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So I listened to the radio today...


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Saying that atheists don’t have ethics, morals or know right from wrong could be the wildest take on here I’ve seen, but if it’s being done in an effort to paint a hypothetical of an extreme case that has to include the religious aspect, I can see it.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

I said what I meant. Please don't edit my post, make your own. TIA.

Doing what is right is a religious phrase that’s been co opted by religions from Hindu to the Mormons. There are much better, real reasons for atheists doing things that benefit themselves and society.  

Edited by tonydead
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6 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

Many primates practice infanticide including chimpanzees, gorillas, baboons and langurs while others do not, including orangutans, bonobos and mouse lemurs. 

This is because orangutans, bonobos and mouse lemurs believe in God. 

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1 hour ago, ekbeats said:

If you can’t understand why a discussion of black culture is political then I don’t know what to tell you.  Res ipsa loquitor.

Clearly you don’t know what to tell me.

From where I’m sitting black culture being political doesn’t speak for itself

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36 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

 

Great. Now do a woman’s right to control her own medical decisions. I’ll wait to hear why these posts don’t apply to them. 

No doubt.   It's baffling seeing people on a certain side of that debate turn around and wine about people telling them what to do with their bodies over the past year.  

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Today I learned that I am bereft of proper morality and people like me are "nothing more than animals." Not sure if I should tell the wife and kids. 

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10 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

No doubt.   It's baffling seeing people on a certain side of that debate turn around and wine about people telling them what to do with their bodies over the past year.  

My body my choice except for vaccines, right?  Is it all that baffling?  Everyone is a hypocrite on the my body my choice nonsense.

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1 hour ago, Ramblin Wreck said:
12 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

No doubt.   It's baffling seeing people on a certain side of that debate turn around and wine about people telling them what to do with their bodies over the past year.  

My body my choice except for vaccines, right?  Is it all that baffling?  Everyone is a hypocrite on the my body my choice nonsense.

I for one don't give a #### what you do with your body.  Have an abortion, don't have an abortion.  Take the vaccine, don't take the vaccine.  Wear a mask, don't wear a mask.  I couldn't care less what choices you make as long as they don't impact me directly.  Just because I may disagree with your choice doesn't mean I don't think it should be your choice.  Is hypocrite another word that's lost all meaning in this day and age?  Seems like it.

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18 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

Laws? Our internal desire to help others or our want to be liked? Religion has no part of any of that.

ahh but laws have proven time and time again to be unethical and immoral - so no, that's not it 

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17 hours ago, squistion said:

Common sense. Group consensus. You don't have to be told that the right thing to do is to treat people honestly and fairly, the way you would want to be treated. It has nothing to do with religion or god.

then how do you explain all over the world the human atrocities that exist ?

its actually human nature to NOT treat people the way you want to be treated - its why so many people commit adultery, its why so many people do bad things .... they want to and so they do, but they'd never want that done to them

human nature is a funny thing 

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

ahh but laws have proven time and time again to be unethical and immoral - so no, that's not it 

Believe what you want. I was raised without any gods, my kids were raised without gods. We do pretty well. No gods here and living a pretty moral life.

You be you. 

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14 hours ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

 

Great. Now do a woman’s right to control her own medical decisions. I’ll wait to hear why these posts don’t apply to them. 

I'm showing another of today's hypocrisies

on one hand, its a woman's body to choose with what she wants

or, its a human body and the drugging and surgical alterations when transitioning are their choices

but the waters muddy a lot if I don't want to put an mRNA vaccine in my body

 

for the record I 100% support a person's right to do with their bodies what they want to - I don't support killing unborn's tough and with only 1 exception neither does our entire society and in fact, almost nobody really wants that (but yet it remains legal)

still, my point remains 

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3 hours ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

My body my choice except for vaccines, right?  Is it all that baffling?  Everyone is a hypocrite on the my body my choice nonsense.

No, for vaccines too.  

The fundamental difference being that one of these things we are talking about effects the people around you and the other effects the couple people making the choice.   I am consistent in my stance of do what you want to do, but when it starts effecting people around you negatively, then we have to talk.  It's how I approach drugs, prostitution, vaccinations, abortions, gun ownership, etc.  

 

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1 minute ago, KarmaPolice said:

No, for vaccines too.  

The fundamental difference being that one of these things we are talking about effects the people around you and the other effects the couple people making the choice.   I am consistent in my stance of do what you want to do, but when it starts effecting people around you negatively, then we have to talk.  It's how I approach drugs, prostitution, vaccinations, abortions, gun ownership, etc.  

 

I think the abortion effects the person being terminated

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26 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

then how do you explain all over the world the human atrocities that exist ?

its actually human nature to NOT treat people the way you want to be treated - its why so many people commit adultery, its why so many people do bad things .... they want to and so they do, but they'd never want that done to them

human nature is a funny thing 

How many of those atrocities were committed with the backing of religion as an excuse to do them?  Non-religious people certainly don't have a monopoly on doing horrible things.  

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

I think the abortion effects the person being terminated

Ok.  

It certainly doesn't effect you in any way if your neighbor made that choice, right?

Edited by KarmaPolice
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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Ok.  

It certainly doesn't effect you in any way if your neighbor made that choice, right?

Oh, we should only care if it effects us personally.  We shouldn't care what effects other people?  Interesting I wasn't expecting that.  I'll ponder that thought.

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Just now, Ramblin Wreck said:

Oh, we should only care if it effects us personally.  We shouldn't care what effects other people?  Interesting I wasn't expecting that.  I'll ponder that thought.

This isn't the abortion thread, and no need to debate when it's a "person" and when it's not.  

Just explaining my reasoning for you and explaining why I don't think it's hypocritical like you suggested.  I support both people's decision to do what they want with their bodies.    One effects the community at large, so there are different ramifications if businesses decide not to let them in, etc..   

I am most certainly saying that a woman can choose what she wants to do, but you can not.  However, the opposite is what a decent amount of people seem to be doing.  

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5 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

Looks like there's an awful lot of high horses in the PSF these days. The sanctimony is palatable. I'm starting to feel shame that I'm somehow a lesser person.

And I thought it was those damn liberals who were looking down on others that made them upset and helped get our last POTUS in office.   

Maybe the better way to go would to not mimic what you don't like from other people instead of doubling down on it?  

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9 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

Looks like there's an awful lot of high horses in the PSF these days. The sanctimony is palatable. I'm starting to feel shame that I'm somehow a lesser person.

Getting a taste of your own medicine, eh?

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11 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

Looks like there's an awful lot of high horses in the PSF these days. The sanctimony is palatable. I'm starting to feel shame that I'm somehow a lesser person.

Seems to be the new shtick...."whatever it takes to avoid focusing on me is what I'm gonna do".  I guess that's easier than self reflection....just drag everyone down to the level I think I'm being perceived.

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6 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:
15 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

Looks like there's an awful lot of high horses in the PSF these days. The sanctimony is palatable. I'm starting to feel shame that I'm somehow a lesser person.

Getting a taste of your own medicine, eh?

Explain.

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45 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

then how do you explain all over the world the human atrocities that exist ?

its actually human nature to NOT treat people the way you want to be treated - its why so many people commit adultery, its why so many people do bad things .... they want to and so they do, but they'd never want that done to them

human nature is a funny thing 

Here’s my take on this.

It is human nature to be selfish like it is with many animals. And this makes sense in the wild when you are at constant risk of death from lack of food, predators, etc.  Raising offspring can be a major exception to this. Humans and other animals can go to great personal sacrifice to protect their young.

There also seems to be some instinct to form strong bonds with a group.  Many animals do this.  How much of that is nurture and how much is nature, I don’t know.  This makes sense though as the group can provides protection. It is in one’s selfish best interest to conform.

With the intelligence and communication skills of humans, we are able to make rules against behaviors that most think doesn’t benefit the group and themselves. This has come in the form of religion and laws but can also be as simple as shunning someone for bad behavior.

I believe you mentioned how some male animals kill the young of their own species so they can mate with the female. How prevalent would that be in humans without rules? I don’t know but I’m sure it would happen more often even if it would still be rare. The fact that it is against our rules is a deterrent.

Morality comes from believing these rules are in the best interest of the group and abiding by them. Whether they are religious based or not usually doesn’t make much difference.  

 

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4 hours ago, The Commish said:

Seems to be the new shtick...."whatever it takes to avoid focusing on me is what I'm gonna do".  I guess that's easier than self reflection....just drag everyone down to the level I think I'm being perceived.

Great way to put it.  

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On 6/7/2021 at 6:20 AM, Thunderlips said:

By and large, people in this country defactively allow ethnicities control over the slurs that were used by the established to define them.    There's an understanding that they're "not allowed" to use said slurs and in doing so, put themselves out there for criticism and (anecdotally) a butt whipping if said in the company of the ethnicity in question. For some reason, the rank and file of this country don't want to extend to the black community that same guardianship.  You don't use ________ if you're not Italian.  You don't use _________ if you're not Chinese. You don't use _________ if you're Polish, Irish, French, Vietnamese or Sudanese.  It's that simple. Don't feel push the use of ________ if you're not African American.  

 

The N-word was the last thing that many black Americans heard shouted at them in hate and rage and in a manifestation of pure evil as they were hanged or shot or drowned or had their throats cut. Sometimes this was done in front of their own children.

These black Americans were slaughtered for wanting to vote. For trying to find work to feed their families. For wanting to walk down a city street without fear. For trying to buy a home to chase the American Dream. For starting a business to form a lasting legacy to protect the people they loved. For the crime of simply existing.

IIRC, something Ditkaless Wonders said years ago in the FFA, was that the limit of right versus wrong for him was if he could explain that action to his 8 year old daughter. That if he couldn't articulate the concept easily to a little girl, that the action in question was clearly wrong for him to do as a person, as a parent, as a citizen of a larger community and as an example for his child.

When my godson was 8 years old, I could not reasonably and rationally explain to him, at our kitchen table, why some people can use the N word and others cannot and should not, given the actual history of the word is linked with murder, suffering, oppression, terror, indignity, violence, racism and just plain pure hatred as a whole.

I refuse to sell out my own humanity to try to put context to the widespread battle cry used to rob human beings of their dignity.

It's a free country. It's your free speech. Some people don't like my personal politics, but no one can say I have ever tried to abridge anyone's free speech. If you can sit at your kitchen table and create context to hatred to your own 8 year old, then you clearly have a stronger stomach than I do. I hope I will never wake up one morning and find I have learned how to stomach something like that.

Real change in the world requires good men to become leaders for a greater good. Leaders to their communities, leaders in their workplaces, leaders to their families, but mostly leaders to themselves through being an example.

Be The Change You Want To See In The World.

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On 6/7/2021 at 3:47 PM, Stealthycat said:

another truth spoken

humanity is a surprising thing to study .... fascinating and depression and hopeful all wrapped into one

 

let me say this to prove my point

'If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore' - Donald Trump

unacceptable words, it banned him from media platforms, it resulted in impeachment .... those words Democrats and media will use for a long time

"xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" just about anything from  Lil Wayne - google it, disgusting. But, According to Celebrity Net Worth, Lil Wayne has an estimated net worth of $150 million. His music is loved and idolized

 

what is accepted and what isn't ............. driven by media

 

You might have a point if Lil wayne and his lil wayne cult of followers had lost a federal election and he was in the process of whipping them up in a frenzy to stop the results of that free and fair election being finalized but since that didnt happen what Lil Wayne has to say in his lyrics isnt particularly important to me.  It wasnt just the words and you know it....now back on topic.  

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On 6/7/2021 at 1:48 AM, rockaction said:

I'm probably the person in the politics section that listens to the most hip hop, and probably by far (aside from ilov80s) and I can say with no uncertainty that hip hop has gotten especially guttural. For all those making fun of this, they really don't know or don't understand the sexual depravity or indifference to life these kids seem to have.

On my Twitter feed, I follow Complex and XXL, two hip hop magazines. The first day I followed them, there were three deaths of twenty year old hip hop "stars" and one reminiscence of another dead one last year. It's crazy. It's completely violent and somehow acceptable because to criticize it is racist or prudish in some way. But it's generally ultra toxic, and expected given the usuals.

I half agree and half don't. Not worth arguing over in this thread though because as you implied, so many involved here would not really understand the context of the conversation anyway. 

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On 6/7/2021 at 3:47 PM, Stealthycat said:

another truth spoken

humanity is a surprising thing to study .... fascinating and depression and hopeful all wrapped into one

 

let me say this to prove my point

'If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore' - Donald Trump

unacceptable words, it banned him from media platforms, it resulted in impeachment .... those words Democrats and media will use for a long time

"xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" just about anything from  Lil Wayne - google it, disgusting. But, According to Celebrity Net Worth, Lil Wayne has an estimated net worth of $150 million. His music is loved and idolized

 

what is accepted and what isn't ............. driven by media

 

Donald Trump has way more fans and money than Lil Wayne so what are you even talking about? 

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14 hours ago, da_budman said:

You might have a point if Lil wayne and his lil wayne cult of followers had lost a federal election and he was in the process of whipping them up in a frenzy to stop the results of that free and fair election being finalized but since that didnt happen what Lil Wayne has to say in his lyrics isnt particularly important to me.  It wasnt just the words and you know it....now back on topic.  

that sounds great .... and meanwhile, women everywhere are demeaned, mistreated, name called and treated like dogs and the rap music echo's that and everyone pretends it doesn't matter

incredible isn't it ?

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13 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Donald Trump has way more fans and money than Lil Wayne so what are you even talking about? 

I'm talking about how Lil Wayne's "music" degrades women in every way possible and its considered art

I'm talking about how Lil Wayne made his entire fortune on it

I'm talking about how people are so into fair and equal and treating people the right way ........ but don't want to see how culture and music and all that matters

I submit its very hard for anyone here on this board or anywhere to pretend to champion women and then turn around and defend the like of Lil Wayne

If I posted the lyrics of a Lil Wayne song as part of my opinion on women, I'd be perm banned for it because of its content. I'd be facebook banned and in fact, probably banned from most platforms. 

yet its listened to in volume by young people and social groups 

is it unacceptable or isn't it ?

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

I'm talking about how Lil Wayne's "music" degrades women in every way possible and its considered art

I'm talking about how Lil Wayne made his entire fortune on it

I'm talking about how people are so into fair and equal and treating people the right way ........ but don't want to see how culture and music and all that matters

I submit its very hard for anyone here on this board or anywhere to pretend to champion women and then turn around and defend the like of Lil Wayne

If I posted the lyrics of a Lil Wayne song as part of my opinion on women, I'd be perm banned for it because of its content. I'd be facebook banned and in fact, probably banned from most platforms. 

yet its listened to in volume by young people and social groups 

is it unacceptable or isn't it ?

Or another way to think of it is that a rapper singing about things is art.  it doesn't mean they believe or practice these IRL.   Sure, some artists might, but I prefer to judge people on those actions, not pretend things like song lyrics, roles they play in a movie, or books they write.  

now, your boy Trump on the other hand, talked about and acted IRL crappy towards women.  

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48 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Or another way to think of it is that a rapper singing about things is art.  it doesn't mean they believe or practice these IRL.   Sure, some artists might, but I prefer to judge people on those actions, not pretend things like song lyrics, roles they play in a movie, or books they write.  

now, your boy Trump on the other hand, talked about and acted IRL crappy towards women.  

you think Trump acted towards women inappropriately and call it so but you call rap art ?

wowser

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

you think Trump acted towards women inappropriately and call it so but you call rap art ?

wowser

just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not an art, geezer.  

that goes for paintings, books, extreme horror movies, whatever.  it's not real life.   people are capable of doing those things and being humane, thoughtful, and moral people IRL.  

so yeah, I judge Lil  Wayne the person differently than Lil Wayne's lyrics.  

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not an art, geezer.  

that goes for paintings, books, extreme horror movies, whatever.  it's not real life.   people are capable of doing those things and being humane, thoughtful, and moral people IRL.  

so yeah, I judge Lil  Wayne the person differently than Lil Wayne's lyrics.  

 

justification of misogyny .... nice

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