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Can We Civilly Discuss Thoughts On Vaccination? A Poll.


Where would you land among these descriptions?  

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It's probably too much to ask but I'd like to do a poll here. I'm more interested in the poll votes than the discussion that I'm guessing will go off the rails quickly. But I'll try.

Where would you land among the answers in the poll?

Please:

All votes are anonymous.

Focus on trying to clarify and understand, not criticize people who voted differently than you. 

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Just now, Max Power said:

If you dont mind me tagging on, I'm curious to know how people feel about their kids getting it and what age group they are in. 

Yes. Maybe we do another poll about kids. 

But for this one, wanted to keep it simple. 

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What do you mean by vaccinated but some regret?  Unless you had a bad outcome why would you regret it?

I personally don't regret getting vaccinated because I did and I'm fine...but that shouldn't be confused with I got vaccinated and am still not 100% comfortable it is safe for me or everyone.  So not sure if thats what you were trying to isolate with that poll option.

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Just now, djmich said:

What do you mean by vaccinated but some regret?  Unless you had a bad outcome why would you regret it?

 

I mean exactly what it says.

I had a friend this week tell me he was vaccinated but if he could go back, he wouldn't have done it. His opinion on the vaccine had changed he said. Others might be experiencing something else. 

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10 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I mean exactly what it says.

I had a friend this week tell me he was vaccinated but if he could go back, he wouldn't have done it. His opinion on the vaccine had changed he said. Others might be experiencing something else. 

What is the basis for his regret? 

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12 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Vaccinated and never gave it much thought.  It is good most people are getting it,  but if some don't want to that is fine.  Not sure why people make a big deal about it. 

Both sides are using it as a power play - people trying to shame others into getting it,while the others want their choice.  The long-term effects are also a concern - we don’t know what they are.

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33 minutes ago, Max Power said:

If you dont mind me tagging on, I'm curious to know how people feel about their kids getting it and what age group they are in. 

My kids (16 and 13) are now both vaccinated.  Just felt it was right for us.  My son (the older child) works at a Panera so talked to him about it and his doctor about it and came to the decision together that it made sense especially working with the public around.

Daughter we had similar discussions.  She is big into dance and had a few competitions among a ton of other people so again it made sense for us.

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You're either Family of Mine or Family of Man and nothing draws that line like vax. No matter how divisive-unto-criminally-stoopit the politics got - and there are huuuuuge crevasses of that sort in my clan - we never let it cross the line, but vax has created militarized borders..

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4 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Vaccinated.  Very easy decision -- the pandemic sucked, and I'm glad I don't have to personally worry about it any more.

Yep. I got vaccinated in March and the last few months have been great. 

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50 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Vaccinated and no regret - got it as soon as I could and am good with my decision. 

Same here.  Along with my wife and kids (20 and 24). 

And I'm a conservative for the record.  I know a lot of you probably didn't know that and its probably a surprise to you. ;)

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Vaccinated and no regrets.  But if there were an option between "vaccinated and no regrets" and "vaccinated and some regrets" I'd probably choose that.  But I understand you wanted to keep it simple and there are only so many shades of gray worth mentioning in a poll.

Edited by John123
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30 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I wish we could force everyone to be vaccinated. Seriously. We can’t, and I accept that, but I wish we could. 

In the U.S., there’s a line ... somewhere ... that shouldn’t be crossed. I can’t accept people’s rights being curtailed due to refusal to vaccinate. I could accept a host of governmental and societal privileges being curtailed, though — renewal of driver’s licenses, fishing/hunting/boating licenses, admission into many types of private events, etc.

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Just now, Doug B said:

In the U.S., there’s a line ... somewhere ... that shouldn’t be crossed. I can’t accept people’s rights being curtailed due to refusal to vaccinate. I could accept a host of governmental and societal privileges being curtailed, though — renewal of driver’s licenses, fishing/hunting/boating licenses, admission into many types of private events, etc.

I get the line. But we did have a military draft. We forced young men, against their will, to fight for this country, and we did it for national security. Not sure there’s much of a difference here. 

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2 minutes ago, Doug B said:

In the U.S., there’s a line ... somewhere ... that shouldn’t be crossed. I can’t accept people’s rights being curtailed due to refusal to vaccinate. I could accept a host of governmental and societal privileges being curtailed, though — renewal of driver’s licenses, fishing/hunting/boating licenses, admission into many types of private events, etc.

Don't take the bait, where tim tries to make a thread all about him and his extreme opinion once again (and I realize my post is helping towards to that end). 

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I get the line. But we did have a military draft. We forced young men, against their will, to fight for this country, and we did it for national security. Not sure there’s much of a difference here. 

You think everyone in this country should be forced to take the vaccine no questions asked no exceptions?

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3 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Don't take the bait, where tim tries to make a thread all about him and his extreme opinion once again (and I realize my post is helping towards to that end). 

Lol don’t worry. I’m busy this morning so no more posts on the subject. 
However I have to object to your characterization: my opinions on any issue are genuine and I do offer them to generate discussion, but not to make the thread “all about me.” 

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Just now, timschochet said:

Medical exceptions only. 

Who determines medical exceptions for every individual?  I assume you’ll answer their doctor but if not Curious who you say.  I know plenty of doctors that are against the covid vaccine.  
 

If someone can’t get a medical exception and develops health issues after the vaccine, who is responsible?  How are they compensated?

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Who determines medical exceptions for every individual?  I assume you’ll answer their doctor but if not Curious who you say.  I know plenty of doctors that are against the covid vaccine.  
 

If someone can’t get a medical exception and develops health issues after the vaccine, who is responsible?  How are they compensated?

Your questions are legitimate and good ones. I’ll think about my answers and get back to you. 

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Family is vaccinated (not my 6 yr old of course) and feel great about it.  I work in a very public facing job and it’s a comfort not having to be worried.  I was in the first-ish group of vaccinations and since my second shot haven’t given COVID a second thought.  That alone is huge. 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I get the line. But we did have a military draft. We forced young men, against their will, to fight for this country, and we did it for national security. Not sure there’s much of a difference here. 

I'd say that's debatable, at best. 

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I gave it very little thought. I followed my doctor’s counsel, as I do on all things health related, for better or worse. If he had advised against it, I probably wouldn’t have gotten it. My thought is that if I’m not going to trust my doctor on things relating to my health, I should find a different doctor.

 

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Vaccinated and grateful as hell.  I was high risk as the last two respiratory illnesses I had became serious and I was rushed to the hospital both times.  In the second case I had a bad case of pneumonia and was hospitalized for 5 days.  It was touch and go there for a while.  It kept getting worse to the point where they were just about ready to put me on a ventilator.  They also had me fill out a living will and that’s when it became real.  Nothing worse than not being able to breathe - terrifying is the only word to describe it.  

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Got it as soon as was available to me.

Don’t relate to the hesitancy to get it but beyond the strain you may put on the system and potential for some variant to take root if you don’t want, you want to deal with getting sick, not my problem. Just don’t talk to me about it. 

Edited by The General
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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Vaccinated.  Very easy decision -- the pandemic sucked, and I'm glad I don't have to personally worry about it any more.

This had been my position on it. 

Several friends yesterday talking about this though with the NC State Baseball Team.

https://twitter.com/aaronfitt/status/1408689216964501506?s=21

Quote

According to sources, 2 unvaccinated NC State players tested positive for COVID-19 this week, prompting NCAA to test entire roster, including vaccinated players. 4 more positive tests came back, all from vaccinated individuals—who were in the dugout today:

I don't know any more than that but it was a hot topic in my text group yesterday. 

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1 hour ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Who determines medical exceptions for every individual?  I assume you’ll answer their doctor but if not Curious who you say.  I know plenty of doctors that are against the covid vaccine.  
 

If someone can’t get a medical exception and develops health issues after the vaccine, who is responsible?  How are they compensated?

1. Doctors. But it has to be specific to the patient, not a general concern about the vaccine. 
2. The government. Someone can sue them. The price of that is, IMO, worth it if we can get the vast majority vaccinated. 

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6 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

via Twitter:

According to sources, 2 unvaccinated NC State players tested positive for COVID-19 this week, prompting NCAA to test entire roster, including vaccinated players. 4 more positive tests came back, all from vaccinated individuals—who were in the dugout today:

People commonly misinterpret this: The vaccine doesn't guarantee that a person will not harbor a COVID infection. What it very nearly guarantees is two-fold: (a) a vaccinated person's risk of infection is dramatically lowered [though not to zero] and (b) any vaccinated person's COVID infection will be minimal, almost certainly low-symptom/asymptomatic, and will be fought off quickly.

Risk of infection, however, is situational -- not absolute. If you've been vaccinated, and you go through sustained contact/close proximity to an unvaccinated, infected person ... at some point, your number will be up. That's a big reason vaccination is for society as much (or more than) for the individual. If a magic genie could simultaneously vaccinate every human at once, COVID would essentially die out due to the accumulation of all those 90+% chances working in concert.

Edited by Doug B
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8 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

This had been my position on it. 

Several friends yesterday talking about this though with the NC State Baseball Team.

https://twitter.com/aaronfitt/status/1408689216964501506?s=21

I don't know any more than that but it was a hot topic in my text group yesterday. 

What was being discussed around this?

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1 minute ago, The General said:

What was being discussed around this?

What I posted. That 4 vaccinated players tested positive. And maybe I should not be so sure I don't have to worry now that I'm vaccinated. 

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Of all the categories we can break folks in to I’m most interested in knowing who hasn’t gotten it when given the chance and then got Covid later.  It’s easy to say you don’t regret not getting the vaccine if you’ve not gotten Covid.

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7 minutes ago, Doug B said:

People commonly misinterpret this: The vaccine doesn't guarantee that a person will not harbor a COVID infection. What it very nearly guarantees is two-fold: (a) a vaccinated person's risk of infection is dramatically lowered [though not to zero] and (b) any vaccinated person's COVID infection will be minimal, almost certainly low-symptom/asymptomatic, and will be fought off quickly.

Risk of infection, however, is situational -- not absolute. If you've been vaccinated, and you go through sustained contact/close proximity to an unvaccinated, infected person ... at some point, your number will be up. That's a big reason vaccination is for society as much (or more than) for the individual. If a magic genie could simultaneously vaccinate every human at once, COVID would essentially die out due to the accumulation of all those 90+% chances working in concert.

Understood. What is a good link for that? 

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

What I posted. That 4 vaccinated players tested positive. And maybe I should not be so sure I don't have to worry now that I'm vaccinated. 

Gotcha. Upthread @Doug Bcovered this well, at least my attitude towards the benefit of these vaccinations. 

Additionally, I believe most of these athletes we hear about are only knowing they are positive due to very frequent testing.

The numbers showing things like less than 1% of people being hospitalized / deaths at this point are vaxed are something to point towards as evidence that getting vaxed is working. 

We got super lucky.

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10 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Understood. What is a good link for that? 

That information comes from the synthesis of information from many sources and over many months. However, this article is a good Cliffs Notes on the topic of infection risks after vaccination. Note well the references to "viral load" about a third of the way down:

Getting a Pfizer or Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine Can Drop Your Risk for Infection by 91% (Healthline, 6/8/2021)


Dry CDC links for the building-block information:

Science Brief: COVID-19 Vaccines and Vaccination (5/27/2021)

Benefits of Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine (6/15/2021)

Frequently Asked Questions about COVID-19 Vaccination (updated 6/15/2021)

Edited by Doug B
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15 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

What I posted. That 4 vaccinated players tested positive. And maybe I should not be so sure I don't have to worry now that I'm vaccinated. 

Oh boy.  Maybe I should start wearing that damn mask again.

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That's unfortunate. Surely there's a clear source where this information is front and center. Me explaining to people, "A guy on a message board named DougB who I know nothing about came up with this synthesis of information from many sources and over many months. But hit this link and scroll down and it sort of talks about it. ;) 

I wish the information you wrote was easily available. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ekbeats said:

Oh boy.  Maybe I should start wearing that damn mask again.

That's what they're telling me. Actually it's more the "vaccinations? Mmmmmmm... " stuff. 

Edited by Joe Bryant
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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

That's what they're telling me. Actually it's more the "vaccinations? Mmmmmmm... " stuff. 

My understanding is that if you’re vaccinated you can still get COVID- it’s just much more unlikely, and it’s EXTREMELY unlikely that you will suffer serious symptoms (or actually any?) 

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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:
2 hours ago, ekbeats said:

Oh boy.  Maybe I should start wearing that damn mask again.

That's what they're telling me. Actually it's more the "vaccinations? Mmmmmmm... " stuff.  

The information about vaccination lowering COVID symptom severity is plainspoken and readily accessible (CDC links above). Don't let them use "vaccinated people still get infected!" as a gotcha.

Those four NC State players that were vaccinated and still infected? If I'm following that article correctly ... those four players were never sickened by COVID. They just happened to have a nascent asymptomatic COVID infection in their body that they'd have never known about without the entire team being incidentally tested.

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