Competitive Dynasty Rebuild? (1 Viewer)

Anyone else making dramatic changes to a dynasty team this year while trying to stay competitive?

This was my 1st & I feel like it went well. As challenging as it’s been so far (I may not be done) overall I think it was worth the effort, if a little risky. But I knew I wasn’t gonna win it all with what I had. It was kind of a “come to Jesus” moment of reflection for a team I really liked. 

I’d be interested in seeing your rebuilding efforts.

• trades & picks you made this offseason (including trading up or down in the draft)

• before/after of your team’s starting lineup

• team depth after rebuild. 

• your mentality approaching the rebuild: did you have a plan going in or did you wing it as you went along? 

• how you feel as a result. Psyched? Regrets? 
 

go! 

Bueller? Bueller? Somehing....economics? Voodoo economics? 

Have been playing serious Dyn League FF for 20+ years. Maybe it's my own personal strategy that works for me, or something more widespread across the community, but after years of trying to 'have my cake, and eat it, too' unsuccessfully, I'm never in compete mode and rebuild mode at the same time, any more For me, it's now all-or-nothing - build something dominant, gauge the $$$ window years, and then tear it all down and start all over again. Again, that's what works for me. YMMV. Good luck!

nittanylion said:

Have been playing serious Dyn League FF for 20+ years. Maybe it's my own personal strategy that works for me, or something more widespread across the community, but after years of trying to 'have my cake, and eat it, too' unsuccessfully, I'm never in compete mode and rebuild mode at the same time, any more For me, it's now all-or-nothing - build something dominant, gauge the $$$ window years, and then tear it all down and start all over again. Again, that's what works for me. YMMV. Good luck!

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I considered that strategy. It seems like there would be smaller windows of competitive FF & longer stretches of rebuilding that way. 

Is that your experience? Or are you able to blow it all up & rebuild to a competitive level fairly quickly? 

Have you won your LCG using this strategy? 

nittanylion said:

Have been playing serious Dyn League FF for 20+ years. Maybe it's my own personal strategy that works for me, or something more widespread across the community, but after years of trying to 'have my cake, and eat it, too' unsuccessfully, I'm never in compete mode and rebuild mode at the same time, any more For me, it's now all-or-nothing - build something dominant, gauge the $$$ window years, and then tear it all down and start all over again. Again, that's what works for me. YMMV. Good luck!

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In my most important high-stakes Dyn League, which I helped found in 2001, I purposefully went about winning a Championship in Year 1. I squeezed as much winnings out of that Team for the next few years, before trying the compete/rebuild approach for probably close to a decade. I wound up with a bunch of 5-8, 6-7, 7-6, 8-5 Teams that were either just out of the Playoffs, or just in, and that became my approach, build a Team just good enough to make the Playoffs, then see what happens. It's a pretty significant buy-in, where you can win your entry fee back for just making the playoffs, and the winning the Championship pays out almost 7x the Entry Fee, so that approach has kept me just in the black for the life of the League (a few Final 4's and a Runner-Up, along with several 1st Round exits and more non-Playoff Years than I intended), but it started to feel very unsatisfying to grind like that. After I went scorched-earth the 1st time, it felt really weird. It also felt really weird going 1-12...but I'm building a competitor designed for sustained success. I'm still getting my arms around the whole process, in terms of feeling comfortable with it, but I think I'm a better Player for having gone down that road.

nittanylion said:

After I went scorched-earth the 1st time, it felt really weird. It also felt really weird going 1-12...but I'm building a competitor designed for sustained success. I'm still getting my arms around the whole process, in terms of feeling comfortable with it, but I think I'm a better Player for having gone down that road.

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Appreciate that insight. I may consider this approach if my competitive rebuild fails. 

Here's the rebuild over the last few days. I would be interested in seeing other approaches, as it's a topic I find fascinating in Dynasty. The last replies offer an alternative which I also find interesting. 

Dynasty SF, PPR, 6 pt TD, but .1/40 PaYd.

Must start 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE then 1 SF & 3 Flex

Made the playoffs 3/3 years since we began. Came in 3rd, 3rd & 4th after getting knocked out every time but one because a player missed a game in week 15 & I didn't have the depth to cover it. The 1st year I just got blowed out by the highest single game score in league history or I woulda won it all. I made a few moves to consolidate depth into Fuller & Carson mid-season last year, and it left me thin this year. 

I knew I had to make wholesale changes, because I wasn't gonna get it done with this roster, and all my value was tied to Mahomes & an aging WR corps. So I did have a rebuild plan involving Hopkins + Mahomes, just not with specific player targets in mind. From there I played it by ear to see who'd be willing to trade, and for what. 

Headed into this year: 

QB: Mahomes/Carr/DJones

WR: Hopkins/ARob/Evans/Fuller/Samuel/Cole/CedWilson/TyWill/Snead

RB: Carson/RoJo/Sony/Hill/Ingram/Hyde/Hasty/Duke Johnson/D'Ernest Johnson/Ollison/McCoy/Hyde

TE: EEngram/Gronk/Sample/Uzomah/Ertz

Trades made: 

1. Hopkins for 1.08 (Pitts was there) and a 2022 2.xx (likely mid-to-late) . When Pitts was there at 1.08, I felt like there was opportunity to get a next gen TE & I've never had one on a team before. I tried with EE in our inaugural draft, but he's largely been a bust. This deal started the rebuild mentality, so it really helped me to get into the mindset to feel comfortable about moving Mahomes. 

2. Mahomes for Z.Wilson, CEH, Higgins, 2022 1.xx & 2023 1.xx

3. Curtis Samuel (who I got for Tonyan last year, who I got for $9 FAAB) & the 2022 2nd I landed for Hopkins for Chase Edmonds. 

4. ETA: Just dealt Gronk for Bourne + 4.07, took Noah Gray)

5. 2023 1.xx,(acquired in the Mahomes deal), 2022 3rd, 2023 4th for Michael Pittman 

Resulting roster: 

ZWilson/Carr (D.Jones)

CEH/Carson/Edmonds (RoJo, Sony/Hill/Ingram/Hyde/Hasty/Duke Johnson/D'Ernest Johnson/Ollison/McCoy, Larry Roundtree (5.07), Darwin Thompson (trade for Hyde)

Evans/ARob/Higgins/Pittman/Fuller (Bourne/Pringle/Snead/TyWill/Cole/CedWilson) 

Pitts (EE/Uzomah/Sample/Gronk/Noah Gray)

And the two 1sts in 2022, still 1 1st in 2023.

How do I feel about it? 

Mixed emotions. Mahomes & Hopkins were my 1st two auction picks in our inaugural season.  I loved having them & they were both very good to my team.

But as my team aged out, and as I had less and less depth due to "going for it" with trades trying to get me over the top, it became apparent that I wasn't going to win with that roster. I knew I had to rebuild. I considered standing pat & pushing for a total overhaul in 2023, but that just isn't that fun. For one, I had slim chances of winning it all as-is, and for another, Hopkins would turn 30 this year, & he and other aging players would lose trade value the longer I waited.

I am pretty happy with what I got in return for every trade. I especially like the package I pulled in for Mahomes. I damn near got Metcalf in that deal instead of Higgins and the picks, but I'm still ok with it. Obviously Z.Will & CEH need to come through for me, but I'm optimistic on both players. 

Overall I'm really pleased with the new lineup, and while it still might not get me the 'ship this year, it does give me a better chance at it than what I had, and it feels really good to have RoJo as a 4th RB than a 2nd since Fournette re-signed with  TB (that #!%#$!).  I also feel like even if it doesn't work out short term, I've obtained enough pieces/picks that I could make more deals in the future to stay competitive as opposed to having a bunch of aging players losing value + Mahomes. Like, if things aren't going well & Carson/Evans/ARob are showing well, I could see flipping them into younger players + 2022 picks mid-to-late season to contending teams.

It was much more challenging to get it all done than I'd expected. Exhausting, really. While everyone wanted Mahomes, no one wanted to decimate their team to get him. I imagine a complete rebuild/tank would be much simpler as people were much more willing to give up future picks for Mahomes than they were to give up players. I was fortunate that the D.Watson owner had drafted Z.Will, and had a plethora of good young players I liked, and and depth to deal them. 

I'm tempted to plug both rosters into the FBG "rate my tyeam" topic to see which they prefer. I'd be shocked if they like my original roster more. 

Would love to hear how others have done in this process. 

nittanylion said:

In my most important high-stakes Dyn League, which I helped found in 2001, I purposefully went about winning a Championship in Year 1. I squeezed as much winnings out of that Team for the next few years, before trying the compete/rebuild approach for probably close to a decade. I wound up with a bunch of 5-8, 6-7, 7-6, 8-5 Teams that were either just out of the Playoffs, or just in, and that became my approach, build a Team just good enough to make the Playoffs, then see what happens. It's a pretty significant buy-in, where you can win your entry fee back for just making the playoffs, and the winning the Championship pays out almost 7x the Entry Fee, so that approach has kept me just in the black for the life of the League (a few Final 4's and a Runner-Up, along with several 1st Round exits and more non-Playoff Years than I intended), but it started to feel very unsatisfying to grind like that. After I went scorched-earth the 1st time, it felt really weird. It also felt really weird going 1-12...but I'm building a competitor designed for sustained success. I'm still getting my arms around the whole process, in terms of feeling comfortable with it, but I think I'm a better Player for having gone down that road.

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Not to hijack the OP but I'm interested in hearing more about your rebuild moves.

Hot Sauce Guy said:

Here's the rebuild over the last few days. I would be interested in seeing other approaches, as it's a topic I find fascinating in Dynasty. The last replies offer an alternative which I also find interesting. 

Dynasty SF, PPR, 6 pt TD, but .1/40 PaYd.

Must start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, then 1 SF & 3 Flex

Made the playoffs 3/3 years since we began. Came in 3rd, 3rd & 4th after getting knocked out every time but one because a player missed a game in week 14 & I didn't have the depth to cover it. The 1st year I just got blowed out by the highest single game score in league history or I woulda won it all. I made a few moves to consolidate depth into Fuller & Carson mid-season last year, and it left me thin this year. 

I knew I had to make wholesale changes, because I wasn't gonna get it done with this roster, and all my value was tied to Mahomes & an aging WR corps. So I did have a rebuild plan involving Hopkins + Mahomes, just not with specific player targets in mind. From there I played it by ear to see who'd be willing to trade, and for what. 

Headed into this year: 

QB: Mahomes/Carr/DJones

WR: Hopkins/ARob/Evans/Fuller/Samuel/Cole/CedWilson/TyWill/Snead

RB: Carson/RoJo/Sony/Hill/Ingram/Hyde/Hasty/Duke Johnson/D'Ernest Johnson/Ollison/McCoy

TE: EEngram/Gronk/Sample/Uzomah/Ertz

Trades made: 

1. Hopkins for 1.08 (Pitts was there) and a 2022 2.xx (likely mid-to-late) . When Pitts was there at 1.08, I felt like there was opportunity to get a next gen TE & I've never had one on a team before. I tried with EE in our inaugural draft, but he's largely been a bust. This deal started the rebuild mentality, so it really helped me to get into the mindset to feel comfortable about moving Mahomes. 

2. Mahomes for Z.Wilson, CEH, Higgins, 2022 1.xx & 2023 1.xx

3. Curtis Samuel (who I got for Tonyan last year, who I got for $9 FAAB) & the 2022 2nd I landed for Hopkins for Chase Edmonds. 

4. ETA: Just dealt Gronk for Bourne + 4.07, with which I might take the KC rookie TE2)

Resulting roster: 

ZWilson/Carr (Jones)

CEH/Carson/Edmonds (RoJo)

Evans/ARob/Higgins/Fuller (Bourne/Pringle/Snead/TyWill/Cole/CedWilson) 

Pitts (EE/Uzomah/Sample/Gronk)

And the two 1sts in 2022 / 2023

How do I feel about it? 

Mixed emotions. Mahomes & Hopkins were my 1st two auction picks in our inaugural season.  I loved having them & they were both very good to my team.

But as my team aged out, and as I had less and less depth due to "going for it" with trades trying to get me over the top, it became apparent that I wasn't going to win with that roster. I knew I had to rebuild. I considered standing pat & pushing for a total overhaul in 2023, but that just isn't that fun. For one, I had slim chances of winning it all as-is, and for another, Hopkins would turn 30 this year, & he and other aging players would lose trade value the longer I waited.

I am pretty happy with what I got in return for every trade. I especially like the package I pulled in for Mahomes. I damn near got Metcalf in that deal instead of Higgins and the picks, but I'm still ok with it. Obviously Z.Will & CEH need to come through for me, but I'm optimistic on both players. 

Overall I'm really pleased with the new lineup, and while it still might not get me the 'ship this year, it does give me a better chance at it than what I had, and it feels really good to have RoJo as a 4th RB than a 2nd since Fournette re-signed with  TB (that #!%#$!).  I also feel like even if it doesn't work out short term, I've obtained enough pieces/picks that I could make more deals in the future to stay competitive as opposed to having a bunch of aging players losing value + Mahomes. Like, if things aren't going well & Carson/Evans/ARob are showing well, I could see flipping them into younger players + 2022 picks mid-to-late season to contending teams.

It was much more challenging to get it all done than I'd expected. Exhausting, really. While everyone wanted Mahomes, no one wanted to decimate their team to get him. I imagine a complete rebuild/tank would be much simpler as people were much more willing to give up future picks for Mahomes than they were to give up players. I was fortunate that the D.Watson owner had drafted Z.Will, and had a plethora of good young players I liked, and and depth to deal them. 

I'm tempted to plug both rosters into the FBG "rate my tyeam" topic to see which they prefer. I'd be shocked if they like my original roster more. 

Would love to hear how others have done in this process. 

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Seems like a good haul for Mahomes, but still would be really hard to pull the trigger.

I am not very experienced with rebuilding teams or blowing up my roster. That just never happens with me. If my team is bad its usually in the first few seasons of the league and once the team gets good it tends to stay that way. I might have a bad year with injuries or something along the way but I just never find myself in a position where I think I need to blow it all up and start over.

I think part of the reason for this is because I am always trading for other teams rookie picks. Doesn't matter how good my team is I am always seeking rookie picks. You give me a few seasons with multiple rookie picks and yeah who needs to rebuild? Or I guess you could say I am always rebuilding.

I do love the haul you got for Mahomes. I think that is going to help your team more than having Mahomes would.

I'm pretty much always in compete mode with an eye on the future.  Always trying to balance the two.  Usually competitive but rarely a dominant team (2 championships in the 22 years of the league).

zed2283 said:

Seems like a good haul for Mahomes, but still would be really hard to pull the trigger.

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It was really, really hard to pull the trigger.

zed2283 said:

I'm pretty much always in compete mode with an eye on the future.  Always trying to balance the two.  Usually competitive but rarely a dominant team (2 championships in the 22 years of the league).

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Do you think a complete Armageddon-style rebuild would be a better approach? And do you think you'd enjoy the experience of long-suffering for potentially greater reward? 

Hot Sauce Guy said:

Do you think a complete Armageddon-style rebuild would be a better approach? And do you think you'd enjoy the experience of long-suffering for potentially greater reward? 

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I don't think it's in my personality to do it.  I always see my good (young?) players as building blocks rather than assets.  I'm just always trying to improve each slot.

We do have a guy in that league who is inclined to go big like that (both ways).  I currently have his '21, '22, and '23 firsts (used his '20 first on Akers last year).  Like Biabreakable said, give me some extra rookie picks and who needs a rebuild?

Biabreakable said:

I think part of the reason for this is because I am always trading for other teams rookie picks. Doesn't matter how good my team is I am always seeking rookie picks. You give me a few seasons with multiple rookie picks and yeah who needs to rebuild? Or I guess you could say I am always rebuilding.

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Yeah - I dealt quite a few picks over the years, because I kept coming soooooo close. I'd deal players/picks for upgrades at a position I was weak in, and then end up getting there & losing something else. Like the little Dutch boy tryina plug the holes in the dyke. So a combination of being short-handed & some bad luck. 

I do love the haul you got for Mahomes. I think that is going to help your team more than having Mahomes would.

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Yep - that's the idea 

Hot Sauce Guy said:

Do you think a complete Armageddon-style rebuild would be a better approach? And do you think you'd enjoy the experience of long-suffering for potentially greater reward? 

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For me the problem with Armageddon-style is you still need to hit on the draft picks, and I think that's sketchy.

zed2283 said:

I don't think it's in my personality to do it.  I always see my good (young?) players as building blocks rather than assets.  I'm just always trying to improve each slot.

We do have a guy in that league who is inclined to go big like that (both ways).  I currently have his '21, '22, and '23 firsts (used his '20 first on Akers last year).  Like Biabreakable said, give me some extra rookie picks and who needs a rebuild?

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Now that this is complete, I'm officially out of the "selling all my picks" phase of Dyansty. I've stacked some picks for 2022 & way more for 2023, so I'm really hoping 2023 is a good NFL draft where I can reload. 

Hot Sauce Guy said:

Now that this is complete, I'm officially out of the "selling all my picks" phase of Dyansty. I've stacked some picks for 2022 & way more for 2023, so I'm really hoping 2023 is a good NFL draft where I can reload. 

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We have another guy there who was selling picks for the last several years to win now (I gave him Julio for two firsts, as an example).  I think he made it to 4 out of the last 5 championship games and finally won it last year.

zed2283 said:

We have another guy there who was selling picks for the last several years to win now (I gave him Julio for two firsts, as an example).  I think he made it to 4 out of the last 5 championship games and finally won it last year.

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That was my style. The challenge there is that you're spending more player equity than getting players, so you experience roster shrinkage. That lack of depth comes back to haunt you, I find 

Hot Sauce Guy said:

That was my style. The challenge there is that you're spending more player equity than getting players, so you experience roster shrinkage. That lack of depth comes back to haunt you, I find 

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For sure, but it's probably worth it for most people.

zed2283 said:

For sure, but it's probably worth it for most people.

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It was for the last 3 years, but I just couldn't go into this season with RoJo as my RB2, Carson as my 1, and a weekly dart throw at TE. It was at the point that I didn't even think I could cover BYEs, and that's in a SF with 3 flex positions. 

Just for giggles, I used the FBG "rate my team" and  before the rebuild I had an A-

After the rebuild I have a B-

I assume that's specific to "2021 FFB" and not a long-term view. 

If you have too many rookies - you will always be in rebuild.  It is difficult to continually chase the next best thing.  Although, I am in the same boat you have spoken about being in... I have soured on Mike Evans.  Great player, but I think it will be difficult to increase (or even maintain) his value going forward.  I am trying to sell.  Nobody is buying for a value he is worth.  I have added picks to try and get better picks, but nothing.  I'd be interested if you have any takers for Mike Evans and what they were willing to pay.

However, I would not be so bold to sell Hopkins and Mike Evans in the same season because again - rookies = total rebuild. 

I farmed some of my depth and 2022 picks for 2021 (early) picks and have 1.1, 1.2, 1.7 and 1.12 - honestly, if I can hit with at least 2 of those people as constant starters - that is probably more successful than I would have been with the picks from 2022. 

Hot Sauce Guy said:

Just for giggles, I used the FBG "rate my team" and  before the rebuild I had an A-

After the rebuild I have a B-

I assume that's specific to "2021 FFB" and not a long-term view. 

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Of course. The rookie picks can be valued but only in a pretty abstract sense when one considers time value discounts and so on.

I view rookie picks like buying a bond. No asset is really more stable and its value always matures. Trading for rookie picks is the ultimate buy low.

You don't even have to make the picks, you can always sell them for players you want as well.

TVT 0 N S T A said:

If you have too many rookies - you will always be in rebuild.  It is difficult to continually chase the next best thing.  Although, I am in the same boat you have spoken about being in... I have soured on Mike Evans.  Great player, but I think it will be difficult to increase (or even maintain) his value going forward.  I am trying to sell.  Nobody is buying for a value he is worth.  I have added picks to try and get better picks, but nothing.  I'd be interested if you have any takers for Mike Evans and what they were willing to pay.

However, I would not be so bold to sell Hopkins and Mike Evans in the same season because again - rookies = total rebuild. 

I farmed some of my depth and 2022 picks for 2021 (early) picks and have 1.1, 1.2, 1.7 and 1.12 - honestly, if I can hit with at least 2 of those people as constant starters - that is probably more successful than I would have been with the picks from 2022. 

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Yep - I was looking to move either Evans, or Hopkins. Hopkins drew the best return, but I did have a couple folks sniffing a buy-low on Evans. He had a monster game towards the end of last season (during the playoffs) that I think did raise some eyebrows & bump his value a bit. I'm hoping he shows well this  year as I would like to turn him into a 2023 1st sometime next year. 

Hot Sauce Guy said:

Just for giggles, I used the FBG "rate my team" and  before the rebuild I had an A-

After the rebuild I have a B-

I assume that's specific to "2021 FFB" and not a long-term view. 

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I have found some of those rate my teams to not value future picks very well.  I know the one site I use doesn't take it into account at all which I find to be a pretty big error.  

For instance I have 1.01 and 1.04 in this draft, but until those players are put on my roster it accounts for nothing/minimal.

Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yep - I was looking to move either Evans, or Hopkins. Hopkins drew the best return, but I did have a couple folks sniffing a buy-low on Evans. He had a monster game towards the end of last season (during the playoffs) that I think did raise some eyebrows & bump his value a bit. I'm hoping he shows well this  year as I would like to turn him into a 2023 1st sometime next year. 

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It's difficult to get value for aging players.  Tried Evans + pick 12 for CEH (who has done nothing).  Guy needs a WR2 and declined without a counter offer.     I'm not that high on CEH but situationally I think he has more potential than any back at pick 12, but I am not going to give away Evans just because he is a little long in the tooth.  

TVT 0 N S T A said:

If you have too many rookies - you will always be in rebuild.  It is difficult to continually chase the next best thing.  Although, I am in the same boat you have spoken about being in... I have soured on Mike Evans.  Great player, but I think it will be difficult to increase (or even maintain) his value going forward.  I am trying to sell.  Nobody is buying for a value he is worth.  I have added picks to try and get better picks, but nothing.  I'd be interested if you have any takers for Mike Evans and what they were willing to pay.

However, I would not be so bold to sell Hopkins and Mike Evans in the same season because again - rookies = total rebuild. 

I farmed some of my depth and 2022 picks for 2021 (early) picks and have 1.1, 1.2, 1.7 and 1.12 - honestly, if I can hit with at least 2 of those people as constant starters - that is probably more successful than I would have been with the picks from 2022. 

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This is also true I have seen owners who chase youth year after year and they never get very far because they are usually buying high to get the shiny new toy and they don't keep the good players they do get long enough.

Even though I am trying to acquire rookie picks constantly I am usually starting veterans and buying veterans as well when I like the price. The rookies have to be very good to actually move into starting positions for me. I ride a lot of players into the sunset as well because often they reach a point that the return on investment isn't enough to move them.

TVT 0 N S T A said:

It's difficult to get value for aging players.  Tried Evans + pick 12 for CEH (who has done nothing).  Guy needs a WR2 and declined without a counter offer.     I'm not that high on CEH but situationally I think he has more potential than any back at pick 12, but I am not going to give away Evans just because he is a little long in the tooth.  

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Yeah, same. FWIW that seems like a fair offer. I am a bit higher on CEH than you, but a 1.12 pick + Evans seems like good value to me. 

Sounds easy but if your team isnt getting younger, its getting older

IHEARTFF said:

Sounds easy but if your team isnt getting younger, its getting older

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I mean, this right here for sure. 

Posted this over in the AC forum to track my activity for my first every dynasty team I took over as an orphan before a five team dispersal draft, so more of a "build" than a "rebuild"...  (Broken up into two posts on there so far)

Dynasty Build

I have found that playing for "next year" is perpetual and those teams never get to "next year".  My league is different than most in that we don't have playoffs.  We play the full season and best record takes the title.  Because of that you don't have the luck of the playoffs aspect that can derail a good team.  Usually good owners stay good and bad owners stay bad.  In the 15 years of the league I have three titles (one team has four - he went back to back twice).  I have the second most wins (behind the guy with four titles) and I never play for next year.  Last year was the closest I have ever done that but that was because I was up against the salary cap and needed to get lower salaried so I traded high priced guys (Lamar, Chubb, IDP guys) and got high upside injured guys (Dak, Mixon).  I also was able to get Taylor before he started to rise in value (got him at the lowpoint).  I was able to cut my salary a bunch by picking up injured players that are good when healthy (we have escalations based on performance so a non-contract guy that gets injured is good for longer term salary implications).  I was also able to gain an extra first rounder by trading guys I wasn't going to be able to keep to a contender.  

I also only look at 2-yr windows because too many things change to plan for anything longer than that.  So the idea of rebuild is never really a thing for me.  It has worked for me as I usually obtain aging vets with stuff left in the tank to the teams "playing for next year" at a discount which keeps me in the upper tier of teams each year.  It may not work in a playoff format but for a year long format it works great.  

Hot Sauce Guy said:

Do you think a complete Armageddon-style rebuild would be a better approach? And do you think you'd enjoy the experience of long-suffering for potentially greater reward? 

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I was left with little choice.  I took over an orphan that went 1-12 year before.  The only real assets were 1.01 and AJ Brown.   I made 12 trades since March.  I sold assets & then sold some of what I acquired for more assets.   1 QB, 1-3 RB, 2-5 WR, 1-3 TE  0.5 PPR 

Over the team is competitive but not championship caliber.  

QB before:  D Carr & P Rivers.                                                                    QB Now:  A Rodgers, J Love, C Wentz

RB was:   Malcom Brown, P Lindsay, C Hyde                                             RB Now:  N Chubb, M Boone, M Brown, P Lindsay, C Hyde

WR was: AJ Brown, Corey Davis, Lockett, Pittman, JJAW, Agholor            WR Now:  Hollywood Brown, DJ Chark, Fuller, Lockett, Pittman, Tyrell Williams, Agholor, Marvin Jones

TE before:  J Cook                                                                                        TE Now:  TJ Hockenson, Jonnu Smith 

Plus I have for 2022 Draft picks:  2 1st & 3 2nds      2021 Draft Rounds 1-3 are complete.  I have 4.01 that starts mid-August 

Some players I picked up and sold off:  Miles Sanders, Damien Harris, Cam Newton, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Mercole Hardman, Devante Parker, Bryan Edwards

View of the trades:  Every owner has a different price on an "asset".  If you are not getting what you feel warranted, move on.  Somebody else is looking to buy.  I shopped Lockett to all owners without getting a reasonable offer, so now I kept him.  

While I still need a good RB2, I have been shopping Chubb without anything worthy.  I was targeting being competitive in 2022 so anything in 2021 is bonus!

Gally said:

I also only look at 2-yr windows because too many things change to plan for anything longer than that.  So the idea of rebuild is never really a thing for me.  It has worked for me as I usually obtain aging vets with stuff left in the tank to the teams "playing for next year" at a discount which keeps me in the upper tier of teams each year.  It may not work in a playoff format but for a year long format it works great.  

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I'm basically looking at this rebuild as a 2-year project. I've built up some draft equity for 2023 (2x 1sts, 2nds & 3rds) so this rebuild is my 2-year plan. in 2023 I can reload. 

The challenge will come in late 2021 or 2022, if my team is competing & I feel like I could get to the promised land by dealing some of that 2023 equity it's gonna be hard to stand pat. 

But the plan is to hold my picks & use that to rebuild while shedding some older talent in 2022 to build up even more draft equity for 2023. 

Sticking to the plan is the tough part. 

Birdie048 said:

I was left with little choice.  I took over an orphan that went 1-12 year before.  The only real assets were 1.01 and AJ Brown.   I made 12 trades since March.  I sold assets & then sold some of what I acquired for more assets.   1 QB, 1-3 RB, 2-5 WR, 1-3 TE  0.5 PPR 

Over the team is competitive but not championship caliber.  

QB before:  D Carr & P Rivers.                                                                    QB Now:  A Rodgers, J Love, C Wentz

RB was:   Malcom Brown, P Lindsay, C Hyde                                             RB Now:  N Chubb, M Boone, M Brown, P Lindsay, C Hyde

WR was: AJ Brown, Corey Davis, Lockett, Pittman, JJAW, Agholor            WR Now:  Hollywood Brown, DJ Chark, Fuller, Lockett, Pittman, Tyrell Williams, Agholor, Marvin Jones

TE before:  J Cook                                                                                        TE Now:  TJ Hockenson, Jonnu Smith 

Plus I have for 2022 Draft picks:  2 1st & 3 2nds      2021 Draft Rounds 1-3 are complete.  I have 4.01 that starts mid-August 

Some players I picked up and sold off:  Miles Sanders, Damien Harris, Cam Newton, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Mercole Hardman, Devante Parker, Bryan Edwards

View of the trades:  Every owner has a different price on an "asset".  If you are not getting what you feel warranted, move on.  Somebody else is looking to buy.  I shopped Lockett to all owners without getting a reasonable offer, so now I kept him.  

While I still need a good RB2, I have been shopping Chubb without anything worthy.  I was targeting being competitive in 2022 so anything in 2021 is bonus!

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Well done - this looks like an extremely challenging project, but I can't imagine doing much better than what you've done considering what you had to work with. 

Thanks for sharing it here - it lends great real-world perspective on what such a complete rebuild would require. I'm kinda glad I went with this approach tbh, as this looks like a significant challenge. 

Much of this discussion has been "how to not get to a full rebuild stage". Which kind of does, as people have said, involve not getting left holding the bag on old assets. And if you do it right, you're not selling everything at once and you can remain competitive.

But sometimes, despite your best efforts, there are times where you have to declare a We Were Soldiers-type Broken Arrow. IMO, at that time, you forget about competitiveness and engage Fire Sale Mode.

From there it's a cycle of acquire/sell/acquire until the team looks like you want it to. In that, you're going to win some/lose some. 

I don't really mind trading away future picks if I think it gets me a good player this year. I figure it is going to take a year or two for most players to mature, so if I can do that all at once I will so that the whole team matures at roughly the same time. I do this knowing that my next year's first might lead to a higher pick for my trade partner, but I get to accelerate the use and maturity of a player by a year.

Random thoughts. Hope some of that makes sense.

Edit: Oh, and don't hang on to a player just because you like him if your team is still mired in mediocrity. Assets are to be used to get more assets until you're good.

When I do a rebuild, it's usually "punt on the current season, try to compete next year & beyond". I'm not doing any this year, but I did do one last year.

Basic idea: trade away declining assets. You can think of declining assets in terms of production as guys where a high fraction of their remaining career production is coming in the current year. Or you can think of them in terms of trade value, as guys whose trade value a year from now is likely to be significantly less than it is now.

Acquire future rookie picks, rookies, other young prospects, injured players, and also players who are a good value.

Don't worry about roster balance, or how your roster looks this year.

In my rebuild last year (superflex + TE premium), I traded away Evans, Ertz (before the season when he still had value), Hunter Henry, Gronk (after bidding big to get him on waivers), Kyle Allen (when he was starting), Andy Dalton (when he was starting), and some others, and acquired DK Metcalf (before he really broke out), two firsts (2021 & 2022), Marquise Brown, Blake Jarwin (injured), OJ Howard (injured), and some others. One little trade was giving James White for Tarik Cohen (while Cohen was injured). I had Matt Stafford, TY Hilton, Robby Anderson, Evan Engram, and Robert Tonyan on my roster and wasn't able to move them despite trying (my clearest mistake was turning down someone who offered a 2nd for HIlton near the start of the season - then his value cratered). So wasn't as thorough a rebuild as it could have been - I definitely could've tried harder to trade those guys. Drafted Pitts, Chase, and Waddle this year.

I think that team has a chance to compete this year, with a lot of uncertainty depending on how some of the young guys do, and should be even better next year.

Andy Dufresne said:

I don't really mind trading away future picks if I think it gets me a good player this year. I figure it is going to take a year or two for most players to mature, so if I can do that all at once I will so that the whole team matures at roughly the same time. I do this knowing that my next year's first might lead to a higher pick for my trade partner, but I get to accelerate the use and maturity of a player by a year.

Random thoughts. Hope some of that makes sense.

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Definitely does, and I agree. Before getting  Edmonds, I had a legit shot at Zeke for a couple of those future 1sts & Samuel. Offer was on the table & at the 11th hour, dude backed off & traded me Chase Edmonds for significantly less. 

If he'd accepted that deal, I once again would be devoid of 2023 1st rounders & a 2022 2nd, but to get a 25 year old I think has dropped in value beyond what his actual value is. Maybe I dodged a bullet, maybe I missed out on a legit centerpiece player for my rebuilding team. Only time will tell because it didn't get done. 

But at the same time, I'm ok that we backed off because it's more fun to have draft picks during the draft. 

Adam Harstad rebuilt one of his dynasty teams over the last year and has been documenting his process on his blog: part 1, part 2, part 3.

ZWK said:

Adam Harstad rebuilt one of his dynasty teams over the last year and has been documenting his process on his blog: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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ooh, I'll check that out, thanks! 

FFPC

Any thoughts or ideas on moves I should make? Am I a win now team? Am I set up for future success? I inherited a team with basically zero draft picks this year. I traded some future picks to move up in our rookie draft to get Elijah at 1.12 and also made a trade to get Julio for a year or 2 of stability at WR as I had no WRs  

Lamar / Z Wilson 

Chubb / Mixon / Gaskin / Drake / Fournette/ D Henderson / L Rountree/ 

Julio/ Golladay / DJ Moore / E Moore/ G Davis / J Palmer 

Waller / L Thomas / J Smith 

Blankenship 

New Orleans 

Hot Sauce Guy said:

Anyone else making dramatic changes to a dynasty team this year while trying to stay competitive?

This was my 1st & I feel like it went well. As challenging as it’s been so far (I may not be done) overall I think it was worth the effort, if a little risky. But I knew I wasn’t gonna win it all with what I had. It was kind of a “come to Jesus” moment of reflection for a team I really liked. 

I’d be interested in seeing your rebuilding efforts.

• trades & picks you made this offseason (including trading up or down in the draft)

• before/after of your team’s starting lineup

• team depth after rebuild. 

• your mentality approaching the rebuild: did you have a plan going in or did you wing it as you went along? 

• how you feel as a result. Psyched? Regrets? 
 

go! 

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I draft all my 1st year dynasty leagues as redrafts. I draft WHOEVER gives me the best chance to win year 1.

If it takes me 1 year or 4 years to win a ring, who cares? Anyway, the trick to this is to have multiple dynasty teams going at once.

I'm 2 teams deep and lost the championship year 1 in one league and came in 3rd year 1 in the other.

Shaq90 said:

I draft all my 1st year dynasty leagues as redrafts. I draft WHOEVER gives me the best chance to win year 1.

If it takes me 1 year or 4 years to win a ring, who cares? Anyway, the trick to this is to have multiple dynasty teams going at once.

I'm 2 teams deep and lost the championship year 1 in one league and came in 3rd year 1 in the other.

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How long have you been playing dynasty?  I am curious how these types of teams look in years 2-5

tangfoot said:

How long have you been playing dynasty?  I am curious how these types of teams look in years 2-5

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I have seen this strategy in action. Of course every league is different but many times these teams become abandoned by their original owner in year 3 or after when the bill comes due.

Some owners are very good at trading though and can work this strategy perpetually because of that.

eta There is something to be said for having the highest valued assets at the beginning. That puts you in a position to deal from strength while those players are ranked highly. But you must keep it moving if you do that.

I’ve taken over 2 orphans over the years that needed work. 
 

Team 1 had some assets, I made some good trades and 2nd or 3rd year in got the last wildcard spot and ran the table for a championship, albeit a lucky run. I then blew it up because my team was middling and I was playing with house money. 
Everyone was in love with the 2018 draft and 2019 was less promising. I’m sure if you look back in the threads you’ll see that mentality. I sold assets for 2019 picks. I now have aj brown, terry mclaurin, DK metcalf, hockenson. I also have Harry but let’s not talk about that. Not sure I’d call myself a contender but I feel like I can make the playoffs this year and the window is opening.

Team 2 started with a bunch of garbage and mike evans. I can’t even recount the moves I made- Eddie lacy was my best rb, I remember drafting Corey Coleman. But I eventually turned into a strong team with mahomes/cmc/Hopkins/Waller among others. I took 2nd two years ago, made the playoffs but missed cmc last year. 
 

Ive made some bad trades and some good trades, but I make a lot of moves. You never know how they’ll work out. Look back at through the dynasty trade thread a couple years, you’ll find a lot of trades that were considered great at the time ended up going the other direction, by a lot. Always look for that throw in asset that won’t break a trade. Try to get a core group with some longevity and then fill in the blanks. When you’re rebuilding, be ready early in the season to make an offer when another team suffers an injury, I think that is important. A contender won’t want to lose a week or two waiting for something to happen and will give up future assets to keep their team competitive. You can also look for a discount on a guy who is out for the year. 

Hot Sauce Guy said:

I considered that strategy. It seems like there would be smaller windows of competitive FF & longer stretches of rebuilding that way. 

Is that your experience? Or are you able to blow it all up & rebuild to a competitive level fairly quickly? 

Have you won your LCG using this strategy? 

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I started 1-4 last year. Started trading away assets for future firsts as well as players who were injured who I know I could get at a significant discount (Dak, Barkley). I'm one of the favorites this year, if not the favorite (not getting ahead of myself as we know anything can happen).

Great thread.  Really like reading all of the various strategies.  As several staffers here like to say, any strategy can work if well executed.  
 

I’m feeling a little inspired by HotSauceGuy’s competitive rebuild and am having my own come to Jesus in my own SF TE Premium PPR league.  I have a fairly strong team, playoffs last year and likely again I’d say.  However, my glaring weakness is at QB (and WR3)  
 

Stry 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1Flex, 1SFlex. 

QB-Ryan, Goff, Fitzpatrick, Heineke

RB-Cook, Swift, Robinson, James White, Mattison

WR-Tyreek Hill, AJ Brown, Rondale Moore, Marvin Jones, Crowder, Mooney, Amari Rodgers

TE-Pitts, Fant, Trautman, Parham, Albert O, Granson

I’m considering an offer to the Lance owner (also has Mahomes and Lawrence, Brady).

Considering this:

give Cook, Fant, Mattison

get Lance, Antonio Gibson, JD McKissic 

He has Kittle and not much else at TE and k ow he wanted Pitts when I drafted him so think he is after TE.  
 

I hate to give up Cook but like the fact it helps me not deal a QB to get a QB.

I’d appreciate anyone’s thoughts here on whether or not you would consider a deal like this or stand pat and go for it this year.

In a different league I did a full tear-down a couple years ago and almost gave up after I felt I cut too deep at the start.  Plus that league was getting a little stale but 4 new owners came in all at once, some of whom I’ve played with in other leagues for years and that new life was enough to keep me around.

Dealt away: 

Hopkins, David Johnson, DJ Moore, Tyler Lockett, Jared Cook, Derek Carr, James White, Jonny Smith

Got only Kittle in trade as a player who I dealt for Hunter Henry and Diontae Johnson, all other players were selected with picks for the players above : 

Lamb, Jeudy, Chase, Pitts, Elijah Moore, , Michael Carter, Lance, Burrow, Van Jefferson, Cephus.  

My RB’s still suck but I love how this team came together and really I guess as soon as 2022 I should be a playoff team so it wasn’t all that long but two years of losing hurts when you’ve never done it before.

I’d appreciate anyone’s thoughts here on whether or not you would consider a deal like this or stand pat and go for it this year.

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JMO, but I’d like to see you get a better 2nd RB back than McKissic, and I’m not sure why you’d have to add Fant. The best player in that deal is Cook.
 

Is this a SF league? 

You could likely do Cook for Lance/Gibson, but I actually don’t think you need an overhaul this year.  Maybe find a better trade partner next offseason if you still want to rebuild.

You’ve got a lot of solid pieces so being a little weak at QB isn’t gonna kill you.

If I’m dealing Cook, I’d want a more established QB in return. He’s one of the true elite players, you should get elite talent back.