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Can We Civilly Discuss Thoughts On Vaccination? A Poll. (2 Viewers)

Where would you land among these descriptions?

  • Vaccinated and no regret

    Votes: 292 82.5%
  • Vaccinated but some regret

    Votes: 18 5.1%
  • Not Vaccinated and don't plan to

    Votes: 32 9.0%
  • Not Vaccinated but considering it

    Votes: 12 3.4%

  • Total voters
    354
You want polling data?  We can show that.

You want factual reports from reputable sources?  We can show that.

You want anecdotes?  We can sure as hell provide that.

No matter where you go, not matter who you frame it, getting vaccinated is the safest best thing for the general population to do.  Not getting the vaccine is unnecessarily reckless for anyone who hasn't had the virus already.  Millions of people are continuing to ignorantly roll the dice on their health because of an irrational fear of some phantom, unknown long term effects when the virus is literally killing, maiming and ruining people's lives and, oh yeah, HAS LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS AS WELL!!!!

I'm so sick of people ignoring that fact.  You are scared of long term side effects of the vaccine?  Well let's list the KNOWN long term side effects of the virus:  Complications, including long-term damage to the lungs, heart, kidneys, brain and other organs, is possible after a severe case of COVID-19.    

 
You want polling data?  We can show that.

You want factual reports from reputable sources?  We can show that.

You want anecdotes?  We can sure as hell provide that.

No matter where you go, not matter who you frame it, getting vaccinated is the safest best thing for the general population to do.  Not getting the vaccine is unnecessarily reckless for anyone who hasn't had the virus already.  Millions of people are continuing to ignorantly roll the dice on their health because of an irrational fear of some phantom, unknown long term effects when the virus is literally killing, maiming and ruining people's lives and, oh yeah, HAS LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS AS WELL!!!!

I'm so sick of people ignoring that fact.  You are scared of long term side effects of the vaccine?  Well let's list the KNOWN long term side effects of the virus:  Complications, including long-term damage to the lungs, heart, kidneys, brain and other organs, is possible after a severe case of COVID-19.    
As many as 20% of Americans do not believe in vaccines as a matter of principle or faith.  I don't disagree it appears to go against the current science, but, you of all people don't have a stick to shake on that front.

 
13 minutes ago, Jayrod said:
You want polling data?  We can show that.

You want factual reports from reputable sources?  We can show that.

You want anecdotes?  We can sure as hell provide that.

No matter where you go, not matter who you frame it, getting vaccinated is the safest best thing for the general population to do.  Not getting the vaccine is unnecessarily reckless for anyone who hasn't had the virus already.  Millions of people are continuing to ignorantly roll the dice on their health because of an irrational fear of some phantom, unknown long term effects when the virus is literally killing, maiming and ruining people's lives and, oh yeah, HAS LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS AS WELL!!!!

I'm so sick of people ignoring that fact.  You are scared of long term side effects of the vaccine?  Well let's list the KNOWN long term side effects of the virus:  Complications, including long-term damage to the lungs, heart, kidneys, brain and other organs, is possible after a severe case of COVID-19.    
Expand  
As many as 20% of Americans do not believe in vaccines as a matter of principle or faith.  I don't disagree it appears to go against the current science, but, you of all people don't have a stick to shake on that front.


Are these representative of the polio vaccine?

 
Dunno.  If you google percentage of population that are anti-vaccine you get anywhere from 9% to 22% that I saw.
Cool.  Dont get the vaccines, dont send your kids to school.  There may be other private business restrictions also.  You do you. :banned:

 
Cool.  Dont get the vaccines, dont send your kids to school.  There may be other private business restrictions also.  You do you. :banned:
I'm fine with them living in their own bubble and accepting the consequences of not being vaccinated, but that isn't what's happening.  These ant-vaxxers are actively spreading their misinformation and theorizing to others through social media, which has resulted in extreme vaccine hesitancy.  They also expect their kids to get educated by schools, expect to work without restriction, want to eat and drink wherever they want, and are happy to make a scene and go all Karen when confronted. They are dragging us all down with their selfish stupidity.   

 
As many as 20% of Americans do not believe in vaccines as a matter of principle or faith.  I don't disagree it appears to go against the current science, but, you of all people don't have a stick to shake on that front.
LOL

You are so smart and cool.  Can we be friends?

ETA:  So much for "civilly discuss"

 
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LOL

You are so smart and cool.  Can we be friends?

ETA:  So much for "civilly discuss"
Just pointing out the hypocrisy when I see it.  Anti-vaxxers literally don't believe in giving their kids vaccines.  I know it sounds crazy, but, I know a few of these people.  It's eerily similar to religion, sometimes is part of their religion.  

 
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You want polling data?  We can show that.

You want factual reports from reputable sources?  We can show that.

You want anecdotes?  We can sure as hell provide that.

No matter where you go, not matter who you frame it, getting vaccinated is the safest best thing for the general population to do.  Not getting the vaccine is unnecessarily reckless for anyone who hasn't had the virus already.  Millions of people are continuing to ignorantly roll the dice on their health because of an irrational fear of some phantom, unknown long term effects when the virus is literally killing, maiming and ruining people's lives and, oh yeah, HAS LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS AS WELL!!!!


Let me put this in a different perspective for you Jayrod. I have nothing against you personally. But I believe there's another way to look at this situation.

What is the core demographic of regular posters on the FBG forums?  Certainly it's not exhaustive, but I'd wager Caucasian, liberal, college educated, male, above average earning power, mid 40s to mid 50s, maybe some previous pathway towards organized sports in their youth.

Is that everyone? Of course not, but I suspect it's a range of where some of the tone deafness comes from in real life.

Imagine someone is a minority and previously lived in another country where the government pulled no punches in exploiting them and culling their freedoms. Raping their daughters, executing their school teachers, crushing free speech and freedom to exercise religion and few to none methods to gain upward mobility. They come to this country and they have no marketable job skills, they don't speak English very well and they are past the age where a formal education will likely help them. They live in poor neighborhoods where there is likely high crime and mediocre to horrible schools. They are prime targets for criminals because the cops aren't really coming to save that neighborhood. They do what they can so their kids can get an education and some opportunity.

Some start a small business. It's the American Dream. Then they are told they have to lock down if they live in a Blue stronghold. It's not like they are suddenly immune  to things like rent and utilities and taxes and the rest, but they are told to lock down. Then the rioters and looters come. They call the police and no one comes to help them. They see clearly that the same group of politicians are encouraging the violence and bailing out the looters and rioters. They buy a gun like many of the 40 million American civilians who bought firearms in 2020 because they know no one is going to come save them. No one is going to help them. Some might have poor insurance or no insurance at all for their businesses. These are everyday people, they don't have "FBG Money", almost all of them didn't get a chance to go to college, they are just trying to get by and protect their children and build some kind of real legacy for themselves.

If these people we are talking about are black Americans, then they've been told over and over and over that the "system" hates them for being black and the police are coming to execute them and their children.  And that the government is lying to them and has treated them like cattle for untold generations. What do you think Stacey Abrams was telling these black Americans in Georgia as she was ballot harvesting and ballot chasing at a record pace?

If these people we are talking about are Latino/Hispanic, they watched their own people get herded like feral animals into cages and watched their own people be told America will welcome them only to be told no you need to go away. They watched their own people, their own children, get gang raped by mules and criminals and Cartel members. They see the namesake for their daughter's hope, to be the next AOC, get trashed by the establishment Democrats in the current administration to no end. The message is clear - you are just good enough to clean the bathrooms for the rich smug tone deaf elitist politicians like a Gavin Newsom.

If these people we are talking about are Asian Americans, they watched their own people get attacked in the streets with close to no actual response from the current administration and government. They are "perfect minority" but who cares if they get massacred in the streets. They see all kinds of social justice screaming out in sports, in Hollywood and in the MSM, but nothing is said about the Uighurs in China. Who are being tortured, raped, forcibly sterilized, having their organs harvested and being wiped out in open genocide. But they live in a country where no one wants to talk about it since those tiny Uighur children in concentration camps are assembling IPhones while a gun is being shoved down their throats.

Take the perspective of these minorities, who are vaccine hesitant. Who see lie after lie told to them to their faces. Then the Whataboutism, the cheap deflections, the blame game and the virtue signaling that looks nothing more than condescension.

So try this - For those here who are liberal college educated Caucasian males with above average earning power in their mid 40s to mid 50s, how close are you to the reality of people who are nothing like you and are struggling check to check, hand to mouth and feel the weight of the world crushing in on them?

Do some of you realize how smug, tone deaf, elitist, myopic, condescending and cruel you sound to many of these people?

You want these people to understand the rage of many people here. Did you and others here every stop to ask yourselves if you've done your part to actually understand their perspective, what they are going through and how they might see the world around them differently than you. When you demand submission without any tolerance nor empathy and reduce actual human beings into cannon fodder, it just makes you a tyrant.

The gift of freedom has no real value to a tyrant.

Nearly all of you were born into freedom. And some of you, not all, but far too many, clearly don't actually deserve it.

 
Wait...so because Jayrod is "religions" and tony knows "religious people who are anti-vax" it's hypocritical for Jayrod to harp on anti-vax people even though he doesn't share the same beliefs the anti-vax people hold?  It's all because tony throws them all under the same umbrella of "religion"?  

Of all people, I'm not sure tony wants that to be the standard :lmao:  

 
On the race/ethnicity data from the CDC, it is inaccurate for many reasons. We now have the question on the form and it has the option of ‘prefer not to say’. At the beginning we didn’t have the question on the form and our systems weren’t even setup to submit the data. Many chains were the same. All of the vaccines during that time did not have a race assigned to them. Now that the system is setup, I’d say 9 times out of 10 when someone skips that question or chooses not to disclose, it is a member of a minority group.  

 
On the race/ethnicity data from the CDC, it is inaccurate for many reasons. We now have the question on the form and it has the option of ‘prefer not to say’. At the beginning we didn’t have the question on the form and our systems weren’t even setup to submit the data. Many chains were the same. All of the vaccines during that time did not have a race assigned to them. Now that the system is setup, I’d say 9 times out of 10 when someone skips that question or chooses not to disclose, it is a member of a minority group.  
Well thats just absurd beyond reason. 

And let me see if I get this.  They will lie to the cdc but tell the truth to a pollster.   Yeah. Thats completely logical

 
I'm fine with them living in their own bubble and accepting the consequences of not being vaccinated, but that isn't what's happening.  These ant-vaxxers are actively spreading their misinformation and theorizing to others through social media, which has resulted in extreme vaccine hesitancy.  They also expect their kids to get educated by schools, expect to work without restriction, want to eat and drink wherever they want, and are happy to make a scene and go all Karen when confronted. They are dragging us all down with their selfish stupidity.   
I would also add that they also expect to be treated with the best medical care if they do get Covid.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: JAA
Wait...so because Jayrod is "religions" and tony knows "religious people who are anti-vax" it's hypocritical for Jayrod to harp on anti-vax people even though he doesn't share the same beliefs the anti-vax people hold?  It's all because tony throws them all under the same umbrella of "religion"?  

Of all people, I'm not sure tony wants that to be the standard :lmao:  
Nooooope.  Try reading more slowly?

Just pointing out the hypocrisy when I see it.  Anti-vaxxers literally don't believe in giving their kids vaccines.  I know it sounds crazy, but, I know a few of these people.  It's eerily similar to religion, sometimes is part of their religion.  

 
And why is there a shortage of qualified staff?  Could it be because of the reason like what i just posted about in New York where the mandate has driven off so many staff that they can't staff it? (I don;'t know this is the case...asking).
Lewis County Healthcare is suspending baby deliveries because 32 workers quit because of the mandate. This is just the beginning and the first to hit the national news. We should call it the Biden Backfire. 

 
The Z Machine said:
Either these guys beat the odds or there are way too many conservative radio hosts. 


Matthew 7:15-20

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them

 
Lewis County Healthcare is suspending baby deliveries because 32 workers quit because of the mandate. This is just the beginning and the first to hit the national news. We should call it the Biden Backfire. 
This is funny.  What's funny is that you think the president is making the mandate.  Many businesses are choosing to have the mandate.

What also funny is people thinking its a bad thing to require vaccines.  Especially infectious diseases with a high death rate of about 30%.

 
GordonGekko said:
Let me put this in a different perspective for you Jayrod. I have nothing against you personally. But I believe there's another way to look at this situation.

What is the core demographic of regular posters on the FBG forums?  Certainly it's not exhaustive, but I'd wager Caucasian, liberal, college educated, male, above average earning power, mid 40s to mid 50s, maybe some previous pathway towards organized sports in their youth.

Is that everyone? Of course not, but I suspect it's a range of where some of the tone deafness comes from in real life.

Imagine someone is a minority and previously lived in another country where the government pulled no punches in exploiting them and culling their freedoms. Raping their daughters, executing their school teachers, crushing free speech and freedom to exercise religion and few to none methods to gain upward mobility. They come to this country and they have no marketable job skills, they don't speak English very well and they are past the age where a formal education will likely help them. They live in poor neighborhoods where there is likely high crime and mediocre to horrible schools. They are prime targets for criminals because the cops aren't really coming to save that neighborhood. They do what they can so their kids can get an education and some opportunity.

Some start a small business. It's the American Dream. Then they are told they have to lock down if they live in a Blue stronghold. It's not like they are suddenly immune  to things like rent and utilities and taxes and the rest, but they are told to lock down. Then the rioters and looters come. They call the police and no one comes to help them. They see clearly that the same group of politicians are encouraging the violence and bailing out the looters and rioters. They buy a gun like many of the 40 million American civilians who bought firearms in 2020 because they know no one is going to come save them. No one is going to help them. Some might have poor insurance or no insurance at all for their businesses. These are everyday people, they don't have "FBG Money", almost all of them didn't get a chance to go to college, they are just trying to get by and protect their children and build some kind of real legacy for themselves.

If these people we are talking about are black Americans, then they've been told over and over and over that the "system" hates them for being black and the police are coming to execute them and their children.  And that the government is lying to them and has treated them like cattle for untold generations. What do you think Stacey Abrams was telling these black Americans in Georgia as she was ballot harvesting and ballot chasing at a record pace?

If these people we are talking about are Latino/Hispanic, they watched their own people get herded like feral animals into cages and watched their own people be told America will welcome them only to be told no you need to go away. They watched their own people, their own children, get gang raped by mules and criminals and Cartel members. They see the namesake for their daughter's hope, to be the next AOC, get trashed by the establishment Democrats in the current administration to no end. The message is clear - you are just good enough to clean the bathrooms for the rich smug tone deaf elitist politicians like a Gavin Newsom.

If these people we are talking about are Asian Americans, they watched their own people get attacked in the streets with close to no actual response from the current administration and government. They are "perfect minority" but who cares if they get massacred in the streets. They see all kinds of social justice screaming out in sports, in Hollywood and in the MSM, but nothing is said about the Uighurs in China. Who are being tortured, raped, forcibly sterilized, having their organs harvested and being wiped out in open genocide. But they live in a country where no one wants to talk about it since those tiny Uighur children in concentration camps are assembling IPhones while a gun is being shoved down their throats.

Take the perspective of these minorities, who are vaccine hesitant. Who see lie after lie told to them to their faces. Then the Whataboutism, the cheap deflections, the blame game and the virtue signaling that looks nothing more than condescension.

So try this - For those here who are liberal college educated Caucasian males with above average earning power in their mid 40s to mid 50s, how close are you to the reality of people who are nothing like you and are struggling check to check, hand to mouth and feel the weight of the world crushing in on them?

Do some of you realize how smug, tone deaf, elitist, myopic, condescending and cruel you sound to many of these people?

You want these people to understand the rage of many people here. Did you and others here every stop to ask yourselves if you've done your part to actually understand their perspective, what they are going through and how they might see the world around them differently than you. When you demand submission without any tolerance nor empathy and reduce actual human beings into cannon fodder, it just makes you a tyrant.

The gift of freedom has no real value to a tyrant.

Nearly all of you were born into freedom. And some of you, not all, but far too many, clearly don't actually deserve it.
:lmao:

Get a load of this ####### guy.

 
This is funny.  What's funny is that you think the president is making the mandate.  Many businesses are choosing to have the mandate.

What also funny is people thinking its a bad thing to require vaccines.  Especially infectious diseases with a high death rate of about 30%.
A) Biden's mandate does not give businesses the choice.  That's why it's called a mandate.

B)  It's called unintended consequences.

 
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A) Biden's mandate does not give businesses the choice.  That's why it's called a mandate.

B)  It's called unintended consequences.
A) You avoided my point

B) Unintended consequences?  Are you saying there should never be vaccine mandates?

 
supermike80 said:
Well thats just absurd beyond reason. 

And let me see if I get this.  They will lie to the cdc but tell the truth to a pollster.   Yeah. Thats completely logical
The person choosing not to answer the question is lying to no one. 
The person filling out the form would have little reason to know why the race and the separate ethnicity question is on the form.  
No patient in this scenario is interacting in any way with the CDC.  They are just doing the tedious paperwork (or online forms) we all do whenever we see a provider (at least for the first time).

 
When someone says they (personally) need to "research the vaccine more" before they will get it - what exactly are they going to research?  And, what have they been doing for the last 6 months?

 
When someone says they (personally) need to "research the vaccine more" before they will get it - what exactly are they going to research?  And, what have they been doing for the last 6 months?
Running your own RCT takes time... especially if there are multiple vaccines and treatments to study.  It's a lot for one person to research. 

 
When someone says they (personally) need to "research the vaccine more" before they will get it - what exactly are they going to research?  And, what have they been doing for the last 6 months?
Hopefully the arm chair scientists at least buy climate change now.  Which disaster will get to them first?

 
When someone says they (personally) need to "research the vaccine more" before they will get it - what exactly are they going to research?  And, what have they been doing for the last 6 months?


DIRECT HEADLINE: David Stern asks Jim Rome, ‘Have you stopped beating your wife yet?’ in response to lottery-fixing question in radio interview

Dan Devine June 13, 2012

https://sports.yahoo.com/david-stern-asks-jim-rome-stop-beating-wife-202222756--nba.html

*****

It means whatever they want it to mean, in whatever timeline they want to engage it and the law is still currently on their side.

You can come at it from any number of angles you want, and even with an ugly set of pirouettes squeezing in as many logical fallacies as possible,   the law is still currently on their side.

Wait, did I forget to mention, if I didn't already, because sometimes I forget in my old age, that the law is still currently on their side?

 
This is funny.  What's funny is that you think the president is making the mandate.  Many businesses are choosing to have the mandate.

What also funny is people thinking its a bad thing to require vaccines.  Especially infectious diseases with a high death rate of about 30%.
HUH? Was it not Joe Biden who released his 6 points and actually said he was" giving businesses the tools they need to protect themselves by employing these mandates"?  And didn't Jen Psaki quote that very same thing the very next day? I believe that is about as clear as can be that yes, he is indeed making the mandate. 

Are you implying Covid has a 30% death rate?  If so, you need to move the decimal over a few spots to the left.

 
When someone says they (personally) need to "research the vaccine more" before they will get it - what exactly are they going to research?  And, what have they been doing for the last 6 months?
As time goes by and data/studies pile up that comment comes to mean "researching" to find sources to confirm a belief they already hold.  At least that's what appears to be the case here in the PSF.

 
This is funny.  What's funny is that you think the president is making the mandate.  Many businesses are choosing to have the mandate.

What also funny is people thinking its a bad thing to require vaccines.  Especially infectious diseases with a high death rate of about 30%.
HUH? Was it not Joe Biden who released his 6 points and actually said he was" giving businesses the tools they need to protect themselves by employing these mandates"?  And didn't Jen Psaki quote that very same thing the very next day? I believe that is about as clear as can be that yes, he is indeed making the mandate. 

Are you implying Covid has a 30% death rate?  If so, you need to move the decimal over a few spots to the left.
Who said anything about COVID?  I thought we were talking about vaccines?

When the Supreme Court Ruled a Vaccine Could Be Mandatory

There were two forms of the smallpox virus. Variola major was the severe and most common form, with a more extensive rash and higher fever. It could result in confluent smallpox, which had a high death rate of about 30%

🙂 💧

 
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The Commish said:
As time goes by and data/studies pile up that comment comes to mean "researching" to find sources to confirm a belief they already hold.  At least that's what appears to be the case here in the PSF.
I'd really like to see a side by side of vaccine outcomes vs covid outcomes by age and comorbidity.  Groupings of minor, serious, very serious, death.

What I personally can't reconcile is the vaers information where the standard blurb I see on the CDC website is that "just because these happened doesn't mean it was from the vaccine".  Thats cool, I get it, but they are not saying they didn't happen because of the vaccine either which would be the proper way to answer the question in the affirmative.  In some instances I've seen data on the CDC site where some adverse effects observed are outside the norm (albeit in small quantities).  I'm not expecting perfection, but it just all feels very incomplete imo.

I'm vaccinated.  I'm not looking to confirm a belief as much as inform my understanding.  It appears this is frowned upon in the PSF, usually when we talk about data and studies and how they are piling up I say something like I'd like to see what I outlined above and then we revert to "trust the experts". 

Not really looking to start an argument, but if any of ya'll have a real side by side like described above would love to see.  Please don't link to something with incomplete data, I've seen it.

 
I'd really like to see a side by side of vaccine outcomes vs covid outcomes by age and comorbidity.  Groupings of minor, serious, very serious, death.

What I personally can't reconcile is the vaers information where the standard blurb I see on the CDC website is that "just because these happened doesn't mean it was from the vaccine".  Thats cool, I get it, but they are not saying they didn't happen because of the vaccine either which would be the proper way to answer the question in the affirmative.  In some instances I've seen data on the CDC site where some adverse effects observed are outside the norm (albeit in small quantities).  I'm not expecting perfection, but it just all feels very incomplete imo.

I'm vaccinated.  I'm not looking to confirm a belief as much as inform my understanding.  It appears this is frowned upon in the PSF, usually when we talk about data and studies and how they are piling up I say something like I'd like to see what I outlined above and then we revert to "trust the experts". 

Not really looking to start an argument, but if any of ya'll have a real side by side like described above would love to see.  Please don't link to something with incomplete data, I've seen it.
I'm not really sure what you're saying here.  I am aware of 3-4 deaths traced back directly to the vaccine taken.  To the bold, the CDC isn't going to say death did (or didn't) occur because of vaccine unless they can show that for certain.  That answer seems wholly appropriate to me.  VAERS doesn't come close to addressing the popular problems in terms of causation vs correlation.  There are a TON of people who jump on the causation train with no meaningful scientific reason to do so.  

 
I'm not really sure what you're saying here.  I am aware of 3-4 deaths traced back directly to the vaccine taken.  To the bold, the CDC isn't going to say death did (or didn't) occur because of vaccine unless they can show that for certain.  That answer seems wholly appropriate to me.  VAERS doesn't come close to addressing the popular problems in terms of causation vs correlation.  There are a TON of people who jump on the causation train with no meaningful scientific reason to do so.  
Thanks Commish.

Yes I don't expect the CDC to say the vaccine caused a VAER unless they can show that for certain.  What I don't understand is the lack of challenging or acceptance of the inverse, that the CDC can't say the vaccine didn't cause the VAER either.  So VAERs seems to be tossed out as datapoints worth examining based on part 1 of the above.

Lacking a case by case examination of the 14,000 VAERS, which I understand is a hurdle,  what would seem to be a very reasonable comparison is the VAERS data compared to some normal distribution of adverse events without vaccination and plainly see how they stack up and if any statistical significance.  Maybe this exists and I haven't seen it.  Maybe it exists but its in the CDC mainframe and can't be illustrated in a way my feeble mind can understand.  Maybe it can't be done, I'm open to that but I'd be interested why.

 
What I don't understand is the lack of challenging or acceptance of the inverse, that the CDC can't say the vaccine didn't cause the VAER either.  So VAERs seems to be tossed out as datapoints worth examining based on part 1 of the above.
I'll just offer this up as a different perspective.  I'd likely agree with you 100% if our societal climate was different than what it is right now.  That's to say, I don't think many of the VAERs data points are worth examining.  If you take some time to look around you'll see some really absurd entries.  That's not to say ALL of them are in that category, but there is definitely some triage that would be required prior to investigating and there is absolutely NO restriction to what people throw into it.  It's only as good as the data being put in, and right now, it's not very good.  

 
I'll just offer this up as a different perspective.  I'd likely agree with you 100% if our societal climate was different than what it is right now.  That's to say, I don't think many of the VAERs data points are worth examining.  If you take some time to look around you'll see some really absurd entries.  That's not to say ALL of them are in that category, but there is definitely some triage that would be required prior to investigating and there is absolutely NO restriction to what people throw into it.  It's only as good as the data being put in, and right now, it's not very good.  
Yes, agree with that.  And I know that there are lots of different people that frankly lets just say are "too belligerent" in terms of looking for things that aren't there or running with half facts.  And I think that pervades some of the perspectives of people on the opposite side. 

Just kind of bugs me when folks run around like this is settled case law when there are some really big unknowns (like dismissing the VAERS as next to unusable).

 
Yes, agree with that.  And I know that there are lots of different people that frankly lets just say are "too belligerent" in terms of looking for things that aren't there or running with half facts.  And I think that pervades some of the perspectives of people on the opposite side. 

Just kind of bugs me when folks run around like this is settled case law when there are some really big unknowns (like dismissing the VAERS as next to unusable).
Have you explored the VAERs system by any chance?  I knew nothing about it until the flu stuff came up a few years ago during the Obama years.  I'm willing to bet 99% of the people on this forum had never heard of it until COVID.  It's amazing how much spam like material is in there now compared to during the last flu outbreak.  It's not unusable, but it's REALLY hard to use at the moment.  That's not dismissing the concept and need for it's existence, but it's ONLY as good as the data being put into it.  There's no way getting around that.

 
Have you explored the VAERs system by any chance?  I knew nothing about it until the flu stuff came up a few years ago during the Obama years.  I'm willing to bet 99% of the people on this forum had never heard of it until COVID.  It's amazing how much spam like material is in there now compared to during the last flu outbreak.  It's not unusable, but it's REALLY hard to use at the moment.  That's not dismissing the concept and need for it's existence, but it's ONLY as good as the data being put into it.  There's no way getting around that.
I know, it simultaneously makes sense and is kind of crazy.  Its akin to having a rape hotline and saying that its not that you can't use the calls coming into the hotline but that there are so many prank calls and abuse of the line that we can't do much with it right now.  Its like...ugh

 

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