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2021 College football thread - Auburn’s gotta Auburn. (1 Viewer)

Capella said:
15 years left in the grant of rights for starters. 
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Now would fsu punt this money away in order to guarantee double or triple or whatever for the long term after that? Sure, it’s possible but they would need to do some serious cost trimming. 

 
FairWarning said:
Actually what may make the most sense if the ACC gets raided somehow, - Syracuse, BC, Pitt.
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Maybe this is outdated thinking, but I still think Syracuse and Pitt are a package deal.

Would be interesting to see Cuse in the Big 10.  If you consider Rutgers to have delivered the NYC media market, then Cuse doesn't add any major markets, but I'm pretty sure NYC is more of a Cuse town than a Rutgers town.  Cuse is still "NY state's team"; they're still the athletics flagship for the entire state.

Pitt brings Pittsburgh, but I'm curious how much of Pittsburgh the Big 10 already has with the Penn State connections.  I don't know enough about Pittsburgh to know.

 
Steve Tasker said:
Maybe this is outdated thinking, but I still think Syracuse and Pitt are a package deal.

Would be interesting to see Cuse in the Big 10.  If you consider Rutgers to have delivered the NYC media market, then Cuse doesn't add any major markets, but I'm pretty sure NYC is more of a Cuse town than a Rutgers town.  Cuse is still "NY state's team"; they're still the athletics flagship for the entire state.

Pitt brings Pittsburgh, but I'm curious how much of Pittsburgh the Big 10 already has with the Penn State connections.  I don't know enough about Pittsburgh to know.
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Pitt is limited pretty much to Pittsburgh.  PSU has branch campuses all over the state, including one in New Kensington just outside of the 'Burg.  Pitt supporters pretty much hate Penn State as PSU is the big brother and pretty much the kingpin of college football in PA.  Pitt fans don't show up to their games; Heinz Field is usually half full, if they're lucky.  That kind of support won't fly in the Big 10.  If PSU, OSU, or Michigan show up, it's essentially another home game.

 
Capella said:
Syracuse and Pitt would be good to stay out of the AAC. They ain’t going to the big ten. 
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No way they leave for the AAC.  I was talking more of a scenario if the ACC were to start collapsing, or something, if other schools start jumping ship.  

Frankly, I'm very curious what happens to Syracuse when Boeheim retires.  Do they keep the basketball momentum or fade into obscurity like their football program?

 
Steve Tasker said:
No way they leave for the AAC.  I was talking more of a scenario if the ACC were to start collapsing, or something, if other schools start jumping ship.  
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So am I.
 

If the AAC collapses the answer for Cuse and Pitt aren’t going to be pleasant imo. 

 
Bama has a Home and Home w Texas in ‘22 and ‘23. So if the conference expands and goes to a 9-game schedule finally, Bama doesn’t have to buy out any OOC games to add another conference one.

Saban is always one step ahead;)

 
gump said:
Bama has a Home and Home w Texas in ‘22 and ‘23. So if the conference expands and goes to a 9-game schedule finally, Bama doesn’t have to buy out any OOC games to add another conference one.

Saban is always one step ahead;)
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Except Texas will probably still be a Big 12 member in '22.  The '23 game could be an interesting one to figure out.

 
gump said:
Bama has a Home and Home w Texas in ‘22 and ‘23. So if the conference expands and goes to a 9-game schedule finally, Bama doesn’t have to buy out any OOC games to add another conference one.

Saban is always one step ahead;)
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This has been in the works for quite a while. 

 
Steve Tasker said:
Maybe this is outdated thinking, but I still think Syracuse and Pitt are a package deal.

Would be interesting to see Cuse in the Big 10.  If you consider Rutgers to have delivered the NYC media market, then Cuse doesn't add any major markets, but I'm pretty sure NYC is more of a Cuse town than a Rutgers town.  Cuse is still "NY state's team"; they're still the athletics flagship for the entire state.

Pitt brings Pittsburgh, but I'm curious how much of Pittsburgh the Big 10 already has with the Penn State connections.  I don't know enough about Pittsburgh to know.
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When Rutgers was considered, the B10 was looking at Syracuse, probably Pitt also.

 
Oklahoma and Texas have informed the Big 12 that they "will not be renewing their grants of media rights following expiration in 2025."

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Does this mean they won't leave until 2025? Or they are hoping the league breaks up before that?

 
The Commish said:
really?
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I read that on another team's forum over the weekend from a supposed expert (yeah I know grain of salt).  It does make some sense in that what's the point of GOR if you can just buy yourself out of them anyway.  I think locking into them was part of the agreement to getting the ACC Network.

If this new commissioner can get a deal finalized with Comcast that should help close the money gap (until the SEC re-negotiates with Texas and OU part of the deal).  That and convincing Notre Dame to join (who apparently can't join any of conference until 2036 either) are the two things they need to happen to be the #3 power conference. The only other way I can think of to generate more revenue is team up with the powers in the big Pac-12 markets but that's obviously unlikely.

 
Have the two Coast Conferences team up with the conference title game alternating between Atlanta and Rose Bowl.  Tell Notre Dame and USC they can play every year.   

 
FairWarning said:
It’s also about teams recruiting in the NYC market.  Ask Texas how they liked the SEC coming into the state to recruit when TAMU joined the league.  
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I think we both know the answer to that question, given recent developments at least. That said, I’m not upset at realignment happening again, because I’m curious to see if Florida can make up ground in the conference.

 
Kal El said:
I think we both know the answer to that question, given recent developments at least. That said, I’m not upset at realignment happening again, because I’m curious to see if Florida can make up ground in the conference.
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That answer will be determined by league alignment as much as anything.

 
I have not read all the previous posts...but it looks to me like the SEC is trying to remove the NCAA from the equation and go on their own.  They could easily snag up the southern ACC teams like CLEM, MIA, FLST, VT, UVA, UNC, WF,  and NCST.  Add ND, WVU, CIN, and LOU.  Maybe others.  All those programs except maybe ND get more $s in the SEC.  And create a 20-35 team behemoth conference.  That pretty much leaves a lustless PACxx and a BIG10 that would likely try to add SYR and some BIG12 teams.  And maybe beg ND to come there instead of with wherever the ACC teams end up.

I think the only other way this goes is if the ACC and PAC10 join up to form a coastal conferences that play each other in some sort of title game.  I could see this as the ACC, PACx, and BIG10 play on the idea they are schools where you get a better education.  Although that argument will hold very little merit in the eyes of an 18 year old that sees ALA, UF, and UT players driving around in sweet cars and making $s.

Also, if the ACC is not swept up by the SEC, do MIA and FLST leave? 

I don't know the financials of any of this as far as buyouts, but it seems to me this is gonna play out almost entirely by geography and if a school is a certain size.  The ACC has some smaller schools.  So which ones would the SEC be interested in given that.

Last, I don't think some smaller football programs will even exist.  It causes Title 9 issues.  It's a huge expense and they aren't gonna get a paycheck for stepping up to lose to ALA 80-7 every other year.

 
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Ramblin Wreck said:
I read that on another team's forum over the weekend from a supposed expert (yeah I know grain of salt).  It does make some sense in that what's the point of GOR if you can just buy yourself out of them anyway.  I think locking into them was part of the agreement to getting the ACC Network.

If this new commissioner can get a deal finalized with Comcast that should help close the money gap (until the SEC re-negotiates with Texas and OU part of the deal).  That and convincing Notre Dame to join (who apparently can't join any of conference until 2036 either) are the two things they need to happen to be the #3 power conference. The only other way I can think of to generate more revenue is team up with the powers in the big Pac-12 markets but that's obviously unlikely.
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Not questioning you...just surprising is all.  I can't fathom the circumstance under which any of those ACC teams thought it would be a good idea to come to terms with no "out" clause.  I don't remember back to that time, but was there really THAT much pressure to keep the conference together?

 
Brunell4MVP said:
Last, I don't think some smaller football programs will even exist.  It causes Title 9 issues.  It's a huge expense and they aren't gonna get a paycheck for stepping up to lose to ALA 80-7 every other year.
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It's only a matter of time on this one.  A question of when, not if.  There will be some sort of consolidation with FCS programs, I think.  Some of the fringe FBS schools will drop football altogether (I'm looking at you, Akron).  I have to imagine there are discussions amongst the MAC, Conference USA, perhaps even the Sun Belt about where the schools want to be positioned for the inevitable collapse of G5 FBS college football.  

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Apparently the ACC owns your rights to all media until 2036.  So if Clemson left the ACC for the SEC, the ACC still gets all of Clemson's media money until 2036. 
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contracts are broken every minute of the day in America

If Clemson wants to leave they will be able to figure it out

 
pantherclub said:
contracts are broken every minute of the day in America

If Clemson wants to leave they will be able to figure it out
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Sure, but it would cost them a ton of money to do so. OU and UT can buy theirs out because it ends in 2025. 2036 is a whole different ballgame and the ACC would have no reason to take it easy on them. 

 
Brunell4MVP said:
I could see this as the ACC, PACx, and BIG10 play on the idea they are schools where you get a better education.  Although that argument will hold very little merit in the eyes of an 18 year old that sees ALA, UF, and UT players driving aroound in sweet cars and making $s.
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Is there some reason those 3 conferences can't pay their players money?

 
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I don't if y'all read Frank the Tank's blog on this back when realignment was hot but he's always had good analysis. Here's his latest article, where he talks about the other conferences (especially the Big Ten) may not do anything.

I thought this was interesting - 

"An undercurrent in the media stories and fan perception back in the realignment wars of 2010 was that the SEC had to be the revenue leader and top power broker because of its prowess on-the-field, but that was never correct: it was always the Big Ten in front… and that’s still the case now."

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I read that on another team's forum over the weekend from a supposed expert (yeah I know grain of salt).  It does make some sense in that what's the point of GOR if you can just buy yourself out of them anyway.  I think locking into them was part of the agreement to getting the ACC Network.

If this new commissioner can get a deal finalized with Comcast that should help close the money gap (until the SEC re-negotiates with Texas and OU part of the deal).  That and convincing Notre Dame to join (who apparently can't join any of conference until 2036 either) are the two things they need to happen to be the #3 power conference. The only other way I can think of to generate more revenue is team up with the powers in the big Pac-12 markets but that's obviously unlikely.
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I would imagine the practical, limiting part of that agreement is that if a super-majority of the ACC schools revolt against the provision-- and we're seeing some of that now with some ACC coaches (not even administrators) saying the current ACC payout means they'll be uncompetitive with the SEC and B1G.  If/once that sentiment reaches critical mass within the conference, then the ACC as we know it is kaput.  

Notre Dame continues to solidify its independence stance.  

Jay Bilas was just on the air advocating the ACC go on its knees to the SEC and beg for a merger.

The ACC is officially on the ropes.  That happened fast.

 
Tom Servo said:
You Oklahoma fans are screwed. Big 12 will consider “horns down” taunting and will be penalized.

“Lemme put it this way," Burks said. "If you do a Horns Down to a Texas player as an opponent, that's probably going to be a foul."

Burks said if a player turned to the crowd to throw the sign, it "probably" would not be a penalty.

"Please all of you note, I said 'probably,' Burks added. "We have to consider intent and consider the situation. We'll leave it to officials."
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UT fans/players should be concerned when no one does "horns down".

 
Capella said:
Now would fsu punt this money away in order to guarantee double or triple or whatever for the long term after that? Sure, it’s possible but they would need to do some serious cost trimming. 
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Best case for the ACC: Once a critical mass of the ACC says that the conference isnt competitive and thus they want to let each other out of the rights deal, then that's what will happen.  Your guess on what critical mass is is as good as mine, but more than 50% and less than 100% 😏.   Worst case?  Litigation.   Some of these school are not just going to let the

An ACC Coach, back in March on condition of anonymity:  "If we dont get out TV contract in the ballpark of the SEC and Big Ten, there will be no level playing field in the Power 5.  There will not be a Power 5 anymore."

 
CBS Sports: What's next?

In 2016, Iowa State athletic director Jamie Pollard made this prescient statement: "The Big 12 exists because we have Texas and Oklahoma in the room. If we take Texas and Oklahoma out of the room, we're the Mountain West Conference."

Those words hit like a sledgehammer today. As the SEC shocked the world by preparing to assume the 'Horns and Sooners, the Big 12 lost 50% to 75% of its value, several industry sources tell CBS Sports. Their TV contracts with ESPN and Fox contain language that allows the Big 12 networks to reduce payouts if there is a loss of membership.

"When you're losing two of the most visible programs, the network has the right to come and say, 'We're going to reduce the rights by X.'" one longtime, high-profile administrator said.

That means the Big 12 deal could drop from $37 million in annual revenue to as low as $9 million per school. Considering there aren't two schools available that come close to replacing the value of Texas and Oklahoma, the Big 12 is in troubled waters to say the least.
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As my high school chemistry teacher used to say, "Ouch, kids; that hurts."

 
Tango said:
Best case for the ACC: Once a critical mass of the ACC says that the conference isnt competitive and thus they want to let each other out of the rights deal, then that's what will happen.  Your guess on what critical mass is is as good as mine, but more than 50% and less than 100% 😏.   Worst case?  Litigation.   Some of these school are not just going to let the

An ACC Coach, back in March on condition of anonymity:  "If we dont get out TV contract in the ballpark of the SEC and Big Ten, there will be no level playing field in the Power 5.  There will not be a Power 5 anymore."
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How do smaller schools that don’t earn their football tv money on the field as it is (Duke, Pitt, Cuse, Wake, Miami, etc) ever come along to vote to dissolve. They’ll never earn that kind of football tv money again if the league folds. 

 
Tango said:
Best case for the ACC: Once a critical mass of the ACC says that the conference isnt competitive and thus they want to let each other out of the rights deal, then that's what will happen.  Your guess on what critical mass is is as good as mine, but more than 50% and less than 100% 😏.   Worst case?  Litigation.   Some of these school are not just going to let the

An ACC Coach, back in March on condition of anonymity:  "If we dont get out TV contract in the ballpark of the SEC and Big Ten, there will be no level playing field in the Power 5.  There will not be a Power 5 anymore."
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This.  The thinking that the GOR is some ironclad way to leverage teams to stay in conference with this much money being thrown about is insanity.  If clemson wants to bolt then you can damn well believe they will figure out a way to do so.  You better believe that their lawyers have already been looking at it for the past 4ish days.  One argument I read the schools can make is that there was a breach in contract in regards to the ACC network in part of the late start and crappy deals.  I am no lawyer but I am smart enough that you get enough of them together and things start getting fuzzy.  Sure if Clemson leaves they probably would pay a hefty fine but would recoup that in record time.

Here is another reason the GOR may not hold.  This is a post from an ACC school site.  Interesting nonetheless from an apparent lawyer.

"ACC has GOR locked up thru 2035-36 season. Other than the theory mentioned below the ACC will be as stable as ESPN desires. The Big12 GOR expire soon and UT and OU are not renewing.

An interesting point a friend of mine made about GOR and other legal ties to a conference is state sovereignty. Texas has a particularly strong law in this area and the University of Texas as a part of the state of Texas could use that sovereignty against any lawsuit. Virtually all states have laws that protect the state from lawsuit so public universities would fall under this law. It could get complicated quickly because these contracts could also be argued as interstate contracts falling under federal jurisdiction. Just a geeky interesting thing to think about if a state university breached. If they did they could get blackballed from anyone signing a future deal with them, so no matter the legal right the practical right may not really exist.

The approach UT and OU are taking (so far) is completely legal and no breach of contract anywhere."

 
whoknew said:
Oklahoma and Texas have informed the Big 12 that they "will not be renewing their grants of media rights following expiration in 2025."

---

Does this mean they won't leave until 2025? Or they are hoping the league breaks up before that?
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Yes and yes.  

Though this means they won't likely have to pay any buyout as the revenue deals all expire 2025.  

If the league folds before then.  They leave earlier.  

 
Capella said:
How do smaller schools that don’t earn their football tv money on the field as it is (Duke, Pitt, Cuse, Wake, Miami, etc) ever come along to vote to dissolve. They’ll never earn that kind of football tv money again if the league folds. 
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Jay Bilas is saying the ACC should beg the SEC for a merger.  I don't see that happening unless the SEC is trying to replace the NCAA but if it did and the SEC wanted 8-9 of the ACC and leave out Wake, Pitt, BC, and Syracuse what happens to the GOR?  Do they go away because the conference doesn't exist?  Certain number of votes?

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Jay Bilas is saying the ACC should beg the SEC for a merger.  I don't see that happening unless the SEC is trying to replace the NCAA but if it did and the SEC wanted 8-9 of the ACC and leave out Wake, Pitt, BC, and Syracuse what happens to the GOR?  Do they go away because the conference doesn't exist?  Certain number of votes?
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Espn holds the cards for SEC and ACC.  Its in their best interest to make something work out for all parties.  I didnt see Jays comment so I am not sure of the context but I have to assume that is what he is referring to.   ESPN can mitigate some sort of union between the 2 conferences. 

 
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