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DeSantis wants to register how you think (1 Viewer)

Where is he wrong?

"It used to be thought that a university campus was a place where you'd be exposed to a lot of different ideas," DeSantis said, justifying the legislation. "Unfortunately, now the norm is, these are more intellectually repressive environments. You have orthodoxies that are promoted, and other viewpoints are shunned or even suppressed."

 
Philo Beddoe said:
Where is he wrong?

"It used to be thought that a university campus was a place where you'd be exposed to a lot of different ideas," DeSantis said, justifying the legislation. "Unfortunately, now the norm is, these are more intellectually repressive environments. You have orthodoxies that are promoted, and other viewpoints are shunned or even suppressed."
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Uhhhh...you have to register what you think.  That's what's wrong.

 
Philo Beddoe said:
Where is he wrong?

"It used to be thought that a university campus was a place where you'd be exposed to a lot of different ideas," DeSantis said, justifying the legislation. "Unfortunately, now the norm is, these are more intellectually repressive environments. You have orthodoxies that are promoted, and other viewpoints are shunned or even suppressed."
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Do you have examples?

From this article:https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/06/22/state-university-faculty-students-to-be-surveyed-on-beliefs/

No details offered

The governor did not name specific state universities or colleges with this problem. He was broad in his accusations about the higher education system and used vague anecdotes to justify the need for such a survey.

For instance, the governor said he “knows a lot of parents” who are worried that their children will be “indoctrinated” when they go off to college, and that universities are promoting “orthodoxies.” But he did not offer specifics on those claims.
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I read a NY Post article on this.  It says:

According to the bill, a survey adopted by the State Board of Education or the Board of Governors of the State University System will be used to evaluate freedoms related to speech on college and university campuses.
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I'm not even sure what that means.  I get called by pollsters all the time.  I hang up on them.  This doesn't sound like having to "register" my political beliefs.  Sounds like research.  Without more details on exactly what form it's going to take and how coercive it is this sounds like nothing. 

 
-fish- said:
https://www.rawstory.com/florida-colleges-and-universities/

Gov. Ron DeSantis signed legislation requiring students, faculty and staff at Florida's public universities and colleges to register their political views with the state as a way to encourage "intellectual diversity."

I'm sure this has a legitimate purpose and doesn't infringe on any personal freedoms.  
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This could be a fun thought experiment.

Who would lie more? Liberals about being liberal or conservatives about being conservative?

 
The FL Legislature also considered cutting financial aid for degrees that don’t lead to jobs. It didn’t pass, but more of the same type of oversight imo. Link

 
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Philo Beddoe said:
First, I don’t agree with this legislation but, how is this different from asking an applicants religious affiliation? 
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for one, that isn't registered with the state, nor are staff or faculty required to register religious affiliation as part of their employment 

 
I think there are smart conservative professors on most college campuses, even though yeah they're definitely outnumbered.

But I'd be surprised to find hardly any college professors that are fans of the current Trump-focused Republican Party.  I agree that view is largely shunned in academia.  Whether that's a bad thing is worthy for discussion.

 
timschochet said:
If Trump doesn’t run he’s their top choice. It’s truly embarrassing. 
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DeSantis is younger, more book smart and more strategic than Trump. If he wins the nomination, he'll be a formidable opponent. It's easy to get good marks when you're the governor of a growing state like Florida. And most will say he did a better job managing the pandemic than Newsome and others Dem governors. He and many Republicans are worried about liberal indoctrination when their kids go away to school.  My daughter who went to FSU said some of the wildest students were those who went to religious K-12 schools in North Florida and rebelled against the indoctrination and hypocrisy they saw growing up in an Evangelical world. I hope that makes the survey.

Surveys are great, but should big government be in control, other than for census and commerce purposes? DeSantis also signed legislation to exert more control over local budgets, an attempt to stop defending the police. His 2021 agenda was a smashing success, including bonuses and increased pay for teachers. 

 
SoBeDad said:
His 2021 agenda was a smashing success, including bonuses and increased pay for teachers. 
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I play pickleball with a bunch of teachers on the weekends. High school geometry, college physics, community college networking teachers. They all hate DeSantis. They told me how they mentored bonus baby new teachers who eventually just quit after collectiing their bonuses. Then they were just given a measely $1000 bonus for being a teacher. After risking their lives in the classroom for the last year with students with no regard for covid safety. 

HIs smashing success is not really smashing...

 
Florida has been the Golden Child in the past year, you can try and pick apart or badmouth a guy you clearly are jealous of but I think most people can see right thru it. Guy pretty much saved Florida and took the Left kicking and screaming with him into prosperity and people are killing themselves to get into this State right now, I don't know how many stories and stories we heard down here about wild things happening in other parts of the country. 

Scoreboard

 
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Sand said:
Only $1,000.  Sounds pretty damn entitled to me.
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I'm not even sure what you mean by that. The teachers I know feel like they were kicked in the coconuts. Working to mentor new teachers who were the true benefactors of the gov's brilliance bonus only to just quit. And then later down the road they found out that there was a $1000 bonus for all teachers left them feeling quite shorted. Especially when I had to inform them they were getting a bonus because I followed the news and the golden boy's press release. Their public school system internal ER had not even informed them! And they're still waiting for the bonus grand!!!!!

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Florida has been the Golden Child in the past year, you can try and pick apart or badmouth a guy you clearly are jealous of but I think most people can see right thru it. Guy pretty much saved Florida and took the Left kicking and screaming with him into prosperity and people are killing themselves to get into this State right now, I don't know how many stories and stories we heard down here about wild things happening in other parts of the country. 

Scoreboard
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I didnt realize crossing the Florida state line was so dangerous.  I guess I will stay where Im at then.  

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Florida has been the Golden Child in the past year, you can try and pick apart or badmouth a guy you clearly are jealous of but I think most people can see right thru it. Guy pretty much saved Florida and took the Left kicking and screaming with him into prosperity and people are killing themselves to get into this State right now, I don't know how many stories and stories we heard down here about wild things happening in other parts of the country. 

Scoreboard
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Yep, you pretty much nailed it. Good post.  

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Florida has been the Golden Child in the past year, you can try and pick apart or badmouth a guy you clearly are jealous of but I think most people can see right thru it. Guy pretty much saved Florida and took the Left kicking and screaming with him into prosperity and people are killing themselves to get into this State right now, I don't know how many stories and stories we heard down here about wild things happening in other parts of the country. 

Scoreboard
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:goodposting: . I see through it. He nailed everything covid while the blue states surrendered from the start with a bunch of them still hiding in their houses with masks on. 

 
-fish- said:
DeSantis is threatening budget cuts to universities based on whether they are "indoctrinating" students, which apparently means teaching views to which he is opposed.

I imagine that this would also jeopardize tenure for professors who demonstrate wrongthink.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/06/22/state-university-faculty-students-to-be-surveyed-on-beliefs/
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By far the most discriminated people in college admissions are rural white conservatives.  You would find a unicorn before you found one walking around the campus of Harvard.  The left poo-poos this type of discrimination and openly mocks the idea, but it is a known fact.  

 
jon_mx said:
By far the most discriminated people in college admissions are rural white conservatives.  You would find a unicorn before you found one walking around the campus of Harvard.  The left poo-poos this type of discrimination and openly mocks the idea, but it is a known fact.  
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I’d be interested in hearing more about the rural and conservative elements. My son recently applied to 10 colleges and none of them asked his political affiliation or beliefs. He does live in a rural county, though in the Notthern part of it, which is really a suburb of a large city. I can certainly see structural issues in which applicants from rural counties may be disadvantaged. For example, course load rigor is a factor in admissions and rural high schools may not offer the same number of AP and other honors courses as their suburban or urban counterparts. 

 
jon_mx said:
By far the most discriminated people in college admissions are rural white conservatives.  You would find a unicorn before you found one walking around the campus of Harvard.  The left poo-poos this type of discrimination and openly mocks the idea, but it is a known fact.  
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When I was applying for college, I didn't include political affiliation on any of my applications.  Has that changed?

Beyond that, your comment really has nothing to do with the legislation or thread topic.  Admissions isn't part of the equation.  The issue is whether government should be forcibly requiring students and faculty to provide their political affiliations.

 
Rich Conway said:
When I was applying for college, I didn't include political affiliation on any of my applications.  Has that changed?

Beyond that, your comment really has nothing to do with the legislation or thread topic.  Admissions isn't part of the equation.  The issue is whether government should be forcibly requiring students and faculty to provide their political affiliations.
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Having diversity starts with admissions.  

 
bigbottom said:
I’d be interested in hearing more about the rural and conservative elements. My son recently applied to 10 colleges and none of them asked his political affiliation or beliefs. He does live in a rural county, though in the Notthern part of it, which is really a suburb of a large city. I can certainly see structural issues in which applicants from rural counties may be disadvantaged. For example, course load rigor is a factor in admissions and rural high schools may not offer the same number of AP and other honors courses as their suburban or urban counterparts. 
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https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/rural-poor-whites-underrepresented-at-elite-colleges/

Last year, two Princeton sociologists, Thomas Espenshade and Alexandria Walton Radford, published a book-length study of admissions and affirmative action at eight highly selective colleges and universities. Unsurprisingly, they found that the admissions process seemed to favor black and Hispanic applicants, while whites and Asians needed higher grades and SAT scores to get in. But what was striking, as Russell K. Nieli pointed out on the conservative website Minding the Campus, was which whites were most disadvantaged by the process: the downscale, the rural and the working-class.

This was particularly pronounced among the private colleges in the study. For minority applicants, the lower a family’s socioeconomic position, the more likely the student was to be admitted. For whites, though, it was the reverse. An upper-middle-class white applicant was three times more likely to be admitted than a lower-class white with similar qualifications.

 
jon_mx said:
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/rural-poor-whites-underrepresented-at-elite-colleges/

Last year, two Princeton sociologists, Thomas Espenshade and Alexandria Walton Radford, published a book-length study of admissions and affirmative action at eight highly selective colleges and universities. Unsurprisingly, they found that the admissions process seemed to favor black and Hispanic applicants, while whites and Asians needed higher grades and SAT scores to get in. But what was striking, as Russell K. Nieli pointed out on the conservative website Minding the Campus, was which whites were most disadvantaged by the process: the downscale, the rural and the working-class.

This was particularly pronounced among the private colleges in the study. For minority applicants, the lower a family’s socioeconomic position, the more likely the student was to be admitted. For whites, though, it was the reverse. An upper-middle-class white applicant was three times more likely to be admitted than a lower-class white with similar qualifications.
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Thanks for the link. Interesting read. Especially this part:

This may be a money-saving tactic. Espenshade and Radford suggest that these institutions, conscious of their mandate to be multiethnic, may reserve their financial aid dollars “for students who will help them look good on their numbers of minority students,” leaving little room to admit financially strapped whites.

But cultural biases seem to be at work as well. Nieli highlights one of the study’s more remarkable findings: While most extracurricular activities increase your odds of admission to an elite school, holding a leadership role or winning awards in organizations like high school ROTC, 4-H clubs and Future Farmers of America actually works against your chances. Consciously or unconsciously, the gatekeepers of elite education seem to incline against candidates who seem too stereotypically rural or right-wing or “Red America.”

 
I'm not sure I know enough about the law to comment on it just yet.  What is particularly interesting to me is all the "small government" types cheering on the continued sprawl of government reach.  I'm beginning to think "small government" people are simply full of #### :lol:  

 
The Commish said:
I'm not sure I know enough about the law to comment on it just yet.  What is particularly interesting to me is all the "small government" types cheering on the continued sprawl of government reach.  I'm beginning to think "small government" people are simply full of #### :lol:  
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Can you give some examples of these "small government" types cheering on the sprawl of government reach that lead to accuse them of being of full of poo?

 
I just read the bill. The raw story is fake news. It’s not a registration, the question will not be on any admissions application. It is an anonymous survey and it is voluntary.  Most of the bill is about free speech protections 🤷‍♂️

 
Not sure why we need to collect anything, including race, sex, religion.  But if we do collect those, why not political affiliation?

 
Hypocrisy of some on the Right. They want people to be individuals.....but only certain types of individuals. They do the EXACT same thing they accuse the Left of.  

 
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