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Can We Civilly Discuss Thoughts On Vaccination? A Poll. (1 Viewer)

Where would you land among these descriptions?

  • Vaccinated and no regret

    Votes: 292 82.5%

  • Vaccinated but some regret

    Votes: 18 5.1%

  • Not Vaccinated and don't plan to

    Votes: 32 9.0%

  • Not Vaccinated but considering it

    Votes: 12 3.4%
  • Total voters
    354
jobarules said:
https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/vaccine-hesitant-how-can-you-help?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo4ODU0NzMzLCJwb3N0X2lkIjozOTAzMTU5OCwiXyI6Ii9uaG9hIiwiaWF0IjoxNjI2OTYwNDQ5LCJleHAiOjE2MjY5NjQwNDksImlzcyI6InB1Yi0yODEyMTkiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.B9LRs3PL0HrDBBjArNJt7gJXOOPfCNIpXfmkh4JUGFo
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Did a little more research into this.  Doesn't look like minorities "don't want" the vaccine.  Seems like they're more in a "wait and see" mode. 

www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/unvaccinated-americans-whiter-more-republican-vaccinated

This is as opposed to majority Republicans not wanting it.  Good news is as time goes on, more and more who "don't believe" are coming around to believing as they find out more about the disinformation being put out by some of the leaders (and even some of the Republican leaders are coming around and admitting it helps too now.) 

 
Prinefan said:
I wasn't aware that it's been a proven fact that minorities don't want the vaccine.  Please cite your source.  
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God please.   Turn off MSNBC for a half hour.  If you're not aware minorities, especially blacks, are resistant to getting the vaccine,then you're either completely brainwashed by your media or just not paying attention

 
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Prinefan said:
Did a little more research into this.  Doesn't look like minorities "don't want" the vaccine.  Seems like they're more in a "wait and see" mode. 

www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/unvaccinated-americans-whiter-more-republican-vaccinated

This is as opposed to majority Republicans not wanting it.  Good news is as time goes on, more and more who "don't believe" are coming around to believing as they find out more about the disinformation being put out by some of the leaders (and even some of the Republican leaders are coming around and admitting it helps too now.) 
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Oh for crying out loud.  Do whatever you can to keep the blame on the right.  So its ok I guess that blacks aren't vaccinated because their reasons are pure.  I suppose the spread of the disease is ok in this case. 

If it wasn't for those darn Republicans, again.  Man between those super spreader events that were not BLM related to this now.   I guess covid would be a done deal. 

Sometimes this stuff is a literal riot to read.

 
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supermike80 said:
God please.   Turn off MSNBC for a half hour.  If you're not aware minorities, especially blacks, are resistant to getting the vaccine,then you're either completely brainwashed by your media or just not paying attention
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The mental gymnastics on this one is amazing.  The 20% never vaxxers were never going to get the vaccine anyway.  The percentage of white people vaccinated matches what it should.  It's clearly the minorities they need to convince to get to the 70% or 80% they want.  There is zero argument about it, these are published numbers.  

 
tonydead said:
The mental gymnastics on this one is amazing.  The 20% never vaxxers were never going to get the vaccine anyway.  The percentage of white people vaccinated matches what it should.  It's clearly the minorities they need to convince to get to the 70% or 80% they want.  There is zero argument about it, these are published numbers.  
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Wait wait it gets better!!!   The black population, which is over 90% democrat, is listening to the republican disinformation campaign, even though they never listen to the republicans at other times.  But they are in THIS case, cause after all, the republicans are SOOOO evil!

 
As much as we might want to put people into red and blue boxes, I think the anti tax thing is across the political spectrum.  

But it drives me a little nuts the "There is a 98% chance you'll survive Covid crowd" when there is a 99.9998% chance that you'll have no issues with the vaccine, and they are choosing the 2% chance of death and they think they are making a point......

 
Guido Merkins said:
As much as we might want to put people into red and blue boxes, I think the anti tax thing is across the political spectrum.  

But it drives me a little nuts the "There is a 98% chance you'll survive Covid crowd" when there is a 99.9998% chance that you'll have no issues with the vaccine, and they are choosing the 2% chance of death and they think they are making a point......
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I think you're wrong.  There is no doubt that minorities are getting vaccinated at a lower rate, but there can also be no doubt that the anti vax thing is not spread out even close to equally across the political spectrum.

 
Chaz McNulty said:
I think you're wrong.  There is no doubt that minorities are getting vaccinated at a lower rate, but there can also be no doubt that the anti vax thing is not spread out even close to equally across the political spectrum.
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The problem is lumping everyone into one anti-vax group because there are several different groups.

The traditional anti-vax are people who don’t believe in vaccinations. They strongly believe vaccines cause autism and other diseases. They often highly into holistic and alternative treatments. This group goes across political boundaries and if anything is highly ‘blue’.

Then you have the people who have no problem getting their kids vaccinated but never get the flu vaccine because they’re not worried about it. That’s pretty even on both sides too.

Now you have the new group that is refusing vaccines based on political reasons. That’s all red but that’s mainly because blue is in charge now.

A final group are the people who distrust the establishment, don’t have access proper information to counteract the misinformation or live in communities where vaccinations aren’t typical.

 
dawgtrails said:
This seems odd. Why would we want to get a vaccine that causes cancer?
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I agree...Are you sure the covid vaccine doesn't?  If you know this, please provide proof--because there are quite a few people who are not sure the vaccine won't cause something bad down the road. 

It was a counter to both your silly questions about the 20% and how you cant understand why everyone wouldn't get the vaccine that saves lives.

 
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supermike80 said:
I agree...Are you sure the covid vaccine doesn't?  If you know this, please provide proof--because there are quite a few people who are not sure the vaccine won't cause something bad down the road. 

It was a counter to both your silly questions about the 20% and how you cant understand why everyone wouldn't get the vaccine that saves lives.
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I am still confused. I want us to do better. I want people who have not gotten the vaccine, because they believe it has a microchip or causes cancer, to see the light and get the vaccine. I would hope we all wouldn't settle and just say "well, 20% of people are too dumb to figure this out, so let's just let them be".

 
dawgtrails said:
I am still confused. I want us to do better. I want people who have not gotten the vaccine, because they believe it has a microchip or causes cancer, to see the light and get the vaccine. I would hope we all wouldn't settle and just say "well, 20% of people are too dumb to figure this out, so let's just let them be".
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"See the light" is where you lose.  You have no evidence, none, that the vaccine does not cause problems later in life.  People are genuinely scared of that, and I respect that.   Especially when we are talking about a virus with a very low mortality rate.   

This thing got rushed to market quicker than any vaccine I know of, ever.  And that scares people.   So when you say "see the light" you are making assumptions based on  your own feelings, and that's where you go wrong.   

Sorry that's confusing to you.  

 
dawgtrails said:
I am still confused. I want us to do better. I want people who have not gotten the vaccine, because they believe it has a microchip or causes cancer, to see the light and get the vaccine. I would hope we all wouldn't settle and just say "well, 20% of people are too dumb to figure this out, so let's just let them be".
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Unfortunately, when you are the broadcaster of the message, you have NO control over the receiver.

We have no proof that the MMR vaccine doesn't destroy the world in 150 years so it's really irresponsible for us to ask people to take it.  

 
Biff84 said:
The problem is lumping everyone into one anti-vax group because there are several different groups.

The traditional anti-vax are people who don’t believe in vaccinations. They strongly believe vaccines cause autism and other diseases. They often highly into holistic and alternative treatments. This group goes across political boundaries and if anything is highly ‘blue’.

Then you have the people who have no problem getting their kids vaccinated but never get the flu vaccine because they’re not worried about it. That’s pretty even on both sides too.

Now you have the new group that is refusing vaccines based on political reasons. That’s all red but that’s mainly because blue is in charge now.

A final group are the people who distrust the establishment, don’t have access proper information to counteract the misinformation or live in communities where vaccinations aren’t typical.
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On one hand, you're right. But on the other, I'm not sure it matters. I usually scoff at the binary nature our society approaches nuanced subjects, but I think this is one of the few cases in which it is a binary issue. 

 
Prinefan said:
Did a little more research into this.  Doesn't look like minorities "don't want" the vaccine.  Seems like they're more in a "wait and see" mode. 

www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/unvaccinated-americans-whiter-more-republican-vaccinated

This is as opposed to majority Republicans not wanting it.  Good news is as time goes on, more and more who "don't believe" are coming around to believing as they find out more about the disinformation being put out by some of the leaders (and even some of the Republican leaders are coming around and admitting it helps too now.) 
Click to expand...
I don’t think posts like these do us any good - this just politicizes the pandemic and vaccine even more.  I think there’s almost no one who is getting or not getting the vaccine strictly because of party affiliation - they have their reasons and we need to understand what those are and combat them with information.  It’s undeniable that black Americans are not getting the vaccine at the same rate as white Americans.

FTR, I’ve said on numerous occasions that Obama and Trump should both be doing PSAs daily to get folks to take the vaccine.  

 
I acknowledge that there is a political resistance to this, why I don't know...It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

However that doesn't mean that this is the only issue to cover.   Minorities, people scared of side effects, those should be included in this.  In my opinion.

What I see in this thread is 99.9% of the "blame" for the low vaccination rates being laid squarely on the ground in front of the right, and I don't feel that's correct.  

 
Here is Louisiana, the Governor is putting some mandates back.

If only there were something we could all do to prevent the spread......

 
supermike80 said:
This thing got rushed to market quicker than any vaccine I know of, ever. 
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We should combine the time to market with the time since it came to market.  I mean we’ve got millions of test subjects walking around for all these months that’s way more testing than anything ever gets.

 
supermike80 said:
"See the light" is where you lose.  You have no evidence, none, that the vaccine does not cause problems later in life.  People are genuinely scared of that, and I respect that.   Especially when we are talking about a virus with a very low mortality rate.   

This thing got rushed to market quicker than any vaccine I know of, ever.  And that scares people.   So when you say "see the light" you are making assumptions based on  your own feelings, and that's where you go wrong.   

Sorry that's confusing to you.  
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Dude, we've been on the same side of arguments a lot.  But this aint it.  

1.  You keep throwing out these what if's.  What if it causes cancer?  What if it causes long term problems?  You yourself aren't even suggesting it does.  Just...what if.  I don't need what if's for COVID.  People get permanent lung damage.  People get heart inflammation.  People have strokes and long-term neurological issues.  How is that for long term problems?

So you're concerned that the vaccine MIGHT cause bad things--while we know the disease DOES cause bad things.  

2. This whole rushed to Market thing.  Research for this vaccine started decades ago.  They've been working on mRNA vax technology since SARS.  They did trials.  And now we've had 162 million Americans vaccinated.  What's an appropriate study to say they're safe?  200 million?  262 million?  

I'm just kind of flabbergasted to keep reading how these things are rushed and not studied when over 100 million in the United States alone have had the vaccines.

You said you've had yours.  Awesome.  Tell everyone else that 162 million have had theirs and the death toll and complications are nowhere near that of COVID-19 infection.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
We should combine the time to market with the time since it came to market.  I mean we’ve got millions of test subjects walking around for all these months that’s way more testing than anything ever gets.
Click to expand...
But what if we find out 20 years from now the vaccine causes Neurological problems?  Oh, wait. COVID actually does that.  

What if the vaccine caused permanent lung damage?  Oh, no that's covid too.  

It's a little perplexing to me that we're drafting hypotheticals about the cure while we know the disease is absolutely terrible.  

 
jm192 said:
But what if we find out 20 years from now the vaccine causes Neurological problems?  Oh, wait. COVID actually does that.  

What if the vaccine caused permanent lung damage?  Oh, no that's covid too.  

It's a little perplexing to me that we're drafting hypotheticals about the cure while we know the disease is absolutely terrible.  
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I was only responding to the “it was rushed” argument.  Seems to me that argument gets worse every day.  Even if the vaccines were inadequately tested when originally released, it’s like eight months later now and there’s plenty of evidence and study in that time.

 
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I was only responding to the “it was rushed” argument.  Seems to me that argument gets worse every day.  Even if the vaccines were inadequately tested when originally released, it’s like eight months later now and there’s plenty of evidence and study in that time.
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Sorry man, I 100% agree with everything you posted.  I was just beating others to the retort of "what if there are long term side effects, I'd rather risk COVID."

I posted in the other thread:  We've had 162 million vaccinated.  We've had 34 million in the US get COVID.  One arm of that has 600K dead.  But "What if the vaccine causes long term things we don't know about."  It very likely doesn't, but who cares--beats dead.  

 
jm192 said:
But what if we find out 20 years from now the vaccine causes Neurological problems?  Oh, wait. COVID actually does that.  

What if the vaccine caused permanent lung damage?  Oh, no that's covid too.  

It's a little perplexing to me that we're drafting hypotheticals about the cure while we know the disease is absolutely terrible.  
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Yep. I blame it on a poor understanding of probabilities/relative risk.

Not really. People are just acting up.

 
Kind of surprises me to hear this from Gov Ivey from Alabama but I certainly agree.

"Folks are supposed to have common sense. But it’s time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the vaccinated folks," Ivey said". It’s the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down. I’ve done all I know how to do. I can encourage you to do something but I can’t make you take care of yourself," Ivey said.

 
supermike80 said:
I acknowledge that there is a political resistance to this, why I don't know...It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

However that doesn't mean that this is the only issue to cover.   Minorities, people scared of side effects, those should be included in this.  In my opinion.

What I see in this thread is 99.9% of the "blame" for the low vaccination rates being laid squarely on the ground in front of the right, and I don't feel that's correct.  
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I haven't been following this thread very closely, but speaking more generally, I agree with you (Look! Civil discussion!) Surveys have pretty clearly shown that the people who have not yet gotten vaxxed can be put in a few different buckets. There are the hard-core anti-vaxxers. There are the "wait-and-see"-ers. There are people who can't get time off from work to get the shot and/or deal with any side effects. There are illegal immigrants who worry they'll get picked up by ICE when they go to get their shot. There are probably some people who legit have no idea where to go and what to do. (I also suspect there are a bunch of people who span multiple categories. They're young and healthy and they don't have a lot of time and they've also heard some things that scare them and it all adds up to them not bothering to do it yet.)

As someone who wants to see as many people as possible get vaccinated, I want to understand all those people and figure out what it will take to convince them. I mean, if you think it contains a 5G chip from Bill Gates, you're probably not coming around on it, but everyone else is potentially persuadable, and we should address their concerns without judgment rather than lumping them in with the crazies and writing them off.

 
If AL and LA are being talked about as floating restriction mandates and condemning anti-vaccers.......that should tell you something about the political v. health aspects of COVID. 

 
Thunderlips said:
If AL and LA are being talked about as floating restriction mandates and condemning anti-vaccers.......that should tell you something about the political v. health aspects of COVID. 
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The governor here is on the record supporting vaccinations but is ardently opposed to restrictions, masking mandates, etc.  Her press secretary just recently said "Government can't force you to take care of yourself".  Her position is pretty clear.  Get the vaccine, but we aren't shutting back down.  When the cure to the issue is available but people aren't taking advantage of it, why waste time with temporary measures is the stance.  I actually do agree.  Everyone here has had time now to get the vaccine.  It's time to move on.  If you choose not to get it, that's your choice, but any unfavorable outcome is on you.

 
Shula-holic said:
The governor here is on the record supporting vaccinations but is ardently opposed to restrictions, masking mandates, etc.  Her press secretary just recently said "Government can't force you to take care of yourself".  Her position is pretty clear.  Get the vaccine, but we aren't shutting back down.  When the cure to the issue is available but people aren't taking advantage of it, why waste time with temporary measures is the stance.  I actually do agree.  Everyone here has had time now to get the vaccine.  It's time to move on.  If you choose not to get it, that's your choice, but any unfavorable outcome is on you.
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I don't particularly disagree.....although the idea of it mutating and being able to cicrumvent vaccinations or just becoming a more efficient killer of the unvaccinated is potentially a bit troubling and shortsighted of the unvaccinated; I think that's probably a bit more realistic than the idea of 30+ year later health concerns or Bill Gates being able to blow you up because you injected a microchip.

That being said, I'm going to hate to see the political landscape if this thing goes bad for the unvaccinated as all three primary demographic groups of unvaccinated (African Americans/Jenny MacCarthyites/Right Wing Fringers) are probably going to see and scream conspiracy theories out the wazhoo if they start dying and those who took the vaccine didn't.  

 
Shula-holic said:
The governor here is on the record supporting vaccinations but is ardently opposed to restrictions, masking mandates, etc.  Her press secretary just recently said "Government can't force you to take care of yourself".  Her position is pretty clear.  Get the vaccine, but we aren't shutting back down.  When the cure to the issue is available but people aren't taking advantage of it, why waste time with temporary measures is the stance.  I actually do agree.  Everyone here has had time now to get the vaccine.  It's time to move on.  If you choose not to get it, that's your choice, but any unfavorable outcome is on you.
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It seems to be going the way it has with cigarettes, motorcycle helmets, and eating at McDonalds daily. Some people just don't care about their own well being, or believe their personal freedoms outweigh their own well being.

I am vaccinated, and have no regrets.  I am thankful for scientists.  I am flummoxed by the anti-vax crowd.  I wish everyone would avail themselves of the vaccine, but I don't think people should be forcibly vaccinated.  That is a slippery slope of ethics I don't think we should cross.  Instead, a strong campaign of pro vaccine stances should be instituted.  

I am not a lawyer, but we as Americans enjoy freedom of speech.  However, we are not allowed to yell 'Fire!' in a crowded theater right?  Dare I suggest the anti-vax crowd is similar?  No?

 
Thunderlips said:
I don't particularly disagree.....although the idea of it mutating and being able to cicrumvent vaccinations or just becoming a more efficient killer of the unvaccinated is potentially a bit troubling and shortsighted of the unvaccinated; I think that's probably a bit more realistic than the idea of 30+ year later health concerns or Bill Gates being able to blow you up because you injected a microchip.

That being said, I'm going to hate to see the political landscape if this thing goes bad for the unvaccinated as all three primary demographic groups of unvaccinated (African Americans/Jenny MacCarthyites/Right Wing Fringers) are probably going to see and scream conspiracy theories out the wazhoo if they start dying and those who took the vaccine didn't.  
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It is troubling.  But some of the responses I see to friends who post on social media saying they got the vaccine is the reason I think it's just time to move on.  The conspiracy theories are already out there and in many cases I see of ardently conservative friends who post they have gotten the vaccine and encourage others to research for themselves, there's no realistic hope of changing many minds.

People are dug in deep on this issue.  I respect people's right to choose, even if I made a different choice.  I do agree that I feel their choice does open the risk to mutations and obviously the worst of this thing lasting longer.  I just don't see a reason to shutdown again though.  People aren't voluntarily going to change their mind and we aren't going to mandate it.  So what are the options?  To me it's move forward or try and continue on in this almost purgatory of rolling restrictions for the indefinite future.  As time goes on, I feel some will come around, others won't.  But we must go back to living our lives.

 
jm192 said:
But what if we find out 20 years from now the vaccine causes Neurological problems?  Oh, wait. COVID actually does that.  

What if the vaccine caused permanent lung damage?  Oh, no that's covid too.  

It's a little perplexing to me that we're drafting hypotheticals about the cure while we know the disease is absolutely terrible.  
Click to expand...
You should amend this to read "can" be absolutely terrible.  In most cases, it's not. And that we actually do have data to support 

 
supermike80 said:
You should amend this to read "can" be absolutely terrible.  In most cases, it's not. And that we actually do have data to support 
Click to expand...
You’re on this counter logic viscious cycle.

We shouldn’t worry about the virus because it’s rarely that bad.

But the vaccine—which isn’t as bad as the virus—and the things that do happen are even more rare—that is something to be feared.

 
jm192 said:
You’re on this counter logic viscious cycle.

We shouldn’t worry about the virus because it’s rarely that bad.

But the vaccine—which isn’t as bad as the virus—and the things that do happen are even more rare—that is something to be feared.
Click to expand...
We don't know enough about the vaccines yet

 
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