefs (and there are quite a few I believe in on the more conservative side) - the actions of the man who held that office for the past four years disgusted me more so than any policy that would have been put into place with the election of Biden. 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

you really think every ballot was checked ?

tens of millions ? can you imagine the time that'd take, manpower AND it was during a pandemic

 

Yes, which is why it took beyond election day to finish counting them.

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29 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

anymore I don't know who is in charge of what - so many people say so many things, so many media conflicting reports 

its chaos during elections - I have grown to hate the day of election for presidents in this country 

you know, you can find out yourself.  Why not go volunteer with your local election board and help out?  They are always looking for help.  That will give you some good insight into how things are ACTUALLY run.

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